What's with the Menu Changes?

[Lewisc]

I know the upstairs doesn't take the DDP, that was my point. Those "foodies" that think the DDP has "ruined" their restaurants have the choice of dining upstairs.

DDP guests eat downstairs and don't have any menu exclusions or upcharges.

No the upstairs doesn't take DDP last time I checked. My whole family is on the DDP this trip.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Disney posted a 1.1 billion dollar profit. Why did they raise ticket prices, room prices, food prices, DVC prices, and DDP prices? Because they can.

They posted ANY profit because, well, that's the goal of operating a business. Stockholders will now reasonably expect profits in future years to exceed this year's.

They raised ticket prices every year (twice in 2006).
Room rates go up once a year - while the rates are released in advance, they do not go into effect (at Disney, at least) until the start of the next year. Other hotels decide to raise prices and boom! No warning.
Food prices go up because food costs go up, and that includes payroll and transporting the materials. ANY vendor passes those increases on to the customer.
DVC prices? I don't know - because they can? Real estate increases? The perceived value of DVC points is higher so DVC charges more? I really don't know (but then, I don't know how DVC prices figure into a discussion on
menus, either ).
DDP prices didn't increase, they dropped. DDP value decreased, and no, it's NOT semantics.

 

[Lewisc]

A company reduces the size of a coffee can, lowers the sale price but increases the price per oz. Most of us would call that a price increase.

The 2008 dining plan is different then the 2007 dining plan. The effective price of the plan increased.

You don't want to call it a price increase? Then say something like the 2007 dining plan is no longer offered. As soon as we talk about the DDP in general then we have to call it what it is, a price increase.

You want to say the price of the DDP went down by a dollar, that means you're saying the value of the included tip and appetizer is ZERO.

DDP prices didn't increase, they dropped. DDP value decreased, and no, it's NOT semantics.

 

[disneynut1977]

I know the upstairs doesn't take the DDP, that was my point.

Oops. I understand now.


This will be the first year I've ever used the DDP, so I don't know how service will be with it; but I have to say so far I like it. Even without it my family planned on going to most of these resturants anyways and we are saving so much. It would have cost us double for our food if we didn't do the DDP. Although Fresh isn't included and I so wanted to go back there. With how many places we are going to we can't fit in any extra resturants not included (not to mention all the stuff were gonna try at the W&F too).

 

[apostolic4life]

If I were determined to tap dance around the obvious, this would be as good a rationalization as any other I suppose.

No need to be condescending just because her opinion differs from yours. Your opinion could, just as well as hers, be chalked up to a "rationalization" to bolster your position and discredit others. The "facts" about WDW's intentions which have bantered about are all speculative since none of us have sat in on the meetings where the changes were decided. That being said, is it so far fetched that WDW was making profit (although a slight one) from DDP in its current form, and the changes for next year are being implemented to increase the profit margin?? I think this could be just as much of a possibility as the idea you have suggested concerning the DDP being a loss for them. Understanding the opposition's point of view (not meaning you have to agree, but understand) and respectfully discussing your opposition to that view is what makes the DIS community function, so when we break down that respect and understanding we become extremely disfunctional. That leads to arguments instead of civil discussions!!!


Just my two cents, and I know it is way off topic!!!

 

[Lewisc]

A few posters on the rumors board think Disney corporate looks at the theme park division as an "ATM" machine that can be used to bail them out over failures in the rest of the company, such as Underdog.

No need to be condescending just because her opinion differs from yours. Your opinion could, just as well as hers, be chalked up to a "rationalization" to bolster your position and discredit others. The "facts" about WDW's intentions which have bantered about are all speculative since none of us have sat in on the meetings where the changes were decided. That being said, is it so far fetched that WDW was making profit (although a slight one) from DDP in its current form, and the changes for next year are being implemented to increase the profit margin?? I think this could be just as much of a possibility as the idea you have suggested concerning the DDP being a loss for them. Understanding the opposition's point of view (not meaning you have to agree, but understand) and respectfully discussing your opposition to that view is what makes the DIS community function, so when we break down that respect and understanding we become extremely disfunctional. That leads to arguments instead of civil discussions!!!


Just my two cents, and I know it is way off topic!!!

 

[jarestel]

No need to be condescending just because her opinion differs from yours.

Again, the simplest explanation for my previous post is that the most obvious explanation for something is usually the right one. The most obvious reason for changes to the DDP is financial. As we all like to say over & over, Disney is a business so the fact that they operate in a manner that minimizes loss and maximizes profits shouldn't be a subtle point and is, IMO, fairly obvious.

As to the case of my response to the previous poster, I made the point that if one isn't content to look at the obvious explanation for something then any political answer is as good as another. Looking for more than is there (and disregarding the obvious) leads you to believe something that wasn't intended when I said what I said.

 

[apostolic4life]

A few posters on the rumors board think Disney corporate looks at the theme park division as an "ATM" machine that can be used to gloss over failure in the rest of the company, such as Underdog.

Very true....... some may think it is ok to lose at little money in one area since another division will make up for it. I would not follow that philosophy in my business. I would strive to be successful in all areas although knowing not all areas may be equally successful.

 

[kaytieeldr]

The 2008 dining plan is different then the 2007 dining plan. The effective price of the plan increased.

You don't want to call it a price increase? Then say something like the 2007 dining plan is no longer offered. As soon as we talk about the DDP in general then we have to call it what it is, a price increase.

You want to say the price of the DDP went down by a dollar, that means you're saying the value of the included tip and appetizer is ZERO.

Okay, I wasn't fully awake when I wrote that. You're right
The cost of the DDP dropped $1.00.
The cost of the meal increases by an indeterminate/fluctuating amount.
The value of the DDP drops by a corresponding indeterminate/fluctuating amount.
These two items are now in the control of the Guest, since the Guest can still order an appetizer but is (or should be) aware that he or she will have to pay for that item; and the menu price of whatever the Guest does order, even under the DDP, is the amount on which the tip - also now paid by the Guest - is based.
So, price increase or value decrease - the Guest is now more in control of the entire meal. She can choose whether or not to order an appetizer; she can decide whether to pick menu items based on her preferences or on solely the menu cost; and, presumably, since she's now in control of the tip she can expect the excellent service for which Disney is known and which some Guests think they have not been getting.

That being said, is it so far fetched that WDW was making profit (although a slight one) from DDP in its current form, and the changes for next year are being implemented to increase the profit margin??

What? One-point-one billion dollars isn't enough? They want more???

 

[mickeysgal]

Disney posted a 1.1 billion dollar profit. Why did they raise ticket prices, room prices, food prices, DVC prices, and DDP prices? Because they can.

Exactly. I don't think its anything more than that.

 

[mickeysgal]

All I have to go by is Disney history. When Disney introduced DVC, the inclusions were generous to get one to buy into the program. Daily housekeeping, more decorator touches in the room (plants, peach towels), and the king of all inclusions - free park passes. Then Disney trimmed back and took away these things and kept charging the same cost and even increased cost for DVC membership. Yes, there was a huge uproar, but you know what, people still bought DVC, existing members still bought add-on points, and the program grew even though the membership cost is so much more than when it began. Disney is simply doing the same with their DDP. They're modifying it to eek out the most money while giving the least possible and still retain their customer base. Maybe it is tap dancing around the obvious, but like a previous poster said, its because they can.

 

[apostolic4life]

Again, the simplest explanation for my previous post is that the most obvious explanation for something is usually the right one. The most obvious reason for changes to the DDP is financial. As we all like to say over & over, Disney is a business so the fact that they operate in a manner that minimizes loss and maximizes profits shouldn't be a subtle point and is, IMO, fairly obvious.

I agree with your thought about the changes being financial, but I don't agree with your assumption the DDP was a hole that required a change to keep them from losing large amounts of cash. I seem to think they are trying to increase the marginal profit the DDP (this logic excludes the free DDP, it is an entirely different monster with a different reason for implementation) has operated on since its inception now that it has become so popular. Oh, and this change could always be a turnstile of sorts being implemented to help control the flow of guests into the TS venues (this is only a theory and not intended to be assumed as fact).

As for the most obvious explanation always being the right one.......that is far from being accurate in all cases. I believe the decisions made about the DDP were not based solely on financial criteria. I am willing to bet the decisions were based on a myriad of simple and complex trains of thought. Again, that is my opinion.

 

[jarestel]

I believe the decisions made about the DDP were not based solely on financial criteria. I am willing to bet the decisions were based on a myriad of simple and complex trains of thought. Again, that is my opinion.

You may be right. I'll be the first one to admit my lack of understanding in the ways and why-fors of Disney is startling. Since I have no access to the actual reasoning employed by Disney for changing anything, I'd rather not go to war over this simply based on instincts, assumptions, and opinions. But since following that philosphy severely limits the number of interesting threads to participate in I say... CHARGE!!!!!

We can agree to disagree in this instance though.

 

[jarestel]

Disney is simply doing the same with their DDP. They're modifying it to eek out the most money while giving the least possible and still retain their customer base. Maybe it is tap dancing around the obvious, but like a previous poster said, its because they can.

No, there's no dancing here. I totally agree with this line of reasoning. Financial reasons are certainly, IMO, the primary reason Disney does anything.

By the way, hope I wasn't out of line with that tap dancing crack...

 

[joleen76]

I think it's all about the price elasticity of demand. Disney will price it as the rate that they can maximize their profits and please the most people at the same time. I'm a "bean counter", and I know at my company this is common practice to maximize out profits. Not that as a consumer I want it! Anyway...I agree with many of the posters that Disney is a business and they have a responsibility to their stockholders to earn as much money as they can to maximize their returns on their investments. Oh well, I still don't like it when it hits my wallet, but what are you gonna do? As long as it's a savings, I'll continue to do it. When it no longer makes sense for my family, I won't. You know?

 

[mickeysgal]

No, there's no dancing here. I totally agree with this line of reasoning. Financial reasons are certainly, IMO, the primary reason Disney does anything.

By the way, hope I wasn't out of line with that tap dancing crack...

No, I understand what you were saying.

 

[disneynutz]

OK enough already.

We all love Disney. Disney is a very successful company. Most of us like the DDP. All of us have a lot of time on our hands.

Whats say we all go to WDW, meet up and eat DDP together.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

. . . DDP dropped $1.00.
The cost of the meal increases by an indeterminate/fluctuating amount.
The value of the DDP drops by a corresponding indeterminate/fluctuating amount . . .

1) The sales price of DDP dropped $1.00.
2) The actual cost of DDP went up approx 24%!
. . . 18% tip no longer included
. . . appetizer excluded
. . . menu items deleted or uniqueness cut back ("dumbed down")

 

[wen8jr]

1) The sales price of DDP dropped $1.00.
2) The actual cost of DDP went up approx 24%!
. . . 18% tip no longer included
. . . appetizer excluded
. . . menu items deleted or uniqueness cut back ("dumbed down")

I'm glad someone pointed that out.

 

[kaytieeldr]

. . . menu items deleted or uniqueness cut back ("dumbed down")

That same 'dumbed down, everything's, the same, it's the DDP's fault' came up last year around the free promotion time and pops up occasionally during the year. Yes, SOME menus have changed SOME items. But removing steak from the Chefs de France menu and adding back the duck (the previous loss of which generated another huge outcry) is NOT a dumbing down or cutback of uniqueness in any way, especially given that steak is available at MOST Disney restaurants.
Non-Disney-owned Wolfgang Puck Cafe removed several menu items from its downstairs location which participates in the DDP and made them available Upstairs, which doesn't. WPC still has a variety of choices on its menu, just not the expensive ones that free DDP-ers (or DDP-ers in general) were hoping to eat to get the most bang for their (non-)buck.

Menu changes? Sure. Dumbing down? I respectfully disagree.