just back, ettiquete questions

[robinb]

I'm so amazed at the # of posts on here that say things like "Tough for you (elderly/kids/etc)... you don't get my seat I need it just as much as you!" and "you want a seat... wait for another bus!"

YET - so many of these posters have siggy's with things like "Spread the pixie dust!" in their signature lines...

I suppose the pixie dust spreading only applies with it's being thrown in YOUR direction hunh?!

Hmm ... so what is the difference between the people you are criticizing and those people who get on a standing-room only bus and expect a heaping helping of "pixie dust" thrown in their direction by someone giving them or their kids a seat?

When I get on a standing room only bus, I expect to stand. I think the difference is that I have ridden buses and other public transportation for years while the OP admits they are from a small rural town.

 

[PIRATEGIRL007]

I noticed on our trip 5/21-5/30 more courteous behaviour than every before. I noticed on several bus trips back and forth to POR men and boys of all ages offering seats to women, elderly and those holding children. I noticed people holding doors for each other, saying things like please and thank you, etc. We had people offer to let our child stand/sit in front of them at Wishes and parades. I had a stroller for a full week for the first time ever and although saw some agressive driving and had people step out in front of me often but I also got lots of sorry and excuse me's as well. We also didn't have anyone all week long try to cut line in front of us (well except for the adults at SWW in the roaming charecter lines). I saw more positive courteous civil behaviour this trip than ever before and this was the 2nd most crowded time we had ever been in the parks (one July trip previous). Maybe its about perspective and what you are on the lookout for.

We only saw a 2 displays of rude behaviour: a women cutting line and pushing her way onto a full bus but she paid for it later when her baby potty'd all over her on the way to MK and a women yelling at a CM b/c her son couldn't get into Jedi Training but other than that it was all rainbows and butterflies all week.

 

[Rainwater]

Could a case not be made, that if you are healthy enough to walk the parks all day, you should be able to stand on the bus for 10 to 15 minutes.

This would not include people with health problems.

 

[disneyfan2kids]

Hmm ... so what is the difference between the people you are criticizing and those people who get on a standing-room only bus and expect a heaping helping of "pixie dust" thrown in their direction by someone giving them or their kids a seat?

When I get on a standing room only bus, I expect to stand. I think the difference is that I have ridden buses and other public transportation for years while the OP admits they are from a small rural town.

I don't see many posters here saying they "expect" anything? I see 2 schools of thought:

1.) First school of thought - It's polite/proper/gentlemanly/courteous/chivalrous (insert word here) to offer your seat to others.
2.) Second school of thought - My comfort comes before anyone elses.

Again - My family subscribes to the first.

Off topic - I'm simply amazed at the # of hidden disabilities for posters on here that (since they're not on ECV's) they can still walk the parks for HOURS daily - but the ten minute drive home they "need" a seat or else they risk further injury.

I have a close family member that is handicapped. There's no "nice" way to put this, but I'll say it any way... "swollen knee" doesn't really rank way up high on my "disability" list when you walked WDW for hours daily. Spend a day with a stroke survivor or a parapalegic...and then see if you still consider your swelling or tendonitis "disabled."

I'm out...

 

[slipangle]

first instance - i agree with you. but, don't worry about so much about what others think. just be polite as you were and enjoy your time.

second - bus ride - you need to adjust your expectations. everyone's tired and hot, etc. nothing you said indicated to me that anyone in your party should expect some type of priority with regard to seating. someone elderly, or someone clearly with an issue that makes it very difficult is a different matter. people shouldn't complain about not being catered to just because they have children with them... that's the whole point. yep i've got em too and we stand or sit and enjoy the ride (though not necessarily the bus ride).

 

[clomahony]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents to this topic as I bring my 2 children to the parks by myself annually.

#1. I would just ignore the group on the planters. Your family were polite and asked if they were holding the spaces in front of them prior to sitting down and I would assume since the ropes had not even been put up yet, it was well in advance of the parade. Saddly, common politeness is sometimes missing in the "happiest place on earth".

#2. When I went to the parks with my kids, we would always try to get into an empty bus even if it meant waiting for the next bus but this was not always possible. I traveled with a double stroller, a full backpack and a 5 year old and a 3 year old.

One time when we were traveling to Downtown Disney, we ended up having to take a full bus and I had to try and balance the double stroller on one leg and hold my daughter and try to hold on. Needless to say the stroller kept falling but no one offered any help in any way. However, I do have to say that many times, people offered to help me carry off the stroller or help and to this day it almost makes me tear up with joy and gratitude so for all those who don't have kids or have older kids just know that those of us you help even in the smallest of ways - we are truly thankful and would really make our day.

 

[Ava]

many parents go to disney with young kids...dont expect special treatment for kids over baby age.
Depending upon my mood and tired level I may give my seat to your kids. If you are the parents holding a baby and a stroller and trying to stand, i can guarantee I will give you my seat
If you are much older or appear handicapped in some fashion, I can guarantee I will give you my seat
My children would also scoot or move in some fashion so the above folks can sit

Ditto this. Maybe it's just because I live in a place where most people use public transportation on a daily basis, but I think able-bodied children are no more entitled to a seat than able-bodied adults. I feel like if the child is old enough to walk onto the bus or train by themselves (i.e. not being carried or riding in a stroller) they are old enough to stand. I will give up my seat to a parent holding a baby/toddler, a pregnant woman, the elderly and the disabled. I know most children who visit WDW are not used to riding buses, but then it's up to the parents to take care of their own child's needs. If your children aren't capable of standing safely on the buses, either wait for a bus with empty seats or rent a car.

I also highly recommend a baby carrier if you'll be riding the buses with an infant or toddler. Baby is safe & adult is hands-free so they can hold on and hold bags/stroller. If we know we'll be riding a bus with our 13-month-old, we always use her Ergo carrier.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Here is what I don't understand. If you need a seat, and it isn't offered to you, why don't you ask?

 

[bakers3]

Just returned from an 11 night trip and the buses were really crowded. As I have several issues with my feet including an entrapped nerve in one, walking the parks all day ends up with me in extreme pain and one extremely swollen tingling foot. At the start of a day we would often choose to stand but at the end of a day we always waited for a new bus so we could sit.

One night my 13 yo DD and I were both extremely tired and were sitting down in seats we had waited an extra bus for when a woman carrying a sleeping toddler ended up standing in front of us. Before the situation had even processed in my mind, my daughter jumped up and told her she could sit with her child. I know my DD was exhausted and longing to sit..she had stood with me waiting for a bus we could sit on but when I told her later how proud I was that she was so thoughtful, she just looked at me and said "but mom, that was the right thing to do....she shouldn't have to stand while holding a baby" Granted, she could have waited for another bus too but I was a very proud mom that night and I know that my DD felt good about herself afterward.

 

[KellyNY]

I don't see many posters here saying they "expect" anything? I see 2 schools of thought:

1.) First school of thought - It's polite/proper/gentlemanly/courteous/chivalrous (insert word here) to offer your seat to others.
2.) Second school of thought - My comfort comes before anyone elses.

Again - My family subscribes to the first.

Off topic - I'm simply amazed at the # of hidden disabilities for posters on here that (since they're not on ECV's) they can still walk the parks for HOURS daily - but the ten minute drive home they "need" a seat or else they risk further injury.

I have a close family member that is handicapped. There's no "nice" way to put this, but I'll say it any way... "swollen knee" doesn't really rank way up high on my "disability" list when you walked WDW for hours daily. Spend a day with a stroke survivor or a parapalegic...and then see if you still consider your swelling or tendonitis "disabled."

I'm out...

You can speak only for your family, you do not know anyones situation to judge # of hidden disabilities or judge those who do not offer seats. I did not see anyone to say "my confort comes first", even so there is nothing wrong with that. People simly explain that there are ways to get seat and not expect anyone to give one if you feel you need one. How about let anyone to decide what is right for themselves and not to judge.

 

[Danibelle]

My DH and I have always taken our car to the parks and have never taken the busses. We usually need to sit (for medical reasons and especially at the end of the day) and don't want to risk a crowded bus. We had to stand (unfortunately) on the monorail once and we won't even do that again. We were totally squashed in on all sides. Meanwhile, young adults and older children filled the seats.

I would recommend either driving yourself or waiting for a seat if you are with a small child or need a seat for medical reasons (non-visible).

 

[Scurvy]

I don't see many posters here saying they "expect" anything? I see 2 schools of thought:

1.) First school of thought - It's polite/proper/gentlemanly/courteous/chivalrous (insert word here) to offer your seat to others.
2.) Second school of thought - My comfort comes before anyone elses.

Again - My family subscribes to the first.

Off topic - I'm simply amazed at the # of hidden disabilities for posters on here that (since they're not on ECV's) they can still walk the parks for HOURS daily - but the ten minute drive home they "need" a seat or else they risk further injury.

I have a close family member that is handicapped. There's no "nice" way to put this, but I'll say it any way... "swollen knee" doesn't really rank way up high on my "disability" list when you walked WDW for hours daily. Spend a day with a stroke survivor or a parapalegic...and then see if you still consider your swelling or tendonitis "disabled."

I'm out...

Funny, those two schools of thought both seem to paint people who don't give up their seat as not being polite/proper/gentlemanly/courteous/chivalrous and only being concerned with their own comfort. How about we add a third school of thought to that list?

3.) My comfort and safety (and the comfort and safety of my child) is my responsibility and no one else's. If I absolutely must have a seat on the bus, I'll do what I need to in order to ensure that I get one. If I have to wait for the next bus, I will. If I have to drive or take a cab, I'll do that. I won't assume I am more deserving of a seat than someone else. Their possible disablilities or preferences aren't my business.

I seriously doubt that anyone considers their swelling or tendonitis to be a disablility like paraplegia or the after effects of a stroke. That's ridiculous, and I haven't seen anyone else make such a comparison on this thread. But the fact is that swelling, tendonitis, poor balance, tiredness, shoulder or joint issues, illness, or personal preference (as well as a legion of other issues) are all perfectly valid reasons to refrain from giving up your seat. I have yet to see one valid reason for someone to insist on getting onto a standing room only bus when they absolutely must have a seat. There are other options available. Unless it's your first time on a crowded Disney bus and you simply are unaware of the lack of seating, there's no excuse for not taking responsibility for yourself. You should never assume others will take responsibilty for your comfort or safety. If I see someone crowd onto a standing room only bus and they don't appear to be blind, I'm going to assume that they entered the bus knowing they would have to stand and that they were okay with that. Because the other option is that they were assuming they would be given someone else's seat even though the other person was there first, and surely no one would be so entitled as to assume that.

 

[PatrickandLukesmom]

Being in a device that needs to be tied down for the safety of everyone on the bus 'jumps the occupant to the front of the line' for simple logistic reasons - it's easier for everyone to get the wheelchair/ecv on the bus and secured while the bus is empty.

As for the rest of your valid issue: Walt Disney World's official policy is, just as with attractions, the wheelchair/ecv Guest may be accompanied aboard the bus by up to five members of their party. All other members of their party must get in the regular line and board in turn.

Any Guest observing any different practice should note the bus number, driver's name if possible, time, location, bus destination - as much identifying information as possible - and notify Front Desk Management at your respective resorts. The only way officials will know there are legitimate problems is if Guests report the problems.

See? No jumping - just information

It should not jump anyone past the 100 or so other people who have been waiting for the bus. Once their family members reach the front of the line, they can be first to board the NEXT bus.... which is exactly what we did when we travelled with my mother in law on our 2008 trip to Disney. If she was tired, my husband left with her on a bus earlier in the night and I waited with my 2 kids and father in law (He acknowledged that it was far easier for my husband to assist her than him).

There was also one night when the lineup was so huge, we called a taxi back to the resort. It was a great change of pace and we actually considered an occasional taxi ride as an alternative to renting a vehicle for our next trip. We are opting for the rental though as we are hoping to make a trip over to Spring Training in Tampa this time.

 

[Danibelle]

In response to poster re: hidden disabilities. Yes, some of us can walk in the parks (taking time out to rest at our hotel and/or take a "coke break" and sit for awhile. When the end of the day comes, we don't want to risk falling on the bus or monorail (per physician). Please don't judge peoples "hidden disabilities.

I believe those with w/c or ECV's are boarded first on the bus.

 

[Disfan3]

I would just like to say that I have given up our front row spots that we waited for for an hour (Spectro) to a family who was obviously visiting for the first time ever...they were clueless!

remembering how confusing and crowded and not very well planned I was on our first visit, I always try to help people because seeing that look on EVERYONE'S faces for the first time, for me, is just as enjoyable as seeing Spectro for my 12th time since 2005.

I also want to say thanks to those who did give up a seat for me on the bus while I was holding our then 8 month old...and if there were no seats available and no one moved, that is ok too...my husband just took over and held the baby ( I am only 5'2 with heels and have a hard time reaching the bars on the bus and like the straps but while holding an infant, it gets tricky...

however...

can I say this...

I NEVER had our very large family leave a park at a peak time because of THIS. We always headed out of the park right before the crowds, often being the first in line to get on the bus after a long day just so that we did not encounter this situation that the OP is talking about. We always had a seat because I wanted one and therefore planned it that way If I ever felt like they were in a unsafe situation we would simply wait for the next bus or drive our car...it is all part of public transport... none of our older girls even like to sit on the busses and my husband would prefer to stand even when there is room to sit. I love the busses because we always find people to chat with and enjoy DIsney with...and that is all a part of being in the WORLD!

 

[disneyfan2kids]

I seriously doubt that anyone considers their swelling or tendonitis to be a disablility like paraplegia or the after effects of a stroke. That's ridiculous, and I haven't seen anyone else make such a comparison on this thread. But the fact is that swelling, tendonitis, poor balance, tiredness, shoulder or joint issues, illness, or personal preference (as well as a legion of other issues) are all perfectly valid reasons to refrain from giving up your seat. I have yet to see one valid reason for someone to insist on getting onto a standing room only bus when they absolutely must have a seat. There are other options available. Unless it's your first time on a crowded Disney bus and you simply are unaware of the lack of seating, there's no excuse for not taking responsibility for yourself. You should never assume others will take responsibilty for your comfort or safety. If I see someone crowd onto a standing room only bus and they don't appear to be blind, I'm going to assume that they entered the bus knowing they would have to stand and that they were okay with that. Because the other option is that they were assuming they would be given someone else's seat even though the other person was there first, and surely no one would be so entitled as to assume that.

We will have to agree to disagree on this...

 

[disneyfan2kids]

I know my DD was exhausted and longing to sit..she had stood with me waiting for a bus we could sit on but when I told her later how proud I was that she was so thoughtful, she just looked at me and said "but mom, that was the right thing to do....she shouldn't have to stand while holding a baby" Granted, she could have waited for another bus too but I was a very proud mom that night and I know that my DD felt good about herself afterward.

You must've been very proud!

 

[CathieArms]

One night my 13 yo DD and I were both extremely tired and were sitting down in seats we had waited an extra bus for when a woman carrying a sleeping toddler ended up standing in front of us. Before the situation had even processed in my mind, my daughter jumped up and told her she could sit with her child. I know my DD was exhausted and longing to sit..she had stood with me waiting for a bus we could sit on but when I told her later how proud I was that she was so thoughtful, she just looked at me and said "but mom, that was the right thing to do....she shouldn't have to stand while holding a baby" Granted, she could have waited for another bus too but I was a very proud mom that night and I know that my DD felt good about herself afterward.

Congratulations on doing a great job raising your daughter! You have every right to be a very proud mom!!!

At the end of the day, this is how I feel about this situation: Karma. It always comes back for you. If you're a kind person and try to be helpful to other people - when it makes sense to be helpful (i.e. if you're able-bodied and it'll make a significant improvement on the other person's situation) - then karma will come back for you in a positive way and your kindness will be returned many times over. But, if you're a selfish person who doesn't give a rip about your neighbor, then Karma will come back for you in the same way.

I wouldn't always offer my seat to another person, but I would almost always offer it to an older woman, an injured person, or to someone with a small child. I'd probably even offer it to someone who LOOKS more exhausted than I am at the end of the day. I'm exhausted at the end of the day, too, but I try to look at the situation as "who needs it more." If we're all exhausted, my exhaustion is just a little bit less than the woman (or man) standing there holding a sleeping child on a bus, or the older woman whose body may ache more from the unusual exercise level.

Oh, and I wanted to comment on SOG. OF COURSE there's a difference on the SOG bus. As someone who has been around the military my entire life, I know that one of the most important foundations of the military is RESPECT and CONSIDERATION for others.

 

[Momtomouselover]

A small child maybe say 6 or 7 and under cannot safely stand and hold on to the bus while in motion. Believe me we tried one day and with the short stops and quick starts my child was thrown about. Yes, in the most ideal situation and a smooth ride it may be possible but this wasn't our general experience on the buses. Even to the extreme that one day an adult man holding a stroller and standing was thrown into my sister who has a huge, severe bruise and softball size knot on her knee from it. It was a near miss accident but just imagine if it was a child standing and not an adult who caught himself.

I agree with the school of thought that if an able-bodied adult or older child is sitting on a bus and it is boarded by a young child, a parent holding a child or infant, or an elderly person in need of a seat you should stand and offer yours. If you are an adult or older child who was able to walk through a park all day long or even half a day then 10-15 mins more of standing on a bus will not kill you. It could harm a less-abled person though.

 

[robinb]

I don't see many posters here saying they "expect" anything? I see 2 schools of thought:

1.) First school of thought - It's polite/proper/gentlemanly/courteous/chivalrous (insert word here) to offer your seat to others.
2.) Second school of thought - My comfort comes before anyone elses.

Again - My family subscribes to the first.

The OP expected people to give his wife and kids seats and came here to complain about it.

I disagree with your two "schools of thought". The second school of thought isn't about whose comfort comes first. It's about waiting your turn for a resource. If someone wants/needs a seat they should wait for it. When all the resources are taken it is not logical to think that someone else is going to give theirs up.

FWIW, I think it's nice that you and your family offer your seats to random people. But I don't think it makes you better than people who don't give up their seats as it is common in big cities to not give your seat to others able-bodied people like the OP and his family.

Off topic - I'm simply amazed at the # of hidden disabilities for posters on here that (since they're not on ECV's) they can still walk the parks for HOURS daily - but the ten minute drive home they "need" a seat or else they risk further injury.

I have a close family member that is handicapped. There's no "nice" way to put this, but I'll say it any way... "swollen knee" doesn't really rank way up high on my "disability" list when you walked WDW for hours daily. Spend a day with a stroke survivor or a parapalegic...and then see if you still consider your swelling or tendonitis "disabled."

I'm out...

I don't buy that argument. There is always someone more disabled, always someone in more pain, always someone who has been though more than another person. You're right. To dismiss someone's disability/pain/discomfort because there is someone else who has it worse is NOT "nice" ... it is mean-spirited.