How to get out of Christmas--UPDATED OCT 1 page 5

[belleatdisney]

"Nothing is more important than the narcissist"
Exactly, therefore imho the only thing you can really control is if you are willing to continue to participate in their games.
ETA not that any of this is your fault, I didn't mean it that way.

 

[runwad]

So you celebrate with your sisters and your mom and dad and brother do what?? I guess I can't wrap my head around why your sisters aren't with your parents instead of you? They just leave their parents alone at Christmas when they supposedly still get along with them? That's strange to me, I wouldn't leave my parents alone on a holiday.

 

[quandrea]

So you celebrate with your sisters and your mom and dad and brother do what?? I guess I can't wrap my head around why your sisters aren't with your parents instead of you? They just leave their parents alone at Christmas when they supposedly still get along with them? That's strange to me, I wouldn't leave my parents alone on a holiday.

My parents' Christmas celebration is on Christmas Day. My sisters come to me on Christmas Eve.

 

[runwad]

My parents' Christmas celebration is on Christmas Day. My sisters come to me on Christmas Eve.

Oh I see. You've gotten good advice I have nothing to add. I have one of those families that you can't just say I have other plans. I get hounded to death at every turn for an explanation. So good luck.

 

[quandrea]

Oh I see. You've gotten good advice I have nothing to add. I have one of those families that you can't just say I have other plans. I get hounded to death at every turn for an explanation. So good luck.

Me too. I'm going to just say we have plans but I will get hounded to death. I figure no matter what I do they'll be ticked off so I'm going to forego Christmas anyway. Things can't get much worse. They already think little of me.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

They already think little of me.

BUT.... they think enough of you to try to bring you "back into the fold". Something must be telling them that you matter.

Not saying that you should go to/include them in your family plans, but just be aware they must think your opinions count for something, or they wouldn't be trying so hard to bring you back into the family group.

As noted, "we have other plans for that evening/day" Repeat...REPEAT....REPEAT.

 

[quandrea]

BUT.... they think enough of you to try to bring you "back into the fold". Something must be telling them that you matter.

Not saying that you should go to/include them in your family plans, but just be aware they must think your opinions count for something, or they wouldn't be trying so hard to bring you back into the family group.

As noted, "we have other plans for that evening/day" Repeat...REPEAT....REPEAT.

They don't want me back in the fold. They just have not chosen to sever contact with me. They fully respect my brother and parents' choice to disown me.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

They don't want me back in the fold. They just have not chosen to sever contact with me. They fully respect my brother and parents' choice to disown me.

I'm just saying, if someone chooses to remain in contact with another person that the rest of their friends/family shuns, they must see some worth in the person being shunned.

 

[piccolopat]

Let your sisters know soon that your family will celebrate Christmas Eve by yourselves and that you are letting them know now so that they can make other plans. I also suggest that the next time you see them, you tell your sisters that if they continue to treat you poorly, there is no point in getting together at all. There is no reason to continue to be verbally abused by your family and you may need talk to someone to help you cope. I hope you find a way to get past all of this and find peace in your life.

 

[ols386]

My gosh OP, I'm really sorry you're going through this.

At this point in time, I think I would fade into the background. I wouldn't even tell them that's what I'm doing. I would tell them you won't be having Christmas Eve this year, and I would not have anymore to do with them. This is what I would do.

They DON'T DESERVE you.

 

[ronandannette]

...And, this is an inherent, permanent, neurological affliction.
In other words... no matter how hard you try, and no matter how much you may wishful-think that things could improve.
This is just not going to happen.
It is like, impossible.

Boundaries are KEY here.
And, IMHO, bringing this up to them, bringing this up for discussion, is just playing right into their abilities to victimize you.
They will latch onto this like a rodent that bites and will simply not release.....

As I had mentioned earlier, I would not be the first to mention this.
When one of them brings it up... And, yes, there will be some comment about Christmas. Surely they do not expect to show up at your doorstep with absolutely no communication in advance...
Then, do as several of us are advising...

"DH and I will not be doing this year...."
"DH and I have other plans...."

Lather, Rinse, Repeat... repeat... repeat...
NO discussion or 'justification'.

Hmmm, really? Here I always thought personality disorders were psychological but I guess you learn something new every day on the DIS.

 

[Nancyg56]

I wish I could opt out of Christmas entirely. I mean the entire holiday.

Neither Mrs. Homie nor I believe in the religion behind the holiday, yet that doesn't stop her from decorating the house to the nines. We are so broke we can't even pay attention, yet we somehow have to come up with money to buy gifts for people we don't even like (seriously, neither of us like her dad, so let's just stop buying him Christmas gifts, MMMkay?). Then we have to buy gifts for each other, plus travel to my side of the family... ugh.

I wish we could just erase the holiday from our calendars.

WE celebrate and decorate and have a wonderful season, but the gift thing? Every year we spend less and buy fewer gifts. DH and I seldom spend much in each other, just s little someting to open up. FOr the family we have an exchange with a theme. Last year is was buy local, and was so much fun. One gift for the exchange and we are done. This year we are nto buying gifts for anyoen but the two kids on my street and my DGD, and a little something for the family we always have at our house.
Rasta- start a new tradition in your family. No gifts. Period. Enjoy your wife's exhuberace in decorating but leave the shopping out. Tell the fam you all have decided nto to contribute to the commercial aspect of Christmas.

Me too. I'm going to just say we have plans but I will get hounded to death. I figure no matter what I do they'll be ticked off so I'm going to forego Christmas anyway. Things can't get much worse. They already think little of me.

Wow, you do have it tough! I think it is sad that you cannot even enjoy your holiday. I would just tell your family that you are not up to Christmas Eve and will spend it alone with your own family. If they try to hound you tell them have made your decision, and be done with it. I am so sorry you have to do this.

 

[manning]

Haven't extended the invitation yet. It is just assumed it will be at my place, as history suggests that.



I took no offence at the pp remarks. He/She had no way of knowing the severity of the issues.



See my response above. This is all good advice.

As Tipsy Traveler intimated, the family dynamics at work here are pretty bad. Three years ago (this coming Christmas, actually), I told my brother I would no longer be lying for him. A domino effect ensued, which culminated in my parents disowning me. They have not seen nor spoken to me or their grandchildren since. My sisters have made no secret of the fact that they disagree with me but continue to see me because I'm their sister. They also see no reason why they can't repeatedly tell me how awful a person I am.

Through reading and some counselling I now understand that my family is enmeshed and any assertion of control of my own life is met as a betrayal. My father is a narcissist. He's launched a smear campaign against me and my husband, telling mutual acquaintances about how lost I am, how in need of help I am. My brother's unhealthy behaviour is met with sympathy and rescuing. My behaviour is viewed by the family as threatening,when in actual fact, I'm really just behaving as any normal adult women with a husband and children would behave.

Thus, cancelling Christmas with my sisters will just be more "naughty" behaviour from me. I know the mess it will create, but ultimately I'm ready for that because I just can't sit down to Christmas with them this year. It's been a bad year where they are concerned.

Sorry for the long post.

Get a divorce from the family. You will never miss them. Your husband snd children are now the important part of your life.

 

[Wishing on a star]

PrincessSHM, perhaps you do not have a full understanding of this kind of thing.
I will just say that one should not mis-interpret the effort to communicate as trying to 'bring back into the fold'.
Do not mis-interpret that as placing any value, whatsoever, on the other person.
Not at all.
In these cases, it is an effort to keep the captive victim 'captive' psychologically.
In these cases, this type of person chooses a 'chosen victiim' that can continually be controlled and disrespected and subject to their negative judgements. It has to be a person that, due to the dynamic, will find it very very hard to walk away. To the Narcissist, THEY must mean everything, and if you do not fully agree and comply, then you mean 'nothing'. They value NOBODY else's opinion....

It is a 'need' for these people to have somebody to control and disrespect and 'victimize'. So that they can maintain and prove their own superiority. They purposely choose others who are vulnerable, because they might not find it easy to walk away from the situation. Others, such as family members, employees that might be under their management/control, children, etc... are the most common subjects.
The only value that the chosen victim has is to 'meet the narcissist's needs'.

The very act of 'disengaging' and being able to walk-away when necessary/appropriate is the one and only thing that works to break that cycle.

The fact that the OP posted that the big factor was that she was the one in the family who actually went out and found a partner, married a spouse, etc... and clearly did not always put these parent's/sisters 'first'...
This is the kind of thing that these types of people just can not accept, and will then go to even further lengths to maintain control.
Because, by definition... NOTHING should ever be more important to the other person than the Narcissist.

What the OP has described is a very, very, dysfunctional, toxic, family, and not a 'fold'.

 

[Wishing on a star]

OP, not only will they 'hound' you for information. With no lack of boundaries.
But, be prepared for all kind of emotional and psychological pressures to be applied.
They will try to make you feel 'guilty'.
They will try to tell you that you are a horrible person.
They will 'fall on knives' and be so mortally wounded and offended.
They might threaten that "Well, if you don't want to do this at Christmas, then you are now totally written off and disowned. (that is just classic)
Probably all of the above.

 

[BigAlsGal]

Get diarrhea. Diarrhea gets you off the hook every time.

 

[Wishing on a star]

They don't want me back in the fold. They just have not chosen to sever contact with me. They fully respect my brother and parents' choice to disown me.

Exactly... and this is also very common.
At this point, the parent's are able to gain insight and control thru using the sisters as a middle-man.
The sisters are simply relaying the same disrespect, from the parents.

 

[Wishing on a star]

And, I do not want to forget to say...

OP, I know that this must be SO hurtful!!!
I am so, so, sorry that you are having to deal with this.
I can't even begin to imagine having a family that would just 'disown' me like that.
And, that kind if thing must hurt even more intensely at times like The Holidays.

I am def. sending many hugs.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

BUT.... they think enough of you to try to bring you "back into the fold". Something must be telling them that you matter.

Not saying that you should go to/include them in your family plans, but just be aware they must think your opinions count for something, or they wouldn't be trying so hard to bring you back into the family group.

As noted, "we have other plans for that evening/day" Repeat...REPEAT....REPEAT.

They're trying to bring her back into the fold, alright, but it's not because they respect or care about her. It's because they're trying to maintain the status quo so the wrath of their father's anger isn't focused on one of them (because the narcissist must, and always will, have a target). Quandrea's sisters are the Flying Monkeys. They're feeding information about her life back to her estranged parents and brother so they can still talk ish, pass judgements, and blame everything on her. Conversely, quandrea's parents are still able to abuse her by proxy, as evidenced by her comments that her sisters continually tell her how awful of a person she is. They're doing their parents' dirty work for them. And yes, I'm classifying both parents as abusive because her mother is the enabler to her narcissist father, and the enabler is always just as bad, if not worse, than the disordered individual.

Where things will really hit the fan is when quandrea cuts off her sisters and her father truly and for real loses access to his victim. That's when he, or more likely her enabler mother, will truly show their wrath.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Exactly, Tipsy...
Very well said.
I actually almost continued to post, in my comments above, with the exact same words... The you-know-what will hit the fan when the OP decides that she will not continue to engage and be a victim by-proxy.

I will just add, that in my own extended personal experience with this... I also thought of the mother as the accepting enabler. But, that wasn't quite true. She truly was a co-narcissist, and that came into clear view as the father passed away a number of years before she did.