just back, ettiquete questions

[VAN]

"Back in the day" all the buses were configured with regular seats and the bus schedules were much more regular. Once they started the ME, many folks come in without their own cars and HAVE to rely on the buses. The buses were all reconfigured to maximize the number they could get on board ... with most of them standing. The bus schedules have suffered as well.

I am all one for saving money, but we have chosen to rent a car because of the mess I call the buses.

You can wait and wait, only to be cut off at the last minute by an ECV person and their extended family (many times in excess of 10 people). I am also one who will get up for those holding children and/or the people that "appear" to need the seat more than me (I'm a babyboomer female). I get frustrated with those who are standing that stop in the middle of the bus (don't move back); thus making it so that the entire line of people can't also board after having waited 30-40 minutes. It appears that they figure - hey, I got on the bus and that's all that matters ... I don't want anybody touching me though.

Too much frustration for me!! Soooo, we rent a car and drive ourselves.

 

[Gotta Love Eeyore]

Boy, I had to quit reading these posts because this is one heated subject. I am of the mind set that even though I am capable and willing to stand, I do appreciate a gentleman offering his seat. I always decline unless I am holding a sleeping child.

I will always vacate a seat to a parent holding a sleeping child too. Yes, kids should be able to stand on a bus IF there is a place for them to hold onto. Some of the buses do not seem to have as many hand holds for small ones. It is also harder for them when the bus is extremely crowded in the aisle.

When my son was 4, a wonderful elderly lady offered to let him sit in her lap for the ride back to the resort. She was a grandmother herself and saw how tired he was. It was an awesome gesture and we were very grateful since we were standing all crammed in ourselves. It was a super nice moment that I still think about even now that he is 11.

 

[kittythepoohbear]

I feel for the OP. These threads always turn into long arguments. Here is my $0.02 on the bus situation.

For those who grew up or live in an area where buses, trains, and subways are public transportation, the Disney buses are just that - a means of public transportation. If you go on the NYC bus system, there are designated seats for the elderly, the handicapped and pregnant women. Very few people give up their seats for children or women in general. This is because everyone on the bus needs to get somewhere and it would take forever to do so if every woman and child had to sit down.

The bus system at WDW is a mass transit system. It is meant to move large quantities of people around a large area in the most efficient way possible. Inevitably, this can lead to crowded buses, some long waits, etc. For those not used to using mass transit or do not like using mass transit, rent a car. You (a general you, not directed at OP or others) will be more comfortable. If you choose to use the WDW transportation, understand that you may have to wait or stand up.

 

[providence]

I am a 62 year old very able bodied woman. When I get on a bus after a very long day I know I have to assess the situation. If I am boarding a very crowded bus I know I have a decision to make. I can get on the bus and stand or wait for the next one and have a seat. If I board a crowded bus I don't expect anyone of any age to give me their seat. If for some reason I don't feel standing is an option for me and I have waited for the next bus I don't feel I should give up my seat to anyone who made the choice to board the bus that was crowded and not wait for the next one.

It's very simple everyone has the choice to get on the bus that is there or if that bus doesn't fit their needs they can wait for the next bus.

 

[mfd25wife]

While I don't expect a man to offer his seat to me, I do appreciate it when one does. I have fibro and yes, it is very painful at times. I've had a few who noticed I was unconsciously rubbing my hip or back and jump up even though I didn't expect it. I My DH always offers his to elderly, small children, women, and anyone who looks like they need it. He also expects my SS to do so. (While I don't for another woman if she appears young and healthy and no children, I will for the others). It isn't a matter of him looking at women as being less than a man. He also opens doors. To him, it is being a gentleman. I guess that it why I don't find it insulting in the least for a man to be trying to show respect for a woman. I'm not sure how it ever developed that a sign of respect turned into a sign of an insult for some.

 

[Disneyadore]

One of the things that really puzzles me is that parents are always bickering grown ups because they will nut give up their seat. I never see any one complaining about 6 till 17 year old children/teens not standing up for them.

Speaking about the "good old days,being polite and teaching children manners" I do remember very well that my parents always thought us : children sit last. No matter what the situation was, we always had to stand up for grown ups weather they were old,young or carrier a child.
Obviously this rule doest exist any more.

 

[Pookasaurus]

Reading this thread makes me glad we'll have our own car and that my 8 month old and 3 year old will be safely secured in their car seats. I had thought we might use the bus one or twice to go to MK, but now I think I'll pass!

 

[Emagine]

I agree this topic comes up often. It always boils down to first come and entitlement. That is my thoughts anyways. I am 35, to look at me I am fine. Ask me on majority of the calendar days and I am short of making it due to meds and a disorder. I will not rent something till I HAVE too. That is just me.

Next I have two autistic kids who are walkers when need be and the older one still uses a stroller in the parks for his muscle tone and balance. The 4 year old is about the same. I manage the two of them and me while DH holds the fort with the special needs stroller and back pack.

I have only been given a seat once, years ago and I piled my kids on each knee and was not greedy taking two. Yes I was in pain but the safety of my kids came first.

It was not until 2 years ago we were crammed like sardines. In a near accident and I lodged a huge complaint as soon as getting off along with others on the bus. That made my mind up.

If it was our turn to load and no seats were available we did not load. We asked the driver and tell them straight up with two low toned Autistic kids we will not stand but will gladly let ppl pass and we will wait. We always wait. A few will shout for the able to spare one seat, no one does. DH stands. So we stand to the side and let a few who wish to stand load and we wait for the next.

If entitlement takes reins over safety then I forfeit my turn till the next bus and will then gladly pick my childrens seat. We all win.

 

[disneyfan2kids]

Nobody "ABSOLUTELY NEEDS" or "MUST" offer a seat to women/children/elderly. This is not a discussion of objective "which is correct?" but rather a subjective "which is proper?"

That being said... my husband would NEVER stay seated as a woman/child/elderly remained standing. Nor would I. As a matter of fact...nor would my 8 year old son (after YEARS of my DH explaining WHY he needs to do this.)

It's just what is expected in my family.

Sometimes...reading threads like this... makes me appreciate my DH even more

Say what you will about your reasons for not offering your seat... doesn't change my opinion in the slightest. (And when I am personally offered a seat by a gentleman - I politely THANK them for being a gentleman and then decline the seat.)


OT - what drives me up the wall more than this... is people who alllow EACH of their 3-4 children to take up an entire seat, including themselves. Really? Would it KILL you to put your own child on your lap so that someone else can sit? On crowded buses, at points I've had 2 children both on my lap if it meant another person has a seat.

But hey - if you can sleep at night knowing your child peacefully napped lying across 3 seats while an elderly woman went without...uhm, go for it.

 

[Squidgyness]

Well, people think me rude sometimes, they just dont understand me.

I am 18, male, fairly tall and wide shoulders. I hardly ever get up for people. Now this does not mean that I am a rude person, far from it. I do get up if people are in serious trouble.

However, the last trip I expericenced something terrible. I have issues with my knee joints, no i dont have an "official condition", they just hurt a LOT and are very weak, twist and swell a lot. I was on a bus back from Disney, and got up for a child. Whilst holding on to a pole on the bus, we went round a sharp corner and my knee was twisted, pretty badly. It hurt so bad, for the rest of the holiday I had to sit down once every ten minutes while going round the parks and after that I couldnt get up for other people, my knee would give way almost instantly.

Never assume that people are rude, some people have reasons not to do it, even if they dont have crutches or another obvious sign.

Though, some people do act deliberately rude. Just, dont assume.

I also find it equally rude when people accost others over not giving up seats. My response to one person (after incident, so pain made me grouchy) was "Why dont YOU?". They shut up pretty quickly. They were <30 and fit, btw. People in glass houses...

 

[seelyt2]

IMO...children should be allowed to sit given their height. I've seen my small daughter nearly fall over because of the jerking of the bus when she's trying to hang on to my husband who is hanging on to her with one hand and the handrail with the other. She is scared out of her mind when this happens. If a child isn't able to be near an actual full-length post to hang on to, I don't see why an able-bodied person can't let a small child sit.

 

[CathieArms]

am i being unreasonable here or am i right and the people just refused to live up to courteous standards?
luckily these were the only things i could find wrong with our trip. had a great trip otherwise!!!!!
mikewdw

I can only tell you that I stopped expecting etiquette from strangers a long time ago. YES - any one of those adults (men, especially), should've at least offered their seats to your children because they're so small and it's difficult for them to stand safely on the bus.

I'd like to hope that the young man had some type of injury or medical situation that required his use of a seat, but I doubt that's the case.

There's no point being frustrated over it. People are what they are. Our national sense of etiquette no long exists, I'm afraid. There are pockets of nice behavior and etiquette, but - unfortunately - the day of expecting unselfish behavior from others is gone.

I'll still raise my children to higher standards and hope others will do the same in the hope that we can turn this around..but I'm not overly optimistic.

 

[phorsenuf]

My son (20) has very bad knees. He's had surgery but it hasn't helped. After a long day at the park I make him sit on the bus. He says no but I make him because I know by that point his knees are spent and standing on that bus keeping your balance going around turns and such can be brutal on the knees. If you looked at him though he seems fine.

Maybe the other boy didn't make eye contact with you because he felt bad. Maybe he wanted to give you the seat but couldn't and could tell how you felt about it.

My husband too can't stand on the buses (though he does). After an accident where he shattered both ankles and heels by the end of the day he's done for.

I wish people wouldn't make automatic judgments.

 

[kaytieeldr]

As for the parade situation, I don't think you did anything wrong. The people sitting on the planter were being unreasonable.

I wouldn't even have asked. There's no 'seat-saving' for parades or events, no matter what people think - and especially in the absence of some solid item indicating a space is reserved, such as a stroller, a towel/blanket, etc.

"Back in the day" all the buses were configured with regular seats and the bus schedules were much more regular. Once they started the ME, many folks come in without their own cars and HAVE to rely on the buses. The buses were all reconfigured to maximize the number they could get on board ... with most of them standing.

Those buses were much less energy-efficient, and much less accessible for riders with a variety of visible and hidden disabilities. And nobody "has to" rely on the buses. Magical Express and not renting a car are choices.

 

[Scurvy]

just wanted some opinions on a couple of incidents from our trip last week.
1.) wife asked a couple sitting on a planter wall (in Liberty Square just down from the Hall of Presidents) if they were saving the spots in front of them for anyone for the upcoming parade, the man (with an attitude!) explained that they would put up post and rope to mark parade route and no one would be allowed to sit there. she of course knew he was wrong, she said "so then you're not saving it for anyone then" he then said no, they were hoping for a "front row seat". my wife sat down with our kids. they then began signing to each other (seemingly to talk about us) and giving our family those kind of looks even though my wife sat with our 3 children on the ground in front of them with enough space that later another row of people sat behind us and in front of them. to me, it us unbelivable that someone would think they could claim all of the space in front of their spot like that.
2.) bus etiquette, crowded bus going back to bus on hot afternoon. as we go toward back of bus, bus spiel over speakers is saying "please make room for elderly, small children, etc" we have 3 kids, DD 6, twin DS 4. seats are already taken. no one offers a seat. our kids are trying to hold on to rail and legs. my wife looks at me and says "i am soooooo aggravated" a woman realized our situation and offers her seat and so does a guy. but amazingly a college age looking guy (sitting between what appears to be his parents) completely ignores the kids as does his father. i know sometimes when you get on the bus you're so tired you don't notice others but when you see a woman offer her seat you would think a young man would move to help also. not only did he not offer the lady her seat, he also never offered for one of our kids (two of which were sharing the ladies seat). we went numerous times before we had kids, so if i ever did that to someone i apologize (although i dont think i did, my wife would kick me in the behind for that) but it just amazes me how some men will just ignore women standing like that (much less children). i ended up facing the back of the bus and the father of the college boy never made eye contact the entire ride. he looked everywhere else on the bus, out the windows, etc but never looked at me or my wife who still had to stand.
i live in a small rural area town so i am not used to crowded situations. am i being unreasonable here or am i right and the people just refused to live up to courteous standards?
luckily these were the only things i could find wrong with our trip. had a great trip otherwise!!!!!
mikewdw

1. I don't know that they sound particualrly rude, just clueless. I don't think anyone in this situation really did anything wrong.

2. I was going to say that your surprise was understandable, until I saw your signature. As a frequent visitor to WDW I am surprised you didn't already know that the buses are frequently standing room only. No one has to justify why they want to sit on the bus, and no one is more entitled to a seat than anyone else. The only thing that matters is who got on the bus first. If you or a member of your party is unable to stand on the bus, then you need to take responsibility for that yourself and stop expecting other people to give up their seats for you. You have no way of knowing why they want a seat, and it's really none of your business anyway. Whether they have a hidden disability, just aren't feeling well or are overly tired from a day in the parks, they got there in time to get a seat and they are entitled to keep it. Besides, they could well have already missed one bus while waiting for one they could sit on. There is an easy solution for your problem - just wait for the next bus, where you'll be assured of having a seat. Or better yet, bring or rent a car and skip the buses entirely. I don't think anyone in this situation was especially rude, either, except for possibly your wife, whose comment was quite passive-aggressive. Well, and your attitude of being more deserving of other people's seats than they are isn't very polite, either. The college boy didn't do anything wrong at all. I can totally understand why he didn't want to look at you all, though - it sounds like you were projecting quite a bad (and entitled) attitude. Or maybe he just didn't notice you. Not everyone spends the whole ride evaluating their fellow passengers, after all.

You must not understand that children cannot reach the rails and have nothing to hold on to let alone react to the movements of the bus.

There are plenty of things for kids to hold onto on Disney buses. There are several floor-to-ceiling poles located throughout the bus that shorter people can easily grasp. In addition, many of the buses have small rails on the back of each seat that a shorter person in the aisle can hold. And worst case, if you are somehow unable to position yourself so the kids can reach these things, the kids can hold on to their parents who can hold the overhead bars.
And of course all that ignores the easiest solution of all - just wait for the next bus. If your kids are unable to stand, that seems to be the most obvious solution.

ETA - I keep seeing these accounts of frightened little kids barely hanging on while standing on the buses. They are such terrible stories. I certainly hope they didn't happen more than once to any child. It's understandable that it might happen once, but after you as a parent realize that it isn't safe for your child to stand on the bus, then it's your responsibility to find a safer option. You can wait for the next bus or bring your own car or even take a cab - but if you insist on crowding onto a bus that is standing room only, you have no one but yourself to blame for the fact that your child doesn't have a seat.

 

[Disney9.9.10]

I agree with Catne's post on the first page. I am only 23 years old but I have arthritis and a long day at the park can put me in a lot of pain. Being that I am only 23 and that it is arthritis, it doesn't look like there is anything wrong, and I don't advertise it. But like Catne said, the people sitting down may very well need those seats, whether they look like it or not.

Some people do need the seats, some people are tired from a long day and are oblivious to those around them, and some just don't care to give up their seats. But you are in a public place and shouldn't expect seats to be given to your children. There are no rules saying that this must happen, it is on a first come, first serve basis, and nobody is any more special than anyone else.

 

[Jenngoofys]

The way I view the Busses is like another ride in the park first come first serve! I wouldnt give up my seat on any other ride LOL. I wait for the next bus so we can get a seat if we have to. I will give up my seat to a pregnant woman or an elderly person. I offer to hold strollers for people visibly struggling with all they choose to bring to the parks. It may be their first trip and they are still learning I try to give people the courtesy they deserve.

 

[KellyNY]

All I can say, everyone is tired after a day at the park and if someone really NEEDS a seat, wait for another bus or rent a car. Do not expect others who is also tired and waited for bus just like you, to give a seat to your child and do not play "men should give their seats" card here. It is not the last bus and it is not a life boat. As a parent you are responsible for your kids, not strangers.

 

[PatrickandLukesmom]

I think the kids enjoy the tram ride far more than the bus ride - although we like the bus at off peak times. I am concerned though about the buses, and have actually written an old-fashioned letter after returning from our most recent trip in May, the first with our 2 children boys aged 8 and 6.

Who counts the people getting on the bus? There has to be a safe capacity and I am certain that most nights, the buses are leaving too packed. My boys are more than capable of standing, however they cannot reach the overhead bars and for the most part were holding onto me. This was fine except...

The drivers - I am not conviced I could or would want their job, but seriously to go from 40 miles an hour to a DEAD STOP is going to jostle EVERYONE on a bus and it seems that is the way that most drive. On our 2nd night, this happened and several people on the bus fell to the floor like dominoes. The person on the bottom of the pile hit their shoulder and their head on the way down.

Scooters/wheelchairs - I am probably going to get jumped for this but here goes. After EMH at MK, we found our way to our bus line, and waited our turn. 2 buses came and went, and we were the third family in line to get on the next one. There was no one in the wheelchair line until about 2 minutes before the bus arrived. Once it did, the driver and CM member loaded not only the people in the scooters, but ALL the family members that were with them, which took up more than half the seats on the bus.

I think Disney needs to ask the family members to stand in line with all the other patrons, and when the family arrives at the door to the bus, then the person in the wheel chair can get loaded. Another option is allow one person to board the bus with the person in the scooter/wheelchair. I am not sure I understand why being in a scooter jumps you to the front of the line.

We even started taking the bus from our resort to another park and then catching the bus to the park we wanted. At night, we did the reverse (ie travelled to HS from MK and then caught our resort bus there) and this seemed to get us back to our resort quickly and with fewer people.

We have however, decided that we will be renting a car for next time.

 

[honeymo78]

Unless we are in a hurry, DH and I wait for a seat on the bus and generally don't give them up. I'm glad that DH doesn't feel the need to offer his seat to women and children. I am not some precious flower than needs to sit while the big strong man stands. I don't consider being offered a seat just because I am a woman to be some wonderful gesture.

However we have made room or stood for a parent with a baby (although personally I would never have gotten on the bus in that situation) or an elderly person who seems to be struggling with standing, but not automatically every time we see them.

I guess coming from working in Philly and having ridden a bus or commuter train for several years I have a different perspective of riding public buses.