Help DIS Homeschoolers Help me convince my DH

[DiznEeyore]

I'm not sure you'd recognize it if you saw kids like this.

Because you know me SO well.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Okay- if anyone read my earlier posts you would know that I am on neither side of the fence here. I think every child is different and has different needs. Whatever you decide needs to work for your family. I do however find myself a bit miffed and somewhat annoyed by the HS posters. I have asked questions about HS because I was genuinely interested. The only responses any of you gave was to say that PS is basically barbaric, overrun with drugs, sex, gangs, ill behaved children, and poorly qualified teachers. I am afraid for you! I am sure that there are areas where there are huge problems like that and I know of a few but I can tell you that not all schools are like that. From what I have read here is seems that the HS's do have some sort of attitude with those who are PS's. I am sure that maybe you are just trying to get your point across but the way that you are doing it makes HSing seem like a cult. Yes I said it- a cult. I do get the impression that there are serious control issues for some. Now I am not saying HSing is a cult- I am just saying that some of you come across that way. When anyone asks a question it is answered somewhat obnoxiously. I do have experience with HS children so I am not whistling in the wind here. Oh- and I can tell you that not all parents are qualifeid no matter what materials are out there for them to learn. I have friends whose parents could never teach them. That is fact, even if Einstein himself where there for tutoring. So let's try to make this thread informative based on actual experiences and questions. There is no need to bash anyone if their choice if different than yours. We are all just trying to do what's best for OUR children. Flame away.

 

[Hannathy]

Thank you Mouse House Mama!

 

[FayeW]

My post was directed to the OP, and to the OP ONLY! I did not imply, nor attempt to imply, that any poster's specific child was odd or that ALL homeschooling parents used homeschooling to justify being SAHMs. The OP asked for opinions, and I gave her mine. If you don't like what I think about homeschooling, that's unfortuntate. At least I didn't sugar coat it or try to pretend that everybody the OP & her children will come in contact with will be supportive of her choice, should she choose to homeschool. I still agree with her DH, that homeschooling may put her children at a disadvantage socially.

I think the bigger question is why so many of you either HS or send your kids to private school. Why do you tolerate such a lousy public school system? Why are you not demanding reform?

 

[noodleknitter]

The only responses any of you gave was to say that PS is basically barbaric, overrun with drugs, sex, gangs, ill behaved children, and poorly qualified teachers. I am afraid for you! I am sure that there are areas where there are huge problems like that and I know of a few but I can tell you that not all schools are like that.

No one thinks their schools are like that. But as a school psychologist, that is what I encountered on a daily basis. We live in at city of about 20,000 that thinks it is Mayberry, RFD. A quaint historical city with painted lady homes. Our High School, and the expensive liberal arts college which is listed in the top 100 list, have a huge heroin problem. No one admits it. No one believes it, because there is such a denial issue. The same sex games that are going on in the "big city" are rampant in the Middle School, and a friend says they are now seeing them in the elementary school. Does anyone believe it? No, denial.

As for poorly qualified teachers, well, not eveyone graduates in the top of their class. Many just eek by. And they get the same jobs as the good ones.

As for the cult thought, any group that isn't main stream is called a cult. It is no more cultish, however, than those that blindly follow the mainstream. Independant thought has always sounded good, but no one really ever wants to hear it, let alone consider that someone else's facts are valid.

 

[jodifla]

No one thinks their schools are like that. But as a school psychologist, that is what I encountered on a daily basis. We live in at city of about 20,000 that thinks it is Mayberry, RFD. A quaint historical city with painted lady homes. Our High School, and the expensive liberal arts college which is listed in the top 100 list, have a huge heroin problem. No one admits it. No one believes it, because there is such a denial issue. The same sex games that are going on in the "big city" are rampant in the Middle School, and a friend says they are now seeing them in the elementary school. Does anyone believe it? No, denial.

As for poorly qualified teachers, well, not eveyone graduates in the top of their class. Many just eek by. And they get the same jobs as the good ones.

As for the cult thought, any group that isn't main stream is called a cult. It is no more cultish, however, than those that blindly follow the mainstream. Independant thought has always sounded good, but no one really ever wants to hear it, let alone consider that someone else's facts are valid.

In my high school, waaay back in the '70s, there was apparently a whole lot of cocaine going on. I found out only after I graduated.

So what? I didn't get involved in any of it. I stayed clear of the trouble makers. Because I had good parenting, and some good sense about me, I graduated in the top 1 percent of my class, and I went on to a great state college.

It, too, had a party-hearty reputation. I had a lot of fun there. But I still graduated with great grades, even though I went to quite a few parties. It's just part of life. It doesn't have to suck you in and destroy you.

 

[momto2girls]

The debate long ago got away from the original post and the conversation contiues. Why do you feel the conversation needs to be segragated to homeschoolers? Like I was saying...it is like you can't roll with the punches so you need to separate from society. It reminds me of Wizard of Oz - "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" You just want to talk amongst yourselves? Is there no insight in the outside world?

You are right. My comment came rather late in the discussion, but it is still valid. It isn't me asking for the conversation to be segregated to homeschoolers. The OP asked that. She specifically asked a question of the DIS homeschooling parents.

Hey, I'm up for the homeschooling debate. I'm just pointing out that this topic wasn't intended to be a "pros and cons of homeschooling" thread. It didn't become that until the non-homeschoolers offered their "insights".

 

[Brier Rose]

I'm really sorry that this has turned so ugly. I really hope I didn't come across as superior and self-rightous

My biggest intention in getting involved in this debate was not to just sing the praises of homeshooling, but truly to explain how it works to some of you who really seem not to know.

It can be done sucessfully for all grades from K5 to 12th.
I've already pointed out the many methods that can be used to acheive this.

Do I think homeshooling is best..of course! If I didn't we wouldn't be doing it!

But at the same time I do not think that all public and private schools are bad! There are some good ones out there, and I think most of us have said that.
It just seems funny to me that while we all can fully admit that there can be, and are homeschool failures, some of you cannot or refuse to see that there does exsist a problem with many public/private schools.

I guess some people believe a bad school is better than no school at all.
As long as the kids are socialized right??

I think there have been hurt feelings on both sides, with some comments just being down right mean.

I wish the best for all children, mine, yours, everybody's!

 

[noodleknitter]

My post was directed to the OP, and to the OP ONLY! I did not imply, nor attempt to imply, that any poster's specific child was odd or that ALL homeschooling parents used homeschooling to justify being SAHMs. The OP asked for opinions, and I gave her mine. If you don't like what I think about homeschooling, that's unfortuntate. At least I didn't sugar coat it or try to pretend that everybody the OP & her children will come in contact with will be supportive of her choice, should she choose to homeschool. I still agree with her DH, that homeschooling may put her children at a disadvantage socially.

I think the bigger question is why so many of you either HS or send your kids to private school. Why do you tolerate such a lousy public school system? Why are you not demanding reform?

I'm fairly certain the OP has figured out that one!

To answer your second question, though, I couldn't even fight the school system for reform when I was working for it. Teachers would come with a difficulty, we'd work out an IEP, and they would decide it wasn't doable in 2 or 3 days. Consistently. There was no attempt to improve crappy circumstances, and the kids they were complaining about were disrupting their entire classroom. It was heart-breaking.

The other issue is that everyone (and I am speaking locally) believes that the only way to improve the schools is to throw more money at them. Somehow that will answer all of the problems. So we vote on more levies. But it doesn't change the fads of the NEA, nor does it stop the ridiculous behavior of the teacher's union. (We allowed yet another child molester to resign just last year, rather than firing. He will go on to yet another school and assault again.)

I admit that I saw the dregs of the system, but frankly, they affect everything, IMO.

 

[momto2girls]

I think the bigger question is why so many of you either HS or send your kids to private school. Why do you tolerate such a lousy public school system? Why are you not demanding reform?

Personally, I think that the public school system is so broken that it will take decades to dig ourselves out. I'm not willing to put my children in such an environment. Besides, we have have the option of homeschooling or private schools, so it's all good.

I guess my question is why do so many of you care what I do with MY children? I honestly couldn't care less what schooling decision you make for your children. If public schools work for you, great! So, why are you so offended when people choose homeschooling or private school for their children? Some of the people on this thread are so incredibly hostile. I swear that none of us are trying to kidnap your children and homeschool them. So, why are you so offended by the notion of us doing something that we feel is right for our families?

 

[belle&beast]

That's my question too. The OP specifically asked a question and directed it to "DIS Homeschoolers". She didn't ask an open question to the entire board. She didn't ask everyone whether they thought that homeschooling would hurt her child's socialization process. She asked DIS Homeschoolers how to convince her husband.

Yet, somehow, lots of non-homeschoolers felt that they needed to jump in to offer their opinions.

I am a non-homeschooler and an educator in PS. I previously posted because having worked with lots of dfferent children I feel I have experience and information that is worthwhile. Don't disregard people because they are choosing to educate their children dofferently than you have. Not everyone is flaming, some have true interest and valid points.

 

[belle&beast]

That's my question too. The OP specifically asked a question and directed it to "DIS Homeschoolers". She didn't ask an open question to the entire board. She didn't ask everyone whether they thought that homeschooling would hurt her child's socialization process. She asked DIS Homeschoolers how to convince her husband.

Yet, somehow, lots of non-homeschoolers felt that they needed to jump in to offer their opinions.

I am a non-homeschooler and an educator in PS. I previously posted because having worked with lots of dfferent children I feel I have experience and information that is worthwhile. Don't disregard people because they are choosing to educate their children differently than you have. Not everyone is flaming, some have true interest and valid points.

To the OP, I hope you are getting some good information in spite of all the arguments.

 

[belle&beast]

sorry for the double post- the server was busy- I didn't realize it went through

 

[Maybelle]

Ok, for those of you who are REALLY interested, and not just wanting to bash homeschoolers, I will try to explain some of my family's reasons we decided to homeschool.

First, as I mentioned in a previous post, I have 15 years experience working in public schools in my state as a speech language pathologist, so I do have an advanced degree and teaching experience. I know that has helped me in homeschooling, I won't deny that. I get to see the good and bad of public education on a regular basis, and have seen a great deal of both. Here are some reasons why we homeschool:

+ Homeschooling allows the ability to work at a child's pace; to move through concepts and material quickly, or spend more time on mastery as needed. PS and Priv.S alike are not structured to allow time for true mastery much of the time.

+ Homeschooling allows me to spend more time with my daughter. This is very important to me.

+ Homeschooling allows me to monitor what she is putting into her mind and who she is associating with. *(For those of you ready to flame me for this, please don't take that to mean something it is not...we all want good influences around our children. My DD plays with HS, PS and Priv.S kids.)

+ Studies show the importance in correlation between small class size and increased performance. Ask any PS teacher if their students do better in a class of 15 or a class of 25. The smaller the ratio=the more vested the educator=(in general) better performance.

+ I have a vested interest (see above) in whether or not my daughter succeeds. This is not to say that classroom teachers do not, believe me I work with some GREAT teachers, but admit it, there is a difference.

+ Given the fact that no envoronment is completely safe...I pretty much know that she is not, on a daily basis, going to be bullied, sworn at or worse while trying to learn.

+ I am able to expose my DD to social issues I feel she is ready for, and yes, present them from my faith perspective. We are very open with her about social issues, etc., but we do deal with things from a biblical perspective. Sorry to those who whould like all learning to be from a secular perspective, but schools, whether you like it or not ARE teaching a worldview of secular humanism. While we explain other's perspectives, we present things in light of our beliefs. This is a HUGE factor for us, as it is for many homeschool families.

+ I am a very research oriented person. Studies show homeschoolers, on the whole, score higher on standardized testing than PS students. I do not ever want to limit my daughter in her future endeavors, I will strive to have her reach her full potential for learning so that any avenue she chooses to pursue is open to her.

+ It is much more flexible for scheduling, and along with this, whether you like it or not, there is a great deal of wasted time in any classroom situation simply due to the logistics of the situation.

+ I went through the PS, and did fine, but what I see now is that PS are simply not the same as they were 20 years ago.

+ DD is able to participate in many more "outside of the classroom" experiences that she wouldn't be able to if not homeschooled. We do many more field trips to coincide with her learning, and she is able to be involved in many, varied activities.

+ I know exactly what she is being taught, so we are always actively learning. I can utilize many more "teachable moments" at any point in the day relating to what she is studying, because I know exactly where she is at in the learning process.

+ DD loves being homeschooled. We have a great time together. Although the process is very difficult, at times, We feel that she is getting a great education.

If DD were forced to move into a classroom setting, it would take some adjustment, as our homeschool is much less routinized than a classroom would be, but she would do fine academically, based on what I see in the public school classrooms I work in. She plays with all different kinds of kids, and does well socially with both peers and adults. She is polite and considerate, and generally a pleasure to be around, although, like any kid, she certainly does have her moments

I know this is long, but maybe it will be helpful to someone, and help this thread to get back on track.

 

[noodleknitter]

In my high school, waaay back in the '70s, there was apparently a whole lot of cocaine going on. I found out only after I graduated.

So what? I didn't get involved in any of it. I stayed clear of the trouble makers. Because I had good parenting, and some good sense about me, I graduated in the top 1 percent of my class, and I went on to a great state college.

It, too, had a party-hearty reputation. I had a lot of fun there. But I still graduated with great grades, even though I went to quite a few parties. It's just part of life. It doesn't have to suck you in and destroy you.

Same era here. I don't think that dealing with these issues at these ages are in any way a benefit to a child. I am glad it didn't suck you in , but it sucked my husband in (middle school), it sucked my brother in, and it sucks way too many other kids in now. Kids who should have everything going for them are being sucked in in droves. To say nothing for the poor kids who have nothing going for them.

Avoiding these things are not the only reason we home educate, but they are a factor.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Ok, for those of you who are REALLY interested, and not just wanting to bash homeschoolers, I will try to explain some of my family's reasons we decided to homeschool.

First, as I mentioned in a previous post, I have 15 years experience working in public schools in my state as a speech language pathologist, so I do have an advanced degree and teaching experience. I know that has helped me in homeschooling, I won't deny that. I get to see the good and bad of public education on a regular basis, and have seen a great deal of both. Here are some reasons why we homeschool:

+ Homeschooling allows the ability to work at a child's pace; to move through concepts and material quickly, or spend more time on mastery as needed. PS and Priv.S alike are not structured to allow time for true mastery much of the time.

+ Homeschooling allows me to spend more time with my daughter. This is very important to me.

+ Homeschooling allows me to monitor what she is putting into her mind and who she is associating with. *(For those of you ready to flame me for this, please don't take that to mean something it is not...we all want good influences around our children. My DD plays with HS, PS and Priv.S kids.)

+ Studies show the importance in correlation between small class size and increased performance. Ask any PS teacher if their students do better in a class of 15 or a class of 25. The smaller the ratio=the more vested the educator=(in general) better performance.

+ I have a vested interest (see above) in whether or not my daughter succeeds. This is not to say that classroom teachers do not, believe me I work with some GREAT teachers, but admit it, there is a difference.

+ Given the fact that no envoronment is completely safe...I pretty much know that she is not, on a daily basis, going to be bullied, sworn at or worse while trying to learn.

+ I am able to expose my DD to social issues I feel she is ready for, and yes, present them from my faith perspective. We are very open with her about social issues, etc., but we do deal with things from a biblical perspective. Sorry to those who whould like all learning to be from a secular perspective, but schools, whether you like it or not ARE teaching a worldview of secular humanism. While we explain other's perspectives, we present things in light of our beliefs. This is a HUGE factor for us, as it is for many homeschool families.

+ I am a very research oriented person. Studies show homeschoolers, on the whole, score higher on standardized testing than PS students. I do not ever want to limit my daughter in her future endeavors, I will strive to have her reach her full potential for learning so that any avenue she chooses to pursue is open to her.

+ It is much more flexible for scheduling, and along with this, whether you like it or not, there is a great deal of wasted time in any classroom situation simply due to the logistics of the situation.

+ I went through the PS, and did fine, but what I see now is that PS are simply not the same as they were 20 years ago.

+ DD is able to participate in many more "outside of the classroom" experiences that she wouldn't be able to if not homeschooled. We do many more field trips to coincide with her learning, and she is able to be involved in many, varied activities.

+ I know exactly what she is being taught, so we are always actively learning. I can utilize many more "teachable moments" at any point in the day relating to what she is studying, because I know exactly where she is at in the learning process.

+ DD loves being homeschooled. We have a great time together. Although the process is very difficult, at times, We feel that she is getting a great education.

If DD were forced to move into a classroom setting, it would take some adjustment, as our homeschool is much less routinized than a classroom would be, but she would do fine academically, based on what I see in the public school classrooms I work in. She plays with all different kinds of kids, and does well socially with both peers and adults. She is polite and considerate, and generally a pleasure to be around, although, like any kid, she certainly does have her moments

I know this is long, but maybe it will be helpful to someone, and help this thread to get back on track.

It sounds like you made a well informed choice for your DD. Good for you! I wish you both continued success.

 

[FayeW]

Personally, I think that the public school system is so broken that it will take decades to dig ourselves out. I'm not willing to put my children in such an environment. Besides, we have have the option of homeschooling or private schools, so it's all good.

I guess my question is why do so many of you care what I do with MY children? I honestly couldn't care less what schooling decision you make for your children. If public schools work for you, great! So, why are you so offended when people choose homeschooling or private school for their children? Some of the people on this thread are so incredibly hostile. I swear that none of us are trying to kidnap your children and homeschool them. So, why are you so offended by the notion of us doing something that we feel is right for our families?

I'm not offended by your choices in the least...WHY would I be?? The OP wanted help convincing her husband. I happen to agree with her husband, therefore I felt my input would be helpful to her, so she could see that other people feel the same way as her husband does.

I never judged anybody for their choice. Why are you taking this so personally? All I did was respond to the OP's post, and then defend myself against some posters who apparently thought I was talking directly to them!

 

[jodifla]

Ok, for those of you who are REALLY interested, and not just wanting to bash homeschoolers, I will try to explain some of my family's reasons we decided to homeschool.

First, as I mentioned in a previous post, I have 15 years experience working in public schools in my state as a speech language pathologist, so I do have an advanced degree and teaching experience. I know that has helped me in homeschooling, I won't deny that. I get to see the good and bad of public education on a regular basis, and have seen a great deal of both. Here are some reasons why we homeschool:

+ Homeschooling allows the ability to work at a child's pace; to move through concepts and material quickly, or spend more time on mastery as needed. PS and Priv.S alike are not structured to allow time for true mastery much of the time.

+ Homeschooling allows me to spend more time with my daughter. This is very important to me.

+ Homeschooling allows me to monitor what she is putting into her mind and who she is associating with. *(For those of you ready to flame me for this, please don't take that to mean something it is not...we all want good influences around our children. My DD plays with HS, PS and Priv.S kids.)

+ Studies show the importance in correlation between small class size and increased performance. Ask any PS teacher if their students do better in a class of 15 or a class of 25. The smaller the ratio=the more vested the educator=(in general) better performance.

+ I have a vested interest (see above) in whether or not my daughter succeeds. This is not to say that classroom teachers do not, believe me I work with some GREAT teachers, but admit it, there is a difference.

+ Given the fact that no envoronment is completely safe...I pretty much know that she is not, on a daily basis, going to be bullied, sworn at or worse while trying to learn.

+ I am able to expose my DD to social issues I feel she is ready for, and yes, present them from my faith perspective. We are very open with her about social issues, etc., but we do deal with things from a biblical perspective. Sorry to those who whould like all learning to be from a secular perspective, but schools, whether you like it or not ARE teaching a worldview of secular humanism. While we explain other's perspectives, we present things in light of our beliefs. This is a HUGE factor for us, as it is for many homeschool families.

+ I am a very research oriented person. Studies show homeschoolers, on the whole, score higher on standardized testing than PS students. I do not ever want to limit my daughter in her future endeavors, I will strive to have her reach her full potential for learning so that any avenue she chooses to pursue is open to her.

+ It is much more flexible for scheduling, and along with this, whether you like it or not, there is a great deal of wasted time in any classroom situation simply due to the logistics of the situation.

+ I went through the PS, and did fine, but what I see now is that PS are simply not the same as they were 20 years ago.

+ DD is able to participate in many more "outside of the classroom" experiences that she wouldn't be able to if not homeschooled. We do many more field trips to coincide with her learning, and she is able to be involved in many, varied activities.

+ I know exactly what she is being taught, so we are always actively learning. I can utilize many more "teachable moments" at any point in the day relating to what she is studying, because I know exactly where she is at in the learning process.

+ DD loves being homeschooled. We have a great time together. Although the process is very difficult, at times, We feel that she is getting a great education.

If DD were forced to move into a classroom setting, it would take some adjustment, as our homeschool is much less routinized than a classroom would be, but she would do fine academically, based on what I see in the public school classrooms I work in. She plays with all different kinds of kids, and does well socially with both peers and adults. She is polite and considerate, and generally a pleasure to be around, although, like any kid, she certainly does have her moments

I know this is long, but maybe it will be helpful to someone, and help this thread to get back on track.

You make many good points. But underlying this all, you are a teacher by experience and trade, and that's going to make a difference. It's not like someone picking up a manual and teaching kids without any background on the educational process or the subject.

So while you may be well qualified to teach, it's not a stretch to think that lots of homeschooling parents whose main desire is to keep their kids from all us secular humanists out there have no business teaching their kids.

 

[jodifla]

Same era here. I don't think that dealing with these issues at these ages are in any way a benefit to a child. I am glad it didn't suck you in , but it sucked my husband in (middle school), it sucked my brother in, and it sucks way too many other kids in now. Kids who should have everything going for them are being sucked in in droves. To say nothing for the poor kids who have nothing going for them.

Avoiding these things are not the only reason we home educate, but they are a factor.

Again, at some point, your kids are going to have to join the world, and you won't be able to control every minute of every day.

Why do you have so little faith in your kids that they would choose the right path?

 

[noodleknitter]

You make many good points. But underlying this all, you are a teacher by experience and trade, and that's going to make a difference. It's not like someone picking up a manual and teaching kids without any background on the educational process or the subject.

So while you may be well qualified to teach, it's not a stretch to think that lots of homeschooling parents whose main desire is to keep their kids from all us secular humanists out there have no business teaching their kids.

Not everyone teaches everything. I spoke earlier of my gf who has a high school degree and HSed hers into MIT. It just takes knowing how to look for the best option.

In some states, mine included, college classes can be double dipped as high school credits (this is for all students, not just HSers.) Mine had their BS/BA's by the time they were 20 years old.

As for the secular humanist comment, well, I suspect that you wouldn't want a conservative christian forcing/testing on his religion to your student either. Doesn't seem like a big difference to me.