Help DIS Homeschoolers Help me convince my DH

[Karel]

Thank you for sharing your experience with me. I am very interested in all aspects of special ed. Did the school test her too?

In defense of your school, I think most people start out with 'let's rule out ADD". We put my son on medication a few years back and it didn't do what we were hoping for, so we took him off. I also think a lot of regular ed teachers can be clueless when it comes to certain disorders. It takes time to find the best way to help a kid. If I saw a kid, I wouldn't think "sensory intergration disorder' right away.

Isn't homeschool year round unusual? The homeschoolers I know stop for the summer.

And I have heard horror stories where the parents disagree with the evaluation of the CST and decide to homeschool their child because they don't want the 'special ed stigma'. My own in laws tried to homeschool their teenager because he had school problems. Talk about people who should NOT be homeschooling. They were the reason he has so many problems with school.

 

[KJMAX1]

Karel,


While most schools "test" children for ADD or ADHD, there are better was to find this out then placing them on medications. As I said before I quickly sought all the information I could get on the medication used before deciding to eventually get outside help for my daughter. Learning from my dear old boyfriend who is now a neuro brain surgeon , medications to control ADD or ADHD have substances in them from cocaine. Before placing my daughter on medications, and waiting the 6 month period to see if they work and improve her skills, I wanted help now and use medication as a last resort, just like people do with high blood pressure (losing weight, exercise). To me, my daughter's emotional and mental well-being regarding her ability to work with her peers, and take in information were to the point of her going into a depression. My daughter WAS tested by the PS. Her testing range was within "normal". However, there were things that bothered me when the teacher or therapists would say there were plenty of kids who "just need more time." While I understand some children need more time, most of those children can catch up by the end of the year. My daughter wasnt catching up and was getting worse. Things that I found "odd" were passed off as a "quirky kid" or some other reason by the PS. When your child comes to you crying because some child told her she was stupid, or dumb it hurts not only her but me. My daughter is not stupid and is very intelligent. We taught her how to identify various forms of classical music, their composers, and the titles of each piece by the age of 3. I knew my daughter had the ability to learn. To wait the 6 months to see if the medication worked was too long to me. Our pediatrician who sits on the CDC, and is one of the leading physicians at the children's hospital here, was less than thrilled when we walked in with an evaluation done by the school. This is where we started to rule things out on our own through various testing. A Neurodevelopmentalist is the one who caught our daughter's condition. While the average teacher, or the average psychologist at a school might not know what SID is, its the number 1 most recognizable condition of autism. All teachers in our state at least have gone through recognizing special needs, and this is on the list(told by our pediatrician for exactly this reason). When we told the teacher of the diagnosis her response....."Oh wow, not it all makes sense. I dont know why I didnt think of that..." By then it was too late, we were into February of this year STILL in Kindergarten. My daughter is 7!!! So within about one month my daughter was reading pretty successfully when the school said she wouldnt be able to use phonics it would all need to be sight reading. They also told us that she didnt have the ability to think abstractly, and she wouldnt be able to participate in classroom math. WRONG. She was able to learn basic addition and subtraction within the same month. Basically if she stayed in that school with the diagnoses she has now, she would still be in Kindergarten, and not able to read or do simple math. She would have an individual education plan, and would be removed from class during reading and math time (how embarrassing). It doesnt mean she will be a rocket scientist, but she is learning, and the biggest thing....she's happy!

As for year round schooling, out of our local support group I joined, with 122 families, about 40% of us go full time. Majority of families may not go year round but there are quite a few who continue through the summer! My only concern is our trip to WDW this August. I am hoping with the spinning on the rides like her therapist does to help her regulate her senses will help her be able to enjoy her trip.

 

[jodifla]

Karel,

To address your question about how you know if your child has a learning disability or not, I can answer because my daughter does. She was in Kindergarten her first year, and was acting "immature" the teacher said, and it was concluded to hold her back. My daughter repeated her second year of Kindergarten...Finally about in October of 2005 I decided to get an independent evaluation on my daughter that my husband and I paid privately for. I noticed things with my daughter that my younger son never did, and being a former child care provider I knew something was wrong. I continued with the evaluations until it was determined my daughter had sensory integration disorder, and an auditory processing disorder. However, the school began to tell me she was ADHD. If she had been placed on this medication, my daughter in no way would "get better" and would have continued to struggle in her learning both social and educational. After meetings with the school, and with our private therapist, the school concluded that my daughter could not be helped to the degree of which she needed. She was TWO deviation below the mean!!! THATS HUGE! She also can hear at 130 ohms whereas a normal hearing level is between 20 - 30ohms. My daughter literally hears a pin drop and it sounds like a hammer to her...So over the course of a day she is totally overwhelmed, and acts like ADHD. Our PS never caught that! She couldnt read or write by the end of her first year of K. The PS has offered to provide support when needed and also some therapy (however, its nothing like what we get privately) and she qualifies just like a regular attending child to get services. We continue with 2 hours a week with private therapy and about 15 hours of therapy at home. While it is a HUGE undertaking for a homeschool parent it has worked. My daughter can now read, completed her 1st grade math book, has had many unit studies this year, and is happy! She was SOOO depressed at school when the kids laughed at her, and called her names. Now with the therapy and ability to have a very quiet learning time, she has grown by leaps and bounds. Another way to discover your child has a disability is by taking the IOWA tests. It gives you an average of where a child should be, and lets you know what needs to be done. I think in general we all know children should be reading by 8, they should be following their peers in traditional school with first grade math books for 6 to 7 yr olds....etc. Another aspect of a homeschooler noticing these things is to be aware, read information, and stay connected with other people who might notice something. HTH


BTW, we get more learning done in one year because we do not take time off for vacations, we school year round (we take only 2 weeks per year). Most kids ahead in their grade probably do the same thing. It also helps prevent those learning lags in the beginning of the school year where most teachers have to go over everything again.

Actually, this is really good information! THank you for sharing. I totally understand homeschooling under these kind of circumstances.

Is there a certain homeschooling curriculum that's good for kids with sensory issues? My DS seems to be exhibiting some signs of this along with his language delay, and I imagine I'll need to work with him at home to supplement his school.

 

[noodleknitter]

Whoa. I think you are taking my questions in the wrong way. I'm just trying to understand the different aspects of homeschooling. I totally respect your choice. I didn't know anyone growing up who homeschooled. Now, I know plenty of people who homeschool or send their kids to private school but this confuses me because I think our elementary school in town - there's only one- is a pretty good school.

One of the reasons stated here, by at least one person, was that their school was full of drugs, sex and drinking. That's why I brought the college thing up. I think that my sons and daughter are learning how to think for themselves and resist peer pressure in a public high school too. They see kids who make bad choices and see the consequences and learn from it.

Also, I think my high school allows people to pursue their interests too. They have quite a few clubs available. My son is heavily into the Latin Club - goes to convention, takes national tests, even had a trip to NYC to see Spamalot. He's also free to explore things he's interested on weekends and after school.

When I'm working during the day, I'm not free to drop everything and do something I might be interested in doing.

Me neither!

Sorry I was short in my explanation. I have arthritis, and get choppy when I write due to it. It sounds like your son has some really nice options that are not available to the students in our area. There is no Latin, etc. My kids would LOVE to see Spamalot! They were introduced to Monty Python waaaay too early in life!

Everyone does things differently. For us, this works, and I was attempting to explain why. When my daughter was putting 4 hours of the day into her music, she still had time for school work, and for her friends, due to the flexibility of our schedule. It worked for us. When my friends child took off in Math, holding him back would have been silly. It was his gift, and he was accepted into some special program at MIT. These are merely examples. I've got 3 in college, and 3 still at home making their way. Who knows what our future holds.

It is also great that your son has been able to avoid the alcohol and drug problems. They hit so many. I hope that he continues to thrive in his environment, just as mine have thrived in ours.

 

[belle&beast]

When you are looking into learning disabilities, SID and speech disorders, please don't disregard public school testing and therapy. There are many great therapists and evaluation teams that can be beneficial at no cost to you. I have worked with many HS families in our system and we have had a great working relationship. I do have to say that the corporation where I work really is excellent- they provide continuing education and expect us to go above and beyond and I have to say that we really do. ADHD is NEVER our first answer- it cannot be diagnosed by teachers- and we really pride ourselves in looking for the true answer to the issues. I think you will find that good classroom teachers are recognizing sensory and auditory issues in their students without jumping to conclusions of attention deficit right away.

 

[Disneyrsh]

How many yuppie parents these days LET there kids suffer the consequences. Most of the parents we have known don't seem to agree with us about wrong and right, and then they just bail the kids out of trouble. I would love to live somewhere where it is different!

Yeah, that would be the planet "IWISH".

The ultimate solution isn't private, public or homeschools.

We all have the same desire; to raise kids that are strong enough to avoid as many of the pitfalls of life as possible, and to recover well from those pitfalls they do succumb to, without needing a constand helping hand/handout/apron string from society around them.

How we feel we are making them strong, I think, is causing a lot of the fighting on this thread.

It's all just different paths to the same goal.

 

[KJMAX1]

Belle&Beast, glad you live in a great area for your children. Ours here is not that great through PS. The reason I say that, we've been through it. We used some of their services for therapy, but some became counter productive because the type of physical therapy our daughter needs cannot be met through our local PS therefore it began feeding her need to stim herself instead of release that energy. It ended up becoming a waste of time because she under the state guidelines could be taking extra time at the private therapy clinic and still be covered. Microsoft had to create its own medical coverage for employees here because so many of them needed treatment not covered by local PS. While I understand where the teachers or therapists might not initially think ADD or ADHD, I totally feel it is over used here in our area. My cousin who's 3 yr old is taking special ed at the PS, was told to be tested for ADD or ADHD. He has autism! They passed a law here recently as well because of a lawsuit that came about from a parent, where parents have the right to not medicate their child if they are seeking other treatments. Anyway, the lawsuit came when a teacher turned in a parent to CPS because she told them she was seeking further evaluation on her child before placing him on medication. CPS removed her son for 6 months while they investigated because they claimed she was neglecting his medical need and harming him. So she had to wait through all the testing being done before she could have him back. Oh yeah, meanwhile they placed him on the meds, only to later take him off when they determined he wasnt ADD or ADHD.

Jodi,

One of the first books I read was "The Out of Sync Child". Then I got the second book called "The Out of Sync Child Has Fun." Both books were very helpful with insight and understanding, as well as activities for children who has SID. For my daughter because she is taking in so many sounds we are using "Math U See" program designed to "show" math instead of hearing it be told. This was EXTREMELY helpful. As for language programs I am not sure. My daughter totally understands what is being said to her if she process' it slowly, but its hard for her to form sentences. Through speech therapy covered by insurance she has done FANTASTIC. She would always get "he" or "she" mixed up as well as other things. The therapist gives us "homework" each week to take home and do. At first we thought it was her hearing but that tested above average...Then we discovered its a processing thing. We decided to teach her basic phonics, and continue with some sight words, which everyone uses eventually anyway, right?? A baseline eval. might be a good way to start if you arent sure. Good luck to you!

 

[disneymom3]

Well, I never do this, but I am going to answer the original question without reading the whole thread. I could see by the end of the first page that it was not something I wanted to get into. I am not even getting into the whole, "I have known xx homeschoolers and they had no idea how to interact" nonsense or the "there are some people who should not be homeschooling" as if all public school teachers are stellar deal either.

So, here is my answer for you--I don't think you can decide for sure if homeschooling is right for you, if it's something you are considering, unless you try it. As far as "socialization" your children can be as active in the community as you want them to be. It will be on you to seek out opportunities for them to participate in. Around here, it takes a little bit of looking but my kids have done several classes through the school district targetted at homeschoolers, have done gymnastics, homeschool swim and gym through the Y, girl scouts, soccer, dance, piano, theater and many more. Some of these that are targetted at homeschoolers, the only difference is that they are during the day so you don't have to worry about filling up your evenings with all this stuff. For us, it is a matter of convenience more than that we would be with other homeschoolers. In our family's situation, the kids make friends more easily than any other children I know, whether that is their personality or because they are homeschooled I don't know, but homeschooling has not hurt them socially.

Academics wise, homeschooling works best for us because DD learns very quickly and wastes a lot of time in a classroom waiting for everyone else to catch up. DS on the other hand is one of those kids who doesn't catch up and would be either holding others up or just lost in a classroom environment.

I never get the whole arguing over this issue. It used to get me really heated, but now I just wonder why people cannot simply accept that one solution is not right for every single person. We don't all go into the same type or field of work as adults and kids are different and have different needs too. It is all legal and every family is able to choose what is best for their family. Why is that so terrible and threatening to people? (On both sides of the issue.)

 

[belle&beast]

One of the first books I read was "The Out of Sync Child". Then I got the second book called "The Out of Sync Child Has Fun." Both books were very helpful with insight and understanding, as well as activities for children who has SID. For my daughter because she is taking in so many sounds we are using "Math U See" program designed to "show" math instead of hearing it be told. This was EXTREMELY helpful. As for language programs I am not sure. My daughter totally understands what is being said to her if she process' it slowly, but its hard for her to form sentences. Through speech therapy covered by insurance she has done FANTASTIC. She would always get "he" or "she" mixed up as well as other things. The therapist gives us "homework" each week to take home and do. At first we thought it was her hearing but that tested above average...Then we discovered its a processing thing. We decided to teach her basic phonics, and continue with some sight words, which everyone uses eventually anyway, right?? A baseline eval. might be a good way to start if you arent sure. Good luck to you!

The Out of Sync Child is an excellent resource and is always the first one I recommend. I have learned a lot from my OT friends to recommend visual-perception testing and therapy if warranted. It is not an acuity test, but more like how the brain processes what it sees. Around here there are very few optometrists who are trained, but I have seen tremendous results in kiddos who receive vision therapy, especially in their reading skills.

 

[Karel]

Karel,
Basically if she stayed in that school with the diagnoses she has now, she would still be in Kindergarten, and not able to read or do simple math. She would have an individual education plan, and would be removed from class during reading and math time (how embarrassing). s:

Well, you had me until this part. I hope you don't mean that as it sounds. There are many children who leave the classroom for math and reading. There is nothing embarrassing about it. They are being taught on their level and have to work very hard to succeed. It's a negative reaction like that which hurts them. An IEP is a useful tool.

 

[AllyCatTapia]

aaaaaawwww mamato2 (who cannot even self identify outside of her role as a mother!!!) Did I get your panties in a wad?

How is it that my childrens' teachers are NOT experts in their field? Hmmm? They are either education majors OR they are Chemistry/Math/Reading majors.

Don't be a fool- if you know ANYTHING about the education system (which many homeschoolers know just about what applies to them and thats it), you know that licensing and qualification is done at the State level, other than NCLB which is an attempt toward nationalization (in some peoples opinion).

So, in MY state, don't know what backward state YOU are in, but in MY state, grades K-6 are education majors, most of K is education major with child dev minor and 6-12 are subject field majors. In addition to that they ALL have to have masters degrees within 5 years of their provisional license.

Therefore, they're professionals in their field.

I'm sorry that you homeschool your children, but you don't even know the most basic facts about our national education system, which is basically that there ISN"T one, so don't go around generalizing.

PS- More so than most of the Jesus freaks I see homeschooling around here, I'm probably umpteen more times more qualified to HS my kids- IF I so stupidly chose to do so- as I have a masters in child dev and an undergrad minor in Ed. and have spent years upon years working with children.

But I would never put my children is such a position. Ever.

OH- and I know nothing about homeschool? yeah, um, I spent quite a bit of time in my states dept of family services AND ******* Dept of Education RESCUING messed up children, isolated children, children whose FATHERS witht heir I lvoe my family life radio bumper stickers took the moms car keys so she couldn't leave their home (ahem andrea yates type freaks). I have seen PLENTY of "homeschoolers" and "unschoolers"

More than I wish.

Just cause someones remarks are rude, don't assume they don't have a reason. I have been disgusted by this more than my fair share of times.


Oh and by the way - all your little facts are "elementary" (haha) and really have nothing to do with YOUR LACK OF QUALIFICATION to teach your children (past, say, 1st grade!)

 

[AllyCatTapia]

"I never get the whole arguing over this issue. It used to get me really heated, but now I just wonder why people cannot simply accept that one solution is not right for every single person"

You know why? Because our children will be peers and I want the best for my childs peers and the society that my child comes to be a part of. And I don't believe that (most) homeschoolers will do much else past college than sit in the back of the room and seethe that the professor is a "liberal" just because they are suddenly away from their mommys protective and backward idelaogy, and anything new and against that must be "liberal".

 

[OceanAnnie]

"I never get the whole arguing over this issue. It used to get me really heated, but now I just wonder why people cannot simply accept that one solution is not right for every single person"

You know why? Because our children will be peers and I want the best for my childs peers and the society that my child comes to be a part of. And I don't believe that (most) homeschoolers will do much else past college than sit in the back of the room and seethe that the professor is a "liberal" just because they are suddenly away from their mommys protective and backward idelaogy, and anything new and against that must be "liberal".

Nevermind.

 

[graygables]

I also did not read the entire thread (just the first 3 pages ) I am a former English teacher (which makes me a "professional", right??? ) and I am now e-schooling my youngest 2 of 4. The 17yo just finished and will be starting college in the fall. When was the last time you were at work and someone offered to sell you illicit drugs? or offered you ten bucks for oral s*x? or slammed you into the break room fridge? We live in a "good" district and all of the above happened to my older daughters, not exactly the kind of "socialization" any child needs and certainly nothing to prepare them for the "real world". We find avenues for appropriate, real life social interaction through lessons, field trips, 17yo had a job at 15.

BTW, she was kicked out of honors history b/c I refused to allow her to watch an R rated movie when she was 15yo. "Professional" teacher? I don't think so. To assume that people are somehow stupid b/c they homeschool and therefore are unable to teach the various subjects is just, well, stupid. One does *NOT* have to have a degree in something to understand or be able to teach it, that is only b/c the public has been socially engineered to believe that. Learning happens outside of school buildings and despite age. When my older DD needed help with chemistry (although I had taken it in the 7th grade, I'd forgotten a lot), my dad stepped in to help. Seems he was a chem major for his first year of college and has a better recollection of it than I do. You find the resources you need to fill in any gaps in your own knowledge (and, gee, isn't that what people do every single day in offices around the world???) Incidentally, my dad is on his 3rd career. After the Army and an airline, he is now a college professor. With a mere bachelor's degree he earned 40 years ago (that has next to NOTHING to do with what he teaches!) Imagine that.

That said, I don't know where the OP lives, but you might look into e-schools. My DDs are transferring into one offered by the K12 program, from a different one. We are given a computer, internet access, full curriculum, and oversight by a state certified teacher (and for all those worried about "professionals", when they get to high school, there are teachers in each subject). We also receive special ed services for my DD who needs it. All of this is free of charge and paid for by MY tax dollars. We have to meet all the same benchmarks/testing as other public school students. Teachers (and parents) arrange field trips and other get togethers so students can meet others in their area. Students also talk with the teachers via computer links and telephone and have virtual classes with fellow students. It is a perfect fit for our family at the moment.

 

[sha_lyn]

I was wondering if AlleyCatTapia hates just home schoolers, or if she is this rude to everyone.Then I found the following posts
The first one is in reguards to young children (toddlers/preschoolers) spending the night away from home. The second is regarding a vent about a woman verbally attacking a teenagerfor opening a door for them.

You know you all want to say it:

How can those who DON'T let kids go EVER have a normal marriage/adult life?

You don't let kids control and direct your life, you absorb the CHILD INTO THE FAMILY (not vice versa). It's just weird to me.

And then the poor Kindergarten teacher is stuck with the wacky kid when being away from mom is FORCED on them.

UGH

So you let your little attitude-lippy teenager say that since a woman was trying to tell him that just because she is a woman doesn't mean she can't open a door herself, she is not a lady? You actually let your sons think and talk like that?

Ummm, yeah, the 50s are calling, they want their idealogy back.

IF YOUR SON OPENS A DOOR FOR ME I WOULD LET HIM KNOW THE EXACT SAME THING. FYI. I have arms. Thank you very much.

I think someone needs to open their mind a bit (or maybe a lot).

 

[disneymom3]

"I never get the whole arguing over this issue. It used to get me really heated, but now I just wonder why people cannot simply accept that one solution is not right for every single person"

You know why? Because our children will be peers and I want the best for my childs peers and the society that my child comes to be a part of. And I don't believe that (most) homeschoolers will do much else past college than sit in the back of the room and seethe that the professor is a "liberal" just because they are suddenly away from their mommys protective and backward idelaogy, and anything new and against that must be "liberal".

No, our children will not be "peers." Not sure who you think you are to decide what is best for my children, but last I checked we didn't live in a socialist country. Can't say any more than that because I like my DIS boards membership too much to waste it on you.

 

[Maybelle]

aaaaaawwww mamato2 (who cannot even self identify outside of her role as a mother!!!) Did I get your panties in a wad?

How is it that my childrens' teachers are NOT experts in their field? Hmmm? They are either education majors OR they are Chemistry/Math/Reading majors.

Don't be a fool- if you know ANYTHING about the education system (which many homeschoolers know just about what applies to them and thats it), you know that licensing and qualification is done at the State level, other than NCLB which is an attempt toward nationalization (in some peoples opinion).

So, in MY state, don't know what backward state YOU are in, but in MY state, grades K-6 are education majors, most of K is education major with child dev minor and 6-12 are subject field majors. In addition to that they ALL have to have masters degrees within 5 years of their provisional license.

Therefore, they're professionals in their field.

I'm sorry that you homeschool your children, but you don't even know the most basic facts about our national education system, which is basically that there ISN"T one, so don't go around generalizing.

PS- More so than most of the Jesus freaks I see homeschooling around here, I'm probably umpteen more times more qualified to HS my kids- IF I so stupidly chose to do so- as I have a masters in child dev and an undergrad minor in Ed. and have spent years upon years working with children.

But I would never put my children is such a position. Ever.

OH- and I know nothing about homeschool? yeah, um, I spent quite a bit of time in my states dept of family services AND ******* Dept of Education RESCUING messed up children, isolated children, children whose FATHERS witht heir I lvoe my family life radio bumper stickers took the moms car keys so she couldn't leave their home (ahem andrea yates type freaks). I have seen PLENTY of "homeschoolers" and "unschoolers"

More than I wish.

Just cause someones remarks are rude, don't assume they don't have a reason. I have been disgusted by this more than my fair share of times.


Oh and by the way - all your little facts are "elementary" (haha) and really have nothing to do with YOUR LACK OF QUALIFICATION to teach your children (past, say, 1st grade!)

I have been a participant on these boards for a year now, and I have never seen such hateflul posts. These comments are more than insulting and rude, they are downright hateful. Yes, this debate has gotten heated, but shame on you for these types of comments. They are quite uncalled for. I bet you also "preach" tolerance to your kids, while continuing to put down all of us ignorant "Jesus Freaks". I feel truly sorry for you. You must be a very unhappy person.

 

[sha_lyn]

I've been here for 6.5 yrs andI don't believe I've ever run into anyone so hateful and closed minded.

 

[momto2girls]

I have been a participant on these boards for a year now, and I have never seen such hateflul posts. These comments are more than insulting and rude, they are downright hateful. Yes, this debate has gotten heated, but shame on you for these types of comments. They are quite uncalled for. I bet you also "preach" tolerance to your kids, while continuing to put down all of us ignorant "Jesus Freaks". I feel truly sorry for you. You must be a very unhappy person.

I agree! I have never seen such an ugly, hateful post on this board before. I can't help but pity such a pathetic person.

 

[spotdog]

Please lock this thread. It is just ugly.

In a perfect world...all parents would know what is best for their children. Public schools would have programs to serve the best interests of all children. Private schools would be available, for a price, to those who want more. Homeschool would be legal for parents who feel that their children would do best in a more isolated, individualized environment...

Unfortunately, the world is not perfect. Some children succeed and others seem to fail, regardless of the school environment.