Horrible Experiences with WDW buses last week!

[Cheshire Figment]

Several months ago I spoke with Randy (the owner of Randy's Mobility).

He will rent out ECVs to families where the user is as young as 12. However, the only circumstance he will rent for such a young user is if the child normally uses an ECV and it was not brought along.

Also, if it is an older (15+) teen with a breoken bone he will also allow use.

However, since he requires the user to be present when it is delivered, he or his driver will make a final decision that the child is capable of driving and controlling the ECV properly.

 

[blondietink]

Again, when I say "child driving an ECV" I mean child, like 7 or 8 years old. I work in a school, in all 3 building levels (Elementary, Middle and High). I can tell the difference between a young looking teen and a child. I also have an 18 year old boy with Down Syndrome who weighs 93 pounds and is the size of an 11 year old. There are tell tale ways of looking at him and coming close to his real age.

 

[Belle1962]

I am also surprised that someone in line didn't pipe up and say "hey they were here first, why aren't you loading them on?"D4D

Thanks for starting my day with a laugh. You must have missed the numerous threads on the other boards (Community and Theme Parks) about why it it is soooooo wrong for ecv's and their parties to get first boarding. Judging by those threads, the majority of DISers sure wouldn't be using that line!!!

But seriously--thank you for your offer to help document this on your next trip. I think that is really wonderful of you to offer!

 

[LindaBabe]

Count me as another ecv user denied boarding at least once during the week of September 6 - 13. Most of the drivers I encountered were both gracious and competent, but several told me to wait for the next bus even though their bus was no where near full. I also encountered the situation of the second bus pulling up next to the first, making it impossible for me to board. I think the drivers are "afraid" to ask people to move off the handicapped seats. (Possibly after some encounters with the aforementioned able bodied Disboarders?

Also, at WL, only every other boat to MK is accessable because so many people complained about having to share boats with Ft. Wilderness that they now have dedicated WL service and not enough accessable boats are available.

This trip, although the parks were pretty empty, I observed an exponentially larger number of ecvs than previously, and overheard several disturbing conversations among people using them for convenience rather than medical need.

I *will* be putting that number in my cell phone for my next trip.

 

[Ducky4Disney]

Thanks for starting my day with a laugh. You must have missed the numerous threads on the other boards (Community and Theme Parks) about why it it is soooooo wrong for ecv's and their parties to get first boarding. Judging by those threads, the majority of DISers sure wouldn't be using that line!!!

But seriously--thank you for your offer to help document this on your next trip. I think that is really wonderful of you to offer!

Yes, I did miss those threads - thank goodness or I would be irate. Has common courtesy gone wayward these days? Ok, it would suck when one ECV and a party of 9 gets on the bus gets on first and the bus is mostly full anyways - but that's the way the cookie crumbles. And you can't start asking people to demonstrate their illness - how sick are you? Can you *really* not walk or are you *really* in pain? So that situation will continue to happen - and people will abuse the ECV usage - we're not an obese nation for nothing .

But when I'm there with my Mom, who only has one leg - I would hope that someone will stick up for me if I needed it. What goes around, comes around...


D4D

 

[Chuck S]

I see another problem in the future if the trend becomes renting them for convenience, rather than need. Rising rental prices. Those that want them for convenience will continue to rent them, even at $70 or $80 or $100 per day. Those that need to rent them for medical needs will be stuck paying those prices, too, or will simply try to do without.

 

[DannysMom]

Now I'm worried. My DM and I are traveling together (no husbands or kids) and she needs a ECV to get around. SHe was planning on going back to the hotel alone each afternoon and now I am getting worried that she will end up stranded or taking forever to get back. If I was with her I would demand assistance, but I know she won't. What can I do?

I would suggest escorting her out to the bus area and waiting with her to make sure that she gets loaded onto a bus in a reasonable amount of time. That and keep the numbers and suggestions that Sue has provided on what to do if you have transportation issues at the ready. Her getting off the bus and navigating the hotel back to the room should be less of an issue. Even if you don't have a parkhopper, re-entry into the same park isn't a problem.

This whole problem just gets me so angry. My son has mild CP and while right now he's still small enough that we are using a stroller for distance travelling, he will most probably need some kind of mobility assistance eventually. That my son could one day be treated like this just gets this mother's righteous fury going. I've never witnesses such outright discrimination in all the times we've taken buses, but next time we go I will certainly have the number programmed in my phone and will revisit the suggestions Sue has posted, just in case I do. And believe me I *will* help anyone that needs it, rude and discriminatory bus drivers beware.

 

[clkelley]

I just wanted to comment that we were there over Labor Day weekend at All-Star Music and had NO ECV loading issues whatsoever.

It seems that the problem started right after Labor Day. "Something" happened the day after labor day. Maybe they finally let some folks take vacations after the busy holiday season and they were more short-staffed than normal. (They are ALWAYS short-staffed on busses, even at full staffing levels).

No excusing Disney as it should never happen, but that could be one explanation.

 

[SueM in MN]

There are some very good drivers, a few bad drivers and a very few very bad drivers.
When these threads have come up, usually some of the good drivers check in to let us know how bad they feel for things like this happening. They are just as upset/irate about it as we are.
Those few drivers give all the drivers a bad name.

I think some of the bad drivers don't do a good job with ECVs and wheelchairs is because they are lazy. That happened to us last October.
Others do it because it's 'easier' for them to tell on wheelchair/ECV driver no than to listen to a bunch of people get on the bus and complain to them. The bad bus drivers are also counting on the fact that most people with wheelchairs/ECVs don't know their rights and/or don't want to cause any fuss. If the driver says the bus is full, the majority of people are not going to do anything except wait for the next bus.

From the conversations my family has had with managers, Disney does want to do something about the bad drivers, but they can't unless they know.
So, if you run into a problem, keep reporting.

 

[angelbearmom]

I was at AS Sports Sept 8-14 with ds 16 who is in a wheelchair. We also had friends who have a daughter in a chair staying near us. The first few days things were wonderful and I couldn't understand why people had complained about Disney transportation. Then Ike hit on Wed. and everyone decided they had to leave the parks all at once and the drivers became horrible. We were trying to get from ASsports to Flying Fish and started trying to get a bus at 6 for our 7:30 reservation. 7 busses refused to load us even though on all busses there were no other ecvs or wheelchairs. What bugged me is that the signs on the busses clearly say "passengers in these seats MUST (not should, but must) vacate these seats for passengers in wheelchairs or ecvs". The drivers refused to ask people to move. My friend contacted the company and was told the next bus would take us, they didn't. She then went to the concierge who started phoning the company and complaining and was also told the next bus would take us. She went up to the door of the next bus and was also told that no he wouldn't take us. This was while we were in the middle of a huge thunderstorm (outer bands of Ike). The hotel finally ended up calling a cab for us and got us to our restaurant an hour late for our reservation. The restaurant was great and saved our table.

But, it was so late when we were done eating that the parks were closed so we had to take a bus to DTD to catch the bus back to our hotel. 4 busses refused to take us then-yes they were crowded but there were no wheelchairs or ecvs on them. Several did what others described where they double parked so said they couldn't take us. There was a superviser standing in the area though so my friend went and complained to him and he got us on the next bus. After that, supervisers seemed to be everywhere and we had no further problems.

It was really hard on both the children. I'm hoping things have improved this week. Our hotel went above and beyond and made a formal complaint to the bus company.

Apart from that we all had a great time. I've gotten sick since coming home and ds and I have both been exhausted so haven't written about our trip yet or even gotten pictures online. I will soon.

 

[momejay]

My mom used an ECV. She needed it because the chemo she was on injured her heart & she would have shortness of breath. (Not to mention that her back had more replacement parts than original.)
I have an autistic child that uses a wheelchair that I can fold much like a stroller & a second autistic child.
We had problems that the normal population of ECV riders complain about, broken lifts, waiting close to an hour & we knew enough to leave earlier than we had to & to really plan ahead.
On my mom's last trip, we waited in the hot sun, in August, at Epcot, for a bus to come for 45 minutes. This first bus said the lift wasn't working & we should wait for the next bus. He told us he would radio for another bus. We were the only guests waiting. Well we waited & waited. Finally about a half hour later the same fellow came back & wondered why we were still there. Now miraculously his lift works, I get my mom on the bus, as the only guests on the bus & we head back. We had intended a rest, some lunch & maybe a swim & meeting up with family later. We ended up wasting that day entirely. By the time my mom had rested it was beyond dinner time & we ate in the room & went to bed.
The next trouble we had that trip was when we tried to get back to the room before the fireworks. It was again Epcot. My son at that time was upset by fireworks. We got to the stop just as a bus was loading & we were asked to wait for the next one. We got in line around 7:45 PM. Plenty of time to get on a bus before the fireworks, right? Wrong! I don't remember how many buses came & went. I just remember being told that my son couldn't ride because of his behavior, due to fireworks blasting in the background. I sent my mom alone on the bus as she was already strapped in. I couldn't send my daughter with her as she couldn't run after her if she decided to bolt, but yet, I couldn't handle both children alone either. It was very scary. After my mom left I realized I had the room keys. Finally someone smart enough realized why my son was tantrumming & told me I should have left the park sooner. Well, DUH!!! Now the crowds of people leaving before the fireworks & after were coming. I explained that we had been waiting since 7:45. He got us a bus that we rode on alone as my son was so upset by then I had to carry him kicking, biting & screaming in terror. (my 150 lb baby) My daughter then sat in his chair & refused to move. The bus manager strapped her in the wheelchair on the bus & we were able to get on the bus. The ride back was fine. As soon as we got going, my son's tantrum stopped. We got bak to the room 56 minutes after my mother. (who was waiting asleep leaning against the wall near our room.) I haven't been on a bus since!
I realize that my circumstances are unique, but I tried to prevent a problem before it happened. We learn from our mistakes. My mom died a month later. I so wanted our trip to be a happy memory & for the most part it was. I will never be left stranded by a bus again!

 

[agnes!]

All these posts...it just breaks my heart. I'm so sorry that there seems to be a problem with able-bodied bus-drivers denying access to transportation. So sorry. It just shouldn't happen, especially at WDW.

I had to use a wheelchair the last time we were at WDW (broke my toe at Wilderness Lodge). I was ambulatory enough, however, that I only needed the chair in the parks, I could walk to transportation.

agnes!

 

[kat_balou]

We were at WDW Sept. 7-13. We had a rental car but took the bus 2 days going to MK. I had a couple of very nice drivers however on the way back to our resort one afternoon for break we were the only family on the bus. Dh loads my ECV on the bus and I sit up in the front of the bus because I tend to get motion sickness from the bus. I overheard the dispatcher on the driver's radio say a family with an ECV needed to be picked up and that they had been passed by 4 times because the drivers all said they were full. The dispatcher said, "how can that be?" Dh and I looked at each other because we knew how low the crowds were and we were the only family on our bus.

On one of the those MK days going back to MK after our break we only had an ADR at Crystal Palace and then we were going back to our resort so I didn't bring my ECV. I have muscular dystrophy and sometimes I have to walk or my muscles tighten so bad. That particular driver we had going to MK had an attitude. We stopped to pick up someone with an ECV and when the driver got out of his seat he sighed really loud and shook his head. I could just tell he didn't like having to load that ECV.

 

[a1tinkfans]

This thread Breaks my HEART and GETS me VERY upset! I really hope that NO one has to experience this, and I am SAYING it......DISCRIMINATION!!

There was NO REASON that a bus driver would not politely ask someone to move, there are seats MARKED for ecv's. It is a DISGRACE that DISNEY should handle ASAP!

While we were on property late August we saw MANY ecv's and wheelchairs and strollers and they ALWAYS got on the bus. I NEVER saw ANYONE turned away, thankfully.


BY the way, have you noticed that parents will give 3,4 5 seats to kids while a pregnant woman or elderly person is STANDING in a packed bus?
What has this world come too, GET UP ABLE BODIED people, atleast have your kids sit on laps, REALLY, how about some simple consideration???
And NO, I am not handicapped, just disappointed with todays "all about me" attitude! We ALWAYS offer our seats, it is just the way we were raised I guess!
Sorry for rant!

 

[Nie0214]

Aubriee I am so sorry you had to go through that. It was wonderful meeting y'all though.

We ran into a gentleman and his family about 3 times on our trip (outside EPCOT in line for the bus, outside MK, at our resort once or twice). His mother was with them, and she was using the ECV. He had so many problems, between bus drivers that just didn't know how to work it and get the thing on board, etc. The EPCOT bus loading his mother took about 20 minutes to leave because he just didn't know how to do it. (A second bus pulled up behind it to load people on, so if there was anyone else with an ECV waiting, they wouldn't have been able to get on either.)

Riding the bus as an able-bodied one, I did notice some drivers were quick and helpful, and others just didn't notice the ECV people waiting or avoided them, or something. I definitely felt like they need to train their bus drivers on loading ECVs.

 

[Twilight Terror]

and I bet this never happens when there is a CM with a clipboard noting crowds and bus times!!

How wrong you are!

We were staying at POR from 2-16th Sept. There was something up with the buses the entire time, and seemed to get worse as the holiday went on. Repeatedly we waited more than 30mins for a bus, and then two would come together.

Anyway, we were traveling with a wheelchair, not an ECV, and the times we were refused access to the bus were few, I assume after reading this thread because we had a wheelchair, not an ECV. However, one of the times we were refused, we actually had not one, but TWO CM's at the bus stops. We had the normal guy (who we got to know!) with his clipboard taking bus times, but also another CM who was a manager.

We were waiting for a bus to either DTD or Epcot, and a bus for one of the other parks that stops at the same bus stop was already pulled in. The bus we were waiting for pulled in behind, but on the bend so it couldn't load the wheelchair. We went up to his door after he opened and started loading people and were like "hello, we want to get on this bus". He said he couldn't load us because he was in the wrong place, the other bus was in the way and he was too busy, and that we would have to wait for the next one. This was after a 35min wait with no bus whatsoever.

Mum (in the wheelchair) was livid and went rolling over the manager guy, telling him that the driver was refusing to load her. He then went and had a "word" with the driver, and bingo, the driver closes his door and moves forward to where he should have stopped in the first place and loads us! He wasn't exactly happy about it and did it as quickly as he could, with little words.

The irony of it was, that bus was empty when it pulled into the non-bus stop, before he got too impatient to wait for the one in front to pull out. Had he not opened his doors when he shouldn't have, there would have been no one on board. Besides, once we were loaded his "busy" bus consisted of just our wheelchair and two people now standing. Now I don't call that busy!

The other problem I had issue with was safety! On numerous occasions, mum's wheelchair was not secured properly. One night, the chair actually tipped slightly, and it was only because both me and my sister had given up our seats and were standing beside her (and in between the front belts) that we kept her from going anywhere.

On various trips we had belts that weren't tight enough, extended arms (for the front belts) not bolted into the bus floor properly, so one kick would have made them loose and useless. Drivers were attaching the hooks directly to the chair wheels - great, apart from the fact that chair has easy-release wheels that can pop off! Other times they were attaching them to foot plate, again brilliant because they too just pop up and off! Transportation was the pain of our holiday, although more about not getting anywhere fast that too much refusal.

But on a positive note, we did have some amazing drivers who knew exactly what they were doing, and did it in the right manner and with the right attitude, right up to telling those who tried to sneak on the back to get back off the bus, join the queue and get on the front! So there were a few nice ones out there!

/rant (Boy, that felt good!)

 

[SueM in MN]

The other problem I had issue with was safety! On numerous occasions, mum's wheelchair was not secured properly. One night, the chair actually tipped slightly, and it was only because both me and my sister had given up our seats and were standing beside her (and in between the front belts) that we kept her from going anywhere.

On various trips we had belts that weren't tight enough, extended arms (for the front belts) not bolted into the bus floor properly, so one kick would have made them loose and useless. Drivers were attaching the hooks directly to the chair wheels - great, apart from the fact that chair has easy-release wheels that can pop off! Other times they were attaching them to foot plate, again brilliant because they too just pop up and off! Transportation was the pain of our holiday, although more about not getting anywhere fast that too much refusal.

But on a positive note, we did have some amazing drivers who knew exactly what they were doing, and did it in the right manner and with the right attitude, right up to telling those who tried to sneak on the back to get back off the bus, join the queue and get on the front! So there were a few nice ones out there!

/rant (Boy, that felt good!)

One of the recommendations I make is that people look at their wheelchair (whether it is their own or rented) and find some safe tiedown spots. Not all wheelchairs are the same, so it's important that you become the expert on your wheelchair.
Safe places are part of the frame of the wheelchair, and not parts that are able to be taken off.
Wheels used to be considered a safe tiedown spot a long time ago (my DD's never were because she has always had quick release tires on her wheelchair), They are no longer considered a safe spot.
Even the good drivers who are trying to be careful may get tripped up with the footrests - the ones on my DD's current manual wheelchair don't swing out to the side, so it is safe to attach the tiedowns there. Most of the rental ones don't swing away or detach. But, some wheelchairs do have removable or swing away footplates. That kind should not be used for a tiedown spot.

We use bright colored tape to mark the safe tiedown spots on DD's manual wheelchair. It's much easier to tell the driver to look for the pink tape than it is to try to direct the driver to something like "the horizontal tube in the middle of the back of the wheelchair". Not all drivers will listen (as we found out in October 2007), but most of the drivers we encountered were happy that we could tell them where to attach.

 

[Mom2PrincessesLinSy]

T
BY the way, have you noticed that parents will give 3,4 5 seats to kids while a pregnant woman or elderly person is STANDING in a packed bus?
What has this world come too, GET UP ABLE BODIED people, atleast have your kids sit on laps, REALLY, how about some simple consideration???
And NO, I am not handicapped, just disappointed with todays "all about me" attitude! We ALWAYS offer our seats, it is just the way we were raised I guess!
Sorry for rant!

I agree. I am a Pediatric Occupational Therapist, and always note who is in a chair, ECV, etc when we get on the bus. More because I am looking at the different brands and how they work out so I can use them for my own patients! I haven't seen anyone denied boarding, not that I don't think it happens. Totally sucks...

But I have been to Disney once when I was pregnant (actually high risk at the time) and also with an infant. There were several times I had to stand on the bus when pregnant, holding onto a bar for dear life while my belly would bang into it as the driver starts and stops, slows down and speeds up repeatedly. Totally able bodied men sitting in seats, teens and young to middle aged women, etc. Completely upset at Men who are clearly DADs and didn't make room for a pregnant woman or small children while they sit in a seat!!!

The worst was after waiting 1 hour for a bus at then MGM. My "older" parents weren't feeling well, but stayed in line as best they could waiting, each taking a break to sit close to the line, but not far enough they wouldn't be able to board. Meanwhile, DH and I are passing our 1 year old (who is fast asleep) back and forth because our backs were killing us. We chose to rent a stroller in the parks that trip, because we were tired of the c**p of trying to get even folded stroller on a bus. Finally we boarded, although I seriously hesitated because I saw it was standing room only. But the buses were few and far between, so on we went. Sadly with the assumption that *Someone* would at least let one of us (either my parents, or DH or I) sit with DD, and also our other DD who was 3 1/2 at the time.

But no, I braced myself against the plexiwall towards the back of the bus( you know where the ECVs are strapped?) held the baby and wrapped my arms around the pole (and DD) in front of me. My mom faced backwards and wrapped her arms around me to keep me from falling while standing and holding DD. Our other DD held onto my leg, and I steadied her with my leg bracing her to the same pole I was clinging to for dear life (since our bus driver was one of those who slow down and speed up throughout the trip, jerking the bus constantly) I am teary eyed just recounting the horrific trip from MGM to the Contemporary!! I even went so far as to continuously comment on how difficult was and dangerous it was to have a baby in your arms, and a small child standing while a bus was moving, but in a car the children MUST be strapped into a safety seat. Um, hello, anyone see a problem here??

Anyway, sorry for the rant. Totally understand the frustration, from all angles!

 

[Nie0214]

I offered my seat a few times on my last trip to mothers and every single one said "No thanks". I'd hate for someone to think I'm just a rude young person because I didn't offer my seat, but I did, and have, and always will. The All-Stars buses can get crammed. :/

 

[mmmbop]

I remember one trip in which I saw an older lady who looked absolutely beat, and I offered her my seat, she was so thankful for it, and then a teenage guy sat in it! That same time, some teen boys were sitting in my grandmother's ECV.