"Disney Faulted in Disability Access Complaints"

[redberyl]

Aaarcher86, Im not here to argue who needs it or not, just wanted to point out that not all wish kids get a DAS, when a lot of people seems to think they do. First you say "lets not pretend people are walking up and telling cms their diagnosis and getting stuffed in a chair", then you say "your diagnosis doesnt matter" which do you believe, youre contradicting yourself. Not trying to mislead anyone, if we go to disney and i request a das im not going to say to the cm "we need a das because she was here on a wish trip before", so why would i say that here? Again, not trying to pick a fight, just pointing out "wish kid" doesnt equal das

 

[aaarcher86]

Aaarcher86, Im not here to argue who needs it or not, just wanted to point out that not all wish kids get a DAS, when a lot of people seems to think they do. First you say "lets not pretend people are walking up and telling cms their diagnosis and getting stuffed in a chair", then you say "your diagnosis doesnt matter" which do you believe, youre contradicting yourself. Not trying to mislead anyone, if we go to disney and i request a das im not going to say to the cm "we need a das because she was here on a wish trip before", so why would i say that here? Again, not trying to pick a fight, just pointing out "wish kid" doesnt equal das

My statements actually mimic each other. People aren't walking up to the CM and giving a diagnosis and getting stuffed in a chair because the diagnosis doesn't matter. The NEEDS do. I don't see how that's contradictory.

So if a cancer patient is asked to get a wheelchair it's because their NEEDS were for mobility reasons. If the person with autism and cancer have the same needs, they'd get the same accommodation.

Wish kid definitely doesn't equal DAS, but I'm also unfamiliar with qualifying MAW diagnosis that are strictly mobility related, which is what the DAS doesn't cover. Wish kids can also recover, but I think the idea but the statement is pretty easy to understand. I don't know the requirements of the Wish group you went through which is why it felt misleading that you said you went through MAW.

 

[Goddesstree]

I remember when being a Wish kid meant being terminally ill. There wasn't a second chance to go back to WDW, so thinking about accommodations for the next trip was a moot issue. Now it's not for just the terminally ill, but that doesn't mean the child stays a wish kid - it just means he or she met a certain criteria. Arguing that they should have wish trip accommodations for the rest of their lives is unreasonable, IMO.

 

[aaarcher86]

I'd like to know when it became the norm to accommodate intellectual disabilities, including Autism and ADHD, at amusement parks. Other than in educational situations, we don't accommodate these disabilities anywhere else. You can't skip to the front of the line at a busy restaurant that has a wait for a table. There isn't an alternate waiting area to wait for a city bus. There isn't a separate line at the grocery store. So why is it acceptable to be able to do all of these in an amusement park?

I wouldn't say that. Movie theaters have special screenings for cognitive issues. There are lots cognitive impairment specific things. Most of the other places you list though, it's easier to accommodate by the parent. Dad can wait in line and mom can walk around with the kid, etc.

I definitely don't understand the idea that these kids should skip to the front, but I don't have any problem with the way the DAS is implemented now - where everyone waits the length of the line. I do think SOME, not even most, people have some awkwardly high expectation of Disney.

 

[redberyl]

Went through make a wish. Not trying to argue that she should get wish kid status forever, hope no one took it that way (in fact, thats why i didnt mention it in previous posts). Parents of sick kids are used to talking about diagnosis,not needs, since reading several posts on this thread i realize my daughter has many needs related to her diagnosis that would qualify her for a DAS, I just didnt know how to verbalize them before. Its sad because there probably are kids with illnesses likecancer or heart disease who need the das but their parents say it wrong so they dont get one, and they dont scream discrimination. Then you have autistic kids who get a das, and their parents are suing because thats still not enough.

 

[the guardian]

Then you have autistic kids who get a das, and their parents are suing because thats still not enough.

Keep in mind, the parents suing Disney are those with children who have severe autism and literally can't comprehend why they can't ride over and over. Picture a 16 year old kid who weighs 200 lbs basically foaming at the mouth pushing his way back through the line. This is far different from a child who has mild autism and can be coaxed into moving along. The problem is that children who have mild sensory disorders are being labeled as disabled and that is clearly not the case.

 

[Maggie'sMom]

Went through make a wish. Not trying to argue that she should get wish kid status forever, hope no one took it that way (in fact, thats why i didnt mention it in previous posts). Parents of sick kids are used to talking about diagnosis,not needs, since reading several posts on this thread i realize my daughter has many needs related to her diagnosis that would qualify her for a DAS, I just didnt know how to verbalize them before. Its sad because there probably are kids with illnesses likecancer or heart disease who need the das but their parents say it wrong so they dont get one, and they dont scream discrimination. Then you have autistic kids who get a das, and their parents are suing because thats still not enough.

I remember your prior posts. You didn't go through Make A Wish. You went through an alternate organization that doesn't have the same relationship with Disney, and as such, you didn't receive the same accommodations as if you had been on an official Make A Wish trip. To change your story now is disingenuous.

 

[redberyl]

I remember your prior posts. You didn't go through Make A Wish. You went through an alternate organization that doesn't have the same relationship with Disney, and as such, you didn't receive the same accommodations as if you had been on an official Make A Wish trip. To change your story now is disingenuous.

Why would i lie anout maw? We stayed at gktw, had the genie pass, did the ice cream for breakfast thing, enjoyed the cooky cart, got free face painting at universal, when mickey was walkinf away we showed the genie pass and he came back just for her, etc. What on earth is this about? Please show me the posts where i said we went through another organization

 

[Maggie'sMom]

Why would i lie anout maw? We stayed at gktw, had the genie pass, did the ice cream for breakfast thing, enjoyed the cooky cart, got free face painting at universal, when mickey was walkinf away we showed the genie pass and he came back just for her, etc. What on earth is this about? Please show me the posts where i said we went through another organization

Perhaps I'm remembering incorrectly. Sorry.

 

[SueM in MN]

Why would i lie anout maw? We stayed at gktw, had the genie pass, did the ice cream for breakfast thing, enjoyed the cooky cart, got free face painting at universal, when mickey was walkinf away we showed the genie pass and he came back just for her, etc. What on earth is this about? Please show me the posts where i said we went through another organization

I think people are getting the poster quoted above mixed up with the original poster on this thread:
http://www.disboards.com/threads/wish-trip-through-kids-wish-das-question.3291537/#post-51665119

THAT poster posted on several threads and went thru another organization which is NOT one of the organizations that. Has a relationship with Disney.

This thread has been a relatively good and reasonable discussion so far.
Please let's keep it that way, so it doesn't need to be closed.

 

[OurBigTrip]

People keep bringing up wish kids, just wanted to point out that many wish kids who might return to the park dont "qualify" for DAS.

Nor should they necessarily. It depend on needs, not diagnosis.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I'd like to know when it became the norm to accommodate intellectual disabilities, including Autism and ADHD, at amusement parks. Other than in educational situations, we don't accommodate these disabilities anywhere else. You can't skip to the front of the line at a busy restaurant that has a wait for a table. There isn't an alternate waiting area to wait for a city bus. There isn't a separate line at the grocery store. So why is it acceptable to be able to do all of these in an amusement park?

Because it can be done - that's kind of the idea behind the ADA, i.e., where accommodations can be provided, they must be.

 

[aejammers]

Because it can be done - that's kind of the idea behind the ADA, i.e., where accommodations can be provided, they must be.

But that doesn't make sense. I'm not trying to be argumentative because I have genuinely been wondering about this. The grocery store could have a separate disability line, but they don't. The restaurant could allow a family with cognitive disabilities to skip to the front of the line, but they don't. So I'm wondering why the amusement park must make this accommodation.

 

[knitngurl]

Keep in mind, the parents suing Disney are those with children who have severe autism and literally can't comprehend why they can't ride over and over. Picture a 16 year old kid who weighs 200 lbs basically foaming at the mouth pushing his way back through the line. This is far different from a child who has mild autism and can be coaxed into moving along. The problem is that children who have mild sensory disorders are being labeled as disabled and that is clearly not the case.

Here I think the burden still lies WITH THE PARENTS and not the theme park. At 16 even a child with severe autism would have had to experience some degree of waiting somehere in life. I work with kids on the spectrum in addition to my own child, and we have social stories about waiting in line for the freaking water fountain, so I can't imagine the parents can't work on something for a ride unless the jut want special (not equal) treatment.

 

[Disneylvr]

But that doesn't make sense. I'm not trying to be argumentative because I have genuinely been wondering about this. The grocery store could have a separate disability line, but they don't. The restaurant could allow a family with cognitive disabilities to skip to the front of the line, but they don't. So I'm wondering why the amusement park must make this accommodation.

An accommodation doesn't have to be "skip to the front of the line." At a restaurant it can mean giving the family a beeper so they can wait in a quieter area or in a unused dining area for example. And I have seen disability lines at the grocery store for wheelchairs so some disabilities are accommodated with a separate line. In my area all grocery stores have self checkout along with the regular lines so that even during the busiest times the wait is never longer than 15 minutes. This isn't an accommodation for the cognitively disabled but does help reduce wait times for all. Our local zoo provides a social story for kids with autism and will make additional accommodations (non-specified) if families contact the zoo 24 hours prior to visit. Most area attractions have and will make reasonable accommodations for ALL disabilities. AMC theaters has a sensory friendly movie once a month. I think you might find out a lot of places have accommodations in place but you just aren't aware of them because they aren't being discussed and debated like Disney and the DAS. I am very saddened by negative debate and publicity these lawsuits have caused in regards to autism and cognitive disabilities. Please know most of are not demanding "front of the line" and are extremely happy with the DAS. As parents we also share a mutual responsibility for preparing our loved one for these social experiences.

 

[OurBigTrip]

But that doesn't make sense. I'm not trying to be argumentative because I have genuinely been wondering about this. The grocery store could have a separate disability line, but they don't. The restaurant could allow a family with cognitive disabilities to skip to the front of the line, but they don't. So I'm wondering why the amusement park must make this accommodation.

Because when you're talking a restaurant or a grocery store, it's a much

An accommodation doesn't have to be "skip to the front of the line." At a restaurant it can mean giving the family a beeper so they can wait in a quieter area or in a unused dining area for example. And I have seen disability lines at the grocery store for wheelchairs so some disabilities are accommodated with a separate line. In my area all grocery stores have self checkout along with the regular lines so that even during the busiest times the wait is never longer than 15 minutes. This isn't an accommodation for the cognitively disabled but does help reduce wait times for all. Our local zoo provides a social story for kids with autism and will make additional accommodations (non-specified) if families contact the zoo 24 hours prior to visit. Most area attractions have and will make reasonable accommodations for ALL disabilities. AMC theaters has a sensory friendly movie once a month. I think you might find out a lot of places have accommodations in place but you just aren't aware of them because they aren't being discussed and debated like Disney and the DAS. I am very saddened by negative debate and publicity these lawsuits have caused in regards to autism and cognitive disabilities. Please know most of are not demanding "front of the line" and are extremely happy with the DAS. As parents we also share a mutual responsibility for preparing our loved one for these social experiences.

Excellent examples!

As to your last sentence, IMO it reinforces my opinion that too many people, including those that filed the lawsuit, mistranslate "accommodation" into "best possible accommodation". Few, including me, would disagree that the best possible accommodation for all disabled people would be immediate access. However, no business, including Disney, is required to provide the best possible accommodation. They have to balance the needs of all guests, not just disabled guests, and that will usually mean meeting the requirements of the law and little or nothing more.

There is also the misguided notion that accommodations are somehow supposed to make up for the difficulties of every day life. As nice as that would be, that is not the purpose of accommodations. Too many people want to just walk in the gates, go from ride to ride with little to no wait, no planning, etc. They seem to think that non-disabled families do this, so they should be able to as well. Aside from the fact that I don't know a single person that doesn't plan their days at Disney to make their trip more enjoyable, it would be irrelevant. How the non-disabled handle their parks days is irrelevant to how the disabled might do it.

Even one of the plaintiffs in the lawsuit, prior to filing, stated on a blog that of course the GAC was more than what was required, but it made things so easy, it just needed to be brought back. Well, the ADA doesn't require easy access, it requires access, and as you've noted, the DAS provides that.

 

[SueM in MN]

An accommodation doesn't have to be "skip to the front of the line." At a restaurant it can mean giving the family a beeper so they can wait in a quieter area or in a unused dining area for example. And I have seen disability lines at the grocery store for wheelchairs so some disabilities are accommodated with a separate line. In my area all grocery stores have self checkout along with the regular lines so that even during the busiest times the wait is never longer than 15 minutes. This isn't an accommodation for the cognitively disabled but does help reduce wait times for all. Our local zoo provides a social story for kids with autism and will make additional accommodations (non-specified) if families contact the zoo 24 hours prior to visit. Most area attractions have and will make reasonable accommodations for ALL disabilities. AMC theaters has a sensory friendly movie once a month. I think you might find out a lot of places have accommodations in place but you just aren't aware of them because they aren't being discussed and debated like Disney and the DAS. I am very saddened by negative debate and publicity these lawsuits have caused in regards to autism and cognitive disabilities. Please know most of are not demanding "front of the line" and are extremely happy with the DAS. As parents we also share a mutual responsibility for preparing our loved one for these social experiences.

The only place I have seen a wheelchair line in a grocery store or a restaurant is where the regular line is too narrow or too high for people using wheelchairs.
That line is not just for people using wheelchairs, it is open for use to anyone. But, it is often the only line that the person in a wheelchair can use, so even if another line has a shorter wait, they don't have the option of using that line.
Many of those other accommodations don't provide a shorter wait time, as you mention.

I agree that the lawsuit has caused a lot of negative public debate about autism, cognitive disabilities and all disabilities in general.
The lawsuit basically threw people with non-cognitive disabilities under the bus, which pits people with different disabilities against each other. And, the discussion is painting people with a broad brush, so many people are assuming that everyone feels the way the small number of people who participated in the lawsuit feel.

 

[Disneylvr]

The only place I have seen a wheelchair line in a grocery store or a restaurant is where the regular line is too narrow or too high for people using wheelchairs.
That line is not just for people using wheelchairs, it is open for use to anyone. But, it is often the only line that the person in a wheelchair can use, so even if another line has a shorter wait, they don't have the option of using that line.

This might only be true at my grocery store but I have often seen them transfer customers to other lines to lessen the wait for a customer using a wheelchair or ECV in the designated line. Because like you said, it is the only line they can use.

 

[kaytieeldr]

N/M

 

[SueM in MN]

This might only be true at my grocery store but I have often seen them transfer customers to other lines to lessen the wait for a customer using a wheelchair or ECV in the designated line. Because like you said, it is the only line they can use.

Your experience apparently differs from ours.
The only time I have seen people moved out of those lines in my experience is to even out the lines when some lines are longer than others. The person/people with wheelchairs don't normally move since they can't. Then end result might possibly be a shorter wait for them if enough people ahead of them move, but that is not the intent of moving people around.