Tri-circle-D
<font color=peach>Throwing some love to TCD<br><fo
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2004
I don't recall ever seeing a photo of a cannon at Fort Wilderness. If you have such a photo, please share it!
TCD
Proof The Rumors Are True!!! TCD Relocation Plans!
- Thread starter WannaBeImagineer
- Start date
I don't recall ever seeing a photo of a cannon at Fort Wilderness. If you have such a photo, please share it!
TCD
twinklebug
Home is where the heart is.
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2005
The closest thing to a cannon at the Fort I can recall were small metal "guns" mounted up in the tree forts the playgrounds used to have. Sorry no pics of those either, but if they were there, it's quite possible a real cannon might have been around.
Tri-circle-D
<font color=peach>Throwing some love to TCD<br><fo
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2004
OK, for those of you who are still following along, I made a field inspection of the area of this rumored new project over the past weekend.
For the past year or so, survey stakes and flags have been a common sight around Fort Wilderness. But, up until now, nobody was quite sure what these were all about.
On Saturday, October 30, I spotted some new stakes along the north side of Vista Blvd. Here are some photos of them:
One of the stakes was near this paved cut-off from Vista Blvd.:
Inside Fort Wilderness, just past the group camping area, there is a similar looking gate:
This closed-off, unpaved right of way is adjacent to the road currently used by FW buses and vendors making deliveries to the Settlement area:
So, this new survey stake got me to wondering . . . Could WDW be contemplating creating a new, separate gate for guests to use to access the new project on the old River Country site?
Here's an aerial view of the area:
On the photo above, the green star marks the location of the cut-off and gate on Vista Blvd. The yellow star marks where this right-of-way intersects with the right-of-way that terminates near the group camping area parking lot, and the red star marks the location of the rumored DVC project.
As I look at this, it doesn't seem to make much sense for there to be a new entrance constructed on Vista Blvd. Such an entrance would requires guests to drive quite a way to get to the new project. Clearly, entering through the Wilderness Lodge entry, and using the existing (currently castmember only) road to access the new project would be a better route.
Unfortunately, either of these routes would drastically increase vehicle traffic adjacent to the exercise path between FW and WL.
The only other obvious alternative would be to route all traffic through Fort Wilderness, using the route currently used by vendors and castmembers traveling to the Settlement. This would add a lot of traffic to the campground. So, that's not a good solution either.
When you get down to it, there isn't a good solution.
That's probably why there was never a parking lot near River Country, and guests were transported back by internal FW transportation. And, this new project will create a lot more traffic than RC ever did.
Not good.
On another note, I did some looking around for evidence of the cannon and ammo carrier.
As most of you know, the old wagon stood near the playground for years, until it was mysteriously moved in March of this year. You can see that there were little concrete footers used to keep the wheels from sinking:
So, wouldn't it stand to reason that there would be similar support somewhere in the area where the cannon and ammo carrier stood?
I never noticed this concrete square before:
It looks like this might have been put there to support something.
Of course, this is where the big Christmas tree goes every year.
Maybe it is there for that.
Otherwise, I did not see any "footprints" relating to a cannon or ammo carrier:
While looking around the area, I saw this new survey marker just inside the fenced in area of River Country:
Like a lot of you, I have also been wondering about the placement of the buildings on the leaked drawing. Why cram the buildings in so close to Fort Wilderness?
After looking around, it looks to me like the plan is to try to use Discovery Island as a buffer between this project and the Contemporary Resort. Remember, you could see the Contemporary Resort clearly from River Country. Apparently, the Imagineers of old did not have a problem with folks in River Country, which was supposed to be set in pre-centennial America, from seeing the modern Contemporary Resort. But, things have clearly progressed since then. The Wilderness Lodge is oriented so that the main view from the lobby faces at an angle away from the Contemporary Resort. The idea at WL is for guests to feel like they are in an old National Park hotel. They built it so that there are very few glimpses of the Contemporary Resort. Over at AKL, most guests cannot see anything other than the savannas from their rooms, again, to give the impression that they are in Africa, and not at a hotel in WDW.
So, I see why the proposed buildings seem to curve around the stand of cypress trees in Bay Lake, and the view is directed away from the Contemporary Resort.
But, the plans also seem to show a big central building which faces directly toward the Contemporary Resort.
This is a photo from the shore of Bay Lake, looking toward the Contemporary Resort from where the curved row of buildings appear on the drawing:
It's a cool view.
In fact, you can see the MK monorail entering the Grand Canyon concourse in the Contemporary Resort if you look carefully at the photo.
But, if the theme of this new resort is gong to be some type of Wilderness Theme, how are they going to deal with the Contemporary Resort and BLT sitting over there.
The view of the Contemporary is even more pronounced from where the main building will sit:
But, I do notice that the main building sits back a way from the water.
I wonder if they plan on leaving the big hill and rocks from River Country to serve as a buffer between the new building and the view of the Contemporary?
Of course, if the view is directed more to the north and east, then guests will be looking right at Discovery Island, and not the Contemporary:
After all of this, I am left with more questions than I answered.
Such as:
1. Where will guests of the new project park?
2. How will guests drive to and from the new project?
3. How will the dominant view of the Contemporary Resort from this parcel be addressed?; and
4. Why build buildings out into the water?
I have some more photos of the general area to share, and I will post them after everyone has a chance to review and discuss the photos from this post.
TCD
For the past year or so, survey stakes and flags have been a common sight around Fort Wilderness. But, up until now, nobody was quite sure what these were all about.
On Saturday, October 30, I spotted some new stakes along the north side of Vista Blvd. Here are some photos of them:
One of the stakes was near this paved cut-off from Vista Blvd.:
Inside Fort Wilderness, just past the group camping area, there is a similar looking gate:
This closed-off, unpaved right of way is adjacent to the road currently used by FW buses and vendors making deliveries to the Settlement area:
So, this new survey stake got me to wondering . . . Could WDW be contemplating creating a new, separate gate for guests to use to access the new project on the old River Country site?
Here's an aerial view of the area:
On the photo above, the green star marks the location of the cut-off and gate on Vista Blvd. The yellow star marks where this right-of-way intersects with the right-of-way that terminates near the group camping area parking lot, and the red star marks the location of the rumored DVC project.
As I look at this, it doesn't seem to make much sense for there to be a new entrance constructed on Vista Blvd. Such an entrance would requires guests to drive quite a way to get to the new project. Clearly, entering through the Wilderness Lodge entry, and using the existing (currently castmember only) road to access the new project would be a better route.
Unfortunately, either of these routes would drastically increase vehicle traffic adjacent to the exercise path between FW and WL.
The only other obvious alternative would be to route all traffic through Fort Wilderness, using the route currently used by vendors and castmembers traveling to the Settlement. This would add a lot of traffic to the campground. So, that's not a good solution either.
When you get down to it, there isn't a good solution.
That's probably why there was never a parking lot near River Country, and guests were transported back by internal FW transportation. And, this new project will create a lot more traffic than RC ever did.
Not good.
On another note, I did some looking around for evidence of the cannon and ammo carrier.
As most of you know, the old wagon stood near the playground for years, until it was mysteriously moved in March of this year. You can see that there were little concrete footers used to keep the wheels from sinking:
So, wouldn't it stand to reason that there would be similar support somewhere in the area where the cannon and ammo carrier stood?
I never noticed this concrete square before:
It looks like this might have been put there to support something.
Of course, this is where the big Christmas tree goes every year.
Maybe it is there for that.
Otherwise, I did not see any "footprints" relating to a cannon or ammo carrier:
While looking around the area, I saw this new survey marker just inside the fenced in area of River Country:
Like a lot of you, I have also been wondering about the placement of the buildings on the leaked drawing. Why cram the buildings in so close to Fort Wilderness?
After looking around, it looks to me like the plan is to try to use Discovery Island as a buffer between this project and the Contemporary Resort. Remember, you could see the Contemporary Resort clearly from River Country. Apparently, the Imagineers of old did not have a problem with folks in River Country, which was supposed to be set in pre-centennial America, from seeing the modern Contemporary Resort. But, things have clearly progressed since then. The Wilderness Lodge is oriented so that the main view from the lobby faces at an angle away from the Contemporary Resort. The idea at WL is for guests to feel like they are in an old National Park hotel. They built it so that there are very few glimpses of the Contemporary Resort. Over at AKL, most guests cannot see anything other than the savannas from their rooms, again, to give the impression that they are in Africa, and not at a hotel in WDW.
So, I see why the proposed buildings seem to curve around the stand of cypress trees in Bay Lake, and the view is directed away from the Contemporary Resort.
But, the plans also seem to show a big central building which faces directly toward the Contemporary Resort.
This is a photo from the shore of Bay Lake, looking toward the Contemporary Resort from where the curved row of buildings appear on the drawing:
It's a cool view.
In fact, you can see the MK monorail entering the Grand Canyon concourse in the Contemporary Resort if you look carefully at the photo.
But, if the theme of this new resort is gong to be some type of Wilderness Theme, how are they going to deal with the Contemporary Resort and BLT sitting over there.
The view of the Contemporary is even more pronounced from where the main building will sit:
But, I do notice that the main building sits back a way from the water.
I wonder if they plan on leaving the big hill and rocks from River Country to serve as a buffer between the new building and the view of the Contemporary?
Of course, if the view is directed more to the north and east, then guests will be looking right at Discovery Island, and not the Contemporary:
After all of this, I am left with more questions than I answered.
Such as:
1. Where will guests of the new project park?
2. How will guests drive to and from the new project?
3. How will the dominant view of the Contemporary Resort from this parcel be addressed?; and
4. Why build buildings out into the water?
I have some more photos of the general area to share, and I will post them after everyone has a chance to review and discuss the photos from this post.
TCD
big kahuna1
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2006
Well, personally I think the areas on both sides of this road/path leading to the possible new project area is perfect entrance and main road for additional campground loops all the way to the Lake. It will be called Fort Wilderness II or Fort Mickey.
WannaBeImagineer
I'm Tired of Earning My Ears
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2009
Great research as always TCD!
I have to agree with you the more I hear or find out about this new project the more questions I have, guess I'll just have to keep looking for new info and hope for the best.
bookwormde
<font color=darkorchid>Heading out now, another ad
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2008
#4
Fishing from your balcony, just joking (sort of)
Since with the ground conditions everything will be built on piling so why not.
bookwormde
Fishing from your balcony, just joking (sort of)
Since with the ground conditions everything will be built on piling so why not.
bookwormde
Capt. Barbosa
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2004
From Walt Dated World
http://waltdatedworld.bravepages.com/id220.htm
The November 20, 1977 episode of "The Wonderful World of Disney" One of the highlights included footage of the Mouseketeers at River Country and they sang this song.
River Country. Big River Country.
It's a hoot. It's a holler! It's a water jamboree!
River Country. Big River Country.
If you're hot around the collar it's the cool place to be.
River Country. Big River Country.
Let 'er rip. What a drip! It's a dandy. It's a beaut.
River Country. Big River Country.
You can shed your cares over there, but not your bathing suit.
You can slip.
You can slide.
You can zip.
You can dive.
In River Country everyone's a friend.
You can swing from a limb.
You can sink.
You can swim.
It's a day you'll remember when you're freezin' in December.
River Country. Big River Country.
There's a lot about it, to brighten up your soul.
River Country. Big River Country.
Come and join us for a visit to the ol' swimmin' hole.
http://waltdatedworld.bravepages.com/id220.htm
The November 20, 1977 episode of "The Wonderful World of Disney" One of the highlights included footage of the Mouseketeers at River Country and they sang this song.
River Country. Big River Country.
It's a hoot. It's a holler! It's a water jamboree!
River Country. Big River Country.
If you're hot around the collar it's the cool place to be.
River Country. Big River Country.
Let 'er rip. What a drip! It's a dandy. It's a beaut.
River Country. Big River Country.
You can shed your cares over there, but not your bathing suit.
You can slip.
You can slide.
You can zip.
You can dive.
In River Country everyone's a friend.
You can swing from a limb.
You can sink.
You can swim.
It's a day you'll remember when you're freezin' in December.
River Country. Big River Country.
There's a lot about it, to brighten up your soul.
River Country. Big River Country.
Come and join us for a visit to the ol' swimmin' hole.
Capt. Barbosa
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2004
Not sure this has been posted but I saw this on Twitter this a.m.
Interesting piece on page two of this pdf doesnt say what time period of the California Coast this would be from but this project sounds more like it would be GF DVC
http://www.georgecooninc.com/file/web site george_projectsreduced(1).pdf
COMPLETION DATE:
Estimated 2012
SIZE:
Estimated 1,208 units
Thanks go to Tweeter RobonDisney
Interesting piece on page two of this pdf doesnt say what time period of the California Coast this would be from but this project sounds more like it would be GF DVC
http://www.georgecooninc.com/file/web site george_projectsreduced(1).pdf
COMPLETION DATE:
Estimated 2012
SIZE:
Estimated 1,208 units
Thanks go to Tweeter RobonDisney
Tri-circle-D
<font color=peach>Throwing some love to TCD<br><fo
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2004
You're right about all of the buildings probably being up on pilings anyway.
But, it just seems like it creates a lot of unnecessary construction and maintenance issues to build out into the water. On the other hand, it would create a unique building.
I can confirm that the cannon and the ammo cart stood exactly where shown on the drawings. I went thru our vacation videos, and found footage from November 1986 showing both.
I'll see if I can get some image captures and post them.
Please post some image captures if you can. I also received a PM from someone that may have located a photo of the cannon- so stay tuned for that.
Thanks for the link.
Very interesting.
But confusing.
What is H1?
I can't imagine a California themed resort sitting here along Bay Lake adjacent to Fort Wilderness, with all the cypress trees, Spanish Moss and such, and Pioneer Hall sitting nearby.
But, who knows?
Looking through the portfolio, I see that this group worked on some recent projects up in the Florida panhandle. I have seen some of their work. I like what they do. So, it's a good thing if they are the ones designing this project. I have faith that they will be respectful of the environment and natural landscape of this area.
TCD
stopher1
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2008
Thanks for the link.
Very interesting.
But confusing.
What is H1?
I can't imagine a California themed resort sitting here along Bay Lake adjacent to Fort Wilderness, with all the cypress trees, Spanish Moss and such, and Pioneer Hall sitting nearby.
But, who knows?
Looking through the portfolio, I see that this group worked on some recent projects up in the Florida panhandle. I have seen some of their work. I like what they do. So, it's a good thing if they are the ones designing this project. I have faith that they will be respectful of the environment and natural landscape of this area.
TCD
The portfolio itself is pretty interesting seeing what else they designed for WDW (Saratoga, Coronado Springs) plus some of the stuff over in Celebration.
Like you I can't imagine a CA themed resort there by the Fort. Having it along Bay Lake speaks to the beach-culture cities the portfolio mentions, but it would not fit in well between the Fort and the Lodge. Now if it were somehow themed to Gold Rush era California and the Sierra Nevada... then yeah, but not Southern California beach communities.
Perhaps that information has surfaced now to try and tamp down the interest of what will eventually go in there by the Fort area, and it'll go in closer to Blizzard Beach (or elsewhere as was previously rumored a few months back) ?
Just a thought.
Mickey'sApprentice
Shamelessly demand, it works bette
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2005
Aha!! The other DVC rumor has been with a second gate to Disney Hollywood Studios!! This would be close to Blizzard Beach.
IMHO, a California themed resort would fit well if adjacent to DHS.
DVC has had more than 1 resort in active sales at any one time, but they generally do not open them at the same time. IF the DHS resort opens in 2012, I wouldn't expect the Ft. Wilderness DVC to open before 2014.
vonpluto
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2000
I give you the cannon:
The caisson or limber (ammo carrier to you civilians
):
Bonus! The stockade play area:
All from the porch of Trails End, November 1986.
Regarding the California Coast resort:
H1 is probably Disney code used to confuse those nosy Disney internet geeks!
1208 units?
Larger than OKW or SSR. Slightly smaller than OKW & SSR combined.
This would be a huge resort!
The caisson or limber (ammo carrier to you civilians
):
Bonus! The stockade play area:
All from the porch of Trails End, November 1986.
Regarding the California Coast resort:
H1 is probably Disney code used to confuse those nosy Disney internet geeks!
1208 units?
Larger than OKW or SSR. Slightly smaller than OKW & SSR combined.
This would be a huge resort!
Thumper_ehhhhh
<font color=darkorchid>Better to have been tagged
- Joined
- May 2, 2006
Frank thanks for the pictures of the cannon. Happy to see someone found some.
Tri-circle-D
<font color=peach>Throwing some love to TCD<br><fo
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2004
I give you the cannon:
The caisson or limber (ammo carrier to you civilians
Bonus! The stockade play area:
All from the porch of Trails End, November 1986.
Regarding the California Coast resort:
H1 is probably Disney code used to confuse those nosy Disney internet geeks!
1208 units?
Larger than OKW or SSR. Slightly smaller than OKW & SSR combined.
This would be a huge resort!
Great job!
Thank you for taking the time to do the image captures and post them.
It's amazing that many folks do not remember the cannon or ammo carrier (to us civilians).
You also almost have a shot of the water wagon. But, a post blocked the shot.
I didn't think about how big 1208 units would be. This couldn't be shoved into this little corner of the Fort, could it? It must refer to some other project.
TCD
cindymouse6
"Remember, it all started with a Mouse!"
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2008
already taken down. what was it of?
vonpluto
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2000
Thumper_ehhhhh and TCD: you're quite welcome, glad to do it.
A couple of thoughts:
The Fort has approximately 1200 sites (between cabins and RV sites), so this would in some ways double the size of the resort. Packed in tight against Trails End/Pioneer Hall it seems like the Fort would be dramatically changed.
Also, consider the Fantasyland plans. Over this past summer internet scuttlebutt said that they were outdated even by the time they were "leaked".
A couple of thoughts:
The Fort has approximately 1200 sites (between cabins and RV sites), so this would in some ways double the size of the resort. Packed in tight against Trails End/Pioneer Hall it seems like the Fort would be dramatically changed.
Also, consider the Fantasyland plans. Over this past summer internet scuttlebutt said that they were outdated even by the time they were "leaked".
TJM1976
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2008
3:35 into this video from the World of Disney show is Fort Wilderness. Watch the clip and it has a good shot of the cannon. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83NRuG3XV7A&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83NRuG3XV7A&feature=related
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