Proof The Rumors Are True!!! TCD Relocation Plans!

[anolefan]

Shan-man may be able to do this better, but I gave it a shot...

I did my best to line things up using the dock and Pioneer Hall. It matches up fairly well, but isn't 100%. So is the dock in the pdf an old configuration, or do you think they are going to change it? If this is a new configuration, do you think they will add a new larger dock, perhaps extending off of the building that juts into the water???

I also think it is interesting how they positioned the buildings behind the trees. Depending on how tall the buildings are, they may be well shielded from the Fort.

Nice job!

I love this place!

 

[BradyBz12]

Y'all are awesome and I am in awe.

I predict a long life for this thread - here and on every rumor board, blog and local media outlet in a 100 mile radius.

 

[lisareniff]

I'm really not liking how they are positioning the new building to the waters edge ..and beyond. It is like they are controlling access the interior section of the resort. The portion of the new building in the center is a common area type building with bathrooms and it looks like an indoor/outdoor fireplace. It looks like the resort extends to the water on both sides circling this area.

I would rather have a more natural water front with more activities for all three resorts.

ETA: Just so you don't label me as a DVC snob. We camped for many years. First minimalist with a small tent (not even lawn chairs!) then after our first child we owned the smallest pop-up... until our second child was getting larger and the Bernese Mountain dogs overfill the pop-up. We may go back to camping one day but are having fun traveling to farther destinations then we would like to pull a camper.

 

[I'mDownWithDisney]

I almost peed myself looking at this thread. Exciting times at the fort.

 

[Lil' Lisa]

I almost peed myself looking at this thread. Exciting times at the fort.

There's a thread for that!
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2543873

 

[Shan-man]

Shan-man may be able to do this better, but I gave it a shot...

No, I don't think I could have done much better... very good job Lil Lisa! Man, I'm away for the afternoon and look what happens!

I wonder if the building over the water will be a stilt building or if they plan to build it on fill? If the later, prepare for LOTS of dump trucks! Also, I'm amazed that they would be planning to put the east-most building THAT close to Pioneer Hall's loading dock.

I can't deny that I'm disappointed that this will be just another DVC resort instead of a campground... pretty boring in that regard. I can only hope this results in a food court that is available for Fort guests.

Finally, there is obviously a good bit more to this resort than this drawing shows. I agree with TCD, there has to be a pool. Also, there is no parking shown, access roads, or gating.

 

[Lil' Lisa]

No, I don't think I could have done much better... very good job Lil Lisa! Man, I'm away for the afternoon and look what happens!

I wonder if the building over the water will be a stilt building or if they plan to build it on fill? If the later, prepare for LOTS of dump trucks! Also, I'm amazed that they would be planning to put the east-most building THAT close to Pioneer Hall's loading dock.

I can't deny that I'm disappointed that this will be just another DVC resort instead of a campground... pretty boring in that regard. I can only hope this results in a food court that is available for Fort guests.

Finally, there is obviously a good bit more to this resort than this drawing shows. I agree with TCD, there has to be a pool. Also, there is no parking shown, access roads, or gating.

Thanks Shan! I was wondering about the building over the water too. So dos the outline of these buildings remind anyone else of a train??

 

[thecplusplusguy]

I have a thought. Since this was left in as a mistake, is it possible that these buildings aren't even in the place they are supposed to be. It is awefully weird to be so close to pioneer hall (I wouldn't want a room looking the loading dock there). Also having the building just kind going off into the water seems a little bit off to me too.

Anyway just a thought,
Dan

 

[WannaBeImagineer]

I have a thought. Since this was left in as a mistake, is it possible that these buildings aren't even in the place they are supposed to be. It is awefully weird to be so close to pioneer hall (I wouldn't want a room looking the loading dock there). Also having the building just kind going off into the water seems a little bit off to me too.

Anyway just a thought,
Dan

I think it's definitely a possibility, or maybe this shows what the max footprint could be, when in reality they would only build the middle few buildings. We do things like that a lot, we grab a large building footprint that somewhat fits and put it in as a place holder.

WBI

 

[Tri-circle-D]

Boy, is this thing close or what? That end building looks like it sits right on the beach, very visible to the beach and the marina. Hard to imagine an area w/ this density of improvements/people/parking/etc. this close to the settlement not having a significant impact on the enjoyment of the fort.... maybe for the better, but I remain pessimistic as to that possibility.

P.S. Awsome job WBI, "The King is dead...long live the King"
(just kidding TCD, you are still awesome)

I have to agree, this find by WBI is huge!

I have been checking public records sources periodically for news, but I did not see this.

To quote the mayor: "TCD is overrated!"

Thanks for the compliments but I could never compete with King TCD!

I was looking at the new stables a little closer and found some cool things there too. This is the layout of the new blacksmith shop, if I remember correctly it looks just like the old one, you can even see where the flume and anvil will go.

You are already competing. And doing quite well, I must say.

I did not notice those details on the barn drawing. Good job on that.

I agree that it looks like they have a place for the calliope.

Also, from how things are configured, my guess would be that only that small hall with the few stalls will be accessible by the public. But, it looks like it will give everyone an adequate look at things, while still providing peace and quiet for the horses.

I see one major problem with this layout.

That area where the first building behind Pioneer Hall is depicted is the burial site of Melvin the Moose.

If they build there, this new resort will likely be terrorized by a Melvin the Moose poltergeist.

Who in their right mind would pay good money to buy DVC points in a resort haunted by an angry moose?

Not to worry.

I heard they hired a witch doctor.

And, I think the burial site is actually to the north of Pioneer Hall.

I think it's depicted in this box on the drawing:

Now that I know where Melvin's head is buried, I am thinking of a late night excavation project- there might be some kazoos in there. I am going to watch Raiders of the Lost Ark to get myself mentally prepared.

So now that the proverbial cat is out of the bag, so to speak, do you think that there will be a formal announcement soon?

If I recall correctly (or IRRC for you acronym fans), they didn't formally announce Bay Lake Tower until the work had already begun (like buildings being torn down). If this is going to be a DVC, and I suspect it is, then they have a definite timeline that they will follow. I imagine they want stuff happening on site before they start marketing the property. There probably isn't much advantage in announcing the project too early.

Shan-man may be able to do this better, but I gave it a shot...

Lisa- That image is awesome!

Great job!

Is there any chance that you could post this on your website in a form that we could zoom in on things? Like on a PDF?

I think it's definitely a possibility, or maybe this shows what the max footprint could be, when in reality they would only build the middle few buildings. We do things like that a lot, we grab a large building footprint that somewhat fits and put it in as a place holder.

WBI

Like others have said, I find it very odd that they would go to the expense of constructing a building hanging out over the lake, while there is plenty of available land around. But, the more I study this, the more I think that this is more than just a hypothetical drawing. I believe that there are buildings at the Grand Floridian that are built out over the Seven Seas Lagoon. And, what a view there will be from that building!

Also, upon reflection, I don't think this drawing was submitted in error. The bottom portion of the drawing indicates that its purpose is to show early relocation of utilities. The yellow line along the west/left of Pioneer Hall shows something that is to be relocated, and there is a blue box over to the east/right of the playground which appears to show some type of new surface drainage feature (you can see it in the top right of the image I posted right above in this post).

TCD

 

[Capt. Barbosa]

I agree I think the building overlay is just a general idea of where the building placement is going to be since these plans are only for enviromental impact and not for use in the construction of buildings.

 

[Duane]

Hey I just had a thought.... don't have too many..

Anyway, if these drawings are somewhat accurate, and with the "new" buildings being so close to Pioneer Hall, what do you think of the possibility of Disney reworking the current TE and making it the much requested quick service dining facility, and having a new and improved TE somewhere in the new complex.

Duane

 

[Tri-circle-D]

I agree I think the building overlay is just a general idea of where the building placement is going to be since these plans are only for enviromental impact and not for use in the construction of buildings.

This was my initial thought.

But, if you look at these, there is so much detail provided that it makes me think that this is more than just a general idea.

Time will tell.

Hey I just had a thought.... don't have too many..

Anyway, if these drawings are somewhat accurate, and with the "new" buildings being so close to Pioneer Hall, what do you think of the possibility of Disney reworking the current TE and making it the much requested quick service dining facility, and having a new and improved TE somewhere in the new complex.

Duane

Disboarder Des1953 reported a rumor on another thread about both Trail's End and the Settlement Trading Post closing. Trail's End would then become a gift shop, and I'm not sure what would happen to the Trading Post.

If Trail's End is moved out of Pioneer Hall, then the loading dock could probably be moved away from the new buildings, toward the south side of Pioneer Hall.

Clearly, the buildings located near the bottom of the drawing look like they have big spaces in them. DVC properties have a community hall. Over at Saratoga Springs, the building which contains the lobby also houses a restaurant and tavern. It looks like something like that would fit in this space:

TCD

 

[ORLCampers]

I have a thought. Since this was left in as a mistake, is it possible that these buildings aren't even in the place they are supposed to be. It is awefully weird to be so close to pioneer hall (I wouldn't want a room looking the loading dock there). Also having the building just kind going off into the water seems a little bit off to me too.

Anyway just a thought,
Dan

One great thing about being at the fort (and most campgrounds for that matter) is to enjoy the great outdoors, weather, water, etc. Based on the drawings the one interesting thing would be if the first floor that extends out over the water was a restaurant or quick service spot with outside seating on a dock overlooking the lake! They could even re-locate the rocking chairs from Crocketts out there. Time will tell

 

[Tri-circle-D]

So, if the Bay Lake and the big cypress trees in the area shown on the drawing are the focus of this resort, what will its theme be?

How does this sound:

Cypress Point Lodge will be a medium-sized hotel facility, located on the south shore of Bay Lake near our Fort Wilderness Campground Resort. Encompassing 550 rooms and 50 log cabins on the beach, Cypress Point Lodge will offer a romantic notion of a turn-of-the-century hunting lodge secluded in a deep forest. Neither the trees nor the buildings dominate the entire area; but blend together in a natural harmony.. One can almost hear the crackling fireplace and feel the large wooden beams offer a haven of security and comfort.

Cypress Point Lodge will also include: two restaurants, a pool, extensive beach, and lake dock. Guests will commute in and out of Cypress Point Lodge by watercraft.

Sounds Disney-ish, right?

Well, Cypress Point Lodge was on the drawing boards at WDW back in 1982.

It was planned for where Wilderness Lodge currently stands.

Here's a drawing showing its proposed location:

And, here are a couple of renderings of the building:

You can find a well written article about this proposed resort which never was built here: Progress City Article on Cypress Point Lodge

Turn of the century hunting lodge?

Sounds reasonable to me.

TCD

 

[ynottony99]

The info. I have been given from an insider is that this Vacation Club Resort will not be done based on the original Buffalo Junction plan. This latest find by TCD does sound like a good fit.

I suppose this resort could be accessed via the present service road that runs to WL, but I don't know. We have seen improvements to the rest rooms used by BYBBQ, and recently a nice new sign out front. I know that the new resort is not opening next year, but would they be making any "improvements" to an area slated to be leveled?

It makes good sense to replace the old barn, and move it up front for easier access by all the visitors to FW.

With all that said, I guess it still seems hard for me to imagine this resort being plopped down right smack dab against the service side of Pioneer hall, especially with abundant real estate to the South and West.

 

[WannaBeImagineer]

So, if the Bay Lake and the big cypress trees in the area shown on the drawing are the focus of this resort, what will its theme be?

How does this sound:

Cypress Point Lodge will be a medium-sized hotel facility, located on the south shore of Bay Lake near our Fort Wilderness Campground Resort. Encompassing 550 rooms and 50 log cabins on the beach, Cypress Point Lodge will offer a romantic notion of a turn-of-the-century hunting lodge secluded in a deep forest. Neither the trees nor the buildings dominate the entire area; but blend together in a natural harmony.. One can almost hear the crackling fireplace and feel the large wooden beams offer a haven of security and comfort.

Cypress Point Lodge will also include: two restaurants, a pool, extensive beach, and lake dock. Guests will commute in and out of Cypress Point Lodge by watercraft.

Sounds Disney-ish, right?

Well, Cypress Point Lodge was on the drawing boards at WDW back in 1982.

It was planned for where Wilderness Lodge currently stands.

Here's a drawing showing its proposed location:

And, here are a couple of renderings of the building:

You can find a well written article about this proposed resort which never was built here: Progress City Article on Cypress Point Lodge

Turn of the century hunting lodge?

Sounds reasonable to me.

TCD

This sounds right on the money! Especially with the way they are positioning it around the Cypress head and out on to the lake.

I think you're on to somehting TCD, the more I think about it they went to the trouble of putting stakes out in the lake I'm sure they are doing some serious land planning and this drawing is probably more accurate than I first thought.

Also, upon reflection, I don't think this drawing was submitted in error. The bottom portion of the drawing indicates that its purpose is to show early relocation of utilities. The yellow line along the west/left of Pioneer Hall shows something that is to be relocated, and there is a blue box over to the east/right of the playground which appears to show some type of new surface drainage feature (you can see it in the top right of the image I posted right above in this post).

I agree, I don't think the drawing was submitted in error because of needing to show the blue catch basin and yellow gas line you mentioned, but I don't think they meant to show so much additional information with this application. I also looked at the construction plans that were submitted and they didn't show anything in that area which is kind of strange. I guess we'll just have to keep an eye out for new information.

 

[Tri-circle-D]

The info. I have been given from an insider is that this Vacation Club Resort will not be done based on the original Buffalo Junction plan. This latest find by TCD does sound like a good fit.

I suppose this resort could be accessed via the present service road that runs to WL, but I don't know. We have seen improvements to the rest rooms used by BYBBQ, and recently a nice new sign out front. I know that the new resort is not opening next year, but would they be making any "improvements" to an area slated to be leveled?

It makes good sense to replace the old barn, and move it up front for easier access by all the visitors to FW.

With all that said, I guess it still seems hard for me to imagine this resort being plopped down right smack dab against the service side of Pioneer hall, especially with abundant real estate to the South and West.

Tony-

I agree with your observations. Why spend money improving things that are going to be soon torn down?

There is a new rumor about the Settlement Trading Post getting torn down as a part of this project. But, they just erected a new sign there. I guess that if this new rumor is true, the new gift shop in Pioneer Hall could still be called the Settlement Trading Post, and the sign could be re-used there.

However, here is an example of them spending money on something that is about to be torn down . . .

According to this building permit from March, 2010, the new calliope display in the existing barn cost $9000:

The $9000 sounds a bit high. But, they did remove two horse stalls, and put up dry wall and a new enclosure. I think there was also heating and AC added. Even if it wasn't $9K, it was a significant amount to spend on something that is apparently about to be trashed in less than a year from the improvement.

TCD

 

[Shan-man]

I found something interesting:

There is a design for a floating dock, which doesn't currently exist, under the drawing for a building, which doesn't exist. This is in the bottom left of the drawing, so it could be near the employee dock in RC.

Also, I noticed that the measured water levels were from '79 and '81. I suspect this drawing is from the original Cypress Lodge plans.

BTW, the blue box is labeled "fence" and the contours leading to it suggest the fence surrounds a culvert.

 

[BayLake Campers]

Here is my contribution.

My pictures are not showing up??

here is the link http://www.flickr.com/photos/baylake/5118223096/