Disney Riviera Resort

[DrDeb]

100% agree across the board.

I would have probably bought more later...but they started charging $8 more per point every six months for about 6 years straight...so I waved to the ship as it left the dock

I just LOVE reading your posts thanks for making me smile today

 

[amberpi]

Seems like a reasonable strategic decision. You've been saying that WDW is not a playground for the rich, as much as Disney might like to fancy it that in some ways. Choosing not to offer that "high level service" seems like they might well agree with you...

Its a play ground for the upper middle class. The price point at WDW is not tied to the market...or service levels. I've got 0 issues with that too, but it is what it is.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Its a play ground for the upper middle class. The price point at WDW is not tied to the market...or service levels. I've got 0 issues with that too, but it is what it is.

I'd say middle class and upper middle class. And WDW certainly suffers in economic downturns so it's not divorced from the market (is that what you meant - wasn't sure).

Wrt service levels... prices not tied to that wrt hotels -- I agree. We're paying a WDW premium that allows them to charge more for the rooms than you could charge elsewhere.

But if you think about it, that's not too different from NYC. A shoebox in NYC in the right area is more expensive than a suite in a lot of places. Location, location, location.

 

[amberpi]

I'd say middle class and upper middle class. And WDW certainly suffers in economic downturns so it's not divorced from the market (is that what you meant - wasn't sure).

Wrt service levels... prices not tied to that wrt hotels -- I agree. We're paying a WDW premium that allows them to charge more for the rooms than you could charge elsewhere.

But if you think about it, that's not too different from NYC. A shoebox in NYC in the right area is more expensive than a suite in a lot of places. Location, location, location.

The price and service levels being at a premium, which I'm happy to pay to a point, for what you get, is what I meant by market. I just wonder if the WDW hotel occupancies are really what are quoted around on these boards - based on conversions from hotel rooms to DVC units. I don't know though, just throwing things out there. I mean, WDW is doing a good job keeping supply low and demand high - I think? I've admitted I don't know hospitality besides being a large consumer of it

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Seems like a reasonable strategic decision. You've been saying that WDW is not a playground for the rich, as much as Disney might like to fancy it that in some ways. Choosing not to offer that "high level service" seems like they might well agree with you...

There's no "might" about it...it's a balanacing act to give the appearance without committing to the bill. Been on the other side of that name tag where these things are key...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Wdw absolutely suffers its longest nights during recessions...which means it still is tied to the American middle class...who consistently get crushed and lose their purchasing power during recessions.

 

[nkosiek]

Wdw absolutely suffers its longest nights during recessions...which means it still is tied to the American middle class...who consistently get crushed and lose their purchasing power during recessions.

Are you suggesting winter is coming for WDW?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Are you suggesting winter is coming for WDW?

...I've seen what lies beyond the wall...

 

[amberpi]

...I've seen what lies beyond the wall...

But which park would be the best fit for a GOT land?

 

[beer dave]

But which park would be the best fit for a GOT land?

Now that would be an interesting immersion resort----- I don't think we could have a thread here.......

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Now that would be an interesting immersion resort----- I don't think we could have a thread here.......

Right..."Disney's illicit sex and dismemberment resort and villas"

...but I don't know if they're in the market for new college program housing right now...

 

[Lee Matthews]

Sorry I've been out of the loop on this story but am I right now that we are looking at this being far from a moderate DVC like touted for those on lower budgets but the usual cost of DVC but them needing to throw in some added benefits to justify the cost?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Sorry I've been out of the loop on this story but am I right now that we are looking at this being far from a moderate DVC like touted for those on lower budgets but the usual cost of DVC but them needing to throw in some added benefits to justify the cost?

I think you drilled the bullseye in your assessment...

I think we'll see this "cat and mouse" game of budgeting and construction with lots of behind the scenes additions and cost based subtraction as they go.

And they'll spin what ends up being left.

Very much like Saratoga...the gondola being the real enigma/x factor. But being tied to Caribbean/pop/AoA being the "y factor".

 

[skier_pete]

I think you drilled the bullseye in your assessment...

I think we'll see this "cat and mouse" game of budgeting and construction with lots of behind the scenes additions and cost based subtraction as they go.

And they'll spin what ends up being left.

Very much like Saratoga...the gondola being the real enigma/x factor. But being tied to Caribbean/pop/AoA being the "y factor".

Well, we had many arguments about this one over the last 8 months.

I continue to maintain they will NOT discount the base buy-in of DVC, it will remain $176 or more per point (likely more in another 2 years).

However, I think you will see this property have a slightly more reasonable point per night room rate than the Poly/VGF/BLT troika. Undoubtably we are looking at similar point values to Boardwalk or what Copper Creek did - which was maintain the Wilderness Lodge point scheme - with a "standard" view room and a "Theme Park" view room that rates a 25-35% point premium, with about 1/4 of the rooms getting the "Theme Park" view rate. (4,5,6 floors facing Epcot).

They will certainly have amenities above and beyond what is available at CBR, and likely allow access to CBR facilities as well.

Understand that CBR will no longer be you regular old moderate resort either - the Gondola will make it a Mod+.

 

[umichigan10]

I'd say middle class and upper middle class. And WDW certainly suffers in economic downturns so it's not divorced from the market (is that what you meant - wasn't sure).

Wrt service levels... prices not tied to that wrt hotels -- I agree. We're paying a WDW premium that allows them to charge more for the rooms than you could charge elsewhere.

But if you think about it, that's not too different from NYC. A shoebox in NYC in the right area is more expensive than a suite in a lot of places. Location, location, location.

Lord is that last part true. Went to New York for a college radio "convention" in march (tho there wasn't too much conventioning happening to be fair) and I booked the rooms at the hotel. 3-400 dollars a night for literally the honor of sleeping on top of my buddy in a twin bed. shoebox is too kind

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Lord is that last part true. Went to New York for a college radio "convention" in march (tho there wasn't too much conventioning happening to be fair) and I booked the rooms at the hotel. 3-400 dollars a night for literally the honor of sleeping on top of my buddy in a twin bed. shoebox is too kind

Ok...but the following multiple choice question sheds some light on this comparison:

What is the largest financial center in the history of this space rock?
A. Orlando
B. New York City
C. Duckburg
D. Parkersburg, Wv

??

 

[umichigan10]

Ok...but the following multiple choice question sheds some light on this comparison:

What is the largest financial center in the history of this space rock?
A. Orlando
B. New York City
C. Duckburg
D. Parkersburg, Wv

??

Duckburg obviously.

But to ask back what place is the number one vacation destination on said rock? The prices are outrageous but it's all about S&D

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Duckburg obviously.

But to ask back what place is the number one vacation destination on said rock? The prices are outrageous but it's all about S&D

What would drive pricing more...in your opinion...family vacation travel (100% out of pocket by those doing it...or a very high percentage)

...or business travel and a large amount of international business travel?

A cheap surrounding market or a ridiculously expensive one?

And don't fall into this nonsense...it's not always chapter 1 page one of a tenth grade textbook. Orlando is more perception than supply and demand...they have been crafting that for decades carefully. Funny thing about perception is some see through the screen and start asking questions.

New York's pricing is all about space limitations and time...Orlando is nothing about that...they can build 50,000 new hotel rooms within 1 mile of lake buena vista at ANY time on cheap ground...if it was "demand" and "supply" others would continue to come in and undercut the price to get their slice and be happy as clams...

 

[umichigan10]

What would drive pricing more...in your opinion...family vacation travel (100% out of pocket by those doing it...or a very high percentage)

...or business travel and a large amount of international business travel?

A cheap surrounding market or a ridiculously expensive one?

But see you're following this in a logical mindset. Fact is people are so far from logical. And I also really don't think that my point on New York is negated. It's a destination, same as the world. Different clientele sure, but people justify it in their heads in both cases, and pay it.

Survey says there's no reason why people should pay for a 400 dollar room at the grand. It's really nice, frankly nicer than the Sheraton Times Square which I stayed at on my aforementioned New York trip, but probably not with 400 dollars. People justify it with nostalgia, the monorail whatever and it's not a logical mindset when you think about it. You can get a house for less than that offsite and have way more space.

I guess my point is that the consumer is very rarely logical. Hell, look at what people pay for 50 yard line seats at Gillette stadium on a fall Sunday. It's ridiculous, but it's what people do for escapism.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

But see you're following this in a logical mindset. Fact is people are so far from logical. And I also really don't think that my point on New York is negated. It's a destination, same as the world. Different clientele sure, but people justify it in their heads in both cases, and pay it.

Survey says there's no reason why people should pay for a 400 dollar room at the grand. It's really nice, frankly nicer than the Sheraton Times Square which I stayed at on my aforementioned New York trip, but probably not with 400 dollars. People justify it with nostalgia, the monorail whatever and it's not a logical mindset when you think about it. You can get a house for less than that offsite and have way more space.

I guess my point is that the consumer is very rarely logical. Hell, look at what people pay for 50 yard line seats at Gillette stadium on a fall Sunday. It's ridiculous, but it's what people do for escapism.

So you're basically saying Disney consumers are stupid?

Ok...I yield...wish I had thought of that