2022 Point Chart release date?

[Leight19]

The problem is that the current size of 1 bedrooms at the older resorts would not be big enough to fit 6, even without bedding.

I think @drusba posted that the POS has something regarding points being determined in some way by square footage which is why at this point, I don’t think there is a way equalize much between 1 bedroom and studio to correlate with demand.

Yeah I assumed that would be issue but not sure how creative teams are at finding space for beds since ssr upgraded from 4 to 5 I began to wonder if some of current 5 person 1br (like akv) would fit 6. I’m also biased in thinking of the 6 as 2 adults and 4 kids so my mind gets creative cramming the kids in lol.

 

[Phatscott25]

We're a family of 6 with 2 adults 4 kids and I couldn't imagine cramming us all into a 1 bedroom. Main reason being the wife and I would still want the king room/privacy etc. and that means even if there were 4 sleeping surfaces in the kitchen/living room area I feel my kids would be too cramped. Of course mine are 16, 16, 13, and 12 but I guess it could work if they were all little.

 

[Sandisw]

Yeah I assumed that would be issue but not sure how creative teams are at finding space for beds since ssr upgraded from 4 to 5 I began to wonder if some of current 5 person 1br (like akv) would fit 6. I’m also biased in thinking of the 6 as 2 adults and 4 kids so my mind gets creative cramming the kids in lol.

I think we have to remember that number of total points can not change so just not sure how much can be adjusted at current resorts,

The whole notion for a 1 bedroom when DVC first opened was the home away from home so the big draw was the living room and kitchen.

To sleep 6? Think we would lose the living room. Of course, going forward,..and I believe with RIV things were adjusted some as mentioned in terms of square footage and rooms,

Now that I stay more in 1 bedrooms would love to see it not cost as much, but pretty sure when DVD made decisions that they didn’t, just can’t see a way to make them closer to the cash comparisons.

 

[havoc315]

Yeah I assumed that would be issue but not sure how creative teams are at finding space for beds since ssr upgraded from 4 to 5 I began to wonder if some of current 5 person 1br (like akv) would fit 6. I’m also biased in thinking of the 6 as 2 adults and 4 kids so my mind gets creative cramming the kids in lol.

Most of the 1BRs that sleep 5 could be converted to 6 with the addition of a sleeper chair to the master bedroom.
But I just don't think that would add broad value to units. Immediate families of 6 are definitely a small minority in the US. And with combined families, extended families, etc... that just wouldn't be a great arrangement, with 3+3 sleeping, only 1 bathroom.

Though I don't expect it to happen, they could increase the value of the one and two bedroom units (thereby increasing their demand) by adding perks. For example, Grand Villas allow you to purchase extra fastpasses (if this ever returns). They could add a perk to 1 and 2bedroom bookings. Something that would make sense to me: Offering 10% off purchase of a dining plan.
My logic: Since 1 and 2 bedroom+ units come with full kitchen, those are people less likely to ordinarily purchase a dining plan. And they are less likely to maximize the benefit of a dining plan. So giving them a nudge to purchase the dining plan would probably be a good revenue driver for Disney, while also giving people a reason to upsize their DVC booking.
Now, I do NOT expect anything like this to happen. But it would be a pretty good idea.

 

[AliceIn]

Increasing the cost of poly studios and CCV non cabin rooms might cause a big outrage, I don't think they'll want to attempt that again, not now they know there are people ready to check the new point charts the second they're published.

Note that DVC said the 2020 point charts were completely legal but they rolled them back because of members feedback.
They said around 2 dozens people complained, I'll let you judge what are the chances that a Corporation like Disney would roll back a new policy that would grant them millions every year just because 24 people complained.

We bought DVC specifically for studio rooms. I own at Poly, and have zero interest in the bungalows. I don't like how they are set up over the water, and I don't think we would stay in one even if it were cheaper. I would be really ticked off if they tried raising the rates on the studios and lowering the bungalows. It is just not worth it. Studios at Poly are on the pricier side, so I don't want to see them go any higher.

I don't know that I have ever seen anybody staying at the bungalows. They always look pretty deserted.

 

[BillPA]

We bought DVC specifically for studio rooms. I own at Poly, and have zero interest in the bungalows. I don't like how they are set up over the water, and I don't think we would stay in one even if it were cheaper. I would be really ticked off if they tried raising the rates on the studios and lowering the bungalows. It is just not worth it. Studios at Poly are on the pricier side, so I don't want to see them go any higher.

I don't know that I have ever seen anybody staying at the bungalows. They always look pretty deserted.


Get ready to be ticked off!!!

 

[Sandisw]

Most of the 1BRs that sleep 5 could be converted to 6 with the addition of a sleeper chair to the master bedroom.
But I just don't think that would add broad value to units. Immediate families of 6 are definitely a small minority in the US. And with combined families, extended families, etc... that just wouldn't be a great arrangement, with 3+3 sleeping, only 1 bathroom.

Though I don't expect it to happen, they could increase the value of the one and two bedroom units (thereby increasing their demand) by adding perks. For example, Grand Villas allow you to purchase extra fastpasses (if this ever returns). They could add a perk to 1 and 2bedroom bookings. Something that would make sense to me: Offering 10% off purchase of a dining plan.
My logic: Since 1 and 2 bedroom+ units come with full kitchen, those are people less likely to ordinarily purchase a dining plan. And they are less likely to maximize the benefit of a dining plan. So giving them a nudge to purchase the dining plan would probably be a good revenue driver for Disney, while also giving people a reason to upsize their DVC booking.
Now, I do NOT expect anything like this to happen. But it would be a pretty good idea.

I will say that if there was ever a time when another division might want to increase revenue, this is it. So, getting DVCM to make a deal for dining plan discount, etc. could happen...if it were to come back.

However, my skeptical side says those types of perks wouldn’t be negotiated for all members, or attached to room bookings, but rather to add to blue card memberships so DVD can sell more points,

Just hoping we see the point charts sooner rather than later.

 

[havoc315]

I will say that if there was ever a time when another division might want to increase revenue, this is it. So, getting DVCM to make a deal for dining plan discount, etc. could happen...if it were to come back.

However, my skeptical side says those types of perks wouldn’t be negotiated for all members, or attached to room bookings, but rather to add to blue card memberships so DVD can sell more points,

Just hoping we see the point charts sooner rather than later.

Agreed... More likely to be a blue card perk than a room-attached perk.

Honestly, wonder if anyone in Disney financial modeling has run the numbers:
- What percentage of regular resort guests book the dining plan
- What percentage of DVC guests book the dining plan (it is a lower percentage than regular guests? Probably yes, since DVC guests have kitchens, get dining discounts without the dining plan).
-To what extent would a small discount on the dining plan (or a dining plan designed exclusively for DVC) increase dining plan purchases among DVC
-And to what extent would the reduced price + increased purchasing increase/decrease profits overall. (if they offer a discount, but it doesn't meaningfully increase Dining plan purchasing, than it would be a loss for Disney. But if a 10% discount leads to a 20% increase in dining plan purchasing, probably be profitable).

My guess, if they actually ran the numbers, it would be profitable for Disney. ...

And the more I think about it, Disney could easily customize a dining plan just for DVC members, and sell it as a nice blue-card perk. And have it not cost Disney a penny ultimately. (They make money on guests that buy dining plans, they don't lose money when they sell a plan.)

 

[fumanchu2488]

Agreed... More likely to be a blue card perk than a room-attached perk.

Honestly, wonder if anyone in Disney financial modeling has run the numbers:
- What percentage of regular resort guests book the dining plan
- What percentage of DVC guests book the dining plan (it is a lower percentage than regular guests? Probably yes, since DVC guests have kitchens, get dining discounts without the dining plan).
-To what extent would a small discount on the dining plan (or a dining plan designed exclusively for DVC) increase dining plan purchases among DVC
-And to what extent would the reduced price + increased purchasing increase/decrease profits overall. (if they offer a discount, but it doesn't meaningfully increase Dining plan purchasing, than it would be a loss for Disney. But if a 10% discount leads to a 20% increase in dining plan purchasing, probably be profitable).

My guess, if they actually ran the numbers, it would be profitable for Disney. ...

And the more I think about it, Disney could easily customize a dining plan just for DVC members, and sell it as a nice blue-card perk. And have it not cost Disney a penny ultimately. (They make money on guests that buy dining plans, they don't lose money when they sell a plan.)

Getting off topic here, but I always wondered how the dining plan worked between Disney and their vendors. My understanding is that some of the restaurants are run by third parties. How does the profit from food and drink sales get distributed? I am assuming these places just 'rent' real estate from Disney.

In that case, I would assume they are reimbursed by Disney when people use the Dining Plan. At that rate, doesn't Disney have to cover expenses for 'free dining' out of some other pocket (i.e. room reservations)? The issue with DVC is that there is no other 'pocket' to steal from as we do not pay for rooms and our maintenance fees would never cover this. I could see that with the reduction in marketing expenditure with no moonlight magic, they offer discounted dining plans for DVC members in lieu of those events. That would be something to consider from a blue card member. What is more desirable: moonlight magic events or the ability to purchase a special low priced dining plan with the blue card?

Now back to regular programming. Arghhhh point charts!!!!!

 

[sethschroeder]

What is more desirable: moonlight magic events or the ability to purchase a special low priced dining plan with the blue card?

The better benefit is the dining plan simply because its available 365 (well not right now because of COVID). With Moonlight its like 10 nights out of the year and thats it.

I could see moonlight being okay if they had it every single week of the year so everyone who stays a week has possible access. They could limit the first 24 hours of reservations to first timers every year. So you get priority the first time you book Moonlight but the 2/3/4/5th time you have to wait for the 1st timers of the year to have first crack.

Doubtful they can swing the cost though. Anything available year round is going to be better.

 

[havoc315]

Getting off topic here, but I always wondered how the dining plan worked between Disney and their vendors. My understanding is that some of the restaurants are run by third parties. How does the profit from food and drink sales get distributed? I am assuming these places just 'rent' real estate from Disney.

In that case, I would assume they are reimbursed by Disney when people use the Dining Plan. At that rate, doesn't Disney have to cover expenses for 'free dining' out of some other pocket (i.e. room reservations)? The issue with DVC is that there is no other 'pocket' to steal from as we do not pay for rooms and our maintenance fees would never cover this. I could see that with the reduction in marketing expenditure with no moonlight magic, they offer discounted dining plans for DVC members in lieu of those events. That would be something to consider from a blue card member. What is more desirable: moonlight magic events or the ability to purchase a special low priced dining plan with the blue card?

Now back to regular programming. Arghhhh point charts!!!!!

No “pocket” necessary to steal from.
3rd party restaurants get reimbursed at a flat rate every time someone redeems a dining credit.
Regular dining plan is $79
Reimbursement is only something like $30 for a table credit, $15 for a quick service credit.
Not even sure if there are 3rd party snack vendors, but even if they reimburse at $4 per snack... They still have a lot of wiggle room to discount with no loss.

Of course, they could also customize a brand new dining plan just for DVC.
So not even a discount, merely a “unique” perk. For example, a dining plan that solely includes 1 table service meal and 1 snack per day, for $42 per night.

 

[fumanchu2488]

No “pocket” necessary to steal from.
3rd party restaurants get reimbursed at a flat rate every time someone redeems a dining credit.
Regular dining plan is $79
Reimbursement is only something like $30 for a table credit, $15 for a quick service credit.
Not even sure if there are 3rd party snack vendors, but even if they reimburse at $4 per snack... They still have a lot of wiggle room to discount with no loss.

Of course, they could also customize a brand new dining plan just for DVC.
So not even a discount, merely a “unique” perk. For example, a dining plan that solely includes 1 table service meal and 1 snack per day, for $42 per night.

My point was comparing to the dining plan offered for cash reservations. Specifically when they offer ‘free dining’ or discounted dining, they are paying those restaurants and not charging guests. With cash reservations they are covering cost from the sum of the trip when booked, including the room. Otherwise we are entitled to the same offer for dining plans as those guests.

since there is no room or other cost for DVC to pull from, any discount would have to come from their marketing dollars as a result of direct sales like moonlight magic. Or, to your point, they would have to develop a completely new dining plan for DVC members.

 

[havoc315]

My point was comparing to the dining plan offered for cash reservations. Specifically when they offer ‘free dining’ or discounted dining, they are paying those restaurants and not charging guests. With cash reservations they are covering cost from the sum of the trip when booked, including the room. Otherwise we are entitled to the same offer for dining plans as those guests.

since there is no room or other cost for DVC to pull from, any discount would have to come from their marketing dollars as a result of direct sales like moonlight magic. Or, to your point, they would have to develop a completely new dining plan for DVC members.

You’re missing the point. It’s zero cost to Disney, it’s actually profitable for Disney.
It’s no different than when ShopDisney sells “exclusive DVC merchandise.”

A dining plan costs Disney about $20-$40... they sell it to cash guests fir $78, and turn $38 to $58 in profit each time they sell a plan.
Now, fewer DVC members buy the plan, since they kitchens.
So imagine, only 10 DVC guests(or 1000) buy the full price dining plan. Disney is making $380-580 profit.

Now imagine they off a 10% discount to DVC members. You can book the dining plan for $70 per night. Thanks to the discount, they now sell 20 dining plans instead of 10.
Now they are “only” making $30-50 in profit from each person. But since they doubled the sales, their profit is now $600-$1000!!
In addition, it becomes a blue card perk which drives more direct sales, $$$ for Disney.

So absolutely no cost to Disney. No need to take the money from anywhere. Disney is making a profit from the whole exchange.

Now, this math makes a couple assumptions. And as I said originally, a Disney number cruncher would have to do the math.
It assumes:
1. DVC guests are less likely to buy the dining plan than deluxe cash guests.
2. A modest discount would show a fairly significant increase in dining plan purchases.

I suspect both those assumptions are true.

 

[fumanchu2488]

You’re missing the point. It’s zero cost to Disney, it’s actually profitable for Disney.
It’s no different than when ShopDisney sells “exclusive DVC merchandise.”

A dining plan costs Disney about $20-$40... they sell it to cash guests fir $78, and turn $38 to $58 in profit each time they sell a plan.
Now, fewer DVC members buy the plan, since they kitchens.
So imagine, only 10 DVC guests(or 1000) buy the full price dining plan. Disney is making $380-580 profit.

Now imagine they off a 10% discount to DVC members. You can book the dining plan for $70 per night. Thanks to the discount, they now sell 20 dining plans instead of 10.
Now they are “only” making $30-50 in profit from each person. But since they doubled the sales, their profit is now $600-$1000!!
In addition, it becomes a blue card perk which drives more direct sales, $$$ for Disney.

So absolutely no cost to Disney. No need to take the money from anywhere. Disney is making a profit from the whole exchange.

Now, this math makes a couple assumptions. And as I said originally, a Disney number cruncher would have to do the math.
It assumes:
1. DVC guests are less likely to buy the dining plan than deluxe cash guests.
2. A modest discount would show a fairly significant increase in dining plan purchases.

I suspect both those assumptions are true.

Where did you get the cost to Disney for a dining plan?

Your scenario is correct if your numbers are correct. But my understanding from a CM is that they offer the Dining Plan to have people spend money at the park and that if (big of) people use it to the full value Disney has very little profit. Where they make their money is when people don’t use all the credits (or they don’t drink/select cheaper items). It is more a revenue generator than a profit generator.

 

[Sandisw]

Let’s try to get back on topic of the point charts. We can start a new discussion about perks that might make booking different size rooms more attractive.

Thanks all!

 

[fumanchu2488]

Back to the point chart discussion, my thought on demand is a good chicken or egg question. Do DVC members like traveling in October, December and other popular months because the points are cheap or are the points cheaper to force people to go those times? I guess you would have to go back 20 years to see how far points shifted over that time for certain weeks.

 

[havoc315]

Where did you get the cost to Disney for a dining plan?

Your scenario is correct if your numbers are correct. But my understanding from a CM is that they offer the Dining Plan to have people spend money at the park and that if (big of) people use it to the full value Disney has very little profit. Where they make their money is when people don’t use all the credits (or they don’t drink/select cheaper items). It is more a revenue generator than a profit generator.

I assure you, that’s not true. It’a a huge profit driver.
It takes people who would normally only spend $50 per day in dining, gives them a bit extra soda, ice cream... and gets them to spend $80 instead, while believing they are saving money.

All the food at Disney is hugely marked up. Giving a few dollars off with the dining plan only gets people to spend more than they would otherwise spend, driving up their profits.
I’ve been analyzing the dining plans for years.

Look at it this way, if the dining plan was really costing Disney anything close to $80 per person per night, really think they would ever give it away free??
So a family of 4 can book a $400 per night room, and get a discount of $320 per night!
The reason why Disney can give away this massive $320 per night discount many nights, every year.. is because the Discount doesn't cost them anything close to $320. The discount costs Disney something more like $25 per person, per night.

Free dining works like this...
Disney has food and service costs for a person for a day of $20. But they jack the prices up to $90. So if you buy an $80 dining plan, you feel like you saved $10! And if they give you the dining plan for "free," then you feel like you saved $80!!!! When you really only saved $20.

 

[Sandisw]

Back to the point chart discussion, my thought on demand is a good chicken or egg question. Do DVC members like traveling in October, December and other popular months because the points are cheap or are the points cheaper to force people to go those times? I guess you would have to go back 20 years to see how far points shifted over that time for certain weeks.

From what I understand, when OKW was built...the only DVC...the point charts and seasons were based off typical cash demand and rates.

So, the fall being lower was a way to get DVC owners to travel during times that were typically less busy.

Fast forward to today and the changes by WDPR to making traveling during the fall more attractive, makes DVC in even more popular so the lower point charts have done their job...just to well.

 

[cometdad2010]

Dumb question on point charts... some of the more long-term members may know this offhand... have the point charts ever been unchanged year-to-year? We're recent resale purchasers (closed in October, yay!) and haven't been through a point change yet, though we certainly expected them.

 

[sethschroeder]

Dumb question on point charts... some of the more long-term members may know this offhand... have the point charts ever been unchanged year-to-year? We're recent resale purchasers (closed in October, yay!) and haven't been through a point change yet, though we certainly expected them.

Here is the 2010 charts:
https://www.disboards.com/threads/jpgs-of-pulled-2010-point-charts.2067216/
2019:
https://vacatia.com/dvc-points-charts-2019
You can see very little changes. I know at one point they changed point requirement difference between weekends and weekdays. But nothing really drastic like last year. It why some people were upset about bigger changes and others were saying "finally" it seemed.