Can you have compassion for someone yet still hold them responsible?

[kdonnel]

Sounds like your struggles were your parents’ fault. It appears you have not had any struggles as an adult b/c of your personal responsibility.

Correct.

I guess you could see me like a militant ex smoker. My parents woes definitely influenced my personal choices.

I saw first hand the effect of poor financial planning.

I see extreme value in teaching budgeting and money management to all ages.

 

[kdonnel]

Sounds like somebody holds a lot of anger and judgement and resentment, from back when they were 10 years old....

Why do you view being prepared in such a negative manner?

So is FEMA staffed by a bunch of angry, judgmental, resentful, employees because their job is all about preparation?

P.S. I maintain a couple weeks of bottled water and food on hand at all times. What sort of abomination applies there?

 

[kdonnel]

To the bolded. There definitely has to be a balance, but my dad saved & saved & denied himself many experiences. Well, when he got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer at 62 & died 3 weeks after, his biggest regrets were things he didn’t get to do. It still breaks my heart.

My father made it 69 before ampullary pancreatic cancer took him.

Of course there has to be balance but that is not an excuse to life like their is no tomorrow.

 

[DopeyDame]

Got it. That's a lot of random people to judge.

Right? It must be super-exhausting.

 

[jiminyC_fan]

Why do you view being prepared in such a negative manner?

Why don't you see that you are being judgmental and lack compassion for those less fortunate than you?

 

[luvsJack]

Why do you view being prepared in such a negative manner?

So is FEMA staffed by a bunch of angry, judgmental, resentful, employees because their job is all about preparation?

P.S. I maintain a couple weeks of bottled water and food on hand at all times. What sort of abomination applies there?

No one is seeing being prepared as negative. Not one person has said people should not be prepared for emergencies. But you are judging people without knowing their circumstance.

I keep extra food and water during hurricane season. But if my neighbor needed some of it when a hurricane hit, I would share and I darn sure wouldn't say "oh well, you should have been prepared". Because its just not the right thing to do.

 

[kdonnel]

When do you feel a person has "enough" savings to start enjoying some of their income at the time they make it?

$0

I started my first job out of college making $20,500 in 1994. The company I worked for had a 401k and if I contributed 6% they would add an additional 3%. So from day one I put 6% in the 401k. I never saw that money, never got used to making it, never got used to spending it.

The company also offered an employee stock purchase program. For as little as $25 a pay period you could buy company stock and get an immediate 50% match. So if you put in $25, you got $37.50 in stock that you only had to hold for 30 days before selling. Yet less then 10% of employees participated with the number one reason I can't afford that. How can you not afford a 50% return on your investment in 30 days?

I also setup a $50 a month automatic transfer from checking to savings.

At the start I had $0 in savings.

In the mean time my wife and I used the stock purchase money to fund our first post honeymoon vacation.

We started with $0 in savings, started saving, and enjoyed our money from day 1.

 

[kdonnel]

No one is seeing being prepared as negative. Not one person has said people should not be prepared for emergencies. But you are judging people without knowing their circumstance.

I keep extra food and water during hurricane season. But if my neighbor needed some of it when a hurricane hit, I would share and I darn sure wouldn't say "oh well, you should have been prepared". Because its just not the right thing to do.

Again you are really misunderstanding my point.

My point is that because of the abysmal money management skills of the average American employee, most of the federal works effected are feeling worse effects then necessary.

That is it.

 

[skyblue17]

$0

I started my first job out of college making $20,500 in 1994. The company I worked for had a 401k and if I contributed 6% they would add an additional 3%. So from day one I put 6% in the 401k. I never saw that money, never got used to making it, never got used to spending it.

The company also offered an employee stock purchase program. For as little as $25 a pay period you could buy company stock and get an immediate 50% match. So if you put in $25, you got $37.50 in stock that you only had to hold for 30 days before selling. Yet less then 10% of employees participated with the number one reason I can't afford that. How can you not afford a 50% return on your investment in 30 days?

I also setup a $50 a month automatic transfer from checking to savings.

At the start I had $0 in savings.

In the mean time my wife and I used to stock purchase money to fund our first post honeymoon vacation.

We started with $0 in savings, started saving, and enjoyed out money from day 1.

This is fantastic for you but it sounds like you started your adult life without any debt? Or you're just leaving out how you paid back student loans and credit card bills on top of doing all this additional saving on top of paying for living expenses? Also, if you were married immediately after college, and your spouse worked, that means you were working with two incomes out of the gate?

 

[kdonnel]

This is fantastic for you but it sounds like you started your adult life without any debt? Or you're just leaving out how you paid back student loans and credit card bills on top of doing all this additional saving on top of paying for living expenses? Also, if you were married immediately after college, and your spouse worked, that means you were working with two incomes out of the gate?

I graduated with $4800 in student loan debt that was slowly paid off using a budget.

I did not have credit card debt because I did not spend more then I made.

From day one I made a budget and we stuck to it. That budget allowed us to live within our means.

I did get married right out of college and my spouse did not work.

There is nothing magical about a budget.

 

[DopeyDame]

Again you are really misunderstanding my point.

My point is that because of the abysmal money management skills of the average American employee, most of the federal works effected are feeling worse effects then necessary.

That is it.

I think a lot of us must be missing the point.
If you could give us some specific examples or details that support your assertion that most of the federal workers are feeling worse effects then necessary, it might help.

Because as I said above, even those of us with recommended savings still think this *sucks*. I did everything you said - started my 401k on day one, put money into savings, etc. (I'm super boring. I've literally worked for one company my entire adult life.) And I'm getting paid right now, since my company is floating the money to continue paying the employees, at least for the next few weeks.

But still... I'm feeling the effects.
So what's your point? That I shouldn't be stressed? That I should be happy at the prospect of changing my year's plans? That I shouldn't be worried about my coworkers who work in the cafeteria and clean my floors, and aren't getting paid and won't be paid back?

 

[gwynne]

Again you are really misunderstanding my point.

My point is that because of the abysmal money management skills of the average American employee, most of the federal works effected are feeling worse effects then necessary.

That is it.

I think there is a boatload of personal bias in your statement about federal employees.
They have every right to expect to be paid on time.

 

[kdonnel]

So what's your point?

My point is that because of the abysmal money management skills of the average American employee, most of the federal workers effected are feeling worse effects then necessary.

That is it.

I am not saying you shouldn't be stressed. I am not saying that you shouldn't be unhappy. Others on this board seem to be putting much more words in my mouth then I have typed.

 

[skyblue17]

I graduated with $4800 in student loan debt that was slowly paid off using a budget.

I did not have credit card debt because I did not spend more then I made.

From day one I made a budget and we stuck to it. That budget allowed us to live within our means.

I did get married right out of college and my spouse did not work.

There is nothing magical about a budget.

Again, no one is saying there is something "magical" about budget, I just find that even in your example here, you are using your own specifics as if that's the starting point for everyone.

 

[DopeyDame]

Correct.

I guess you could see me like a militant ex smoker. My parents woes definitely influenced my personal choices.

I saw first hand the effect of poor financial planning.

I see extreme value in teaching budgeting and money management to all ages.

I think it might help see everyone else's perspective if you take this analogy one step further...
You are like a militant ex smoker who quits smoking and then goes to Sloane Kettering's lunch cancer wing and hands out anti-nicotine literature.
There is clearly nothing wrong with encouraging people to stop smoking, just as there's nothing wrong with teaching money management. But there's a time and place for everything.

 

[kdonnel]

I think there is a boatload of personal bias in your statement about federal employees.
They have every right to expect to be paid on time.

When have I said they don't?

Everyone keeps putting additional words in my mouth I did not type.

I am trying to highlight how poorly the average American (not just federal employee) manages their money.

https://money.cnn.com/2016/10/24/pf/financial-mistake-budget/index.html
https://nypost.com/2018/01/18/americans-are-clueless-when-it-comes-to-personal-finance/
https://news.gallup.com/poll/162872/one-three-americans-prepare-detailed-household-budget.aspx
https://money.usnews.com/money/pers...cial-statistics-and-how-to-avoid-becoming-one

 

[kdonnel]

But there's a time and place for everything.

When you have everyone's attention, it is a great time.

As Rahm Emanuel said, "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what i mean by that it is an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before"

While he is a polarizing political figure it is a powerful statement.

While people are intimately focused on their finances, now is the time to try to influence them to make positive changes.

 

[Kitty 34]

I just wonder why this thread continues...........OP what do you want us all to say??

 

[wvjules]

Well, we can't all be kdonnel.

 

[gillep]

People seem to be twisting my belief that you should prepare and be held accountable if you don't for a complete lack of understanding.

It is a fact that many of those currently effected by the shutdown could be much better prepared having been taught better money management skills.

The majority of government workers are the middle class, they are not living below the poverty line, but many are living above their middle class means.

Why? Because they have not been taught the skills necessary to properly manage money.

http://press.careerbuilder.com/2017...Workers-According-to-New-CareerBuilder-Survey
A lot of people is 78% of people in America live pay check to pay check.

ONE way to start solving that problem is to start teaching people how to manage their money. Schools need to teach more real life money management skills. How to set a budget, how to stick to that budget, how to balance a checking account, etc. That is not the only way the problem will be solved but it will certainly help.

Poor money management skills are not limited to those living in poverty. From the article I linked:


Sure some of them will have extenuating circumstances but for the majority, they just suck at managing their money.

From the same survey:


The average American does not have the skills necessary to properly set a budget and stick to it. I think that is a shame and that the education system should tackle the problem.

That does not mean I don't have empathy for those suffering.

[/QUOTE]

For many people those numbers quoted in your article seem large, but for others they simply are not, according to this article (and many others like it, but I was trying to find one without a paywall): https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44725026

'In San Francisco and nearby San Mateo and Marin Counties it said $117,400 for a family of four was "low income", while $73,300 (£54,900) was "very low income" - the highest figures anywhere in the country.'

Many people live in places where salaries that look quite large do not get you very far, it is ridiculous to not take things like this into consideration when looking at articles like the one you are referencing. It isn't always about not knowing how to manage money, more education, and living above ones means when you live in some of these high cost of living areas. I have lived in multiple large cities around the U.S. and the difference in COL between them has been quite eye opening, and not something I even fully understood until I was actually living it and seeing how our take home pay was impacted.