Can you have compassion for someone yet still hold them responsible?

[LSUmiss]

Water went over the levies here during the 1951 flood. It happens. It led to life-altering changes between stockyards being ruined and never coming back, it ultimately led to the relocation of what would become our airport, etc. Oh there's still low-lying areas here that consistently get flooded when enough water occurs--businesses impacted and whatnot. But they did learn some things as what measures they took helped when the 1993 flood occurred. Tornadoes are a way of life here and we have felt earthquakes though none have been that close to us, etc.

On the other hand I do get what the poster is saying..to an extent.. You've got the fire chief in CA strongly recommending that people not be allowed to build in high risk areas--it didn't work as a 19,000 home area was approved in a high and very high fire zone. Even with some measures to help that's when a fire has already occurred rather than keeping people out of those areas.

IDK I don't think it's an all or nothing thing. I live here in an area with risks too. But I do think there are just some areas that straddle the line of "should we really be here" and in that sense as climates change and adjust that's a moving target.

But, there are differences living in high risk areas like on the actual coast that’s really not populated & a 300 yr old city full of ppl. I get if you are affected by a disaster yr after yr, you should do something. But, my area of NOLA has never flooded...not for Katrina, Betsy, Camille etc. But, I pay flood insurance b/c of the area. We also have pumps & levees to keep us safe during major storms. But, according to the pp, I shouldn’t live here.

 

[Southernmiss]

But, there are differences living in high risk areas like on the actual coast that’s really not populated & a 300 yr old city full of ppl. I get if you are affected by a disaster yr after yr, you should do something. But, my area of NOLA has never flooded...not for Katrina, Betsy, Camille etc. But, I pay flood insurance b/c of the area. We also have pumps & levees to keep us safe during major storms. But, according to the pp, I shouldn0’t live here.

And now there's the real actions from people 1000s of miles away that is causing erosion of the coast of Louisiana at the rate of a football field an hour. Those who live there find that water is rising and permanently submerging their family and tribal lands. Most all have moved as the first climate change forced migration.

 

[LSUmiss]

THIS, a thousand times.

Whether or not someone has prepared in advance for tragedy/difficulty is irrelevant to whether or not one should show them compassion when they suffer. Perhaps building the relationship through compassion will open the door for a learning opportunity and the person suffering will pick up some valuable tools to help them weather the storms better - but that will NEVER happen if the prevailing attitude is "you should have prepared better and didn't learn the skills you should have".

Compassion and empathy are meeting people where they are, not bereating them for where you THINK they should be.

I’m a social worker. This is social work 101...always meet the client where THEY are.

 

[mnrose]

Well, then your infrastructure better get an upgrade b/c it seems like 1/2 the country will need to move to whatever utopia you live in.

And the 3rd largest river in the world runs through the middle of the country AND provides many goods & commodities for the rest of the country. So, you need those ppl to live & work in those areas. Where are the millions of ppl who live in the areas supposed to move to???

What about tornados in the Midwest, earthquakes on the west coast...I think most of the country will need to move to wherever you live then.

I think it’s funny you mention hubris. How arrogant it is to believe that ppl should live where you deem appropriate!

And, that river has been heavily engineered to keep it from flooding....all the way up and down. It's not like people who live near that river are "naturally" safe. LOL. Plus, I will point out that one of the most dangerous fault lines in the country is in New Madrid Missouri, because people there have done little to engineer the structures for the inevitable slippage on that fault line. At least in California, houses are largely designed and built to handle earthquakes....especially anything built or retrofit in the last 20 years. First thing we did when we bought a home north of San Francisco was retrofit it against the "average" California earthquake. I'm not dumb enough to believe it will handle something in excess of a 8.0, but I've done what I rationally can do.

 

[LSUmiss]

I was homeless for 7 weeks when I was 10.

Why? Because my parents were really bad at managing their money.

I have had struggles but that is not a necessary requirement to believe that people generally are responsible for their economic preparedness.

Sounds like your struggles were your parents’ fault. It appears you have not had any struggles as an adult b/c of your personal responsibility.

 

[LSUmiss]

It sounds like you had a scary time as a kid and have concentrated your efforts on never finding yourself in the same position again. But I think that scary time may be clouding your feelings a little. Sure, there are a lot of people in financial trouble because they spend above their means. But I think there are more who simply don't have those means in the first place.



So, 78% of people are living paycheck to paycheck, but the subset making decent money hardly sounds like the majority to me. Most of that 78% are in the "less than 50,000 range" and I know I would have a hard time saving on that income.



Internet connection / Mobile device - I do think many people could spend less here, but it is becoming harder and harder to do things in today's world without an internet connection at all. When my teen was trying to get a part-time job last summer, one place actually had a paper application. Everywhere else required him to apply on line.

Driving - Again, some places have great public transportation, but in others you really need to drive to have a job. (And the answer isn't just to simply "move" either.) Of course, I don't think everyone needs to buy the fanciest car available!

Pets - I can see why adopting new pets when you can't afford it isn't a wise decision, but I certainly wouldn't turn the pets I have out on the street if I had a financial reversal. They're already part of my family.

Education - So now, if someone is poor, we don't want them to spend money on the very thing that may lift them out of poverty?

Cable / Going out to eat / Traveling / Buying gifts for people / Alcohol - These, I'll give you...to a point, at least. I expect many people do overspend on these items - but I believe in balance, too. My mom died of cancer in her 50s. If she had spent her whole life giving up all these things to save for a retirement she never got to enjoy, she'd certainly have regretted it. I'm not saying we should all buy all these things all the time, but I think there's a point where it's OK to balance saving and living your life.

When do you feel a person has "enough" savings to start enjoying some of their income at the time they make it?



These parts of your post I do agree with quite a bit. My DS had one budget project (in an elective, at that) and it scared the you-know-what out of him - because he doesn't really remember the time in our lives when were on a strict budget, and couldn't figure out how he'd have the things we do now starting out.

After laughing (just a little) I explained to him about what he missed, and that he'd survive. But it got me thinking: when we were in that place in our lives, so were most of the people we looked to for comparison. It's not like that for young people today, who compare themselves to everyone on social media. I think that's one of the main reasons people who do have enough to save, don't. They see the "baseline" as a lot higher, and not having things is way more "lonely" than it used to be.

To the bolded. There definitely has to be a balance, but my dad saved & saved & denied himself many experiences. Well, when he got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer at 62 & died 3 weeks after, his biggest regrets were things he didn’t get to do. It still breaks my heart.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But, there are differences living in high risk areas like on the actual coast that’s really not populated & a 300 yr old city full of ppl. I get if you are affected by a disaster yr after yr, you should do something. But, my area of NOLA has never flooded...not for Katrina, Betsy, Camille etc. But, I pay flood insurance b/c of the area. We also have pumps & levees to keep us safe during major storms. But, according to the pp, I shouldn’t live here.

Yeah but while a lot of people talk about NOLA there are..other places out there. Speaking towards NOLA it's position makes it vunerable regardless of whether it's repeated incidents. But there are many places like that where a place is located where it's at risk for xyz.

I beg to differ on not really populated. 90,000 homes seems like a high population in a high to very high fire risk area, so have other areas of CA that have experienced wildfires and into CO as well and other states with wildfire risks.

There are also areas prone to tornadoes or hail storm, etc etc.

The other person was talking about NOLA and a few other places. I'm talking about many other areas out there. My place included. I already mentioned tornadoes are a way of life here. We get bad thunderstorms too. Not as many ice storms as we used to have though. Etc.

How old the city is doesn't have much to do with it really. If you're talking emotional connection to a place yes I get that; I love my home area I don't want to really leave it. But whether a place has been inhabited for 50 years, 300 years or for thousands of years such as Venice that is in a very vunerable spot there are places out there that are of high risk areas be it that they experience something fairly often or just that they are always at risk for something really bad. Mitigation and preventative measures are great it's just it won't always work or it's the continual need for improvements. That's not necessarily a bad thing just a practical statement

I kinda think it's crazy that new developments were allowed in extreme high risks areas in CA. It's not just about the seriousness of lives lost including pets and wildlife (when fuel in the place of homes and conjestion are added) but it's also the domino effect of insurance costs. Don't think that just because a wildfire happens in CA that it's not impacting your insurance rate in LA..it can and it will depending on the insurance company and the amount of CAT losses they've encountered. I'm not really for relocating people but there is no doubt that some places become ghost towns for reasons. I'm more for looking towards the future, hence the reason I mentioned the recommendation of the CA fire chief for a new development in a very high risk area. Whether that area experiences 1 wildfire in 10 years or experiences a wildfire year after year it's in a designated high and very high fire zone. It is a risk one is taking. Whether that risk is one you want to take is much more personal

------------
In any case I think you're commenting on something that I'm not really talking about. Don't think that just because I commented on the subject means I agree with the PP's tone and actual message and comments.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And now there's the real actions from people 1000s of miles away that is causing erosion of the coast of Louisiana at the rate of a football field an hour. Those who live there find that water is rising and permanently submerging their family and tribal lands. Most all have moved as the first climate change forced migration.

I think that type of situation happens in other places too.

The Missouri side floods more often in my area than the Kansas side but part of that is because KS is at a slightly higher elevation so the water goes down towards Missouri. Whether it gets to that point or not they are sorta wanting a joint state working relationship to try and work on certain high prone areas; I agree it should be it's more the allocation of funds, resources, and solutions.

But even something as simple as building a house on an empty lot can have impacts. Our house was built between two already existing homes. The home to the left of us drains into our property and our home drains into the property next door. After they poured the foundation for our home the neighbor's house noticed more water collection by his egress window which faces our property. It went so far as to flood into his basement. So he installed a french drain to mitigate water collection there.

There many other examples just from my area alone.

It's part of the reason I mentioned it as a moving target--the other part is shifting climates, human behaviors and multiple other things.

 

[portocall]

I am particularly sensitive to the Hurricane example. I grew up on a barrier island six blocks from the ocean in Florida. Never had a single storm. (Some since I left but no major damage) Moved to New Orleans and bam, Katrina. I didn't flood. My house was fine. I left the school board for a nother job two months before and bam, school board dissolved. Both were cases of LUCK. I zigged and zagged just right. It could have easily been much worse. But to blame the people for living here is ridiculous. My in-laws evacuated TO NOLA for Hurricanes Betsy and Camille.

I am actually moving soon due to better opportunities that opened up for our family. Do I think that I will be safer than here? Nope. Anything can come and take havoc on finances at anytime. Life's a giant crapshoot .

 

[DisneyOma]

I have compassion for my students when they make a mistake, but I still hold them responsible for it.

I hope the OP never gets into a situation (cancer diagnosis of a loved one, perhaps a child) where they will have to depend on the compassion of another to get the correct treatment, etc. Sounds like life has gone pretty smoothly for the OP, and hasn't had to adjust to a huge, catastrophic hit. Ah, to be so ignorant (in the true sense of the word, not the insuting "stupid" form), it's almost like tempting karma, IMO.

 

[amberpi]

After my very good, and very expensive insurance, I was left with 6 digit medical bills, which I am grateful I could pay. It HURT, it still hurts. But you know what, every time I hear of a family I know in need due to health care expenses, I help (just not through gotakemymoney.com, etc.). You realize that such a hit would take down the most prepared families in the nation? I had a TBI? Was that my fault and responsibility? Well, I reckon it was because they were my bills, and I've got knocks on my credit even now from places who couldn't produce a proper invoice (I wasn't just writing checks willy nilly and now know how horrible and time consuming it is to make sure each service provided didn't get double paid through the hospital, and/or their own billing not knowing which end is up) or ones that I paid, have proof I paid and they don't acknowledge. It's maddening. I guess I pass the test of prepared, but it was a crappy, sucky test. If I hadn't lived so far below my means for so many years, my situation wouldn't be like that. The vast majority of folks don't have that kind of breathing room to live on 25% of their income. I have all the compassion for people who are affected by things that we wouldn't normally plan. How much preparedness is enough? At what cost to the rest of your life? You can't live expecting for the worst...I never did. Most people aren't running around being irresponsible, they are doing their ABSOLUTE best. When one of my good friends who is a teacher couldn't afford a new dishwasher and doesn't spend on much of anything, I cried. She is making sacrifices I couldn't for the good of our community. After I dried my eyes I ordered her a dishwasher to be delivered. There is only so much blood to get from a turnip and we should cut others far more slack...or I try to. I don't know others circumstances and they aren't my business, but I have compassion, empathy, and believe in helping others. I don't have to judge them. That's not my place in the world.

#endgiantrant #imnotcryingyourecrying

 

[Wishing on a star]

Wow....

"Proper etiquette"
and

I have planned for the potential destruction of my home, I have bought a homeowners policy. I also avoided purchasing a home in a 100 year flood plain. I have replaced my smoke detectors at 10 years old. I maintain the major mechanical systems in my home so they are in proper working order and less likely to spark a fire.

My, aren't you... 'special".

Sounds like somebody holds a lot of anger and judgement and resentment, from back when they were 10 years old....

 

[Southernmiss]

I think that type of situation happens in other places too.

The Missouri side floods more often in my area than the Kansas side but part of that is because KS is at a slightly higher elevation so the water goes down towards Missouri. Whether it gets to that point or not they are sorta wanting a joint state working relationship to try and work on certain high prone areas; I agree it should be it's more the allocation of funds, resources, and solutions.

But even something as simple as building a house on an empty lot can have impacts. Our house was built between two already existing homes. The home to the left of us drains into our property and our home drains into the property next door. After they poured the foundation for our home the neighbor's house noticed more water collection by his egress window which faces our property. It went so far as to flood into his basement. So he installed a french drain to mitigate water collection there.

There many other examples just from my area alone.

It's part of the reason I mentioned it as a moving target--the other part is shifting climates, human behaviors and multiple other things.

I agree. Our home, not near a flood area, almost flooded 2 years ago in a 3 hour 12 inch rain overnight. After our home was built, a new subdivision was built behind us affecting the wetland area behind us and the natural drainage. Our city had not properly maintained the drainage ditches around us and we came within inches from flooding. No doubt it happens in other areas. And homes in our area did flood. What area can easily handle 12 inches of rain in 3 hours?

But to state that we should all properly plan and prepare for those situations is ridiculous. We have since purchased flood insurance because you never know. But we also know that all the proper planning and preparation in the world does not inoculate us from any harm.

We got the dreaded call last February that doctors suspected that our otherwise healthy 20 year old college son had cancer. That was a week from hell until we got the word that it was another serious disease that will stick with him for his life. Yea, nothing could have prepared us for or prevented that diagnosis. And it was through no fault of his own--just breathing in air on his campus (I believe) that had a contaminant in it.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I agree. Our home, not near a flood area, almost flooded 2 years ago in a 3 hour 12 inch rain overnight. After our home was built, a new subdivision was built behind us affecting the wetland area behind us and the natural drainage. Our city had not properly maintained the drainage ditches around us and we came within inches from flooding. No doubt it happens in other areas. And homes in our area did flood. What area can easily handle 12 inches of rain in 3 hours?

But to state that we should all properly plan and prepare for those situations is ridiculous. We have since purchased flood insurance because you never know. But we also know that all the proper planning and preparation in the world does not inoculate us from any harm.

We got the dreaded call last February that doctors suspected that our otherwise healthy 20 year old college son had cancer. That was a week from hell until we got the word that it was another serious disease that will stick with him for his life. Yea, nothing could have prepared us for or prevented that diagnosis. And it was through no fault of his own--just breathing in air on his campus (I believe) that had a contaminate in it.

Good vibes sent your way towards your son ; I can't even imagine how scary that must have been to think it was cancer but also how y'all must feel knowing it's not cancer but rather something that's lifelong and at such a young age.

 

[Southernmiss]

Good vibes sent your way towards your son ; I can't even imagine how scary that must have been to think it was cancer but also how y'all must feel knowing it's not cancer but rather something that's lifelong and at such a young age.

Thank you for the well wishes. After 6 months on an intense medication, he feels fine. But he's still under doctor's care and will be for some time to come. Hopefully, this thing will stay dormant now. But I know never to let my guard down.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Thank you for the well wishes. After 6 months on an intense medication, he feels fine. But he's still under doctor's care and will be for some time to come. Hopefully, this thing will stay dormant now. But I know never to let my guard down.

Glad to hear he's at least feeling fine presently and I hope it stays dormant as well.

 

[amberpi]

Thank you for the well wishes. After 6 months on an intense medication, he feels fine. But he's still under doctor's care and will be for some time to come. Hopefully, this thing will stay dormant now. But I know never to let my guard down.

Glad he's doing so well now!

 

[lifesavacation]

What does it even mean to "hold someone responsible" in these situations? I don't quite get it, honestly.

I'm thinking of building a house on a river. 50% of the property is in the 100 year flood plain. I will purchase flood insurance and build the house according to all county and city requirements. If my house floods, how is the average person going to hold me accountable? Does that mean judge me in a negative manner?

 

[mnrose]

What does it even mean to "hold someone responsible" in these situations? I don't quite get it, honestly.

I'm thinking of building a house on a river. 50% of the property is in the 100 year flood plain. I will purchase flood insurance and build the house according to all county and city requirements. If my house floods, how is the average person going to hold me accountable? Does that mean judge me in a negative manner?

That's exactly what it means. If you truly have compassion for people, you are not "judging" them. It's antithetical to the concept of "compassion" to also say "but it's your fault...."

 

[lifesavacation]

That's exactly what it means. If you truly have compassion for people, you are not "judging" them. It's antithetical to the concept of "compassion" to also say "but it's your fault...."

Got it. That's a lot of random people to judge.