"Disney Faulted in Disability Access Complaints"

[OurBigTrip]

I have to admit, if I were at dinner and someone had an iPad going at top volume I would stare. And then ask to move or ask the manager to ask them to turn it down/off. Same thing if someone was being loudly disruptive at a movie.

Same here. I totally understand the child needing to use the iPad or other device to aid in self-regulation, but it needn't be disruptive to everyone around them.

 

[Jedana]

I have been lurking and reading for years now. I love this board. Today I feel the need to post.
I have 2 kiddos on the spectrum. One needs accommodations the other does not.
So here are a few questions I feel need blunt answers.
We don't always get accommodations how do we make it trough a store/resturant/ daily life.

- We make it by having people stare at us and judge us everywhere we go. I just do care if I ruin your resturant meal because we have the right to go out and eat where ever we want. Do I try to keep it all under wraps. Yes I do then I get judged for giving my children tablets instead of talking to them. BTW one is non verbal. Yes, you have the right to go out and eat. But your kid does not have the right to throw food, grab food off other people's tables or scream at the top of their lungs constantly at the restaurant. (Not that YOUR kid does that, I'm saying a general you.)
- I don't take my nonverbal one to the movies. There is really no point to that. The other one is very reactive during movies and at times I'm sure he is disruptive. What can you do. If he's disruptive, you take him to the special showings, where they do lights up for example. You do not have the right to disrupt everyone's experience in the theater.
- the grocery store used to be an adventure. I'm sure it will be soon again. But until my youngesture, who is 5, gets to big to fit in the cart I will continue to put him there and just not really care what other people are wispering or the "this child should be walking" posts on facebook. Who cares what people whisper or comment on FB? I put my kids in carts until they were too big for me to lift, or we used the "car" carts.
-Why do we want accomidations at disney. Well we sometimes want them for the general publics comfort not ours. You people stare and comment. You judge and call these special needs kids misbehaved or spoiled. Our kids make you and your kids uncomfortable. I don't think anyone here disagrees with the need for accommodations for special needs children. However, even special needs children need direction and rules.
We are scared that our child might hurt someone or make someone's child uncomfortable. What is the general publics response "well maybe they just shouldn't go to disney." Your child has the same rights to go to Disney as anyone else's. What they do not have the right to do is disrupt other people's enjoyment, any more than the newly turned 21 year olds have the right to be drunk and puking in the bushes, disrupting your child's enjoyment.

Do I feel the system is abused..sure. Do I think it is abused by adults with no kids. Yep. But I'm not on here to discuss the DAS. I was here to answer questions. I often find the most difficult part of having a child with a "invisible" disability Is dealing with public ridicule and embarssment. BTW if you live with autism it is not invisible I can pick them out of a crowd.
The number one bit of advice I give all spectrum parents who are struggling with the embarrassment.
"When everyone is staring at you and you are embarrassed remember you will never see any of those people ever again"

Your right it is my responsibility that is why some people don't want to wait in line with their ASD child.
Is it disneys responsability. According to the ADA yes. If a child swings his body around or jumps like crazy because that is their stim they might run into someone or knock someone over. That stim is part of their disability and by law has to be accommodated. Sorry. Your child's disability rights end where my child's rights begin. Sorry.
If a child does not and can not understand wait one more hour it can cause a massive meltdown. Not a temper tantrum or a fit but a meltdown. For those who don't know the difference Google it. That is your problem, not everyone else in the line. You have to figure out a way to deal with the meltdown.
Yep the volume is cranked up on the mini. Can't get him to stop and can't lock it so... Oh well. That's just rude. You can stop it, by not giving him the tablet unless he has the volume down, or get him to wear headphones. It is that simple. You are the adult.
I don't feel I have the right to disrupt because I feel I'm being judged. I don't care because my child can't help it. He did it on a cross country airline flight, what can you do. I sat in the back where it was noisier. The I don't care attitude is what makes people angry. You attempt to stop the behaviors, and people are more understanding. Saying "well, I can't fix it so I don't care"...well...I personally hate that crap.
And yes people judge no matter what. Damned if I do and all that.

My what can you do attitude was for disruption.
The accomidations for a stimmer is disney problem because of the close quarters lines create. Access. ADA law. if there is space no danger, no space danger. You clearly don't understand the law but that is ok. Disney has given ACCESS to the rides. You purchase a ticket and you have access to the rides. They don't promise that you can ride immediately, or that little Johnny can scream and bite people in line.
Try not to take things out of context. I don't have a what can you do attitude for injury. So get all unhuffy.
So special needs parents are attacked no matter what. We need accomidations so our kids get access. People think they are unfair. We don't get accomidations situations can happen that are good for no one. It's not the needing and receiving accommodations that gets people riled up. It's the "my kid has it so hard and Disney owes him" attitude that people hate.

So once again damned if you do and all that.

Hay you all ask why why why I'm telling you why. If you don't want to know don't ask. Just pass your judgement and move along.

responses in red

 

[IRGOOFY2]

Oh I could turn it off but trust me the ipad is the least disruptive. We topically don't take him out till summer so we can eat outside.
My sone have vocal regulation problems so he does not. Ean to be so loud and I do tell him inside voice.
The das works fine for me. I didn't want to talk about it because this thread was about the lawsuit.
Lots of why should they get that. It's not fair yada yada.
Someone asked how we get trough other situations and why ASD kids should get accomidations. So I answered. Bluntly.

 

[IRGOOFY2]

"Your child's disability rights end where my child's rights begin. Sorry." - yes that is why some kids need accomidations.

"That is your problem, not everyone else in the line. You have to figure out a way to deal with the meltdown." - parents did figure out a way accomidations.

"That's just rude. You can stop it, by not giving him the tablet unless he has the volume down, or get him to wear headphones. It is that simple. You are the adult." - so are people on cell phones. The tablet is also his AAC so can't turn it off. I do try to keep the volume down. He won't wear headphones. I am the adult protecting my sons communication rights and accomidations.

" Your child has the same rights to go to Disney as anyone else's. What they do not have the right to do is disrupt other people's enjoyment, any more than the newly turned 21 year olds have the right to be drunk and puking in the bushes, disrupting your child's enjoyment." - this right here is the problem. You just compared someone's disability to a drunk 21 year old. How is that even the same. Seriously!

"Disney has given ACCESS to the rides. You purchase a ticket and you have access to the rides. They don't promise that you can ride immediately, or that little Johnny can scream and bite people in line." - not correct. Disney has given access to the park property that contains the rides. To access the rides you must wait in the line. Some kids need more specific accomidations. Do I like it. Not really I think the cline can learn to wait using baby steps at say local carnivals. But I don't know that for sure. Maybe the parent has tried and the child can't wait.


No I'm not a troll. I have been reading this board since 2006. When I planed my honeymoon. Like I said I felt the need to post. I have 2 asd kids and I see the many struggles parents have.

 

[Aladora]

Yep the volume is cranked up on the mini. Can't get him to stop and can't lock it so... Oh well.

I've stayed away from posting on this thread because quite honestly I did not have the energy for it but this attitude annoyed me enough that I had to post.

I have an autistic son. We have taken him to disneyland quite a few times and when the GAC was around we used it and now that it is the DAS we use that. He brings his Nintendo DS to the parks and we let him bring his tablet to restaurants.

But here's the difference. At no point in time so we allow HIS accommodations impact on the enjoyment of others. He is not allowed to use any electronics unless he uses headphones and if he is unable to act in a manner that is appropriate for the situation then we leave. The "oh well, I can't do anything" attitude drives me nuts.

My son needs accommodations but the world is not going to change for him because he is autistic. It is up to us as parents to do everything we can to make sure he can work within society, not the other way around.

 

[buffettgirl]

You need to more fully understand the ADA and your child's rights under that law. You're so far off base with just about everything that it's worthless even having a discussion with you over it, because you'll never understand that you're just wrong. If you feel like your life is hard, and you're being judged, it's probably because you come off with this same attitude in every encounter you have, everywhere you go.

Good luck with your life and your situation. It's going to be a struggle for you, no doubt.

 

[IRGOOFY2]

I'm not wrong but that is ok.
He is 5 he will learn.
My life is not difficult. I love it.

The volume for now is what it is. Won't use headphones.
Every child with autism is different. What works for mine will not for another. I don't judge.

You all have a pleasant evening. I'm sure I will still lurk and read. I do enjoy the board when I have the time.

 

[2tinkerbell]

You say that people are staring at your children and are being judgmental. Personally, if I saw someone flapping, spinning, jumping, screaming, etc. I would look at what was happening and I would probably be judgmental about it, even though I have a child with similar challenges. If I was sitting at a restaurant or on an airplane and someone had the volume of their iPad turned up (or any device for that matter), I would look. Airlines have noted that one use earplugs when using electronic devices. Whether I got judgmental or not would depend a lot on the actions/attitude of the parent. People will complain and be judgmental when one encroaches (correct word???) on their rights. There is no getting around it.

One of the things that I've worked very hard with my DD on is fitting into society, both in appearance and behavior. I want, and my DD wants people to accept her as a person first, not a disability. That is why we accommodate a lot ourselves. We don't demand, etc. because that brings more attention to the fact that my daughter has challenges. It makes it so that people treat her like she is disabled and makes her more disabled - something she doesn't like. When my child was younger, I would remove her from the situations when inappropriate behavior occurred, even if it was her "right" to be there. Her behavior, whether she could control it or not, was not acceptable, bottom line. We are always talking about what is appropriate and what the expectations are. I use "teachable moments" and "social autopsies" all the time. I have a child who has disabilities, not a disabled child. There is a world of difference. My DD's challenges do not define who she is.

Edited to add: I tried not to be judgmental of you, but, your attitude is not beneficial to you or your child. This is just the attitude that I posted about in my previous post to this thread. I don't understand how your child is going to learn differently if you allow him to have his iPad with the volume turned up. If you child wants the iPad, he wears headphone or earphones of some kind. If he wants to ride an attraction at Disney, he needs to wait his turn (either in the actual line or with the DAS accommodation).

 

[SMD]

Your right it is my responsibility that is why some people don't want to wait in line with their ASD child.
Is it disneys responsability. According to the ADA yes. If a child swings his body around or jumps like crazy because that is their stim they might run into someone or knock someone over. That stim is part of their disability and by law has to be accommodated. Sorry.
If a child does not and can not understand wait one more hour it can cause a massive meltdown. Not a temper tantrum or a fit but a meltdown. For those who don't know the difference Google it.

Disney doesn't have to accommodate parents who don't want to wait in line with their child. Disney needs to accommodate children who can't wait in the physical queue. Not wanting to wait in the line is not blocking you from accessing an attraction, that's a choice.

From reading this board I've learned that a meltdown can involve a child throwing themselves on the ground to intentional, injury themselves or a child refusing to continue walking away from an attraction. I've also learned that in most cases, a CM simply allowing a child to go on a ride will end a meltdown and allow the family to continue. Very few parents who describe a child having a meltdown have said that they left the park due to the meltdown causing a major, ongoing issue. Maybe if there were a medical definition of meltdown then simply using that word would grant the accommodations you want. But it's use or misuse by so many parents makes that word too broad.

Ya not in the context I was using it.
So yes hitting and knocking people over would be disruptive.
But disruptive in this conversation was my overly loud kids ipad. So once again out of context. Try not to do that.
So I need to explain a little more. When a child is stimming they are not always aware of their surroundings. "In their own world" it is part of the disability. Autism is a disability. So yes by ADA law it needs to be accomidated. To bad you can't see that.

So as a parent it is not your responsibility to be aware of your child's surroundings? You're saying that the ADA needs to accommodate extra personal space in a public area for your child to swing his arms? Should this be a roped off area that needs to be designated or should a child just jump and swing his arms while moving through the park with a floating bubble? Should Disney reduce the park capacity by a few people for everyone who needs a personal bubble?

 

[Gracie09]

Ya not in the context I was using it.
So yes hitting and knocking people over would be disruptive.
But disruptive in this conversation was my overly loud kids ipad. So once again out of context. Try not to do that.
So I need to explain a little more. When a child is stimming they are not always aware of their surroundings. "In their own world" it is part of the disability. Autism is a disability. So yes by ADA law it needs to be accomidated. To bad you can't see that.

actually hitting people and knocking them over is a crime. Your child could be charged with battery and assault. Just because they have a disability doesn't mean they have no consequences for their actions. My cousin has various mental health issues and is disabled. He has been charged with crimes several times that were the direct result of his disability. Fortunately for him, his parents have the money to pay for private mental health facilities and the judges have let him go there instead of jail.
Your son is five now, in ten years he will be the size of an adult. People won't be so forgiving.

Oh and your son's loud ipad would be detrimental to my dds disability. She has an auditory processing disorder and to be seated near a loud ipad would mean she could not interact with people around her. So whose disability trumps whose?

 

[aaarcher86]

My what can you do attitude was for disruption.
The accomidations for a stimmer is disney problem because of the close quarters lines create. Access. ADA law. if there is space no danger, no space danger. You clearly don't understand the law but that is ok.
Try not to take things out of context. I don't have a what can you do attitude for injury. So get all unhuffy.
So special needs parents are attacked no matter what. We need accomidations so our kids get access. People think they are unfair. We don't get accomidations situations can happen that are good for no one.
So once again damned if you do and all that.

Hay you all ask why why why I'm telling you why. If you don't want to know don't ask. Just pass your judgement and move along.

Access is the law, but you as a parent don't get to decide what outrageous accommodations are given. There are limits. Lines don't go away magically without impacting other people and ride operations, which means the law doesn't require it.

"Your child's disability rights end where my child's rights begin. Sorry." - yes that is why some kids need accomidations.

"That is your problem, not everyone else in the line. You have to figure out a way to deal with the meltdown." - parents did figure out a way accomidations.

"That's just rude. You can stop it, by not giving him the tablet unless he has the volume down, or get him to wear headphones. It is that simple. You are the adult." - so are people on cell phones. The tablet is also his AAC so can't turn it off. I do try to keep the volume down. He won't wear headphones. I am the adult protecting my sons communication rights and accomidations.

" Your child has the same rights to go to Disney as anyone else's. What they do not have the right to do is disrupt other people's enjoyment, any more than the newly turned 21 year olds have the right to be drunk and puking in the bushes, disrupting your child's enjoyment." - this right here is the problem. You just compared someone's disability to a drunk 21 year old. How is that even the same. Seriously!

"Disney has given ACCESS to the rides. You purchase a ticket and you have access to the rides. They don't promise that you can ride immediately, or that little Johnny can scream and bite people in line." - not correct. Disney has given access to the park property that contains the rides. To access the rides you must wait in the line. Some kids need more specific accomidations. Do I like it. Not really I think the cline can learn to wait using baby steps at say local carnivals. But I don't know that for sure. Maybe the parent has tried and the child can't wait.


No I'm not a troll. I have been reading this board since 2006. When I planed my honeymoon. Like I said I felt the need to post. I have 2 asd kids and I see the many struggles parents have.

I think this is where the disconnect is. You feel as though you're entitled to everything you need as an 'accommodation' for your son and everyone else be damned. The law doesn't require that as you have a personal responsibility to work within reason in public. Your kids can't cause a major ruckus somewhere 'because autism.' Someone with autism doesn't have more rights than someone without.

To access Disney's rides you wait in the most minimal line possible. In fact, it's the same line that people in the lawsuit went into in the first place. Having autism doesn't eliminate social or procedural norms. There's no overriding the line because autism. There's no being immediately seated in front of an hours worth of reservations because autism. There's no going immediately up to Santa in the mall and bypassing the wait because autism. Accommodations only go so far. And yes, sometimes the answer is Disney not being the best choice. And it's not because people hate the disabled, it's because sometimes, no matter how normal we want our kids to be or how much we want them to experience something, they just can't. Through no fault of anyone's, sometimes they just will not thrive in certain situations and instead of yelling and stomping out feet we should be working on ways to help or taking them somewhere that's in their best interest.

My daughter doesn't tolerate the bowling alley. The lights, the sounds, and the shoes for whatever reason just send her over the edge. I can't allow her to run all the way up to the pins and knock them down with her hands and yell that it'd be a proper accommodation and looks be damned. Are there things they could do to make it more comfortable for her? Sure. I could demand they turn down the music, turn off the laser lights, and allow her to wear her own shoes. Would I look like a lunatic? Probably. Will I ever expect a business to go to the the length of impacting other people to that extent? No.

Instead of saying "who cares we will never see these people again" in unpleasant situations, a simple "I'm sorry, she/has autism" goes a hell of a long way. It's the parents that don't even try to be considerate that I find obnoxious. Not the kids.

 

[redberyl]

Irgoofy2, my child doesnt have autism, but she has a trach. Sometimes she gets to coughing and hacking, sounds like shes dying, very loud and disruptive. she needs suctioned, a nousy machine and the sound of the snot sucking through the tubing is disgusting if youre not used to it. Of course people stare, some are concerned and others curious, its natural to stare, stop being so sensitive. She cant help it, but thats no excuse for disturbing others. Who wants to hear her machine during a movie, or the sucking snot while they are eating? Whether she can help it or not, its rude to stay, so we step out to take care of her needs. Its called being polite.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Do I feel the system is abused..sure. Do I think it is abused by adults with no kids. Yep.

It's unreasonable to think the system is abused by adults without kids unless you also realize it's abused by adults with kids.

Ya not in the context I was using it.
So yes hitting and knocking people over would be disruptive.
But disruptive in this conversation was my overly loud kids ipad. So once again out of context. Try not to do that.
So I need to explain a little more. When a child is stimming they are not always aware of their surroundings. "In their own world" it is part of the disability. Autism is a disability. So yes by ADA law it needs to be accomidated. To bad you can't see that.

The ADA requires reasonable, not personalized, accommodations.
Disney accommodates hidden disabilities including autism by, when the guest is unable to wait in line, providing the DAS so the guest can wait somewhere other than the line until a relatively few minutes before boarding.
Disney is not the parent.
The parent bears the brunt of the responsibility in providing everything for their child.
An excellent solution is to create your own buffer zone for the child if a ten minute line causes stimming.
Rethinking a theme park visit for a child who stims with that short wait should be a strong consideration.
An overly-loud iPad is not a reasonable accommodation anywhere around other people.

ADA = access, not excess.

You don't see me judging the obese person who is recieving accomidations.

You just did.

 

[lanejudy]

Folks, so far we've had fairly polite discussions on what can be an emotional topic. Let's keep it that way.

 

[zela02]

I have a 12-year-old who is significantly impaired by autism, a visual impairment and mild CP. It has been our stance from early on that she would experience the world - shopping, traveling, movies, restaurants, etc. We spent years acclimating her to these things. If she started screaming, or otherwise excessively disturbing patrons, we left. She has been carried out of more restaurants, movies, and various other situations, than you can imagine. It may sound mean, but she figured out either she learns to self-regulate, or we go home. We didn't even attempt Disney until she was 9, because there was no way she was ready. We weren't putting ourselves, or anyone else, through that.

As a parent of a special needs child, I am not owed anything. Our trip is not any more important than anyone else's. If there are situations our daughter truly can't handle, we don't do them. I'm not trying to fit a round peg in a square hole here, but giving her the best chance to truly experience the world around her. I know so many parents who chalk every single behavior up to their child's diagnosis. In my opinion, that's nothing more than lazy parenting. Having a disability doesn't automatically trump the need for manners, respect and teaching a child to function, in as much as they are truly able, within societal norms.

 

[SueM in MN]

actually hitting people and knocking them over is a crime. Your child could be charged with battery and assault. Just because they have a disability doesn't mean they have no consequences for their actions. My cousin has various mental health issues and is disabled. He has been charged with crimes several times that were the direct result of his disability. Fortunately for him, his parents have the money to pay for private mental health facilities and the judges have let him go there instead of jail.
Your son is five now, in ten years he will be the size of an adult. People won't be so forgiving.

Oh and your son's loud ipad would be detrimental to my dds disability. She has an auditory processing disorder and to be seated near a loud ipad would mean she could not interact with people around her. So whose disability trumps whose?

And, there have been many people over the years who have posted to ask about noise reducing ear muffs/headphones for their child with autism who can't tolerate loud sounds. (I wish I had a royalty for every time I suggested Peltor earmuffs).
If a parent knows that loud sound are a trigger for their child, they need to take the responsibility to do something to help their child cope with that (and most do). If If a child is making loud sounds with their voice, their body or something like an iPad, it is the parents' responsibility to deal with that too.
So, if they don't, whose disability gets accommodated - the person with autism who has problems with making loud noises or the person with autism who has problems with being exposed to loud noises?

My daughter is not autistic, but has many other challenges. She has been watching clips of the new Cinderella movie and wants to see it. While she's been watching the clips, she gets excited and she squeals and screams. She already knows if she does that in the theater, she will be going out. The squealing and loud noises are part of her disability, but it's not fair to other people in the theater to make them listen to it. Her right to 'disabled behavior' ends when it interferes with other people's rights.
She has much more control now than she did when she was 5, but that's because we didn't just say, "she makes noise because of her disability; deal with it." We worked on it by doing things to help her learn control (including leaving the theater if she was too noisy).
Things don't magically change with time and a 5 yr old who can't be controlled is going to grow into a strong 16 yr old and adult who can't be controlled. I know people who have had to call the police on their own child because he was harming them and they could not control him.
It shouldn't get to that point, but can if every behavior is just excused because it's due to the disability.

I'm not a lawyer (and don't play one on TV), but Gracie09 is correct from everything I have read. Laws may be a bit different in different states, but in general, if the child commits a crime, they don't just get a free pass because of their disability. There are consequences.
And, the parents could also be held liable if they knew or should have known something like that would happen and failed to take steps to prevent it.
Expecting the world to take all the steps is not reasonable. That would include things the child might do that could hurt someone in line - some of the things people have done to prevent their child from annoying/hurting/bothering other people in line have included using other members of their group as a buffer or using a wheelchair or stroller to help provide the child with a safe haven. Those behaviors - hitting out, swinging on the chains - or stimming are not just autistic behavior. They are comforting to the person, but are also communication that the situation is stressful, exciting, boring or overwhelming for the person.

All that said, this thread has been mostly discussion and not argument, so please, let's keep it going in a constructive direction.

 

[Gracie09]

And, there have been many people over the years who have posted to ask about noise reducing ear muffs/headphones for their child with autism who can't tolerate loud sounds. (I wish I had a royalty for every time I suggested Peltor earmuffs).
If a parent knows that loud sound are a trigger for their child, they need to take the responsibility to do something to help their child cope with that (and most do). If If a child is making loud sounds with their voice, their body or something like an iPad, it is the parents' responsibility to deal with that too.
So, if they don't, whose disability gets accommodated - the person with autism who has problems with making loud noises or the person with autism who has problems with being exposed to loud noises?ction.

We have a set of those earmuffs. They work great in many situations for dd. we hope for the first time those June she will be able to go on buzz light year (it's too overwhelming for her now) and watch the fireworks. It's kind of ironic. At school she wears a headset to amplify sound, specifically the teacher, outside of school she wears a headset to drown out sound. But as her parent it's my job to do what I can for her but minimize it's impact on those around her.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

I think there is a small subset of families with special needs that also have an entitlement attitude, and those are the ones that we hear about. They feel like the world owes them because they were dealt a hardship. They also don't like being told no. I don't think that subset is big enough to do anything other than get people talking. I don't see any meaningful, positive change coming from their outcries.

 

[the guardian]

The attacks on the poster who has children with severe autism by those who have children with milder disorders really disgusts me given it was the abuse (and continued abuse) by the latter that led to the GAC being taken away from those children who are never going to understand the concept of having to wait. Let's face it, if the ADA does change its ways and allow Disney to require a letter from a doctor for proof and extent of disability, I would imagine a lot of your children will no longer quality for these passes that were originally intended for the truly disabled.

 

[Allison]

Sue-I always appreciate your perspective.