How to get out of Christmas--UPDATED OCT 1 page 5

[quandrea]

PrincessSHM, perhaps you do not have a full understanding of this kind of thing.
I will just say that one should not mis-interpret the effort to communicate as trying to 'bring back into the fold'.
Do not mis-interpret that as placing any value, whatsoever, on the other person.
Not at all.
In these cases, it is an effort to keep the captive victim 'captive' psychologically.
In these cases, this type of person chooses a 'chosen victiim' that can continually be controlled and disrespected and subject to their negative judgements. It has to be a person that, due to the dynamic, will find it very very hard to walk away. To the Narcissist, THEY must mean everything, and if you do not fully agree and comply, then you mean 'nothing'. They value NOBODY else's opinion....

It is a 'need' for these people to have somebody to control and disrespect and 'victimize'. So that they can maintain and prove their own superiority. They purposely choose others who are vulnerable, because they might not find it easy to walk away from the situation. Others, such as family members, employees that might be under their management/control, children, etc... are the most common subjects.
The only value that the chosen victim has is to 'meet the narcissist's needs'.

The very act of 'disengaging' and being able to walk-away when necessary/appropriate is the one and only thing that works to break that cycle.

The fact that the OP posted that the big factor was that she was the one in the family who actually went out and found a partner, married a spouse, etc... and clearly did not always put these parent's/sisters 'first'...
This is the kind of thing that these types of people just can not accept, and will then go to even further lengths to maintain control.
Because, by definition... NOTHING should ever be more important to the other person than the Narcissist.

What the OP has described is a very, very, dysfunctional, toxic, family, and not a 'fold'.

Spot on. In regard to my sister not ousting me too, I think it has more to do with her need to avoid conflict at all cost and her need to never be "the bad guy" than any real respect or affection for me.

 

[quandrea]

OP, not only will they 'hound' you for information. With no lack of boundaries.
But, be prepared for all kind of emotional and psychological pressures to be applied.
They will try to make you feel 'guilty'.
They will try to tell you that you are a horrible person.
They will 'fall on knives' and be so mortally wounded and offended.
They might threaten that "Well, if you don't want to do this at Christmas, then you are now totally written off and disowned. (that is just classic)
Probably all of the above.

This is exactly what I'm expecting.

In fact these are the very words my father used when cutting me off, "If you don't apologise to your brother and behave yourself, we are done with you."

 

[quandrea]

Exactly, Tipsy...
Very well said.
I actually almost continued to post, in my comments above, with the exact same words... The you-know-what will hit the fan when the OP decides that she will not continue to engage and be a victim by-proxy.

I will just add, that in my own extended personal experience with this... I also thought of the mother as the accepting enabler. But, that wasn't quite true. She truly was a co-narcissist, and that came into clear view as the father passed away a number of years before she did.

I'd say this is true of my mother, as evidenced by much of her behaviour during my childhood and into adulthood.

 

[Nancyg56]

This is exactly what I'm expecting.

In fact these are the very words my father used when cutting me off, "If you don't apologise to your brother and behave yourself, we are done with you."

Ultimatums are never a good idea unless you are willing to accept the consequence. Your father issued this directive and I am willing to bet he figured you would fall into line. I am in no position to tell you, or anyone else what to do becuase I do not have to live with your consequences. I will say that for me, everyone who interacts with me knows that if I am given that sort of ultimatum the deal is off. I walk. I don't think twice, and I do not look back. If that person whated to discusss with me why they felt strongly about whatever the problem was, I woudl listen with an open mind, but the minute that person displayed so little respect for me that any consideration of what I wanted or needed was removed from the table, I move on. I do not even respond, I just stop.

My husband is a little different. He stops communicating but seldom "cuts the tie" completely. Once a line is crossed though, there is no going back, so while it has happened on occasion, it is rare. It tears him apart though. Not me. Once I decide I am done, it's done.

I feel so badly for you under these circumstances. I remember the original issue, and I though thten that you were treated very badly, and that your was immensely unfair to you. I seldom agree with @WishingUponAStar, but this time I am in lockstep. I think I am anyway, becasue I really don't understand most of what she said, but I got the gist of her message. Take care of you and your family. Love is not conditional in the manner your family has imposed on you.

 

[WishingOnAStar]

I rarely post, but had to respond to this one. Life is short. Really. Don't spend another second with toxic people. I'm not sure of the ages of your children, but it would be awful for them to see you allowing people (family or not!) treat you this way. It is probably torture for your husband to endure this also. If you don't want to do it for yourself, do it for them. Plan something for your immediate family to do and that's the end of it. I would probably give them a heads up now to avoid any nonsense before Christmas. You can go into the holidays knowing it's settled. *hugs* to you!

 

[Wishing on a star]

Wow, quandrea....
I am PROUD of you!!!!!
You really have come such a long way in understanding this whole thing, and trying to deal with it.

Things that I learned over many years/decades of dealing with this, and research, etc... And I had the luxury that it wasn't MY parents/family. Which is always much much more difficult, when the waters are so much more murky, emotionally entangled, and one cant see the forest for the trees.

I will just say that I am noticing a few little comments, starting with the very beginning of your thread here. Comments like, you want to to speak to your sister about things like your children's birthdays, you 'asked' a sister not to say things regarding family news (negative towards you...), etc. etc.

I think that this situation here might be the next step for you ...
You have not truly disengaged.
You still want to try to discuss with these family members and hope for a better outcome.
Now that you reach this point that you have, you might want to consider that you need a slightly different angle.
Because any 'discussion' or 'asking' is not going to get you the results you hope for.

If there is one thing that can be said about a Narcissist, it is this.
Never 'question' a Narcissist...
And Never 'ASK' a Narcissist for anything...
Ohhhhh, and another huge one, a narcissist can never be 'blamed' for anything, any of their actions.

Like, for example, the topic on this thread is how to 'get out of Christmas'.
And, the simple answer is - you just DO.
Perhaps, your real question here is 'How do I get my dysfunctional/toxic family members to let-me-out-of-Christmas'.
And, given the info that you have put forward here.... You do not..... They will react how they want.
You have to just recognize that, and let that be what it is.

Remember the age old adage: You can not control or take responsibility for other peoples actions and feelings, but you must and should take responsibility for your own.

You also mentioned a sister who has her position based on the fact that she just wants to be non-confrontational.
She does not want to be assertive.
The basic and true and given fact of the matter is that this inability to be assertive (forget confrontation, totally confrontation is NEVER a good idea) but the lack of being able to be assertive about one's own life and personal boundaries is the EXACT factor that a Narcissist will zero in on when identifying and choosing victims... It is kind of like what I call being a 'WILLING victim'.
A willing victim is still very much a victim.
By definition, a person who is able to think, "HEY, screw this... I don't need or deserve this." and simply walk away....
By definition, this is not a victim.
This is not a person that a controlling abusive narcissist will be able victimize. (they very well know this.)

 

[belleatdisney]

I agree that if you stop doing Christmas they may all banish you. It may be the peace you need, that is up to you.

 

[hereyago]

I say you banish them. Tell them now :I won't be wasting anymore of my time with people who really don't respect me or want to spend time with me.

I wish you peace.

 

[quandrea]

I rarely post, but had to respond to this one. Life is short. Really. Don't spend another second with toxic people. I'm not sure of the ages of your children, but it would be awful for them to see you allowing people (family or not!) treat you this way. It is probably torture for your husband to endure this also. If you don't want to do it for yourself, do it for them. Plan something for your immediate family to do and that's the end of it. I would probably give them a heads up now to avoid any nonsense before Christmas. You can go into the holidays knowing it's settled. *hugs* to you!

This is really the heart of the matter and why I've made the decision about the holiday that I have. The disparaging comments don't stop with me but are directed at dh as well. He has never been anything but respectful to all of them. Allowing dh and the kids to be subjected to all this is wrong. I owe them more than that.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Allowing dh and the kids to be subjected to all this is wrong. I owe them more than that.

Your post just really hits home and makes me want to cry!!!
Coming from somebody who has experienced this type of thing from your DH's situation.

 

[quandrea]

Well, I sent the email today. Told my sisters that I won't be hosting Christmas Eve this year. I said we would be busy that evening and that I couldn't schedule dinner and company that night. Said I wanted to let them know far in advance so they could make other arrangements.

Now I wait for the fallout.....or maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised and there won't be any.

It was a hard email to send. I know I had to do it, but I still feel like I'm being the bad guy. Crazy, I know.

 

[amberpi]

I hope there's no fallout and that you can now just think of having a lovely holiday with no stress!

 

[lynxstch]

If there is fallout, just ignore it. You have made your decision, stick with it!

 

[mom2rb]

I am so proud of you! With family, it is hard to stand up for yourself.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Good for you. I hope they don't try to create drama in response---if they do just hold firm and calm and don't feed into it yourself. You've got this

 

[anniemae]

Any response yet?

 

[quandrea]

Any response yet?

No

 

[ronandannette]

Good for you. I hope they donÄt try to create drama in response---if tehy do just hold firm and calm and don't feed into it yourself. You'Ve got this

This X 2. Don't imply in any way that you feel bad or like you've let them down. Simple and straight forward. Now here's a question for the Devil's advocate: If they re-group and decide to host at one of their homes and invite you - will you go? (Not implying you should or shouldn't; just thinking through the possibilities.)

 

[quandrea]

This X 2. Don't imply in any way that you feel bad or like you've let them down. Simple and straight forward. Now here's a question for the Devil's advocate: If they re-group and decide to host at one of their homes and invite you - will you go? (Not implying you should or shouldn't; just thinking through the possibilities.)

No. We won't go. They have been so awful to my husband that getting all of us together is out of the question. Dh is done and I don't blame him one bit. If they suggest coffee somewhere on a day before the holiday, I'd go visit with the kids.

 

[ronandannette]

No. We won't go. They have been so awful to my husband that getting all of us together is out of the question. Dh is done and I don't blame him one bit. If they suggest coffee somewhere on a day before the holiday, I'd go visit with the kids.

Sounds like you have resolve. I wish you well.