Help DIS Homeschoolers Help me convince my DH

[noodleknitter]

Continuing OT...my neighbor is working with a 3rd grade class (21 kids) that is almost entirely ADD or ADHD. She has 1 aide, and the parents are required to come in to help. By changing the structure and environment, they have removed several kids (who were having adverse reactions) from their meds and only recommended that one family look into them. This was all funded from a relatively small grant, and has been renewed for next year.

 

[noodleknitter]

School's can't take it upon themselves the medicate a child.

There's a long process that's required before a child can be medicated.

But many coerce families into medicating. And their paperwork is considered, oftentimes, more than the parent's or other care-givers.

 

[ducklite]

I'm not against homeschooling in some cases. In others it's a terrible idea.

There are some homeschoolers who are well prepared for the task. They are intelligent, educated, well-organized, patient, and have good motivation for their choice.

Other home schoolers son't have adequate education and/or patience, and in some cases choose home schooling for every reason but a good one.

On the Dis I've seen examples of both. I can think of one homeschooler who is extremely bright and has a teaching background. She homeschools as it's actually giving her children a better education.

There's another who can barely construct a sentence, let alone have a logical thought. She seems completely unaware of current events or anything in the world outside the little bubble she lives in. My guess is that she struggled to finish high school, and has no further education or training relevant to teaching. Her motivation for homeschooling seems to be so that they can travel to WDW during off peak times.

As with anything one persues in life, without the proper aptitude and training, you won't be successful. Unfortunately some homeschoolers aren't even bright enough to realize that they aren't bright enough, and that only does a disservice to their children.

Anne

PS--I didn't home school. I don't have the patience, and am smart enough to realize it. My sister has an advanced degree in a relevant field and is an experienced educator. I applaud her choice to homeschool, as she is well equipped to do so.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

There's another who can barely construct a sentence, let alone have a logical thought. She seems completely unaware of current events or anything in the world outside the little bubble she lives in. My guess is that she struggled to finish high school, and has no further education or training relevant to teaching. Her motivation for homeschooling seems to be so that they can travel to WDW during off peak times.

Did you PM her and ask her? I know I don't often post a resume of qualifications here at times b/c frankly it isn't anyone's business. And the big homeschool joke around here is getting to go to WDW at off peak times--most EVERY Homeschooler here posts about this).

I'm completely unaware of a lot of current events. I have the general idea of what is going on (some people in Iraq, a lot of our nation has trouble with the president and the Dixie Chicks have caused quite a stir)--but I couldn't articulate a complete thought to have a decent conversation about it so I choose not to (maybe the poster you have spoken of does this, I don't know). I don't like to sound like an idiot--so I follow the "headlines" can make a narrow opinion or two, but that is it.

Just because someone presents a certain way here--does not necessarily make it so in real life.

I am quite intelligient though and I have a college degree. (I know you weren't speaking about me).

And I type funny sometimes as this is an internet message board and not an English class.


Different states have different requirements and I don't agree that a college education is required to teach a child things. There are lots of things I don't know--and we will learn together. (I moved and went to 10 different schools so *gasp* there are things I haven't read that are high school English standards but due to school TFRs---they ended up being on different year lists and I would just miss them or left before it was covered).


OP--attend a homeschool convention if you have one available to you. That is what hubby did and that is what brought him on board. In fact--I figured I would never convince him of anything then one day he says we're going to this convention. They had some workshops for dads and badda bing badda boom--we are doing first grade next year!

And DD can read now (we are still finishing the phonics rules though as I don't want to *screw her up* or anything).

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Now who's being silly? Not all parents are qualified to teach advance subjects.

There's school of choice in Michigan. Perhaps you should check it out.

Wow--you really don't know about ALL the options out there do you.

FYI in Florida--when it comes to high school--IF IF IF I don't either a) feel like teaching a course or b) feel unqualified to teach a course...we have multiple options available:

including co-ops--finding another homeschooler who can teach the subject (Depending on what it is would affect my decision at the time as our co-op is expensive)

Dual enrollment--available to all high school students regardless of how they are schooled--they take a class for dual credit at the college level.

So if I can't teach Calculus (Did get a 5 on the AP exam hubby got a 4 (but he took the higher level Calc))---she takes it at community college.

There are countless curriculums and course work available by mail and internet that often come with teacher support.

So you see---there are options. But instead of trying to have a valid defendable opinion--you would rather assume that for those who cannot teach, then traditional school is the only option.

Have you tried researching the topic--has ANYONE so against the unqualified homeschooling researched the topic in detail? Checked out any catalogues, any state laws, any resources availalbe that are alternative to the classroom but get the job done?

Doubt it--or you would know that there are options available if a parent reaches a point at any time in their home education program that they feel uncomfortable teaching a subject due to lack of knowledge or just how complicated the subject matter is.

No--much easier just to blanket statement the unqualified with "Thou shall not teach" opinions.

 

[ducklite]

Did you PM her and ask her? I know I don't often post a resume of qualifications here at times b/c frankly it isn't anyone's business.

Like I said, she can barely write a logical sentence. In fact I don't think I've ever seen one of her posts that didn't have at least one sentence that made no sense. I'm not referring to spelling, typo's, poor punctuation, or even poor grammar. I think we are all guilty of that on the Dis at least a few times--I know I am and freely admit it. I'm referring to someone who simply makes no sense half the time and seems almost functionally illiterate.

How can you teach a concept if you don't comprehend it yourself and can't express yourself in a comprehendable manner? If educated and intelligent adults can't understand what she's attempting to express, how would you expect an eight year old to?

I'm not talking about someone who sees those off peak trips as a nice side perk of homeschooling when there are other legitimate motivations, rather someone whose entire motivation for homeschooling is off peak WDW trips. I take issue with that.

As I said, some people homeschool for the right reasons and are equipeed for it, and others do it for the wrong reasons and shouldn't. The latter are the ones who are doing a disservice to their children.

Anne

 

[noodleknitter]

Convention is a great idea! Didn't think of that one!
Just take a limited money supply!!!!!!! Or he will turn against it for a different reason!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Oh--and the only "qualifications" that need to be met are those defined by state law. Not the opinions of other parents. (And no I'm sorry an education degree is not required to teach your own children. Heck technically it isn't required to teach school children either. (my brother is a teacher--he will have to take mandated coursework, but doesn't not need an "education" degree. Of course he is a specialty teacher. But if an "education" degree were required--that would have to cover ALL teachers, shouldn't it?)

In my state--I have to write a letter, maintain a portfolio and submit annually on the anniversary of when the letter is submitted: A certified teacher review of the portfolio OR OR OR OR official test scores.

So to suggest that anyone in my state is "unqualified to teach" is silly. As long as they meet the above (for my state)---they are qualified (for my state). (and IF IF IF a review or test scores reveal deficits--there are some procedures....I haven't really looked into these as I don't plan for my child to have deficits just as someone in public school wouldn't plan for their child to have deficits either).

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I continue to post because of the flame-throwing going on against public schools.

Funny--you seem to be blasting homeschooling based on the couple of families that you know.


Weird, isn't it?

 

[noodleknitter]

Like I said, she can barely write a logical sentence. In fact I don't think I've ever seen one of her posts that didn't have at least one sentence that made no sense. I'm not referring to spelling, typo's, poor punctuation, or even poor grammar. I think we are all guilty of that on the Dis at least a few times--I know I am and freely admit it. I'm referring to someone who simply makes no sense half the time and seems almost functionally illiterate.

How can you teach a concept if you don't comprehend it yourself?

And I'm not talking about someone who sees those off peak trips as a nice side perk of homeschooling when there are other legitimate motivations, rather someone whose entire motivation for homeschooling is off peak WDW trips. I take issue with that.

Anne

I can't imagine goint through all of the work of homeschooling merely for a vacation! It isn't a cake walk!

The subject that neither my husband nor I feel competent to teach (physics) was taken at the college in town with a tutor. 21 people took the class 16 passed, including my son.

We also had a violin and fiddle teacher and a french tutor (an exchange student at the college). My daughter clepped out of 3 years of college french, and is studying next semester in France.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I still agree with her DH, that homeschooling may put her children at a disadvantage socially.

Unless a family chooses to isolate themselves from society..then that statement is nothing but invalid.

I know TONS of homeschooling families. There are no social disadvantages.

In fact my homeschool group even has a graduation (as does our state convention) and a prom and a yearbook.

(Usually the last line of defense I hear on the socialization topic).

 

[Karel]

So to suggest that anyone in my state is "unqualified to teach" is silly. As long as they meet the above (for my state)---they are qualified (for my state). (and IF IF IF a review or test scores reveal deficits--there are some procedures....I haven't really looked into these as I don't plan for my child to have deficits just as someone in public school wouldn't plan for their child to have deficits either).

I'm a little confused by that one. Nobody plans for their child not to have a deficit in any area, but sometimes it happens.

Also, I was talking to a friend about a teenager we both know who is the same as my son. J is home schooled and while my son is finishing traditional 9th grade, J is finishing 10th.

My problem is - why rush? Is there a prize to see who can finish high school first? I realize that homeschooled kids can move through material faster but is that important?

My son is living what I believe is an enriching high school life. It's not just about learning as much as you can as fast as you can.

Also, I've noticed that several people commented about their child taking college classes for both high school and college credit. So is that, say a 17 year old taking classes with a 19 year old? Arent' you worried about bad influences there? Partying, smoking etc.

Around here, a lot of people send their kids to private school for middle school because they don't want their 13 year old going to the same school as a 17 year old.

 

[noodleknitter]

So, it is either "people are pushing to hard" or "people are too dumb to teach." Good grief.

I've said all along that my children are exposed to a multitude of people. At 16 they wanted to take some classes at the college. So do about 1/6 of the High School students around here. It is an awesome chance to stretch the wings of an adolescent. Was I worried about "bad influences?" Not really. My kids have been raised to think for themselves rather than being peer led. They don't need to drink or use to get along in life.

Being ahead in school just allows a student to spend more time on their individual interests. There isn't any reason to hold a math wiz (or whatever) behind.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm a little confused by that one. Nobody plans for their child not to have a deficit in any area, but sometimes it happens.

Also, I was talking to a friend about a teenager we both know who is the same as my son. J is home schooled and while my son is finishing traditional 9th grade, J is finishing 10th.

My problem is - why rush? Is there a prize to see who can finish high school first? I realize that homeschooled kids can move through material faster but is that important?

My son is living what I believe is an enriching high school life. It's not just about learning as much as you can as fast as you can.

Also, I've noticed that several people commented about their child taking college classes for both high school and college credit. So is that, say a 17 year old taking classes with a 19 year old? Arent' you worried about bad influences there? Partying, smoking etc.

Around here, a lot of people send their kids to private school for middle school because they don't want their 13 year old going to the same school as a 17 year old.

The deficits I was speaking of was unrelated to DE but rather any deficits at anytime in their education. And yes i said that noone would expect them but they do happen. Thank you for reiterating my statement. They would be flagged and dealt with at the time they happen. I simply was saying that if deficits or notice--the county would intervene a little bit, but I'm not certain what they do (I think it is more auditing or something, not really sure).

You have combined two ideas that are unrelated.

Who said anything about rushing?

Our state OFFERS FREE coursework while you take your high school coursework. Why take Algebra twice? (as an example--many many more course offerings are available). Take it once and dual enroll.

It is no different for those in Private School or Public school here. The state encourages it as a way to offset college costs and promote the idea of going to college.

When I did dual enrollment I still took my coursework in high school as the CC wasn't logistically close enough to the school for this. Where we live now--the kids go to CC.

It isn't rushing--just another way to accomplish an education and we'd still encourage it if we sent them to "traditional" high school.

It has nothing to do with learning stuff as "fast" as you can. Rather--the logic is-why learn the same stuff twice? AP students can AP out of coursework. While more challenging, I like DE better b/c you get a GPA to go with it.

My college career was much easier with a few credits under my belt. I didn't have to load up my semesters--they could be a more relaxed FT schedule. Not all those who dual enroll necessarily finish college any more quickly.

And I didn't say I wanted my child to be a college graduate at 20 either. Not sure where you got that in my statement. Some students do get their 2-year degrees early and others do not.

In fact DE is just an OPTION if you feel unqualified to teach coursework for which any student in the state of Florida is elibigle to do in high school regardless of how they are schooled. That is all I said it was. I also had OTHER options listed.


And just like I would have rules for my childs social life as any parent does in relation to curfews, privileges, et cetera--not sure how that would change in "college" for my minor high school student. It isn't University, there are no "frat parties" and such--will there be exposure to something. Of course, a college campus won't be limited like a high school. And no I wouldn't worry about it.

I have so many reasons for homeschooling and I rarely post them. But I am not blind to see that my child will not be innoculated from the world just because I homeschool. Nor will anyone else's child be the epitome of socialization and acumen just b/c they went to a "real" school.

So the smoking and partying analogy doesn't go very far with me. Both grandmas smoke and we were in a doctor's office recently where they happen to have a picture of a healthy lung and a smoker's lung (As well as the rest of the anatomy). They asked about every single picture in that office--just the lung picture had disease and cancers and black lung on it. So they are learning from a very early age about the dangers of smoking and how yucky it is. If they end up smoking--they end up smoking...but it will not be under my roof and they will know how it will damage their bodies.

I learned in public school that smoking was yucky. My siblings and I (all public schooled) all through child hood would break moms cigarette pack every now and then. And when we were 18 we refused to purchase her cigarettes. Not ONE of us smokes.

Kids can learn anything and will absorb what they want. I don't like yucky things as my children don't either.

So I don't have too much worry that they won't be phased by the college kid smoking a cigarette. Unlike middle and high school--usually a college student isn't going to go--"but it is soooo cool". At least that didn't happen when I was in college.

 

[hsmamato2]

I don't know who this person is who can "barely string a legible sentence together"- but this is a board, not english class...
Lisalovespooh, you are right on with your posts...
I fully expect my kids to take community college courses when they're ready,no rush-here's a main difference between kids in a college setting,and the typical high school, the college courses are *chosen* and therefore attended with a purpose. The high school courses,the kids are there b/c they have to be,and they may or may not be interested in the class. Which creates a totally different atmosphere. Now, I don't disagree, some kids LOVE high school, some don't. But I was there,and I do remember the general chaos that was the undercurrent to all things,most of us would rather not have been there, most of the time. But we had to be, so there we were,fooling around..making our own entertainment... not such a bad thing, but not the best learning environment...
Which is why I prefer my kids just head straight on to the college when they feel ready for it. A lot of kids around here start taking some classes by about 14 or 15...
Let's talk about these supposed defecits that kids will have... who of us is an expert in all things? I went to school for the required time, and I was by no means an expert in all subjects b/c I sat and listened to all the subjects. Nope, I was like EVERYONE else here,and in the world, taking and using what felt important/relevant to me,and running with it!
This is what happens naturally, we all excel (or not) at certain things in life- to assume that b/c your kid goes through 12 years learning"all" subjects they're going to be wonderful in every one is unrealistic, the same goes for homeschoolers. The same for teachers! They're not *experts* in all subjects, most times not even the one they've chosen to teach, but it's (hopefully,but not always) their specialty,and they should be able to help kids understand the subject they're teaching...
I'm no expert at ,say, math, but I love the subject,and am learning new things daily. ( the speed of gravity is our newest diner table topic)My dh excels at math,naturally. I excel at "english class" type stuff,my dh,not so much. My kids are showing a huge propensity for both mathematics,and reading,writing,and all things creative. Do I assume that they must be experts In every subject? Of course not- . the reality is they'll be like every other person growing up, they'll take what they need,and use it to become a fully rounded person.
I don't know ONE person who seriously uses off season vacations as a reason to homeschool. That's absurd!(but it's a great perk )

 

[AllyCatTapia]

"Oh--and the only "qualifications" that need to be met are those defined by state law. Not the opinions of other parents. (And no I'm sorry an education degree is not required to teach your own children. Heck technically it isn't required to teach school children either. (my brother is a teacher--he will have to take mandated coursework, but doesn't not need an "education" degree. Of course he is a specialty teacher. But if an "education" degree were required--that would have to cover ALL teachers, shouldn't it?)"



This person is wrong. See NCLB. They're working on it.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Honestly I do use off season vacations in general as one of my reasons to homeschool.

Truth be told--I can't afford the high rates every where every summer--so on my looooong list of reasons...I do have off season vacationing on the list.

Not my exclusive reason--but one of the many good ones.

 

[AllyCatTapia]

"the college courses are *chosen"

also wrong, CC have a core curriculum that must be met before enrolling in other academic courses.


HMM, it scares me that , with so many facts wrong, these people are passing their ill knowledge onto their children.

 

[AllyCatTapia]

"who of us is an expert in all things"

Exactly, homeschoolers are not generally an expert in most things, except maybe Coming to The Lord etc etc , which is why when you send your child to a NORMAL school, they go to a vareity of teachers who ARE experts in their field.


Sorry, but the vast majority of homeschoolers are not qualified to teach their children. Hell, I wouldn't even let my son go to a DAYCARE without prinicpal with a masters degree in Chiel Developement. EDUCATION MATTERS.

 

[noodleknitter]

This person is wrong. See NCLB. They're working on it.

You don't really want to bring us NCLB, do you? It is the ultimate proof that the Public School System is a failure, in general. And It is absurd, to boot. There is no way a teacher with an integrated classroom can attain the objectives. It sets the teachers up for failure.