Disabled Parking - Cheaters?

[Enna]

Can I ask a question about handicap bathroom stalls? I don't mean this to be rude at all, I really just wonder. Is it maybe a little bit different. I mean, I sometimes have a stroller with me and if a mom can't fit the stroller in the stall is she supposed to hold her baby when she is in the potty or is it o.k. to use the handicap? I guess to me it seems a little bit different to have to wait for a stall for a minute than to be trapped out of your car and not know when the person is returning. If there is a line and a handicap stall is open isn't it o.k. to use it? Obviously if a handicap person comes in they would be the next in line for it. It doesn't seem unreasonable to use the stall if it is empty. Am I wrong?

Unfortunately, in my area the handicapped stall is used as just another stall in the bathroom lineup. There's no blue placard or Guest Assistance Card needed. Just last weekend, I had to wait behind about a DOZEN cheerleaders and their chaperones and couldn't even get into the stall because a teen was changing her clothes. I was literally in tears waiting for that stall to open, as I had just had a fall and was in pain and then REALLY had to go because I landed on the wet ground with a full bladder. I have no choice BUT to use the accessible stall, so it bugs me when someone with options takes my access.

What could I say? Nothing I could say would change the situation that the stall was in use by an able-bodied person.

Even in the local Walmart, I find the handicapped stall occupied by employees changing before or after their shift, usually on their cell phone.

In fact, I'm hard pressed to think of a time in recent memory when I was able to have immediate access to the handicapped stall.

Being a mom of young'uns myself, and having had a few years in the double-stroller brigade, I can say that I personally would not have ANY problem with you using the stroller. Sometimes your only other option is to park the stroller outside of the stall and wake a sleeping baby, or wrangle a toddler while you try to tend to personal needs. If the larger stall helps you, then I have no issues with you using it, even though I might have to wait. However, I also think you'd probably be wise enough to notice that there was someone waiting for that particular stall, unlike my examples above, where the person in the stall just didn't seem to care.

Of course, other people's opinions may vary...I can only speak for myself.

 

[SueM in MN]

I have no choice BUT to use the accessible stall, so it bugs me when someone with options takes my access.

That's what I say too.
The handicapped toilet stall isn't like a handicapped parking stall. Other people can use it if it's vacant, but I always hope people who have other options will look at them and choose one of the other options.

 

[SueM in MN]

TMy bigest problem is people who place thier carts in the lined off area in the handicapped parking. By doing this you've basically prevented anyone in a wheelchair from parking there. We can't move the cart till we get out of the car/van and we can't get out of the car/van until the cart is moved.

From your description you didn't do this. But maybe they were concerned that leaving the cart where you did would prevent someone from parking in the space.

But even with the above the person confronting you was out of line.

Because my DD is the disabled one and I am not, I can get out and move the carts, so I do collect the carts I find and put them away. I assume that some of the carts are there because the person who used it/them were not able to return it themselves.

I have seen people who are not parked in the handicapped spots abandon their carts there. I hate it when people do that because it is very inconsiderate.

And, your story is a very good reminder, mouse4ever.

 

[mouse4ever]

What a great story. Mind sharing how someone might donate to that fund?

That information for some reason was not included in the article about Lisa but I know the money is going to the Ronald McDonald House in Madison WI. Information is:

Contact People:

Anna Healy, House Director, (608)232-4660,
Front Desk, 608-232-4660


Address:
2716 Marshall Court
Madison, WI 53705

I tried to find the article online but could only find this weeks copy of the newspaper, no back copies.

 

[Nanajo1]

I had to stop driving myself to my MD's office and to the hosp because I got blocked in one too many times. I lost some independence because someone else didn't know the rules or didn't care. I just received my renewal hangtag. It came with very specific instructions on who could and when to use the hang tag. It stated that parking in the hash marks was illegal. I'm going to make copies and leave them on windshields of offenders. It also stated the HP person must be exiting the car in order for it to be parked in the HP space.

 

[SueM in MN]

I'm going to make copies and leave them on windshields of offenders. It also stated the HP person must be exiting the car in order for it to be parked in the HP space.

That'sw a very good idea. I have sometimes hand written a note, but leaving the actual printed law information is MUCH better.

 

[Kristen8]

Hello,

About 12 years ago a bunch of my girlfriends from high school and I went shopping at the local mall. One of my friends had lupus and was unable to walk for very long without having to sit and rest. The whole purpose of going to the mall was to get her out to enjoy herself even though we knew she would spend most of the time sitting on a bench, in a restaurant, or in the movie theater. We took her car (a red Camaro) to the mall so that she could park in the hc space and not have to walk that far. When we got out of the car (4 girls in their early 20's who looked perfectly healthy) an older woman came out of the mall and laid into us about how she had to park at the back of the parking lot and a group of "young kids" were able to park in the hc space. I felt horrible but my friend completely ignored the woman. When we got in the mall I asked if she was alright and she said it was fine. I figured she forgot about it because she never spoke of it again. Lisa died about a year later from complications with lupus at the ripe old age of 26. I had thought about that woman who came out of the mall often wondering if she was still enjoying the long life that she got to live in comparison to my friend and if she realized how lucky she was to be able to walk to the back of the parking lot. Last month Lisa's parents set up a fund in her name for the Ronald McDonald house and in the interview Lisa's mom mentioned the incident at the mall years ago. Here I thought Lisa was fine with what happened and forgotten all about it when in actuallity it bothered her enough that part of the fund her parents are setting up is going toward educating people on the fact that not all disabilities are visible. I have NEVER again judged anyone who parks in a hc space and has a sticker. If they are there illegally they are the one's who have to live with themselves, who am I to judge?

Thanks for this moving story. I'm very sensitive about this issue about disabled parking placards right now. I'm a young woman who looks just fine on the outside. But I had some dental work done three years ago that injured the nerves in my mouth and face. I've been left with excruciating pain across both sides of my face, burning and intense with electric shocks that are triggered by breezes and hot sun and cold. For two years, I lost work and normal life but am now getting some functioning back. It was hard for me to apply for the disabled placard, and I feel awkward when I use it. But it enables me to park near enough to the office to work at all. I always wonder if people are thinking critically when they see me walking normally to and from the car, but they have no idea what I am suffering.

I hope people will enlarge their sense of compassion and not judge by the appearance of a situation.

 

[LilyWDW]

On the bathroom stall issue:

I am an Interior Design student and we have had to do a ton of work on ADA regulation ( )when it comes to commercial/residential design, including bathrooms. Sad to say, while there are rules on the number of stalls required for occupancy load of a building and the size of said stalls, there is no rule that I can recall about who can and can not use them. The best you can do is explain to people about how you are limited to that one stall while they have the ability to use the other 4+.

I have always be taught to allow a handicapped person ahead of me if it is that stall that becomes open. To me, it is common sense. Now, I do admit that if there is no line but only that one stall open, I will make use of it. However, if I need to use one to change in (aka it will take more then a moment) or I have a choice of stalls, I will use a normal stall. I have been the one in line behind someone in a WC who is waiting for the handicapped stall and have spoken up when someone else tries to take that stall ... Having learned to much about ADA regs, I hate to see people abuse such things.

 

[Torontogal]

Firstly, people should be really careful when they suspect someone is "cheating." I have had a number of people screaming at me because they suspected I was cheating. I have been called several names in front of my parents and children. We have a disabled tag on our van and we only park in a disabled spot when we are with my DISABLED father in law (with Parkinson's) who was also hit by a drunk driver in the 1980's (and now walks with a cane). People have screamed at me for parking in such spots - they assume I am able bodied - why am I parking there? People do not realize that the disabled permits are also for disabled passengers as well - NOT DRIVERS ONLY. I really hope that people who have a habit of mouthing off to others be fully aware of the situation. For example, some of us leave our senior parents at the store and later pick them up. We park in those spots as we are PICKING up parents who cannot walk a long distance. I am really tired of people who assume that everyone is a cheater. Once again, I will stress that I have never parked in such a spot if my in-laws are not with me. I am just tired of having to defend myself and say, "look there is my father in law - with is cane ---"

 

[videogal1]

Thanks for this moving story. I'm very sensitive about this issue about disabled parking placards right now. I'm a young woman who looks just fine on the outside. But I had some dental work done three years ago that injured the nerves in my mouth and face. I've been left with excruciating pain across both sides of my face, burning and intense with electric shocks that are triggered by breezes and hot sun and cold. For two years, I lost work and normal life but am now getting some functioning back. It was hard for me to apply for the disabled placard, and I feel awkward when I use it. But it enables me to park near enough to the office to work at all. I always wonder if people are thinking critically when they see me walking normally to and from the car, but they have no idea what I am suffering.

I hope people will enlarge their sense of compassion and not judge by the appearance of a situation.

Several years ago a fellow employee at a Fortune 500 company started parking in the wheelchair access parking spaces at work. As there were few spaces and many employees I asked the Security Department how it was that an employee with lower arm amputation was able to park in a handicapped parking space, legally, and logically, reserved for use by those who were MOBILITY impaired. After a review of the law they asked him to surrender his placard and reserve use of the handicapped spaces for those who were legally entitled to use them.
MS does not meet the standard of disability required by the ADA, nor does Lupus, facial pain, and on and on. But they may meet local legal standards. Do you know the law under which you are classed as "disabled"?.

It is unfair that some are required to lead lives beset by pain, agony, and illness but, there is a legal standard that defines disability in this country and simply finding a doctor, whether through empathy or ignorance, who will issue a MOBILITY disability parking permit to someone without a MOBILITY-based disability, as defined by the ADA, or local laws, thereby committing fraud, does not mean that someone is legally entitled to use it.
Yes, people are obnoxious and rude and, by my rules of the road it is perfectly reasonable to be rude right back. You must consider your position in court, however, if you do not meet ADA or local disability standards because someone like me, who IS mobility impaired will not have much sympathy for a non-mobility based condition that someone thinks entitles them to a parking space reserved for those who have mobility-based disabilities.

 

[SueM in MN]

Firstly, people should be really careful when they suspect someone is "cheating." I have had a number of people screaming at me because they suspected I was cheating. I have been called several names in front of my parents and children. We have a disabled tag on our van and we only park in a disabled spot when we are with my DISABLED father in law (with Parkinson's) who was also hit by a drunk driver in the 1980's (and now walks with a cane). People have screamed at me for parking in such spots - they assume I am able bodied - why am I parking there? People do not realize that the disabled permits are also for disabled passengers as well - NOT DRIVERS ONLY. I really hope that people who have a habit of mouthing off to others be fully aware of the situation. For example, some of us leave our senior parents at the store and later pick them up. We park in those spots as we are PICKING up parents who cannot walk a long distance. I am really tired of people who assume that everyone is a cheater. Once again, I will stress that I have never parked in such a spot if my in-laws are not with me. I am just tired of having to defend myself and say, "look there is my father in law - with is cane ---"

I have been in your situation; where I parked in the handicapped spot because I was picking up or dropping off my DD. She obviously was not with me when I arrived there, but will be when I leave and could not get into the van unless I parked there. From what I have been told at the Department of Motor Vehicles in my state, that is an appropriate use of the permit.

I don't want to give the impression that I have ever (or would ever) "mouthed off" to anyone. The only times I have ever left a note or said anything was in these 2 circumstances:
1) Someone was parked in the crosshatched area, which is illegal and prevents people from using the spot next to the crossed hatched area. When I have left a note, it was very polite (I am in Minnesota, after all); basically saying, "You may not be aware that you are parked in the access spot for a handicapped spot. When you park there, it may not be possible for the person parked in the handicapped spot to get in or out of their vehicle. If I was a police officer, this would be a $200 ticket rather than a note."

2) Someone was parked in the handicapped spot without a permit/license plate showing. I am polite when I say it - on the order of "Were you aware that you are parked in a handicapped spot and don't have a handicapped permit showing?" In several cases, I have gotten thanks from people who had forgotten to put out their permit.
In one case, I got sworn at by a woman who informed me that she had a "child with a heart condition and had a perfect right to park there". I told her that I had noticed she didn't have a permit showing and that I wanted to warn her that I had already called the police because someone had illegally parked in a way that blocked me in. She went in the store without putting up a permit. She got a ticket.

 

[faeflora]

Recently I had a disabled parking cheater issue.
I was moving out of my dorm room and outside of the dorm there is one handicap space. Well, moveout day is always a nightmare with cars trying to park anywhere just to get all the room stuff crammed into the car. So as I was turning into the parking are a girl and her father zipped into the parking space. I thought ok maybe that have a placard, so I rolled up checked it out and well no they did not have a placard.
Fortunately the security guards were driving by and I explained my situation and they requested that the father move the car so I could park to unload my dorm.
The father and daughter were very embarassed but I had to think, what kind of model are you being for your daughter by taking a clearly marked handicap parking space?
To rub it in for the two cheaters the security guard then proceeded to help me load my car.

 

[pugdog]

When I went to the Uof MN on move in/out day they will and did give tickets if you parked there with out a sticker.

 

[TumFamily]

It is very important to realize that not everyone has a VISIBLE handicapp. I have two daugthers with Cystic Fibrosis. They look beautiful and to the human eye you would have no idea that anything is wrong with them.

I have been given the evil eye on many occasions and yelled at too. But, you cannot see their IV lines or the feeding tube underneath my younger daughters shirt. They tire very easily and perspire to the point of rapidly fainting.

So, yes they are entitled to the spot but you would be surprised how many people harrass us over it. I do not feel that I have to justify my parking there either and noone else should have to either. If you have been issued the sticker, than it is your right to use it and you do not have to explain anything to anybody. Deb

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

There was just an expose on this subject on the news. A man in a scooter has made it his crusade to stop people from illegally parking in designated spots. Some of those he stopped were embarrassed, but most were pretty rude and defensive. I was surprised. He takes pictures of the vehicles as well as the police officers who saw it and didn't ticket it. They were all inducted into the "Hall of Shame".

I know some people have invisible disabilities, but there's no such thing as an invisible placard/decal/license plate, so I don't know how they could have defended parking there.

The worst place I have faced this problem is at the beach, at the Jersey shore. Families constantly use it for loading and unloading chairs, toys, etc. They think 5 or 10 minutes is ok when it's not. Especially not when it is one after another trying to use it that way. With my mother, we would drive around 10 or 15 times before we could actually get into a spot.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I noticed a poster upthread titled their post "Handicapped sticker".
It's important to note (unfortunately, not among us - and the people who DO need to know probably aren't reading this thread) that there is a HUGE difference between a handicapped plate/placard, and a handicapped sticker. The latter has absolutely NO standing when it comes to parking. Only a DMV/RMV-issued handicapped license plate or hangtag (or, regrettably still at least here in Massachusetts, the old dashboard placards) legally allow the eligible person to use a handicapped parking space.

 

[Nanajo1]

.
MS does not meet the standard of disability required by the ADA, nor does Lupus, facial pain, and on and on. But they may meet local legal standards. Do you know the law under which you are classed as "disabled"?.

I believe it is not the diagnosis but the actual disability. The application for the h/p parking asked how far could the applicant walk,etc not only the diagnosis.
ADA is determine by how ADLs are affective not necessarily by diagnosis.

 

[SueM in MN]

I believe it is not the diagnosis but the actual disability. The application for the h/p parking asked how far could the applicant walk,etc not only the diagnosis.
ADA is determine by how ADLs are affective not necessarily by diagnosis.

The ADA talks about needs for accomidation (since 2 people could have the same diagnosis, but not the same needs for accomidation).

 

[BroganMc]

Can I ask a question about handicap bathroom stalls? I don't mean this to be rude at all, I really just wonder. Is it maybe a little bit different. I mean, I sometimes have a stroller with me and if a mom can't fit the stroller in the stall is she supposed to hold her baby when she is in the potty or is it o.k. to use the handicap? I guess to me it seems a little bit different to have to wait for a stall for a minute than to be trapped out of your car and not know when the person is returning. If there is a line and a handicap stall is open isn't it o.k. to use it? Obviously if a handicap person comes in they would be the next in line for it. It doesn't seem unreasonable to use the stall if it is empty. Am I wrong?

That's a tricky question.

My patience and understanding for "mom use" of the stalls depends on what end of my bathroom adventure I'm on. Either I find a bathroom free or else I'm left waiting for a mom and their child, usually it is a toddler or older. And if there's a sink in the bathroom, I'm waiting twice as long.

Waiting to go is never pleasant and sometimes an iffy proposition. I've had an accident or two, especially in cold weather when it took more time to unbundle all my clothing with frozen fingers. So my patience tends to wear thin there, especially if it is two pairs of feet who are clearly old enough to use separate stalls.

I can see a parent's need to take their stroller inside with young baby. In that case, I think I'd rather risk the accident than a baby unattended or waking and screaming on mom's knee. All I'd ask is that the mom be quick about it. Chances are that empty stall will have someone eagerly waiting outside in a few minutes.

All in all, I think I get more annoyed at not being able to use a bathroom than not being able to park close. Getting blocked out of my van is of the same rank but that happens so rarely. Not being able to use the restroom happens multiple times in a day. Course then there are those awful gigantic toilet paper rolls under the grab bars and completely inaccessible unless one reaches up and under from the floor. How disappointing to find a free bathroom but not be able to use any paper.

 

[bsmcneil]

it's interesting to read this thread as my doctor has several times asked me if i wanted a placard and i've said no because most people would see me, a 23 year old male not in a wheelchair, and assume i was misusing it. otoh, i really do need it. similarly, i won't use a wheelchair at WDW when i go although when i come back i likely won't be able to move for 2-3 days. i dunno how to get past the problems of society assuming people are able-bodied, but i know i haven't yet and likely wont' for some time.