IncredibleboysMom
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2006
well said..... abuse of something that helped many caused the problem. Its sad and sick what some will doPersonally I can see where Disney is coming from and where the complainants are coming from. I too have an autistic child but he's high functioning autistic, he can wait in a FP line for 10-15 minutes with other people without having a meltdown. Any longer than that and it could become and issue. I have heard a lot of parents complain bc of having to get return times and how kids don't understand going up to their favorite rides only having to leave and then come back again. Disney's answer to that is they don't have to be present to get a return time, but what about those single parents who don't have anyone to watch their child while they go to get the return time? Or what about the parents that have to be split up. I know on our trip last year my husband and I spent a good portion of the trip split up. He had the baby and I had my older son. Again my son is high functioning autistic so going up and getting a return time didn't seem to effect him. Then I can see Disney's point of view where they did put the DAS into effect and I mean they didn't have to. We live in NJ and we have Six Flags Great Adventure right by us and they don't have any sort of accommodation for kids with autism. We usually get season passes there and we will go there from RD to about lunch time when it gets crowded and then leave bc my son doesn't do well with long lines and crowds. Disney is trying to make things easier for their guests, unforunately they had a lot of people abusing the GAC which is y they changed everything around and put the DAS into effect. If crazy people didn't try to abuse the original GAC the DAS might never have been created. Anyways its just my thought on things.
Should Disney accommodate not splitting up? It sounds like the reason your family splits up has to do with the age difference, not a disability. It seems like many families are ok spending time doing different activities in the park until it is suggested that one step away for a mere moment to obtain a return time.Disney's answer to that is they don't have to be present to get a return time, but what about those single parents who don't have anyone to watch their child while they go to get the return time? Or what about the parents that have to be split up. I know on our trip last year my husband and I spent a good portion of the trip split up. He had the baby and I had my older son. Again my son is high functioning autistic so going up and getting a return time didn't seem to effect him.
What if Disney brings back the GAC but reduces the issuance of the arrow stamp to a small percentage of guests? What if guests without the arrow could queue their return times. Like you request Space, then Peter Pan, then Splash, then Pirates. Once you get scanned into Space, if the wait for Peter Pan is 40 minutes, your 30 minute timer starts. If you want to skip one, you remove it from your queue and the next timer starts. People have said that approaching the ride and not riding, only having 1 return time and the inability to change your mind are issues. Would that be acceptable? Of course, before the DAS many people said they just needed a quiet place to wait, and it was only after the unlimited and immediate access to rides was taken away that many even admitted that that's what they were getting.It's not just abuse. People genuinely needing an accommodation are increasing. With park attendance as high as it is on a daily basis, that's a hefty amount of people. It put a strain on the system.
It's it as if It was just non disabled people abusing the system. Look at the disabled people trying to game the DAS already.
Should Disney accommodate not splitting up? It sounds like the reason your family splits up has to do with the age difference, not a disability. It seems like many families are ok spending time doing different activities in the park until it is suggested that one step away for a mere moment to obtain a return time.
I also don't think that getting a return time is a hardship for every single parent to the point that return times should be done away with. Do they really not ever pass attractions without immediately riding them? In many cases you can't even see the ride vehicles or the loading area at the entrance. And I'm pretty sure this is a real issue for a fraction of the people who claim that their child will never adjust to anything other than immediate access to rides.
One of the complaint letters says that when they have a return time and it rains they are not able to use the return time. Isn't everyone with an FP or in the standby line in the same situation? I think there might be a vast difference of opinion on what is and is not a reasonable accommodation.
From reading a lot of posts, especially on Facebook that deride the DAS, I think a main part of the difference is that you went in with a plan that would work for your son. There are many people who complain about having to plan, because they've never used FP, much less FP+. And then they complain that they shouldn't have to do so much planning on their vacation or that Disney should be their escape or something like that. DAS would work for them if they were proactive about their trip like you were. There are people who have expressed that yes, the GAC was easier, but that that doesn't make the DAS impossible to use. But those people have approached it with a completely different attitude.Yes the reason our family splits up is because of the age difference and that doesn't bother me at all I am expressing what I have heard from other parents. Personally the DAS works great for us. We never used the GAC so I can't really compare the 2. All I know is the DAS worked great for our trip last year but I am an obsessive over planner. I have to be with my son. I have to know how I am going to handle certain things to prevent meltdowns. I researched everything possible before we went on our trip last year and it worked wonderfully. The DAS really helped my son on our last trip and honestly out of the whole week we only had 1 or 2 meltdowns and they had nothing to do with the rides, lol.
From reading a lot of posts, especially on Facebook that deride the DAS, I think a main part of the difference is that you went in with a plan that would work for your son. There are many people who complain about having to plan, because they've never used FP, much less FP+. And then they complain that they shouldn't have to do so much planning on their vacation or that Disney should be their escape or something like that. DAS would work for them if they were proactive about their trip like you were. There are people who have expressed that yes, the GAC was easier, but that that doesn't make the DAS impossible to use. But those people have approached it with a completely different attitude.
What if Disney brings back the GAC but reduces the issuance of the arrow stamp to a small percentage of guests? What if guests without the arrow could queue their return times. Like you request Space, then Peter Pan, then Splash, then Pirates. Once you get scanned into Space, if the wait for Peter Pan is 40 minutes, your 30 minute timer starts. If you want to skip one, you remove it from your queue and the next timer starts. People have said that approaching the ride and not riding, only having 1 return time and the inability to change your mind are issues. Would that be acceptable? Of course, before the DAS many people said they just needed a quiet place to wait, and it was only after the unlimited and immediate access to rides was taken away that many even admitted that that's what they were getting.
I don't really know what this is? They apparently have no legal authority, so what's the point of this?
My understanding is that this is an appointed board that basically reviews the lawsuit as presented (on paper) and determines if there is merit for it to continue on to trial. This is not a final ruling in the matter. It's essentially a ruling indicating it should proceed to trial.
I agree.It's not just abuse. People genuinely needing an accommodation are increasing. With park attendance as high as it is on a daily basis, that's a hefty amount of people. It put a strain on the system........
Agree.......
It's it as if It was just non disabled people abusing the system. Look at the disabled people trying to game the DAS already.
The problem with that is the arrow stamp for a long time was a very small number of guests, and the green arrow (actually meant for guests on WISH trips) were an even smaller number.What if Disney brings back the GAC but reduces the issuance of the arrow stamp to a small percentage of guests? What if guests without the arrow could queue their return times. Like you request Space, then Peter Pan, then Splash, then Pirates. Once you get scanned into Space, if the wait for Peter Pan is 40 minutes, your 30 minute timer starts. If you want to skip one, you remove it from your queue and the next timer starts. People have said that approaching the ride and not riding, only having 1 return time and the inability to change your mind are issues. Would that be acceptable? Of course, before the DAS many people said they just needed a quiet place to wait, and it was only after the unlimited and immediate access to rides was taken away that many even admitted that that's what they were getting.
My understanding is the same, except that the ruling indicates it could proceed to trial. So, it's basically a clearinghouse, that you have to pass before even filing a lawsuit.My understanding is that this is an appointed board that basically reviews the lawsuit as presented (on paper) and determines if there is merit for it to continue on to trial. This is not a final ruling in the matter. It's essentially a ruling indicating it should proceed to trial.
Wasn't the other case moved from the CA federal district court to the FL federal district court? These new letters are for a FL state case, not federal.But weren't they already in the process of that since it was ruled to come to Florida, and ruled that everyone needed to be presented separately?
I'm sure Disney knew that they would never deter the people who will flat out lie and say they have a reason the avoid the queue, even if they only perceive a slight advantage. Unfortunately 10 minutes off an 80 minute wait time or an immediate "4th FP" before you've used your 3 FP+ are plenty of incentive for someone gaming the system. I'm not sure they realized how many people who need accommodations would go even further to gain even more advantages.DAS was only out for a few weeks when people with disabilities were posting on Facebook and their blogs how to get "extra" DAS times, so they could continue to make it work like GAC. Some of the ways they posted were getting more than one DAS with their whole party on it (some I read rationalized that even though they had only one person with a disability, they 'deserved' it). People also suggested writing in their own DAS Return Times; since they were handwritten, they could get away with it.
Disney's response was to provide stamps for use by CMs at attractions so the times could not be forged.
The stamps ended up missing (mostly at Disneyland), leading Disney to start linking DAS to park tickets at DL.
So, even though the news stories mention abuse by people who were not disabled, the bigger parts were probably the increased number of people with disabilities and (a smaller, but still significant part) the actions of people with disabilities who tried to get around GAC and DAS.
The problem with that is the arrow stamp for a long time was a very small number of guests, and the green arrow (actually meant for guests on WISH trips) were an even smaller number.
As time went on, people heard about GAC, but also heard about the 'arrow cards' - mostly on posts on the Internet.
That became what people thought GAC was, even though at one point, most GAC cards had different stamps. People insisted on those stamps, even if they did not need that level of access, because that was the 'best' GAC.
I'm pretty sure the same thing would happen if they re-introduced a version of the arrow GAC.
Wasn't the other case moved from the CA federal district court to the FL federal district court? These new letters are for a FL state case, not federal.
What I'm saying is that if it comes back for anyone, just like the old arrow stamp, it may start out rare, but it won't stay rare.Wasn't the other case moved from the CA federal district court to the FL federal district court? These new letters are for a FL state case, not federal.
I'm sure Disney knew that they would never deter the people who will flat out lie and say they have a reason the avoid the queue, even if they only perceive a slight advantage. Unfortunately 10 minutes off an 80 minute wait time or an immediate "4th FP" before you've used your 3 FP+ are plenty of incentive for someone gaming the system. I'm not sure they realized how many people who need accommodations would go even further to gain even more advantages.
What I meant about the GAC is that so many people say they want it back. What if it came back but some of the people who previously had the arrow stamp now couldn't get it, but otherwise got an accommodation that didn't involve the same high level perk. Many people claimed that they needed a quiet place to wait or offered to wait and join the line when their family reaches the front (which isn't logistically possible a lot of the time) but then happily accepted the arrow stamp when it was offered. Now they're saying that the issues with DAS include obtaining the return time at the ride, having to use a return time before getting another one, and not being able to change their mind. If Disney could solve those complaints and they still had to wait without immediate back to back access to rides, do you think that would work? Probably not for the plaintiffs in the lawsuit.
And then there's the whole issue of the DAS becoming unsustainable because booking return times ahead and having multiple return times is something that will attract abuse.