OT: DS turns 5 end of July so Kindergarten or no Kindergarten

[hmacmahony]

Daughter number two was also held back for many reasons, not just so she would not be in the same grade as her sister, but that one sealed the deal for me.
They are two seperate kids, a year apart (actually just under a year), they have to share a lot, why make them share this as well.

ITA. Why penalize one, potentially sacrifice their potential? Both children have been gifted with unique, individual talents. Why deny one?

 

[llori7]

Daughter number two was also held back for many reasons, not just so she would not be in the same grade as her sister, but that one sealed the deal for me.
They are two seperate kids, a year apart (actually just under a year), they have to share a lot, why make them share this as well.

ITA!!!

 

[momto2girls]

I agree with hmacmahony, I would not want my children in the same kindergarten class if they were a year apart. I would have also held my second child back a year so they would not be in a class together.

I agree. No way would I have my kids be in the same grade.

 

[tinkandpan]

I also just wanted to add- in regards to sending kids or not (i already replied I held my son) so much of it has to do now with curriculum and state testing. Our children are required to read at a level three before they leave full day K. There were quite a few children who were retained at the end of last years K who couldn't do that without tears, frustration or just plain couldn't do it. Gone are those years of first grade prep. K thanks to state requirements has become very academic and it has NOTHING to do with the parents of older kids asking for more academic work. In addition, my son turned 6 the first week of K. He is the second oldest. As of yesterday (when I was last in the classroom ) on the age chart out of 13 kids- only 2 of them are not 6 yet. This makes him at most 5 mths older than the other children.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I agree. No way would I have my kids be in the same grade.

So if one child was ready and would benefit from Kindergarten you would hold them back because of this?! That is doing them a disservice IMO.

 

[hmacmahony]

But here is what you are not getting, I 100% believe that sending a child to kindergarten at 4 is not good, so, why would I send my second child at 4???
The maturity of a child plays a huge part in this problem for me, and I just don't believe that at 4 kids are ready for kindergarten. Espically in our district, where it is suggested (not mandated) that you wait that extra year.

So if one child was ready and would benefit from Kindergarten you would hold them back because of this?! That is doing them a disservice IMO.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

But here is what you are not getting, I 100% believe that sending a child to kindergarten at 4 is not good, so, why would I send my second child at 4???
The maturity of a child plays a huge part in this problem for me, and I just don't believe that at 4 kids are ready for kindergarten. Espically in our district, where it is suggested (not mandated) that you wait that extra year.

But we have agreed that ALL children are different no? If a child will turn 5 the first month or two of school and is mature enough and academically ready you would not send your child just because they would be in the same grade as a sibling? I was the young one in class and I can assure you I was anything but immature for my age. I am not singling you out but you seem to be the only person who will actually explain your reasons for this and I appreciate it. I have hardly heard of this phenomenon.

 

[dogluva]

I don't understand how you cannot think you are doing my child (who went on time and is actually younger) a disservice. My child is a year, sometimes more, younger than your child. My child is legally allowed to go. That is what the cutoff says. He is ready, academically and socially. So he goes. However, your child being so much older has more knowledge and life experiences. ALso, so many so that they only held them back for maturity, not academics. So, of course you are going to expect the teachers to up the work up a bit (maybe make it first grade material??) That does take away from my child because a teacher can only do so much and that is the reality of it.

Also, many want their children to be kids longer. However, when they get to second grade and they figure out that Santa, the TOoth Fairy and the Easter they may want to share that info. I know you are going to say, not my kid but they are a year older and VERY VERY smart (nothing to do with that we all know!). THey may just want to pass on that knowledge.

It will be the same when they get to High School (and middle school). They are going to be ready for things my child is not. And I am sorry, a year makes a big difference.

Why should I hold my son back for these reasons? I have experience with kids being older than he was all through his school years and it was not fair for him.

ALso, I knew a mother who sent her daughter early. She fought to get her little darling in who was born a few months after the cut-off (Dec). Well she got in and she required Reading Recovery in first grade. I was upset about this because she took away a spot (only two a classroom a semester) from a child who was sent when he was suppossed to go. If she has waited a year, she may have been fine. So it can work both ways. A child who is more advanced takes away from the kids who are right where they should be.

 

[momto2girls]

So if one child was ready and would benefit from Kindergarten you would hold them back because of this?! That is doing them a disservice IMO.

If they were a year apart in age? Absolutely. If they are were a year apart in age, I would not want them to be in the same grade at school. I know a few people who have kids that are about a year apart in age, but because the way the cut-offs are drawn, they would be in the same year at school. They held the younger one back specifically so this wouldn't happen.

I also wouldn't put one twin ahead if one was ready and the other wasn't.

 

[hmacmahony]

From all the research we have done, and we spent about two years reading things, talking to parents, teachers, administrators, older kids just do better. (not all, and not all younger do bad). Obviously this is not 100%, and I am sure you could find research going the other way, but kids who have late birthdays, do more drugs, drink more, have more sex, and earlier, commit suicide more, and drop out of high school more often. I will try to find the few studies we read that have this info in it, but can't promise you anything since I know I don't have most of the school info saved since we have made our decision.
Specifically we did not send my second daughter, not because of speech (the kid NEVER shuts up), but she is not focused, she does not like to sit and do work (we are working on this with her preschool teachers), she is goofy (I know all kids are, but she is disruptive goofy, always wants a laugh), and if she does not want to do something, she won't. Plus, she is just not academically ready, (especially for our kindergarten program), she just mastered her letters, has very poor fine motor skills (she is a tad lazy), and is just starting her numbers. Plus, on top of that, she is adopted, once again not the deciding factor, but we (and the social workers we talked to), agreed that giving her the extra year, to process even her adoption would benefit her.

But we have agreed that ALL children are different no? If a child will turn 5 the first month or two of school and is mature enough and academically ready you would not send your child just because they would be in the same grade as a sibling? I was the young one in class and I can assure you I was anything but immature for my age. I am not singling you out but you seem to be the only person who will actually explain your reasons for this and I appreciate it. I have hardly heard of this phenomenon.

 

[hmacmahony]

I will be the first to admit my 6 year old is immature. When it comes down to it, we shelter our kids a lot, they watch minimal tv (none at all monday-friday, or computer either). They have never watched spounge bob, high school muscial, hanna montan, we don't do the whole libby lus dress up thing (make up on my 5 and 6 year old...yuck). We do travel a lot, so yes, they have seen a lot in that way, but some families travel some do not.
By the way, we did have santa ruined for us this year, by a 4 year old!!! Not an older kid, by a 4 year old, so that is the silliest excuse I have heard.
You are right a year makes a huge difference, which is why I choose to hold my child back, rather than putting her in a class with kids that were over a year older than her, I put her with kids who were only a few days, to months younger than her, and there are even 2 that are older than her.

I don't understand how you cannot think you are doing my child (who went on time and is actually younger) a disservice. My child is a year, sometimes more, younger than your child. My child is legally allowed to go. That is what the cutoff says. He is ready, academically and socially. So he goes. However, your child being so much older has more knowledge and life experiences. ALso, so many so that they only held them back for maturity, not academics. So, of course you are going to expect the teachers to up the work up a bit (maybe make it first grade material??) That does take away from my child because a teacher can only do so much and that is the reality of it.

Also, many want their children to be kids longer. However, when they get to second grade and they figure out that Santa, the TOoth Fairy and the Easter they may want to share that info. I know you are going to say, not my kid but they are a year older and VERY VERY smart (nothing to do with that we all know!). THey may just want to pass on that knowledge.

It will be the same when they get to High School (and middle school). They are going to be ready for things my child is not. And I am sorry, a year makes a big difference.

Why should I hold my son back for these reasons? I have experience with kids being older than he was all through his school years and it was not fair for him.

ALso, I knew a mother who sent her daughter early. She fought to get her little darling in who was born a few months after the cut-off (Dec). Well she got in and she required Reading Recovery in first grade. I was upset about this because she took away a spot (only two a classroom a semester) from a child who was sent when he was suppossed to go. If she has waited a year, she may have been fine. So it can work both ways. A child who is more advanced takes away from the kids who are right where they should be.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

From all the research we have done, and we spent about two years reading things, talking to parents, teachers, administrators, older kids just do better. (not all, and not all younger do bad). Obviously this is not 100%, and I am sure you could find research going the other way, but kids who have late birthdays, do more drugs, drink more, have more sex, and earlier, commit suicide more, and drop out of high school more often. I will try to find the few studies we read that have this info in it, but can't promise you anything since I know I don't have most of the school info saved since we have made our decision.
Specifically we did not send my second daughter, not because of speech (the kid NEVER shuts up), but she is not focused, she does not like to sit and do work (we are working on this with her preschool teachers), she is goofy (I know all kids are, but she is disruptive goofy, always wants a laugh), and if she does not want to do something, she won't. Plus, she is just not academically ready, (especially for our kindergarten program), she just mastered her letters, has very poor fine motor skills (she is a tad lazy), and is just starting her numbers. Plus, on top of that, she is adopted, once again not the deciding factor, but we (and the social workers we talked to), agreed that giving her the extra year, to process even her adoption would benefit her.

Thank you for explaining. I do have some issue though. Of course the children who are older are more mature. They are older! In your particular situation I can see why you might hold her back. I am curious though- was your child tested and recieve any services to help with the motor delays? Of course you also have a whole adoption issue as well. What I am talking about is parents who just decide because the child is young then they will be held back. If your DD was on par academically, socially, and in every other area would you still have held her back so she wouldn't be in the same grade as her sister? If so then I personally think that is not right. JMHO of course. I understand all the research that you have done regarding younger birthdays but most of that research doesn't take into account the upbringing of the child. Environment, economics etc. I am sure that there will always be exceptions to the rule, but I find it disturbing that more and more kids are being held back. I don't believe for a minute that every single kid that is held back isn't ready. Everyone talks about how hard K is. I agree, and I was very worried about it initially. But the truth is, the kids are ready for it. My just turned 4 year old is learning to spell and she is in pre-school! Kids are like little sponges. They take it all in. Sure every kid is different but I think we underestimate them. Thank you for taking the time to explain your stance. I find it interesting even if we don't agree on all points.

 

[NJfamily2007]

My son will be 5 on September 13th. The cutoff in NJ is September 30th. He has been in preschool for two years and his teacher thinks that we should send him because he is super smart and very mature with an unbelievable vocabulary and ability to understand and reason. We will be waiting to send him. There are several reasons that I feel this way:

1. He is very small for his age. This can lead to social issues as he gets older.

2. Although he is very intelligent, starting to read and can add and subtract, he cannot write his name or hold a pencil correctly. He has no interest in coloring or painting.

3. As a teacher I noticed that boys who were on the younger side often had issues with behavior and were socially behind the others as they got into late elementary school and middle school.

I think that it is one of the most important decisions that a parent has to make. You have to do what you feel is best for your child.

 

[hmacmahony]

We had the initial eval with my second daughter, and it was decided we did not need to test further, she is slightly behind, but not enough to warrant a full eval. She will catch up with work, and we work every day (or just about), on writing, and cutting and things like that.
I 100% agree environment, economics do play a huge part in how a child ends up, a huge part, but if you know a child has risk factors like a later birthday, I don't see the problem in erring on the side of caution. We all have our opinions, ours just differ on this one, but that is what makes the world go round.

Thank you for explaining. I do have some issue though. Of course the children who are older are more mature. They are older! In your particular situation I can see why you might hold her back. I am curious though- was your child tested and recieve any services to help with the motor delays? Of course you also have a whole adoption issue as well. What I am talking about is parents who just decide because the child is young then they will be held back. If your DD was on par academically, socially, and in every other area would you still have held her back so she wouldn't be in the same grade as her sister? If so then I personally think that is not right. JMHO of course. I understand all the research that you have done regarding younger birthdays but most of that research doesn't take into account the upbringing of the child. Environment, economics etc. I am sure that there will always be exceptions to the rule, but I find it disturbing that more and more kids are being held back. I don't believe for a minute that every single kid that is held back isn't ready. Everyone talks about how hard K is. I agree, and I was very worried about it initially. But the truth is, the kids are ready for it. My just turned 4 year old is learning to spell and she is in pre-school! Kids are like little sponges. They take it all in. Sure every kid is different but I think we underestimate them. Thank you for taking the time to explain your stance. I find it interesting even if we don't agree on all points.

 

[brymolmom]

Don't forget - most of the statistics (that redshirted kids don't do as much 'bad' stuff as others) - have likely just as much to do with other factors as they do with being older. Redshirted kids are way more likely to be from families of greater income, parents who help with homework and are greatly involved in education, read to their children, etc. And most of these statistics can also be tied to any one of these other factors and not at all with the fact that they are older.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

My son will be 5 on September 13th. The cutoff in NJ is September 30th. He has been in preschool for two years and his teacher thinks that we should send him because he is super smart and very mature with an unbelievable vocabulary and ability to understand and reason. We will be waiting to send him. There are several reasons that I feel this way:

1. He is very small for his age. This can lead to social issues as he gets older.2. Although he is very intelligent, starting to read and can add and subtract, he cannot write his name or hold a pencil correctly. He has no interest in coloring or painting.

3. As a teacher I noticed that boys who were on the younger side often had issues with behavior and were socially behind the others as they got into late elementary school and middle school.

I think that it is one of the most important decisions that a parent has to make. You have to do what you feel is best for your child.

We have relatives who are small. Their kids are small. Their grown kids are small. They are all very social. I just wanted to point out that size isn't what makes a kid social. Not trying to be rude, just wanted to clarify that.

 

[Eeyore's Wife]

I taught Middle School and High School. I regularly saw summer birthday boys who had done well during elementary school suddenly struggle in middle school and high school. Their immaturity, as compared to peers, caused social and academic problems. My late bloomers were especially hard hit by the social issues. Had I not seen, first hand, the later effects associated with these Summer Kids, I would have made different choices for my own little darlings.

It is a tough thing to be the only boy who doesn't have underarm hair and who also happens to have a voice mistaken for his mother's when he answers the phone. To go through that in high school is BRUTAL.

I have two kids born in July, a boy and a girl. My girl was very verbal, organized, focused, and attentive. She started Kindergarten at 5 and will graduate this spring at only 17 years of age. She was writing her college applications and essays when she was still 16. She was ready for that responsibility. I don't worry about her abilitly to handle the emotional, social, and educational issues of college.

My son was immature and still needed a nap when he turned 5. The all day Kindergarten of our school district did not offer nap time. He would have been a holy terror had I sent him at the "appointed time." We sent him to a private school for a 1/2 day Kindergarten when he was 5 and then sent him to public school for full day Kindergarten when he was 6. He is now 11 and we are still happy with the decision.

For the mother who is considering whether to send her child to Kindgergarten, if financially possible, consider a private Kindergarten. If your child does very well and the teacher feels confident sending your child into first grade, then you can transition to public school with very little disruption. At least in our area, that is a very common practice and your child would not be the only one making that transition.

If at the end of the private Kindergarten experience you and the teacher feel your child could benefit from another year of Kindergarten, then you can transition into the public Kindergarten without much difficutly either.

My son is in 5th grade, which is the last year of Elementary School in our distirct. Had he been placed according to birth date alone, he would have been in Middle School this year, and he would not have been ready emotionally, socially, or organizationally for the stressers of middle school. He could have handled the academics, but school is not all about academics. Middle school comes with dances, lockers, changing classes for each period and a host of teachers, and their assignments, of which to keep track.

He will graduate from high school as an 18 year old. He will start college as a 19 year old, and I believe we made the right decision for both of our children. Each kid is different, and the "cut off" age should not be set in stone, but should be seen as a general guideline which is used in congress with developmental issues and intellectual factors. Both of my kids are very intelligent and get great grades, but they were on different time clocks for development of other necessary skills. One size doesn't fit all, just most.

--Eeyore's Wife

 

[NJfamily2007]

We have relatives who are small. Their kids are small. Their grown kids are small. They are all very social. I just wanted to point out that size isn't what makes a kid social. Not trying to be rude, just wanted to clarify that.

As I said "this can lead to social issues. In the beginning of the year kids in his preschool class told him he was too little to do things. Now his teacher says that the kids just see him as Zachary, the smartest kid in class. I'm not sure that this will be the case in 6th grade. I have many short relatives. Some have had social issues that directly relate to their height. Obviously not all short kids have social issues.

I had a student who was called "mini-me" and carried around on the playground. I don't want to subject my son to that.

 

[Camno's Mama]

So if one child was ready and would benefit from Kindergarten you would hold them back because of this?! That is doing them a disservice IMO.

Without having met this family, how can you say they're doing their child a disservice? That seems a little judgemental, although this thread has been nothing but, so why am I surprised?

I can totally understand not wanting your daughters who are a year apart to be in the same grade. It gives them a chance to express those individual gifts, etc. that someone else mentioned a little better than being in the same grade. I think a lot of twins have a hard time with that as they get older, and being that they aren't twins, why not let them have the freedom to stretch their legs on their own?

 

[KariC]

Without having met this family, how can you say they're doing their child a disservice? That seems a little judgemental, although this thread has been nothing but, so why am I surprised?

I can totally understand not wanting your daughters who are a year apart to be in the same grade. It gives them a chance to express those individual gifts, etc. that someone else mentioned a little better than being in the same grade. I think a lot of twins have a hard time with that as they get older, and being that they aren't twins, why not let them have the freedom to stretch their legs on their own?

twins are a totally different dynamic. Most twins do not feel the way you indicate, as the problem is more of an issue for monozygotic twins. And, in most schools....there is more than one class for each grade.