Pickup truck/SUV owners intentionally blocking electric charging spaces in parking lots

[bcla]

Speaking as somebody who drives a Tesla and works in the automation field, I think we’ll see preliminary adoption much sooner than that. Five years ago the technology didn’t even exist, now it’s quite advanced and every mile driven by a Tesla (or any car with semi-autonomous driving capability) feeds the algorithms to make them better. And not just miles driven in “autopilot,” which I agree is currently ANYTHING BUT in the consumer-facing versions, but every mile driven the software is running in the background, learning and improving and improving the algorithms. Millions of miles a week, and soon millions of miles a day, are adding to the body of data. Autonomous driving is still safer than a human driving, and the economics of having a rig that can functionally run 24 hours a day are too good to pass up. Fully electric trucks may, in my opinion, come slower than fully autonomous cars, but in technology, twenty years is ten lifetimes (think Moore’s Law, for example) and barring regulatory opposition (possible because of the strong lobbies involved with the insurance, personal injury lawyers, labor unions, etc.) I think its widespread adoption is coming sooner than most people can fathom.The sensors that Tesla used initially are already generations behind in just a few years and the current ones are barely scratching the surface of the ones they have installed (I believe the current models use three of the twelve or more sensors, cameras, radars, etc. that are installed).

The biggest issue will still be range. Certainly I can imagine a lot of short-haul trucking being taken over by electrics. They're almost ideal for that use where they don't need transmissions and there's almost immediate low-rev torque to move big loads. But range will be the limitation for long-haul trucking - especially

I worked a college job in the shipping industry where my company dealt with a lot of short-haul (drayage) shipping. Our biggest vendor did short-haul transport of containers from container ports off of ships or trains to the customer. Our typical invoices were $80 or $100. They'd be idling for a while waiting for their loads and then typically moving them 10-30 miles. This was almost ideal for electric vehicles. I don't know if they could necessarily go without drivers though. Someone always have to take responsibility and sign for a load. I'm not sure that will ever change.

 

[fla4fun]

Yes, I suspect most truck drivers will be obsolete (along with most cabbies) in less than twenty years. As self-driving technology comes online, self-driving trucks will be able to drive 24 hours a day, will be much safer, and much more cost-efficient.

I can see automated cargo movement, maybe not in a twenty year timeframe, but Ican see it.

Taxis? Well, until that self driving car can load and unload my luggage on a trip (which is the only time I would use a taxi) I will stick with a vehicle that has a human aboard. Can I see that happening? Sure, but probably not in my lifetime.

 

[Klayfish]

Yes, I suspect most truck drivers will be obsolete (along with most cabbies) in less than twenty years. As self-driving technology comes online, self-driving trucks will be able to drive 24 hours a day, will be much safer, and much more cost-efficient.

The technology for truly self driving cars is making progress. However, the infrastructure to support them has such an amazingly long way to go. Not just charging stations, but roads, etc... Self driving cars would need the ability to talk to each other...all of them. I'd be skeptical that truck drivers, cabbies or other drivers will be obsolete in 20 years, if ever.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

The technology for truly self driving cars is making progress. However, the infrastructure to support them has such an amazingly long way to go. Not just charging stations, but roads, etc... Self driving cars would need the ability to talk to each other...all of them. I'd be skeptical that truck drivers, cabbies or other drivers will be obsolete in 20 years, if ever.

Agreed, and I think one other thing to consider is that many deliveries truck drivers make still require manual labor on the driver’s part.

Plus, today’s diesel trucks have a LOT of bugs that aren’t sorted out with their computer nanny systems. Until they can perfect THESE systems, I’ll have zero confidence in self-drivers.

 

[bcla]

Agreed, and I think one other thing to consider is that many deliveries truck drivers make still require manual labor on the driver’s part.

Plus, today’s diesel trucks have a LOT of bugs that aren’t sorted out with their computer nanny systems. Until they can perfect THESE systems, I’ll have zero confidence in self-drivers.

The driving part will be easy. I suppose it might get to the point where there only needs to be a non-driving attendant, or someone who will rarely be required to take over driving. They may still need to be refueled or charged, and it will still take people to do much of that work.

 

[monsterkitty]

Honestly, a lot of cyclists ride like douchebags around here. It’s one of those cases where I don’t at all condone the behavior (especially since the odds favor your victim being innocent), but I also understand the motivation.

My buddies in TX love to complain about pulling into a filling station with 20 open pumps, and a small car blocking the ONLY diesel pump. Unlike the OP about blocking charging stations, most of the time this is just someone who should be paying more attention, not someone deliberately being a jerk.

As a cyclist who rode over 2,000 miles outside in 2018 I do agree that there are some cyclists who act like fools (I refuse to use your term). However, 98% of cyclists follow the laws and ride safe because the vehicle will always win.

When I was the victim of the "rolling coal" jerks, I was on the highway well within the bike lane and stopped at red lights. I had done nothing in the previous hours to deserve the diesel being blown into my face. In fact, of the 100s of cyclists I saw that day, none of them had done anything to deserve this either.

As for the small car blocking the ONLY diesel pump, did you ever stop to think that they had no idea it was a diesel pump? Not everyone knows that the green handle on the pump means it's a diesel pump. It's not that they are being a jerk or not paying attention, they just don't know.

How does one ride like a douche bag? What are the regulations they are not following, for example? Here in MA, cyclists just have to follow the same rules of the road as cars. They tend to stay to the right on roads, but they don't have to.

We vacationed in Boston this past June. I loved riding from Boston to Lexington and back. MA knows how to do bike lanes and bike paths!

We don't have to stay on the right here, either. We also are legally allowed to ride 2 abreast because it's been found to be safer for vehicles to see us. Personally I do not like to ride side-by-side because it makes me nervous, but it is legal.

Just clogging up the lanes and making no effort to keep right when holding up traffic. Riding 3 & 4 wide (sometimes spilling over into the oncoming lane). Bicycles & farm equipment tend to move at roughly the same pace. It shouldn’t be easier to get around a 20,000lb combine than it is to get around cyclists. But, it often is.

Your final sentence sums it up, actually. Some more militant cyclists have that “I don’t HAVE to keep right, so I’m not going to” attitude. That complete lack of common courtesy on their part taints the entire public perception of cyclists.

Cyclists sometimes have to move to the left in order to avoid road hazards. Those I ride and race with will signal that we're moving left and will make sure it is safe to do so. Cars passing us must by law give us 3 feet, so if you're passing too close and I need to move left, you're going to get the ticket.

Then pull into the nearest driveway and stop. Honestly, all the lame excuses in the world simply do not justify deliberately holding up significantly faster moving traffic.

Besides, as previously mentioned, there usually IS a cyclist riding right in that so-called “danger zone”. The problem is typically the 3 or more riders directly to his or her left.

Many times there isn't a safe place for a cyclist to move to the right. However, if it is safe then the cyclists should move to the right.

If you can't understand that then maybe the problem isn't the cyclist. ​

We have a "share the road" law here and if a driver doesn't allow for that 3 feet they are ticketed. If cyclists don't follow the laws of the roads then they are also ticketed (just ask my sister - she got a speeding ticket for going 23 on her bike through a school zone).

Honestly, I now prefer to ride my bike in my basement on the trainer because it's safer. Cyclists not only have to deal with the jerks spewing diesel in our faces, but we have to always be alert for the distracted driver. However, we still need "road" time and we expect the drivers as well as other cyclists to follow the laws and just have flipping manners.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

As a cyclist who rode over 2,000 miles outside in 2018 I do agree that there are some cyclists who act like fools (I refuse to use your term). However, 98% of cyclists follow the laws and ride safe because the vehicle will always win.

When I was the victim of the "rolling coal" jerks, I was on the highway well within the bike lane and stopped at red lights. I had done nothing in the previous hours to deserve the diesel being blown into my face. In fact, of the 100s of cyclists I saw that day, none of them had done anything to deserve this either.

As for the small car blocking the ONLY diesel pump, did you ever stop to think that they had no idea it was a diesel pump? Not everyone knows that the green handle on the pump means it's a diesel pump. It's not that they are being a jerk or not paying attention, they just don't know.



We vacationed in Boston this past June. I loved riding from Boston to Lexington and back. MA knows how to do bike lanes and bike paths!

We don't have to stay on the right here, either. We also are legally allowed to ride 2 abreast because it's been found to be safer for vehicles to see us. Personally I do not like to ride side-by-side because it makes me nervous, but it is legal.



Cyclists sometimes have to move to the left in order to avoid road hazards. Those I ride and race with will signal that we're moving left and will make sure it is safe to do so. Cars passing us must by law give us 3 feet, so if you're passing too close and I need to move left, you're going to get the ticket.



Many times there isn't a safe place for a cyclist to move to the right. However, if it is safe then the cyclists should move to the right.

If you can't understand that then maybe the problem isn't the cyclist. ​

We have a "share the road" law here and if a driver doesn't allow for that 3 feet they are ticketed. If cyclists don't follow the laws of the roads then they are also ticketed (just ask my sister - she got a speeding ticket for going 23 on her bike through a school zone).

Honestly, I now prefer to ride my bike in my basement on the trainer because it's safer. Cyclists not only have to deal with the jerks spewing diesel in our faces, but we have to always be alert for the distracted driver. However, we still need "road" time and we expect the drivers as well as other cyclists to follow the laws and just have flipping manners.

I did state (and you quoted) that those blocking diesel pumps are probably just not paying as much attention as they should.

And no, I fully “understand” the rules of the road as well as common courtesy. And any unpleasant encounters I’ve experienced on the road with cyclists were cases of the cyclists being 100% in the wrong. I have friends who ride & have ridden these roads myself on occasion. I have no problem SHARING the road. Sadly, many cyclists (way more than the 2% you mentioned) believe in owning the road, not sharing it.

Having said that, there’s a national cycling event that passes through town every Summer. Takes several days to come through. We’re all aware of it and plan ahead for any delays that it might cause. And given that it’s a race, we sort of expect there to be some lane hogging by cyclists and are ready to deal with it. Yet, it’s never once been a problem in all the years it’s come through here.

The semi-local, semi-organized groups of cyclists passing through OTOH are unfailingly a giant pain in the rump. Every. Single. Ride.

 

[seashoreCM]

... There are tons of women around here who drive trucks that I swear ...

One of my teachers (junior high science) was an unmarried lady and she drove a pickup truck. They say that one day her truck had broken down and she drove a tractor to school. I was not and still am not an auto buff and I don't know what kind of pickup she had or whether the tractor was an 18 wheeler tractor or a farm tractor.

I think that "public" charging stations should be priced. The charging equipment costs money to obtain and install and operate. Charging at commuter lots remains an inefficient operation; a charger can typically be used by only one car per day. At any rate, payment for charging should prevent non-users from blocking the stall.

When I was growing up, my mother would tell us kids to roll up the windows when we were waiting at a red light and a bus was next to us. In those days they did not have smog controls and the bus would always roll coal when it started up.

 

[Colleen27]

I don't get the emotional attachment people have to their vehicle choice. My car is just how I get myself and my crap from Point A to Point B, not a defining personality trait or an expression of my deepest values! But I've seen a variation on this myself - I finished my bachelors a couple years ago, at the same time the university I attended was installing electric charging stations. The spots at those stations were posted as for electric vehicles only, but at some point it was clarified that those signs do not have any force of law behind them, and it became a small "movement" (with flyers promoting it and everything) for truck drivers to occupy those spots in "protest" of the special treatment electric vehicle owners were getting from the school. The area around the school and the overall demographic of the student body there is pretty yuppie, so it wasn't redneck pickup trucks so much as Hummers and Escalades, and I never heard about any direct verbal confrontations over the spots. But the underlying point was the same - drivers of gas guzzlers "protesting" electric vehicles for whatever crazy reason.

 

[bcla]

One of my teachers (junior high science) was an unmarried lady and she drove a pickup truck. They say that one day her truck had broken down and she drove a tractor to school. I was not and still am not an auto buff and I don't know what kind of pickup she had or whether the tractor was an 18 wheeler tractor or a farm tractor.

I think that "public" charging stations should be priced. The charging equipment costs money to obtain and install and operate. Charging at commuter lots remains an inefficient operation; a charger can typically be used by only one car per day. At any rate, payment for charging should prevent non-users from blocking the stall.

When I was growing up, my mother would tell us kids to roll up the windows when we were waiting at a red light and a bus was next to us. In those days they did not have smog controls and the bus would always roll coal when it started up.

Diesel engines before perhaps the 80s were like that. I remember our local bus fleet and that distinctive odor of diesel exhaust. By the same token, most cars at that time used leaded gasoline.

There are a variety of charging schemes. Tesla has their Supercharger network, and pricing varies. Older Teslas are eligible for free, unlimited use of them for charging. I've heard that they also have some system for newer cars where the electricity if free if used away from home, but there are limits. So I could drive 400 miles away, and the charging outside of a certain distance from my home will be free from their charging stations.

However, none are really considered parking spaces. The networks that charge for the electricity will also have a penalty if a vehicle is fully charged and not disconnected. Even Tesla charges a fee if it's still connected. They're also not considered parking spaces per se, but parking only for the use of active charging. I've heard of people disconnecting them and staying at the spaces, but theoretically that's ground for towing a vehicle.

Tesla starts charging a steep fee if left connected.

https://electrek.co/2018/09/19/tesla-update-supercharger-idle-fees/

It would also take about 75 minutes to charge a nearly depleted Model S at one of Tesla's Superchargers. However, they're considerably faster than other systems. Still - a lot of drivers are going to be using them short distances where it might only take an hour to top off the battery.

 

[QueenIsabella]

I don't get the emotional attachment people have to their vehicle choice. My car is just how I get myself and my crap from Point A to Point B, not a defining personality trait or an expression of my deepest values! But I've seen a variation on this myself - I finished my bachelors a couple years ago, at the same time the university I attended was installing electric charging stations. The spots at those stations were posted as for electric vehicles only, but at some point it was clarified that those signs do not have any force of law behind them, and it became a small "movement" (with flyers promoting it and everything) for truck drivers to occupy those spots in "protest" of the special treatment electric vehicle owners were getting from the school. The area around the school and the overall demographic of the student body there is pretty yuppie, so it wasn't redneck pickup trucks so much as Hummers and Escalades, and I never heard about any direct verbal confrontations over the spots. But the underlying point was the same - drivers of gas guzzlers "protesting" electric vehicles for whatever crazy reason.

I don't think it's a "crazy" reason, unless the electric charging stations/parking spots are in the back of the lot. I can't say I have much experience with charging stations, but our local Whole Foods has them. They are right up front, next to the handicapped parking. Why should the best general parking be reserved for electric vehicles? It just fits in with the smug and pretentious attitude associated, fairly or not, with drivers of EVs. Now, this doesn't impact my life--I've shopped at Whole Foods a total of once, no intention of going back. But I can understand how this would grate on college kids--especially if parking is at a premium, which it's been on every college campus I've been on.

 

[DisneyOma]

Who cares? Pretty much EVERYONE stuck behind the jerk who doesn’t care he or she is impeding the flow of traffic. If a farmer who NEEDS the road to transport equipment from field to filed during his 17th consecutive 16-hour work day can have the decency to pull over for faster traffic, a cyclist who is only out there for their own enjoyment can damn well do the same.

That's quite an assumption you are making - that the cyclist is doing it 'for enjoyment'. How about as an Earth friendly form of transportation (to balance off the 16 hours of tractor fumes), an excellent source of exercise so he stays healthy and doesn't incur tons of health costs in life that are a burden to society? If the cyclist pulled over for every car, he could be late for work.

I did state (and you quoted) that those blocking diesel pumps are probably just not paying as much attention as they should.

And no, I fully “understand” the rules of the road as well as common courtesy. And any unpleasant encounters I’ve experienced on the road with cyclists were cases of the cyclists being 100% in the wrong. I have friends who ride & have ridden these roads myself on occasion. I have no problem SHARING the road. Sadly, many cyclists (way more than the 2% you mentioned) believe in owning the road, not sharing it.

Having said that, there’s a national cycling event that passes through town every Summer. Takes several days to come through. We’re all aware of it and plan ahead for any delays that it might cause. And given that it’s a race, we sort of expect there to be some lane hogging by cyclists and are ready to deal with it. Yet, it’s never once been a problem in all the years it’s come through here.

The semi-local, semi-organized groups of cyclists passing through OTOH are unfailingly a giant pain in the rump. Every. Single. Ride.

Diesel pumps have gas at them here, so it's fine for a car that doesn't use diesel to use that pump. It's like the handicap stall in the bathroom -you have no idea if someone else needs it, and if it's empty, it should be used by whomever is next in line. If it's open, use it.

And the part about sharing the road - that's a two way street (pun intended) and cars need to share with bicycles. In an accident, the bicyclist always loses. It's like the "look twice, save a life" motorcycle slogan. Just realize you are driving a machine that is so much heavier than a bike, and chill.

 

[Klayfish]

The driving part will be easy.

No, it won't. At all.

I don't get the emotional attachment people have to their vehicle choice. My car is just how I get myself and my crap from Point A to Point B, not a defining personality trait or an expression of my deepest values!

That's fair, because obviously cars aren't your thing. However, keep in mind that there are plenty of people who don't understand the emotional attachment people have to going to WDW, and say it's just a tourist trap to go on vacation. Or emotional attachment people have to buying shoes, or clothes. Everyone has material things they enjoy. I don't get emotionally attached to cars, I don't keep them long enough...LOL. Nor do I care what others think of the type of car I drive. However, they are far more than just "point A to point B" for me, and for plenty of others. They're what I choose to spend most of my disposable income on, because I thoroughly enjoy them and enjoy driving them.

I love EVs, I'm a former Nissan Leaf owner. However, I definitely would not be ready to put my eggs in the Tesla basket just yet. They're still built on too much hype, too many issues, too many delays and too many obstacles for my tastes. I know they finally have started to turn a profit, which is great. I like the Model S, and the Roadster from a decade ago, but still have skepticism.

 

[luvsJack]

Agreed, and I think one other thing to consider is that many deliveries truck drivers make still require manual labor on the driver’s part.

Plus, today’s diesel trucks have a LOT of bugs that aren’t sorted out with their computer nanny systems. Until they can perfect THESE systems, I’ll have zero confidence in self-drivers.

They can’t even get the e-logs to work right for everyone and to take every circumstance into consideration. If the experience with those are any indication of the reasoning skills of a self driving truck, all I can say is stay away off the roads.

 

[luvsJack]

The driving part will be easy. I suppose it might get to the point where there only needs to be a non-driving attendant, or someone who will rarely be required to take over driving. They may still need to be refueled or charged, and it will still take people to do much of that work.

No the driving part won’t be easy. If you have never driven a long haul truck, chances are you have no idea (no disrespect intended, just that you can’t understand all the ins and outs of you haven’t done it).

 

[Gumbo4x4]

That's quite an assumption you are making - that the cyclist is doing it 'for enjoyment'. How about as an Earth friendly form of transportation (to balance off the 16 hours of tractor fumes), an excellent source of exercise so he stays healthy and doesn't incur tons of health costs in life that are a burden to society? If the cyclist pulled over for every car, he could be late for work.



Diesel pumps have gas at them here, so it's fine for a car that doesn't use diesel to use that pump. It's like the handicap stall in the bathroom -you have no idea if someone else needs it, and if it's empty, it should be used by whomever is next in line. If it's open, use it.

And the part about sharing the road - that's a two way street (pun intended) and cars need to share with bicycles. In an accident, the bicyclist always loses. It's like the "look twice, save a life" motorcycle slogan. Just realize you are driving a machine that is so much heavier than a bike, and chill.

Considering 99% of the cyclists we see on the road are riding on weekends, it’s a pretty fair assumption.

And you can NOT be serious about the late for work thing! Boo hoo, the cyclist could be late for work if they pulled over for faster traffic!?!? How about all the people who WILL be late for work because ONE cyclist is holding up dozens of cars!?!? I’m sorry, but when you CHOOSE to travel in a manner that automatically creates inconvenience for EVERYONE ELSE, it’s YOU who needs to be accommodating. Again, if a farmer - who by definition is already AT WORK while moving equipment - can do it, so can cyclists. Period.

Quite frankly, you’re basically proving my point for me. If you want to know why so many motorists have a bad attitude toward cyclists, go back & read everything you’ve said. You give courteous riders a bad name.

Yes, it’s a 2-way Street on sharing. I am fully committed to safely operating my vehicle in the vicinity of your bike. I will give you (and motorcycles) additional space whenever necessary. I know your presence on the road WILL cost me time and I’m fully prepared to lose it. Now, is it too much to ask that you do your part to ensure the amount of time I lose BECAUSE OF YOU is a “reasonable” amount of time?

As for the diesel pump, it works like the handicapped stall in the bathroom. If it’s busy, it’s expected that there will be a car of some kind at every pump. OTOH, if there are 16 empty pumps, and the ONE diesel pump is vacant, the courteous thing to do is not block that pump if your car isn’t diesel.

 

[John VN]

................Taxis? Well, until that self driving car can load and unload my luggage on a trip (which is the only time I would use a taxi).............. Can I see that happening? Sure, but probably not in my lifetime.

Well, it looks like they may have the "loading" part taken care of. With a little softer touch.

 

[msjprincess]

Dang. I’m a dude who drives a mini-van. I knew I was sort of lame, but I didn’t realize everyone else knew! It’s just such a great vehicle for student carpooling, dog hauling, and packing and riding during trips. Oh well.

@Jennasis, I used to have an F-250 with the old 7.3 liter turbo diesel. Oh man, what a great truck! I never blasted cyclists with smoke, but I did haul bikes and pretty much everything you could imagine for myself and friends. It could pull anything. Stupidly, I did not get the crew cab, and it became too impractical for my growing family.

And @LSUmiss, I went to grad school at UF. I remember the LSU fans rolling into Gainesville and setting up tailgate parties. They were great! And that was a road game! I went to several of the parties while scalping my student tickets. Good times!

We have a 350 with a crew cab, it's so roomy.

 

[monsterkitty]

Considering 99% of the cyclists we see on the road are riding on weekends, it’s a pretty fair assumption.

And you can NOT be serious about the late for work thing! Boo hoo, the cyclist could be late for work if they pulled over for faster traffic!?!? How about all the people who WILL be late for work because ONE cyclist is holding up dozens of cars!?!? I’m sorry, but when you CHOOSE to travel in a manner that automatically creates inconvenience for EVERYONE ELSE, it’s YOU who needs to be accommodating. Again, if a farmer - who by definition is already AT WORK while moving equipment - can do it, so can cyclists. Period.

Quite frankly, you’re basically proving my point for me. If you want to know why so many motorists have a bad attitude toward cyclists, go back & read everything you’ve said. You give courteous riders a bad name.

Yes, it’s a 2-way Street on sharing. I am fully committed to safely operating my vehicle in the vicinity of your bike. I will give you (and motorcycles) additional space whenever necessary. I know your presence on the road WILL cost me time and I’m fully prepared to lose it. Now, is it too much to ask that you do your part to ensure the amount of time I lose BECAUSE OF YOU is a “reasonable” amount of time?

As for the diesel pump, it works like the handicapped stall in the bathroom. If it’s busy, it’s expected that there will be a car of some kind at every pump. OTOH, if there are 16 empty pumps, and the ONE diesel pump is vacant, the courteous thing to do is not block that pump if your car isn’t diesel.

A farmer can pull over in places a cyclist can not. Period (I can play this game as well).

Traffic can make anyone late. Traffic in the Denver/Boulder area has increased greatly over the past 10 years. We've just learned to add time to our commute. It has nothing to do with cyclists on the road. Many cyclists who commute know where the bike lanes and paths are located and will take those and avoid streets without bike lanes. You cannot tell me that if you have a ten-mile commute a cyclist is going to stay in front of you for miles without you being able to pass safely or them turning somewhere.

You will give additional space whenever necessary? What does that even mean?

One more time on the diesel pump thing - it has nothing to do with being courteous or not paying attention. It's that people DO NOT KNOW that the green pump is the diesel pump. I just learned that a few years ago and I'm 53! A friend was complaining about the exact same thing you are and every one of us looked at him and said we had know idea that the green pump was for diesel.

As I stated earlier, I prefer to do most of my riding in the basement now. When I do ride it will be in bike-friendly areas between my home north of Denver and in Boulder. I am not going to ride in Weld County because frankly many of the drivers have the same attitude as you - even if a cyclist is in a bike lane. There were several cyclists killed on the roads here last year. All were due to the drivers not paying attention or were drunk when they hit the cyclist. One driver claimed the cyclist crossed over in front of him before making a left turn. However, that was proven false in court.

Once again, I am not denying that there are cyclists who are problems and I have even said what the heck are you doing? Maybe it's a difference where we live because I don't see the huge issues that you do.

 

[luvsJack]

A farmer can pull over in places a cyclist can not. Period (I can play this game as well).

Traffic can make anyone late. Traffic in the Denver/Boulder area has increased greatly over the past 10 years. We've just learned to add time to our commute. It has nothing to do with cyclists on the road. Many cyclists who commute know where the bike lanes and paths are located and will take those and avoid streets without bike lanes. You cannot tell me that if you have a ten-mile commute a cyclist is going to stay in front of you for miles without you being able to pass safely or them turning somewhere.

You will give additional space whenever necessary? What does that even mean?

One more time on the diesel pump thing - it has nothing to do with being courteous or not paying attention. It's that people DO NOT KNOW that the green pump is the diesel pump. I just learned that a few years ago and I'm 53! A friend was complaining about the exact same thing you are and every one of us looked at him and said we had know idea that the green pump was for diesel.

As I stated earlier, I prefer to do most of my riding in the basement now. When I do ride it will be in bike-friendly areas between my home north of Denver and in Boulder. I am not going to ride in Weld County because frankly many of the drivers have the same attitude as you - even if a cyclist is in a bike lane. There were several cyclists killed on the roads here last year. All were due to the drivers not paying attention or were drunk when they hit the cyclist. One driver claimed the cyclist crossed over in front of him before making a left turn. However, that was proven false in court.

Once again, I am not denying that there are cyclists who are problems and I have even said what the heck are you doing? Maybe it's a difference where we live because I don't see the huge issues that you do.

Where can a farmer with a huge tractor pull over that a cyclist cannot? If there is enough room for a tractor, surely there is enough for one little bicycle? Question mark. (sorry, couldn't resist)

Got to agree with Gumbo on the late for work thing. If the cyclist is holding up traffic he/she needs to pull over or move or whatever.

Some areas are just more bicycle friendly than others. In areas without bike lanes, it can be pretty frustrating for car drivers to get behind them. Add to that many of us live in areas with lots of hills and curves so its not like you can safely pass.