"Disney Faulted in Disability Access Complaints"

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I was trying, and possibly failing, to point out that FP+ does help quite a bit over the traditional FP system especially used in conjunction with the DAS. I was saying that with all the work we've done on past trips, plus FP+ which I got to use with my dad on his trip last Oct., there is some hope of a trip being possible again.- When the DAS was first announced, there wasn't FP+, so it was a lot harder. To the other posters who pointed out that our situation is no different than anyone with a toddler- it's totally different, but if y'all choose to walk around completely devoid of any compassion or empathy, that's on y'all. The fact is that everyone is not the same, and trying to navigate situations is a lot more complex for some than others. I don't want to get into the whole my disability is worse game, because its completely pointless and harmful. But it would be nice if judgement and blanket statements could potentially be suspended for short periods of time, long enough to at least admit that one solution does not fit all. I'm not asking for anyone to fix it, or make it better- just to try to comprehend that the DAS isn't always effective for everyone.

People can have compassion and empathy without agreeing with you.

No one is acting like everyone can work the system the same or that it's not more difficult for some. It's the expectation that anyone is owed something more because of their limitations that people don't agree with. There is no magic at Disney that's going to make everyone's issues go away, or make everything workable. But they've accommodated what they can and need to without a significant impact to ALL the guests at the park.

And for whatever reason, it seems Disney is the only place where people expect these over the top modifications.
 
I have overheard many people make comments about how we rented a wheelchair just to push our kids around in!
He has low muscle tone which means he can run around like any other boy -- until he can't.
Duplicated from another forum:
Text suitable for a T shirt or a wheelchair placard: "I can walk -- only to first base."
 
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We've used both the GAC and DAS for our 7 year old son. And I'll be honest, the GAC felt like magic. We had this epic vacation where we pretty much never had to wait. It was wonderful...and also something we understood was probably above and beyond what we would ever have expected.

The DAS ad FP+ worked out very well for our family. We certainly didn't walk on to rides, but by allowing the accommodation it provided, my son was able enjoy time in the park and some rides that he normally would not have been able to emotionally or physically been able to enjoy. I appreciate Disney providing this option for my family because like others have mentioned, being a special needs family is HARD daily and we don't really expect other people or places to do anything about it because it's our struggle and responsibility. We know and accept our limits with places and experiences. Without the DAS, we would probably not attempt a visit to Disney, but with the DAS, it's something we can work hard to give to our son. But if it wasn't there, I wouldn't begrudge Disney; I'd just put that on our lists of things that just wouldn't work for our family. I'm grateful for the DAS because I certainly don't expect the world to usually accommodate the hidden needs of my son, and I am grateful when they do!

I'm really sorry to see that the changes have removed Disney as a viable option for some families. I don't doubt for a second that it no longer works for some people. That's heartbreaking and really sad and frustrating, especially since Disney is so good for people's hearts and lots of people of developmental boosts after going to Disney. But I guess for me, I don't see how that translates into a lawsuit. I don't feel like Disney owes me a smooth-as-possible vacation, and I appreciate that they have something in place to help try to make it work for my family.
 
I have still not heard, after all this time, one single valid reason why the DAS doesn't work well to cover a whole range of accommodations other than immediate access to any ride, at any time, as often as wanted; an accommodation that the GAC was never intended to provide. Entirely eliminating wait times is well outside the scope of reasonable accommodations, and has been proven (in other examples, with other parks) to be unnecessary under ADA, as the nature of the facility is such that no one who enters the park has the expectation that they'll access a ride immediately.

What the DAS provides:
A flexible accommodation that allows the holder to wait in the place of his or her choosing and to access the fast pass line when that wait time is completed.

It isn't the DAS that doesn't work. It's the disability that doesn't allow the family to access the amusement park in a way that suits their desire to access rides immediately. That's really the only issue here, and what the lawsuit is all about.

Disney doesn't provide the DAS (or the GAC) because it is magical to do so. They provide it, because it is the law. We can't have it both ways. If we want to support laws that provide access, and strengthen those laws, then we must remove the notion that we're being given something special. We also don't need to sit down and take it if an accommodation isn't reasonable, but in this case, it is providing everything that people have requested - minus immediate access.
 
My DD and I had a discussion this morning about the notion that some people want what they want when they want it. It is really a sense of entitlement that some people have. Add to that sense of entitlement a family member with "special needs" and I think that is what the lawsuit is about.

One of the issues my DD had when she was younger was that if you did it once, you did it the same way every time afterwards. I can understand that because I know how my DD processes information and navigates her world. However, it always isn't possible. For example, one time on Jungle Cruise the Skipper let my DD "drive" the boat. My DD expected that every time she went on Jungle Cruise she would be able to "drive" the boat. I have always tried to set the expectations up front of an activity. In this case, I had to tell my DD that she could go on Jungle Cruise only if she could sit like the other passengers and that she could not help the Skipper. My DD understood the expectation. My DD went on Jungle Cruise and when we got onto the boat, I could tell she was going to ask the Skipper if she could drive it. I took her hand and we exited the boat. Bottom line, that was not appropriate and she knew it. Several situations like this and she finally got the message that it doesn't and won't always be the same. I have not allowed my DD an activity if she couldn't be flexible in her expectations.

I think that is part of the lawsuit as well. It is hard and some of the children have come to expect the same thing to happen every time. It is a matter of what is familiar to them and they know what to expect and how to do it. But, that isn't life. There are some things that are the same and can be the same, but, many things are not the same every time nor can they be the same every time. One simply can't have what they want when they want it. JMHO
 
That said, a few things in your post did catch my eye. 1) Free appropriate education starts at age 3. So your child may be eligible for preschool through the school district at no cost that will also include any supportive services (pt/ot.speech). Both my dds are a product of the public school integrated preschool. 2) If your child is under age 3, there should be early intervention services available to you at a low cost or free. Again, both my dds went through early intervention. Its a great program. You may already be taking advantage of these programs in your state, but if you're not, please look into them. I know its off topic, but I just wanted to make sure you knew there were resources out there that could allow you to cut back on some of the expensive lessons you are providing for your child.

I don't know if I mentioned it in my post, but I'm in Canada. Completely different system. For your first point, there is no free education until kindergarten starts (sometimes you can qualify for partial subsidies.) Up until then, you pay for childcare. This means we have to apply to waitlists in order to get a funded position within a daycare who participates in the program and allows BIs to attend. We still pay the regular daycare fees, which run about $900 a month for ours. There is some publicly funded speech. Right now the waitlists are sitting at about 6 months. When you do get in, it's 3 months on, 3 months off because they are so far behind. In order to take advantage of publicly funded speech, you are told not to access private speech therapies in the 3 months off. If you do, they assume you do not need the public program.

For your second point, under three in my province we have something called the Infant Development Program. This is free, and it includes a visit with a caseworker every 6 weeks. You can sometimes get one off referrals to a PT, but it's a several month wait. If you go private, you are paying out of pocket. Sometimes you can get employer health benefits (a $500/year cap is typical), to cover it. Because services like OT, PT and SLP are "paramedical" and not "medical", they are not covered under our healthcare (unless it's for something very specific like torticollis.) ABA isn't medical at all, so even though it's evidence based treatment, it isn't covered. Several years ago, however, there was a lawsuit brought against the province by autism parents to pay for treatment. We're very lucky to live in the province we do where we get funding to pay for about half of what is considered best practice, because not all provinces have funding. It's one of those things where some have funding on paper, but the waitlists can be so long it isn't really of much use. One province, up until very recently, decided which children received treatment via a lottery system. In my province, you don't qualify for funding until you get the diagnosis, which needs to be made by a team, and it's about a 12 month wait once you get the referral (and the funding is not retroactive.) If you can afford to pay 4000 upfront though, you can pay for a private assessment to get an earlier diagnosis in order to access the funding. There are still cuts being made though. I'm lucky that my son seems like he is going to be verbal, because they've just cut funding for assisted communication devices. A friend of ours just discovered that after being on the waitlist for 9 months to find out that they aren't funding them anymore.
 


It's important to keep in mind that requirements for disability accommodations vary by country. The DAS currently in use at both the Florida and California parks is based on U.S. law. This may or may not be similar to accommodations one is accustomed to at home if living outside of the U.S.
 
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I have been lurking and reading for years now. I love this board. Today I feel the need to post.
I have 2 kiddos on the spectrum. One needs accommodations the other does not.
So here are a few questions I feel need blunt answers.
We don't always get accommodations how do we make it trough a store/resturant/ daily life.

- We make it by having people stare at us and judge us everywhere we go. I just do care if I ruin your resturant meal because we have the right to go out and eat where ever we want. Do I try to keep it all under wraps. Yes I do then I get judged for giving my children tablets instead of talking to them. BTW one is non verbal.
- I don't take my nonverbal one to the movies. There is really no point to that. The other one is very reactive during movies and at times I'm sure he is disruptive. What can you do.
- the grocery store used to be an adventure. I'm sure it will be soon again. But until my youngesture, who is 5, gets to big to fit in the cart I will continue to put him there and just not really care what other people are wispering or the "this child should be walking" posts on facebook.
-Why do we want accomidations at disney. Well we sometimes want them for the general publics comfort not ours. You people stare and comment. You judge and call these special needs kids misbehaved or spoiled. Our kids make you and your kids uncomfortable.
We are scared that our child might hurt someone or make someone's child uncomfortable. What is the general publics response "well maybe they just shouldn't go to disney."

Do I feel the system is abused..sure. Do I think it is abused by adults with no kids. Yep. But I'm not on here to discuss the DAS. I was here to answer questions. I often find the most difficult part of having a child with a "invisible" disability Is dealing with public ridicule and embarssment. BTW if you live with autism it is not invisible I can pick them out of a crowd.
The number one bit of advice I give all spectrum parents who are struggling with the embarrassment.
"When everyone is staring at you and you are embarrassed remember you will never see any of those people ever again"
 
"When everyone is staring at you and you are embarrassed remember you will never see any of those people ever again"
This is how I feel about so many things in life. My friend and I once got muddy footprints on our butt because a previous guest walked on the POTC seat getting off the ride. She wanted to leave and I said, "So my butt is brown, I don't know these people!"

I have been lurking and reading for years now. I love this board. Today I feel the need to post.
I have 2 kiddos on the spectrum. One needs accommodations the other does not.
So here are a few questions I feel need blunt answers.
We don't always get accommodations how do we make it trough a store/resturant/ daily life.

- We make it by having people stare at us and judge us everywhere we go. I just do care if I ruin your resturant meal because we have the right to go out and eat where ever we want. Do I try to keep it all under wraps. Yes I do then I get judged for giving my children tablets instead of talking to them. BTW one is non verbal.
- I don't take my nonverbal one to the movies. There is really no point to that. The other one is very reactive during movies and at times I'm sure he is disruptive. What can you do.
- the grocery store used to be an adventure. I'm sure it will be soon again. But until my youngesture, who is 5, gets to big to fit in the cart I will continue to put him there and just not really care what other people are wispering or the "this child should be walking" posts on facebook.
-Why do we want accomidations at disney. Well we sometimes want them for the general publics comfort not ours. You people stare and comment. You judge and call these special needs kids misbehaved or spoiled. Our kids make you and your kids uncomfortable.
We are scared that our child might hurt someone or make someone's child uncomfortable. What is the general publics response "well maybe they just shouldn't go to disney."

Do I feel the system is abused..sure. Do I think it is abused by adults with no kids. Yep. But I'm not on here to discuss the DAS. I was here to answer questions. I often find the most difficult part of having a child with a "invisible" disability Is dealing with public ridicule and embarssment. BTW if you live with autism it is not invisible I can pick them out of a crowd.
The number one bit of advice I give all spectrum parents who are struggling with the embarrassment.
"When everyone is staring at you and you are embarrassed remember you will never see any of those people ever again"

Ok, wow. I don't think it's anyone place to judge if your kids use tablets in a restaurant or sit in a cart (as long as there's no safety warning that says your kid weighs too much for the front of the cart). If all people are doing is staring, I'm not sure it would bother me that much. Now, if the tablet has the volume up all the way, then that's a different situation. But the idea that you have some right to disrupt other people whenever and wherever you want because you perceive that you're being judged is ridiculous. And I agree with the general public that if you are scared that your child might hurt someone, and you feel that 1. it's Disney's job to prevent that with accommodations and 2. that the accommodations available don't prevent that then you probably shouldn't go to Disney. You are responsible for your child, no one else. Hurting someone else is completely unacceptable and that is your responsibility, not Disney's or the general public's.
 
I don't know if I mentioned it in my post, but I'm in Canada. Completely different system. For your first point, there is no free education until kindergarten starts (sometimes you can qualify for partial subsidies.) Up until then, you pay for childcare. This means we have to apply to waitlists in order to get a funded position within a daycare who participates in the program and allows BIs to attend. We still pay the regular daycare fees, which run about $900 a month for ours. There is some publicly funded speech. Right now the waitlists are sitting at about 6 months. When you do get in, it's 3 months on, 3 months off because they are so far behind. In order to take advantage of publicly funded speech, you are told not to access private speech therapies in the 3 months off. If you do, they assume you do not need the public program.

For your second point, under three in my province we have something called the Infant Development Program. This is free, and it includes a visit with a caseworker every 6 weeks. You can sometimes get one off referrals to a PT, but it's a several month wait. If you go private, you are paying out of pocket. Sometimes you can get employer health benefits (a $500/year cap is typical), to cover it. Because services like OT, PT and SLP are "paramedical" and not "medical", they are not covered under our healthcare (unless it's for something very specific like torticollis.) ABA isn't medical at all, so even though it's evidence based treatment, it isn't covered. Several years ago, however, there was a lawsuit brought against the province by autism parents to pay for treatment. We're very lucky to live in the province we do where we get funding to pay for about half of what is considered best practice, because not all provinces have funding. It's one of those things where some have funding on paper, but the waitlists can be so long it isn't really of much use. One province, up until very recently, decided which children received treatment via a lottery system. In my province, you don't qualify for funding until you get the diagnosis, which needs to be made by a team, and it's about a 12 month wait once you get the referral (and the funding is not retroactive.) If you can afford to pay 4000 upfront though, you can pay for a private assessment to get an earlier diagnosis in order to access the funding. There are still cuts being made though. I'm lucky that my son seems like he is going to be verbal, because they've just cut funding for assisted communication devices. A friend of ours just discovered that after being on the waitlist for 9 months to find out that they aren't funding them anymore.
Your right you didn't say anywhere you were from Canada. My esp isn't working to well right now. I know the system in Canada is different. I have a good friend on the waiting list for services for her daughter.
 
Your right it is my responsibility that is why some people don't want to wait in line with their ASD child.
Is it disneys responsability. According to the ADA yes. If a child swings his body around or jumps like crazy because that is their stim they might run into someone or knock someone over. That stim is part of their disability and by law has to be accommodated. Sorry.
If a child does not and can not understand wait one more hour it can cause a massive meltdown. Not a temper tantrum or a fit but a meltdown. For those who don't know the difference Google it.
Yep the volume is cranked up on the mini. Can't get him to stop and can't lock it so... Oh well.
I don't feel I have the right to disrupt because I feel I'm being judged. I don't care because my child can't help it. He did it on a cross country airline flight, what can you do. I sat in the back where it was noisier.
And yes people judge no matter what. Damned if I do and all that.
 
If a child swings his body around or jumps like crazy because that is their stim they might run into someone or knock someone over. That stim is part of their disability and by law has to be accommodated. Sorry.

No business, Disney included, has to accommodate any person that is a danger to others, disabled or not. Sorry. And disabled or not, if your kid knocks my kid over and hurts her because of your "what can you do?" attitude, you're going to have a problem.
 
My what can you do attitude was for disruption.
The accomidations for a stimmer is disney problem because of the close quarters lines create. Access. ADA law. if there is space no danger, no space danger. You clearly don't understand the law but that is ok.
Try not to take things out of context. I don't have a what can you do attitude for injury. So get all unhuffy.
So special needs parents are attacked no matter what. We need accomidations so our kids get access. People think they are unfair. We don't get accomidations situations can happen that are good for no one.
So once again damned if you do and all that.

Hay you all ask why why why I'm telling you why. If you don't want to know don't ask. Just pass your judgement and move along.
 
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My what can you do attitude was for disruption.
The accomidations for a stimmer is disney problem because of the close quarters lines create. Access. ADA law.
Try not to take things out of context.
So special needs parents are attacked no matter what. We need accomidations so our kids get access. People think they are unfair. We don't get accomidations situations can happen that are good for no one.
So once again damned if you do and all that.

Hitting people and knocking them over, as you said could happen, most certainly is disruption. Too bad you can't see that.
 
Ya not in the context I was using it.
So yes hitting and knocking people over would be disruptive.
But disruptive in this conversation was my overly loud kids ipad. So once again out of context. Try not to do that.
So I need to explain a little more. When a child is stimming they are not always aware of their surroundings. "In their own world" it is part of the disability. Autism is a disability. So yes by ADA law it needs to be accomidated. To bad you can't see that.
 
Ya not in the context I was using it.
So yes hitting and knocking people over would be disruptive.
But disruptive in this conversation was my overly loud kids ipad. So once again out of context. Try not to do that.
So I need to explain a little more. When a child is stimming they are not aware of their surroundings. "In their own world" it is part of the disability. Autism is a disability. So yes by ADA law it needs to be accomidated. To bad you can't see that.

The DAS accommodates your child by not making her wait in the standby line. However, if your child is stimming in the FP line and posing a danger to other guests, no, Disney is most certainly not required to accommodate that.

You seem to believe that people here are against accommodations - that's not true. What I and some others are against is the idea that the DAS isn't adequate accommodation
 
look I have taken my sons to disneyland 3 times. We had fun but I am a mega planner. I also don't have some of the challenges other patents have. I just see lots of judging of parents whose challenges are greater then mine.
You don't see me judging the obese person who is recieving accomidations. That is between disney and that individual.
So parent complain the accomidations are not fair on both sides.
You have a special needs kid. Ya life can be hard so be it. You feel special needs kids get to much. Well guess what life can be hard so be it.

I am planning my first disneyworld trip with my kids soon. I plan to have fun even with all the extra work my kids bring. I when I get the judgmental looks when I talk my able bodied kid out of his stroller/wheelchair. I won't care because low tone is a pain in the butt.
 
I know you said you don't want to talk about the DAS, but that's what this thread is for. So why doesn't the DAS work for you? Seems like it covers your needs - wait away from people, so your child doesn't hurt anyone. What's the problem? This thread is about a lawsuit filed by people who don't feel the DAS meets their needs. So what about the DAS doesn't work?

And why is it that you think it's abused by adults with no kids? Do you think the DAS exists for only kids?
 
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