Can you have compassion for someone yet still hold them responsible?

[tinkerdorabelle]

And the heading of this "Can you be Compassionate..." part is questionable, ive seen ops posts. This is all about false info propaganda that anyone and all that struggle are lazy, irresponsible or living above their means. And to say that about shutdown s beyond words. Yes each would be on individual basis but that is complete Ignorance and lacks any compassion. And they actually said in other thread that makes them morally superior lol

 

[mousefan73]

Ironically the exact wording of the bolded went through my mind regarding this discussion. I know a few people with this very same blindspot, convinced they are the sole architects of their success. A dangerous personality type to run across in positions of authority.

I work unfortunately with quite a few of these.

 

[LSUmiss]

So the standard for determining responsible versus irresponsible financial preparation is -- I did things this way. Things turned out well. I have been able to build a sold financial cushion, therefore everyone has the same opportunity and should be able to achieve the same.

I don't say this blithely or with any ill intent, but I wonder how things would have shifted in OP's bulletproof lifestyle if he had been diagnosed with muscular dystrophy, cancer or ALS in 2002 and been unable to work going forward? Would his spouse have been able to pick right up, enter the work world and be able to take up the position as family breadwinner with no economic fallout? Don't forget that OP might have required assistance at home for daily living and there might have been children at the time who needed childcare as well. Both are incredibly expensive prospects on their own -- or require a spouse to remain at home to be the caregiver. I've seen cases where something like that happened to fiscally responsible people who found their entire world turned upside down and disrupted like someone shook a snowglobe. Despite their diligent efforts people in similar situations face economic ruin more often than not.

Simply because things have seemingly come up roses for someone who believes they've figured out all the angles and followed a certain plan does not mean that path will work for anyone else -- or that the roses won't suddenly be blighted by something completely unexpected, not reasonably anticipated and not the fault of the person suffering the outcome.

Not trying to take the conversation in another direction but I think it's kind of ironic that the OP made the decision, very early on, that his spouse would not work. To me (who also strives for financial stability), that is one of the biggest "risky behaviors" out there. Others have laid out very good scenarios here of what happens when the family breadwinner gets struck down with something disabling. The risk to a non-working spouse, IMO, is always very high and as a family unit you are always much closer to the brink of financial tragedy. I get that people make that risk/benefit decision. I just find it funny that the OP is so risk adverse that they'd actually be comfortable with only one wage earner. That was something I was never comfortable with.

DH’s father died unexpectedly when he was 11 years old. Mom had no education & no work skills & then 2 kids to raise alone. Oh and they had life insurance but wasn’t able to cash in on it when the time came (I forgot the exact reason, but their agent went to prison for embezzlement). So after they went through their savings, she was eventually able to get a very low paying job & they got by as best they could with that & social security payments. So like you said, kdonnel’s decision could have ended up in this nightmare situation just as easily but didn’t b/c of LUCK not preparation.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I have a big problem with the whole premise that a man should desire and make the decision that his wife should/would not work.
That is just as bad as the whole sanctimonious judgement and feeling personally obligated to whole others 'responsible'.
But, hey, that is a whole different thread/topic!!!

 

[cabanafrau]

I have a big problem with the whole premise that a man should desire and make the decision that his wife should/would not work.
That is just as bad as the whole sanctimonious judgement and feeling personally obligated to whole others 'responsible'.
But, hey, that is a whole different thread/topic!!!

I don't know that it was said he made the decision his wife should/would not work without her input and independent agreement.

 

[Owlpost23]

I don't know that it was said he made the decision his wife should/would not work without her input and independent agreement.

And she's crazy,because what if he ups and leaves her?Poor planning on her part!

 

[cabanafrau]

And she's crazy,because what if he ups and leaves her?Poor planning on her part!

I merely attempted to clarify what I believe was stated and we therefore know about the situation. I made no judgment as to the way two adults choose to conduct their lives and left my own opinion out of it.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I haven't like, researched, and found any quotes...
Doesn't matter.
These are just ongoing comments based on what is supposed to be something he said about his wife working....
That is fair game.
If it is true that he thought that his wife shouldn't work, didn't want her to work... then that would be my thought/opinion.

The whole topic of this thread is somebody who thinks people should be held accountable for their life decisions. And, when that should, or should not, apply.

And, yes... If he is the only, or main, financial provider, and something happened to him, or they were to separate... Then, yes, by the same train of thought, that would be BAD PLANNING... and by golly somebody should be 'held responsible'.

 

[Sarah'sMomfrom PA]

Boy OP seems like you really hate/hated your parents for making you homeless for 7 weeks when you were 10. If you think that everyone could change the circumstances that they live in, why didn't you get a paper route at 10 and contribute to the family finances and maybe you could have straightened out your parents bad financial habits. Thank God that your dad died at 69 because I shutter to think that if he lived with the cancer and needed your help, you would have blamed him for getting cancer because of all the bad decisions that he made. My mom died at 61 years old and never lived to see or spend her retirement and she spent money like a drunken sailor but if my mom was still alive 30 years later, and didn't have a penny to her name, you can bet that I would help her out and just be glad that I had my mom.

One never knows the circumstances that life will deal them but I am very glad OP that you have your cards in order and I just hope that you never need anyone to show you compassion or empathy...ever hear the expression, walk a mile in my shoes??? May God bless you and your family OP...you need all the blessings you can get.

The federal employees who are not getting paid have my sympathy and compassion. I can't imagine not having a paycheck when the citizens/government expect you to show up for work and then we don't pay you.

 

[gina2000]

$0

I started my first job out of college making $20,500 in 1994. The company I worked for had a 401k and if I contributed 6% they would add an additional 3%. So from day one I put 6% in the 401k. I never saw that money, never got used to making it, never got used to spending it.

The company also offered an employee stock purchase program. For as little as $25 a pay period you could buy company stock and get an immediate 50% match. So if you put in $25, you got $37.50 in stock that you only had to hold for 30 days before selling. Yet less then 10% of employees participated with the number one reason I can't afford that. How can you not afford a 50% return on your investment in 30 days?

I also setup a $50 a month automatic transfer from checking to savings.

At the start I had $0 in savings.

In the mean time my wife and I used the stock purchase money to fund our first post honeymoon vacation.

We started with $0 in savings, started saving, and enjoyed our money from day 1.

Hmmmm.....selling stock to fund a vacation? No, not a responsible, long term planning action.

And if it was sold under one year......short term capital gains tax is murderous.

Just sayin......

Consider how lucky you've been. Get down on your knees and acknowledge the fact that you were born with advantages and haven't been hit with life's disasters. We all wish for security. We don't all get it.