DVC Guaranteed Event Weeks

[KAT4DISNEY]

I talked to a guide after the race this past week. She is a runner herself. She told me that it will be week one for the marathon weekend and that as long as you come in and start you stay during your week you can call and book it 12 months out. Example: If you check in on Tuesday of week one you can check out the following Tuesday. She also explained that it does not have to be a full week and they will convert the extra points back to your account.

I'm surprised to hear that they would allow you to book less nights at 12 months. I'd think it would be book the week at 12 months or wait until 11 months to book a different number of nights. There's been a premium for fixed weeks but if it's not an entire week then that wouldn't exactly follow. DVC probably doesn't care but it doesn't seem quite fair for other CCV owners.

 

[Ben E N]

It says “Owner also receives advance opportunity to purchase up to 5 race registrations each year”...opportunity doesn’t mean the bib purchase is guaranteed.

Well I would assume a bib, long sleeved t-shirt, and finishers medal, as well as a couple of bananas, are included in each registration, as long as you show up to race.
Even their virtual marathon has a print at home bib included in registration.

 

[crisi]

So you buy a timeshare with a fifty year life when you are a 30 year old runner, assuming that Disney will continue to offer marathons, and that you will continue to run? Add to the risk pile "tear up knee, take up swimming."

 

[Ben E N]

So you buy a timeshare with a fifty year life when you are a 30 year old runner, assuming that Disney will continue to offer marathons, and that you will continue to run? Add to the risk pile "tear up knee, take up swimming."

...or it could turn you into this guy...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Whitlock

 

[DenLo]

DVC fixed weeks are Sun-Sunday.

As I read it the week will move to follow the race weekend shifts so it's a bit different than a standard fixed week.

How can this work? Maybe they are not really selling them a fixed week but a deed that entitles them to the 7 nights around a race.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

How can this work? Maybe they are not really selling them a fixed week but a deed that entitles them to the 7 nights around a race.

The information given to those that call sounds like that is the case. They can book at 12 months out for dates around the race.

 

[wdrl]

I talked to a guide after the race this past week. She is a runner herself. She told me that it will be week one for the marathon weekend and that as long as you come in and start you stay during your week you can call and book it 12 months out. Example: If you check in on Tuesday of week one you can check out the following Tuesday. She also explained that it does not have to be a full week and they will convert the extra points back to your account.

It says “Owner also receives advance opportunity to purchase up to 5 race registrations each year”...opportunity doesn’t mean the bib purchase is guaranteed.

The information given to those that call sounds like that is the case. They can book at 12 months out for dates around the race.

Maybe I'm missing something, but . . .

Let's say that I'm not a runner and have no intention in running a Disney race. However, I like going to WDW in early November every year, which is about the time the Disney Wine and Dine Half Marathon is held. I could buy a special deed for the first week in November and get the right to book at 12 months, beating out all the other Copper Creek owners that can't book until the normal 11-month window opens. Although I might have the opportunity to buy race registrations, I'm not obligated to do so.

So, I'm assured of getting a villa during one of the busiest times of the DVC calendar; I can book before most other Copper Creek owners; I'm not stuck to a Sunday-to-Sunday check-in and check-out; I don't have to stay a full week if it doesn't suit my plans; and I get my points back if I don't use a full week. And I don't have to be a runner to get these options.

Like I said, what am I misunderstanding?

 

[miTnosnhoJ]

Maybe I'm missing something, but . . .

Let's say that I'm not a runner and have no intention in running a Disney race. However, I like going to WDW in early November every year, which is about the time the Disney Wine and Dine Half Marathon is held. I could buy a special deed for the first week in November and get the right to book at 12 months, beating out all the other Copper Creek owners that can't book until the normal 11-month window opens. Although I might have the opportunity to buy race registrations, I'm not obligated to do so.

So, I'm assured of getting a villa during one of the busiest times of the DVC calendar; I can book before most other Copper Creek owners; I'm not stuck to a Sunday-to-Sunday check-in and check-out; I don't have to stay a full week if it doesn't suit my plans; and I get my points back if I don't use a full week. And I don't have to be a runner to get these options.

Like I said, what am I misunderstanding?

I believe you are correct. Disney is obligated to offer you the bibs, but you are not obligated to take them.
The downsides would be that you forego any deals that Disney is offering - you pay full price. And if you use the guarantee, you spend more points for the room than if you book the same room at 11 months. But you would take the drama out of getting a difficult week.

 

[Ben E N]

Maybe I'm missing something, but . . .

Let's say that I'm not a runner and have no intention in running a Disney race. However, I like going to WDW in early November every year, which is about the time the Disney Wine and Dine Half Marathon is held. I could buy a special deed for the first week in November and get the right to book at 12 months, beating out all the other Copper Creek owners that can't book until the normal 11-month window opens. Although I might have the opportunity to buy race registrations, I'm not obligated to do so.

So, I'm assured of getting a villa during one of the busiest times of the DVC calendar; I can book before most other Copper Creek owners; I'm not stuck to a Sunday-to-Sunday check-in and check-out; I don't have to stay a full week if it doesn't suit my plans; and I get my points back if I don't use a full week. And I don't have to be a runner to get these options.

Like I said, what am I misunderstanding?

Disney would love for you to do it. They are getting more money for the same amount of points, and do not care if you or another guy stay in that room during that time of year as long as all the points get sold and are maintained.
Why not just buy a set week if you know you are going then? I don't think you can go for less than a week. From the offer website:

NOTE: Requires purchase of a fixed week ownership interest at Copper Creek Villas & Cabins at Disney’s Wilderness Lodge that includes a special event right associated with a runDisney event weekend.

 

[ziravan]

If DVC is offering the ability to flex the start date of a fixed week and flex the number of days with a refund of points for the balance then this is something that should be offered to all guaranteed owners.

I own a week 44 Poly Lake View. (1st week of Nov, with ending weekend typically F&W marathon weekend.) I typically book 6 nights starting on Thurs. I bought the guarantee as a hedge against future trends. If I could move my start back to Thurs and get a point refund on the last night or two each year, then I’d use my guarantee each year.

I don’t care for the bibs, but the flexibility would be nice.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Maybe I'm missing something, but . . .

Let's say that I'm not a runner and have no intention in running a Disney race. However, I like going to WDW in early November every year, which is about the time the Disney Wine and Dine Half Marathon is held. I could buy a special deed for the first week in November and get the right to book at 12 months, beating out all the other Copper Creek owners that can't book until the normal 11-month window opens. Although I might have the opportunity to buy race registrations, I'm not obligated to do so.

So, I'm assured of getting a villa during one of the busiest times of the DVC calendar; I can book before most other Copper Creek owners; I'm not stuck to a Sunday-to-Sunday check-in and check-out; I don't have to stay a full week if it doesn't suit my plans; and I get my points back if I don't use a full week. And I don't have to be a runner to get these options.

Like I said, what am I misunderstanding?

I don't get the book less than a week at 12 months - that had to be some misunderstanding either in the guides info or the communication. Or DVC has lost it to get a handful of sales. That's a pretty sweet guaranteed week to have if you like early November or Jersey week just with having your start date any day of the week.

 

[Dean]

A couple of thoughts. It looks like you have to buy a specific event week, not one ownership that covers all, as worded on the announcement. Anyone discussed with DVD sufficiently to have a feel for how this really works? Other companies have singled out specific weeks to sell but normally they block the entire resort like prime ski weeks and do so by a traditional timeshare calendar specifying a week number. This would have to be in the POS from the start as it's negative those that own at that resort, anyone own there and have the POS to dig out the wording. They wouldn't be able to add this after they'd made sales without a lot of hoops involving those owners.

 

[ziravan]

A couple of thoughts. It looks like you have to buy a specific event week, not one ownership that covers all, as worded on the announcement. Anyone discussed with DVD sufficiently to have a feel for how this really works? Other companies have singled out specific weeks to sell but normally they block the entire resort like prime ski weeks and do so by a traditional timeshare calendar specifying a week number. This would have to be in the POS from the start as it's negative those that own at that resort, anyone own there and have the POS to dig out the wording. They wouldn't be able to add this after they'd made sales without a lot of hoops involving those owners.

I’m fairly sure the POS for Poly says that they have the right to reserve up to 35% of any given room category and night with a guaranteed week 12 month reservation.

I don’t think whether that’s Sun-Sun or Thurs-Thurs or less than a week matters. So long as the maximum potential of options exercised stays below 35%/night/category.

With the 3 previous resorts that sold fixed weeks, that’s not a problem, at all.

Could it become a problem if DVC finds a niche to sell fixed weeks and do so at volume? Yes. Especially if we’re talking about CCV studios, the most likely target of this promotion anyway. My guess is that DVC would consider that to be a good problem to have to figure out.

 

[Dean]

I’m fairly sure the POS for Poly says that they have the right to reserve up to 35% of any given room category and night with a guaranteed week 12 month reservation.

I don’t think whether that’s Sun-Sun or Thurs-Thurs or less than a week matters. So long as the maximum potential of options exercised stays below 35%/night/category.

With the 3 previous resorts that sold fixed weeks, that’s not a problem, at all.

Could it become a problem if DVC finds a niche to sell fixed weeks and do so at volume? Yes. Especially if we’re talking about CCV studios, the most likely target of this promotion anyway. My guess is that DVC would consider that to be a good problem to have to figure out.

I understand the intricacies of doing so and agree there are legal ways to do so, it was the specifics I was curious about. With the previous iterations of fixed weeks, it was based on the standard timeshare calendar with a checkin of Sunday. This seems like it might be different and I do think the POS would have to be worded differently, esp if it allows variability of check in and/or LOS. Whether it impacts other guests wasn't my point, it likely will if they sell a sufficient volume and I'm OK with that as long as it's done legally. But it would have to be in the POS in such a way that specifically allows this type of sale from the get go OR they'd have to have the permission of a % of the actual owners if done later. I do not believe that just a wording that allowed up to 35% fixed weeks would be sufficient as I'm seeing this posted so far.

 

[ziravan]

From my post above: “So long as the maximum potential of options stays below 35%...”

For example, I own a week 44. If I were given the right to adjust the start of my trip by up to one week in either direction, that would impact both weeks 43 and 45.

If EVERYBODY with a week 43 stayed within their week and EVERYBODY with a week 44 slid their start time back towards week 43, then the total number of night for both weeks combined has to cap at 35%.

With race weeks, that’s the end of it because you’re talking about what, five to six non-contiguous weeks throughout the year (that don’t include weeks 49/50 where most fixed weeks are sold).

But. Add in contiguous weeks (like grandfather previous fixed week owners into that flexibility), and the potential overlap goes both directions: Week 43 all books into their week, week 42 all pushes their week into 43 and week 44 pulls their dates back into 43. Three different week owners pushing the 35% limit.

This could be a problem for week 49/50 owners or if fixed week sales take off because of positive tinkering with the formula.

It’s easy to fix but might be more hassle than it’s worth. If you stay completely within your week, you’re automatically booked. That happens now. Sliding your start date back or forward at 12 months is permissible subject to the availability that doing so won’t break the 35% cap of the week that you’re overlapping.

Example, for ease of discussion, a resort has 100 rooms in a category. So 35 of them can be fixed weeks any given night. Let’s say that there are 25 week 49 owners. That means at the start of this process, up to 10 week 48/50 owners could push/pull into 49. In reality, though, 14 of the week 49 owners broke their guarantee prior to the 12 month window in order to borrow their points. So really, there are 24 spots avail for adjustments from neighboring weeks into 49. But if 25 people want to make that move, the last person making the request would have to be denied based on availability. Of course, if another week 49 owners opts out before the 11 month window opens, then the last/next sliding owner has an opening.

That is almost certainly too much work for too little outcome for DVC. Especially if they can limit movable start dates to non-contiguous weeks that don’t include weeks 49/50 (e.g. race weeks).

 

[Dean]

From my post above: “So long as the maximum potential of options stays below 35%...”

For example, I own a week 44. If I were given the right to adjust the start of my trip by up to one week in either direction, that would impact both weeks 43 and 45.

If EVERYBODY with a week 43 stayed within their week and EVERYBODY with a week 44 slid their start time back towards week 43, then the total number of night for both weeks combined has to cap at 35%.

With race weeks, that’s the end of it because you’re talking about what, five to six non-contiguous weeks throughout the year (that don’t include weeks 49/50 where most fixed weeks are sold).

But. Add in contiguous weeks (like grandfather previous fixed week owners into that flexibility), and the potential overlap goes both directions: Week 43 all books into their week, week 42 all pushes their week into 43 and week 44 pulls their dates back into 43. Three different week owners pushing the 35% limit.

This could be a problem for week 49/50 owners or if fixed week sales take off because of positive tinkering with the formula.

It’s easy to fix but might be more hassle than it’s worth. If you stay completely within your week, you’re automatically booked. That happens now. Sliding your start date back or forward at 12 months is permissible subject to the availability that doing so won’t break the 35% cap of the week that you’re overlapping.

Example, for ease of discussion, a resort has 100 rooms in a category. So 35 of them can be fixed weeks any given night. Let’s say that there are 25 week 49 owners. That means at the start of this process, up to 10 week 48/50 owners could push/pull into 49. In reality, though, 14 of the week 49 owners broke their guarantee prior to the 12 month window in order to borrow their points. So really, there are 24 spots avail for adjustments from neighboring weeks into 49. But if 25 people want to make that move, the last person making the request would have to be denied based on availability. Of course, if another week 49 owners opts out before the 11 month window opens, then the last/next sliding owner has an opening.

That is almost certainly too much work for too little outcome for DVC. Especially if they can limit movable start dates to non-contiguous weeks that don’t include weeks 49/50.

I don't read the POS that way for the fixed weeks. It's based on sales, not reservations. I know it's possible, almost anything is if done correctly in timeshares, but I believe the wording has to be different for this to occur. IMO the 35% limit alone does not cover this.

 

[ziravan]

I understand the intricacies of doing so and agree there are legal ways to do so, it was the specifics I was curious about. With the previous iterations of fixed weeks, it was based on the standard timeshare calendar with a checkin of Sunday. This seems like it might be different and I do think the POS would have to be worded differently, esp if it allows variability of check in and/or LOS. Whether it impacts other guests wasn't my point, it likely will if they sell a sufficient volume and I'm OK with that as long as it's done legally. But it would have to be in the POS in such a way that specifically allows this type of sale from the get go OR they'd have to have the permission of a % of the actual owners if done later. I do not believe that just a wording that allowed up to 35% fixed weeks would be sufficient as I'm seeing this posted so far.

I’m not near my POS, but if I recall, the POS did list Sun-Sun weeks and how that lines up for like two years or so and then points out that that is an example of how it should work and you’ll have to do your own calculations about later years.

I think that’s the technical leeway. Because fixed weeks change year to year, with the calendar, the definition is, by necessity, fluid.

Fluid enough to allow sliding start dates? I guess that depends on if this gets confirmed.

 

[ziravan]

I don't read the POS that way for the fixed weeks. It's based on sales, not reservations. I know it's possible, almost anything is if done correctly in timeshares, but I believe the wording has to be different for this to occur. IMO the 35% limit alone does not cover this.

Don’t agree. The cap is to protect other owners. It’s not those other owner’s concern how many fixed weeks DVC sales, only what availability remains at the 11 month window.

DVC has contractually promised that at least 65% of availability will be there at 8am at 11 months (walking notwithstanding).

 

[Dean]

Don’t agree. The cap is to protect other owners. It’s not those other owner’s concern how many fixed weeks DVC sales, only what availability remains at the 11 month window.

DVC has contractually promised that at least 65% of availability will be there at 8am at 11 months (walking notwithstanding).

That's not my understanding of how the POS is worded. IIRC it's based on sales of fixed weeks not reservations. IF they sell 10% fixed for a given week, that's all that can be reserved based on the previous wording.

 

[wdrl]

The Polynesian and Copper Creek Master Declarations have the same wording on the Guaranteed Week. There is nothing that requires a Fixed Week start and stop on Sunday.

However, there is a stipulation that Disney will always have at least 65% of each accommodation type available for the traditional DVC members. The Polynesian Master Declaration states

"However, DVD will not sell Fixed Ownership Interests that include more than thirty-five (35%) of any specific day for any specific Vacation Home Type in the Plan. This means, for example, that Christmas day will be available for reservations on a first-come, first served basis in at least sixty-five (65%) of the "Studio Lake View" Vacation Home." (section 12.11.1.2, emphasis added)​

Given the flexibility of the wording in the documents, DVD could easily sell weeks that start on any day of the week. They could also shift weeks around without a problem as long as DVD always leaves 65% of each accommodation type available for traditional DVC members to book.

Given the very small number of Fixed Weeks sold so far at Copper Creek (only 9 such deeds through December 2017), DVD will have no difficulty keeping within the 35%-65% cap.