Disabled Parking - Cheaters?

[Andrew Bichard]

The guy in the van had parked his van on an angle taking up 2 places, there was a sign on his van door that said wheelchair ramp

A bit 'Off Topic'...

Last summer I am at a town on the coast here in the UK. I finish my business early and decide to ride my wheelchair along the boardwalk. Because it is mid-week, and the school vacations are over, the parking lot is empty except for a couple of cars.

I drive a ramp-van. To avoid getting blocked in, I park way up the back of the parking lot, but diagonally across two spaces so no-one can fit in next to me, and so I can I can unfold my side ramp. I display my 'blue badge' (UK hang tag equivalent)

I come back two hours later to find I have a ticket for "failure to park within the designated space".

OK, fair enough, but it's off season and I am one of only four cars in a parking lot big enough for two or three hundred. I explained the circumstances and appealed the ticket. After sending in a photocopy of my badge, they cancelled the ticket. ---- I am lucky I didn't get a second ticket for 'parking in a designated disabled parking space' with no blue badge displayed, whilst I was photocopying it.

Andrew

 

[CanadianGuy]

The ADA requires all car rental companies to offer hand controls as a no-cost option. If your friend can transfer to the drivers seat easily, he will have no problem.

A more expensive option are companies like Rainbow Wheels www.rainbowwheels.com

They rent out fully adapted ramp and lift vans. You can ride right into the van in your chair. The one I rented had a powered drivers seat that slid back to mid van to make transfer easier.

Andrew

That's AWESOME. He can self transfer from chair to vehicle. He does that now in his own vehicle. He's gonna be thrilled thanks for the info!

J

 

[Andrew Bichard]

He can self transfer from chair to vehicle. He does that now in his own vehicle. He's gonna be thrilled thanks for the info!

J

I suggest that he books the adapted vehicle in advance. They will want to know if he uses hand controls with his right or left hand so they can fit the controls in advance. One trip they gave me an upgrade because they had an adapted vehicle returned earlier that day and didn't want to strip out the hand controls & fit them into the vehicle I had booked.

Andrew

 

[BillSears]

I suggest that he books the adapted vehicle in advance. They will want to know if he uses hand controls with his right or left hand so they can fit the controls in advance. One trip they gave me an upgrade because they had an adapted vehicle returned earlier that day and didn't want to strip out the hand controls & fit them into the vehicle I had booked.

Andrew

Be careful of the upgrades. I transfer in and out of the car and slide my folded up wheelchair into the back seat. Of course this only works with a 2 door car. On my last trip they were "nice" enough to upgrade me to a big 4 door car even though I told them I needed the 2 door car. It took them about an hour to swap the hand controls back over to the car I needed.

 

[Lachesis00]

I too drive a car, but need to open the door all the way as I can not bend my legs far enough if the door is not opened all the way. I literally can not get of the car.

"Luckily" I do look disabled. I have been ripped a new one before by some guy with an older mother who was not even with them. Until I struggled to get out of my car... he then realized, I do indeed need to park there.

My husband will ONLY park in the handicapped spots if I am with him or if he is picking me up/dropping me off. He never EVER has abused the privilege. I think he needs authorization, his asthma is terrible, he is wheezing, I worry he won't even make it to the car when we do park in the spots close up. He refuses too.

Some days I see people who you KNOW do not need to park in those spots, I mean come on... especially those with out permits of *some* kind. I want to take a black sharpie and write all over their windows... I never have but the thought has passed my mind more then once. Childish, yes. If you really are disabled, you can go get a permit or license plate.

I do not use a lift. I drive a car. I park in the van accessible spots a lot because in some places they are the only handicapped spots that have lines on one side. I HAVE to have room to get my car door open all the way so I can unload my wheelchair. If I park in a regular handicapped spot and someone parks too close to me, I cannot get into my car.

So don't assume every car that is parked in a van accessible spot is an inconsiderate person.

 

[BillSears]

Since we've got this nice little thread here labeled. Disabled Parking - Cheaters? I thought I would vent abit.

I was shopping today and heading out of the store when I saw this woman park in a handicapped spot, hop out of her car and head into Starbucks. Thinking of this thread I didn't confront here or anything even though she was wearing 3 inch gold lamae(sp) stilletos and seemed fine. I just assumed she had a valid unseen disability. Of course once I got closer to her car I saw no placard or tag and it was obvious that she just parked there to save herself the extra 4 spaces of walking since there was a normal spot 4 spaces down from the one she parked in.

 

[travelitis]

I don't want to sound like I'm defending cheaters, but I maintain that there is no way to know if someone is cheating unless you are personally acquainted with them. Just because you see a car without a placard in a handicapped spot doesn't mean that person doesn't need that spot. It could mean that they are under duress and aren't using common sense. I remember when I went shopping with my best friend and her mom. Having a disability in the family was new, traumatic, and happened fast for them. One day all was well, and the next their daughter was fighting cancer and needed a leg amputated. The policeman didn't care that there was a child who was very sick with cancer and chemo and who'd lost her leg that summer. He didn't change the ticket to a warning and explain the law to her distraught mother. No, the ticket stood, even though Gretchen couldn't. There's the letter of the law, and there's the spirit of the law, and how we react to what we perceive as a violation says as much about us as it does about the ones we judge.

JenJen, I understand about fibro, having it myself to the point I'm not always able to drive. My teen son has JA and fibro, so both of us will pay if we don't budget our energy properly. I've adjusted to fibro, gotten through a tough couple of years and now have it under control, but my son's JA requires light chemo. I understand you need your placard some of the time, which is how it is with us. I've faced the same dilemna. My guideline is that if I feel guilty about taking a handicapped spot, then I probably don't need it enough and should find an alternative. For example: If I intend to walk around Walmart shopping, then I can walk from the furthest parking spot in the lot. If I'm barely able to walk in there to purchase 1 thing, and every step counts, then I can park in a disabled spot with a clear conscience. If disabled spots are scarce I look for alternatives out of concern for others who have it worse. You sound like you're also concerned for others. I wouldn't presume to judge your choice.

 

[travelitis]

Bill,

I'm in no way saying that the woman you saw compares with my friend. No placard, brisk walk, high heals all make it very hard to believe there's even a hidden disability. I wasn't responding to your post. Let's hope she was so focussed on her errand that she didn't notice it was a disabled spot rather than she didn't care.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don't want to sound like I'm defending cheaters, but I maintain that there is no way to know if someone is cheating unless you are personally acquainted with them. Just because you see a car without a placard in a handicapped spot doesn't mean that person doesn't need that spot.

Here's the thing. It doesn't matter if a person "needs" to park in a designated handicapped parking space - without a RMV/DMV-issued placard or license plate, they legally can NOT park there.

I remember when I went shopping with my best friend and her mom. Having a disability in the family was new, traumatic, and happened fast for them. One day all was well, and the next their daughter was fighting cancer and needed a leg amputated. The policeman didn't care that there was a child who was very sick with cancer and chemo and who'd lost her leg that summer. He didn't change the ticket to a warning and explain the law to her distraught mother. No, the ticket stood, even though Gretchen couldn't.

It's not a perceived violation, it's plain and simple a violation. The law is the law. Some other options might have been to drop off the child and a person near the entrance of wherever they were shopping while the driver parked then walked to the store to meet them, and then reverse the procedure on exiting; or to have contacted the local DMV on realizing that they would be transporting a handicapped person and determining, then following, the requirements for obtaining legitimate authorization (aka plate/placard) for parking in a designated handicapped spot. The spaces ARE marked to the effect that anyone parking there without such proof is subject to having their vehicle towed, never mind ticketed.

 

[maroon5gurl88]

Being in a wheelchair I see a TON of abuse of placards. The biggest offenders I see are people who have disabilities but use it for themselves, without the handicapped person in the car, and people who use it then RUN inside somewhere, kinda disproving the whole handicapped thing. I've had many violators though who just park in the space, with no plaque at all and PEOPLE WHO KNOW THEM STOP AND TALK TO THEM!

 

[mytwotinks]

Sorry.
When I wrote I was thinking of Target, where I go most and have problems most.
They have crosshatched loading areas beside each handicapped parking spot, and you would have space (plus space left over) to open your door in the regular handicapped spots at the Targets close to us.
Their van accessible spots have a crosshatched spot almost as wide as a regular parking spot next to it.

Edited to add:
I should have added a "disclamer" in my first post sort of similar to what I usually put when the subject of handicapped stalls in bathrooms come up; that some people are using them by choice and some by necessity and that I hope those who can choose will choose to leave the van accessible handicapped spots for those who don't have a choice. Most people I see using them are not using a wheelchair or a walker, so they could fit in a regular handicapped spot easily. Most people are just not aware that there are different size of access spaces.

Also, the regular handicapped spots are supposed to have a 5 foot wide access spot next to them, which should be wide enough for a car door to fully open without needing to use the van accessible space (which should have an 8 foot wide access space). Some of the spaces are supposed to be on the passenger size and some on the driver side like this:
ADA parking requirements (that is a non-official summary page, but it includes links to the actual ADA site - the info is much harder to find on the actual site).
Anyway, those are the minimum requirements. Minnesota must be pretty good about making places follow them because what is listed there, is pretty much what I find. Some states probably aren't and some places might think all that's involved in providing handicapped parking is putting a sign on one of their regular spots.
If it's not possible to park in a regular handicapped spot and fully open the door, it sounds like the stalls probably do not meet the minimum requirement. Or, they may have all the access spaces on one side - some should be on the passenger side and some should be on the driver side, since the person who needs the extra space may be on either side. If they don't meet the minimum requirements, the place can be forced to change them or be fined.

Can I ask a question about handicap bathroom stalls? I don't mean this to be rude at all, I really just wonder. Is it maybe a little bit different. I mean, I sometimes have a stroller with me and if a mom can't fit the stroller in the stall is she supposed to hold her baby when she is in the potty or is it o.k. to use the handicap? I guess to me it seems a little bit different to have to wait for a stall for a minute than to be trapped out of your car and not know when the person is returning. If there is a line and a handicap stall is open isn't it o.k. to use it? Obviously if a handicap person comes in they would be the next in line for it. It doesn't seem unreasonable to use the stall if it is empty. Am I wrong?

 

[Tinker*Shell*Bell]

I am from a family of people with different disabilities, some w/c and some monility and some developmental issues...so save the flames, but....

You have no right to talk about people cheating on parking unless
A- you know them and know for a fact there is no disability or
B-they have no card/plate/hangtag on their car

not everyone who is handicapped needs a wheelchair and not everyone who "looks" fine (how subjective is that!) really is fine.

Maybe I have a disability but not a wc---

Judge not lest ye be judged...

 

[LindsayDunn228]

I am from a family of people with different disabilities, some w/c and some monility and some developmental issues...so save the flames, but....

You have no right to talk about people cheating on parking unless
A- you know them and know for a fact there is no disability or
B-they have no card/plate/hangtag on their car

not everyone who is handicapped needs a wheelchair and not everyone who "looks" fine (how subjective is that!) really is fine.

Maybe I have a disability but not a wc---

Judge not lest ye be judged...

I don't think many of us would actually confront someone we thought was cheating. We're just venting our thoughts here, is that ok?

 

[Tinker*Shell*Bell]

I don't think many of us would actually confront someone we thought was cheating. We're just venting our thoughts here, is that ok?

Sure it's ok to vent, but (this is true) my dad has been confronted for using a hc space (with hc vet plates) because he does not "look" disabled. The person had the audacity to ask what his hc was....um.....none of their damn business....
fwiw- he has an aortic valve replacement, has had multiple strokes, blood clots and takes meds that make him intolerant to high temps. He only parks hc in the summer when it is dangerous for him to be outside for longer than a minute or two. He does not want to park in a hc spot, but sometimes he has to.
And he will quickly exit the car and move rapidly to the store, it is safer for him to get into the a/c.

I agree with some of the ranting about people who should not park there but do anyway ...yet at the same time I think of my dad who looks fine but really is not.

 

[Biscuitsmom31]

DH got a ticket for parking in a disabled spot last week. His disabled tag fell down into the floorboard and he was unable to reach it so he parked there anyway. He figured the wheelchair lift and wheelchair stickers all over the van would clue people in that he needed to park there. He thought wrong.

 

[dj2]

my dad has been confronted for using a hc space (with hc vet plates) because he does not "look" disabled.

i was confronted once, too, over a slightly different issue. it was very upsetting. background info--i have MS, with difficulty walking, not too bad after sitting awhile, but gets bad upon exertion. (sadly it's really been getting worse of late....) i can still drive fine.

i had parked in a legitimate regular spot, next to a hc spot, trying to find the closest spot i could get yet avoiding the hc spots if at all possible. this was at a grocery. walking up and down the aisles was too much for me that day, and i definitely needed to lean on the shopping cart like a walker. when i got back to my car, i just couldn't face the thought of returning the cart to the cart stall, and worse yet, walking back to my car without it. so i left it out of the way near the front of my car. well, the people in the hc spot next to me came back a moment later, and a passenger got out and started verbally attacking me for not returning the cart. i showed her my hang tag, and started to explain that it was too hard today, when she walked over to me and pushed me on my left shoulder and said in a mocking voice that she'd just do it for me if it was too much trouble. all i could say to her was that she was just not a nice person.

i guess i shouldn't have gone into the store if i couldn't make it out w/o following all the rules, and i was wrong for not returning the cart. i don't really do much shopping anymore anyway--dh handles it for us. but i think this lady was wrong, too. i wonder what's happened in her life to make the not returning of the cart such a big issue for her that she'd attack me like that. and i hope that i never let my anger overrule my compassion, the way she did on that day.

 

[BillSears]

i wonder what's happened in her life to make the not returning of the cart such a big issue for her that she'd attack me like that. and i hope that i never let my anger overrule my compassion, the way she did on that day.

There have been many threads concerning returning shopping carts over on the community board. They get pretty heated and eveyone has an opinion.

My bigest problem is people who place thier carts in the lined off area in the handicapped parking. By doing this you've basically prevented anyone in a wheelchair from parking there. We can't move the cart till we get out of the car/van and we can't get out of the car/van until the cart is moved.

From your description you didn't do this. But maybe they were concerned that leaving the cart where you did would prevent someone from parking in the space.

But even with the above the person confronting you was out of line.

 

[phorsenuf]

I have a hang tag here in NH. Last time I renewed my license I noticed a little wheelchair symbol on it (you know, that universal handicap symbol).
I thought that was a great idea!

 

[mouse4ever]

Hello,

I have never posted on this board before but this thread caught my attention.

About 12 years ago a bunch of my girlfriends from high school and I went shopping at the local mall. One of my friends had lupus and was unable to walk for very long without having to sit and rest. The whole purpose of going to the mall was to get her out to enjoy herself even though we knew she would spend most of the time sitting on a bench, in a restaurant, or in the movie theater. We took her car (a red Camaro) to the mall so that she could park in the hc space and not have to walk that far. When we got out of the car (4 girls in their early 20's who looked perfectly healthy) an older woman came out of the mall and laid into us about how she had to park at the back of the parking lot and a group of "young kids" were able to park in the hc space. I felt horrible but my friend completely ignored the woman. When we got in the mall I asked if she was alright and she said it was fine. I figured she forgot about it because she never spoke of it again. Lisa died about a year later from complications with lupus at the ripe old age of 26. I had thought about that woman who came out of the mall often wondering if she was still enjoying the long life that she got to live in comparison to my friend and if she realized how lucky she was to be able to walk to the back of the parking lot. Last month Lisa's parents set up a fund in her name for the Ronald McDonald house and in the interview Lisa's mom mentioned the incident at the mall years ago. Here I thought Lisa was fine with what happened and forgotten all about it when in actuallity it bothered her enough that part of the fund her parents are setting up is going toward educating people on the fact that not all disabilities are visible. I have NEVER again judged anyone who parks in a hc space and has a sticker. If they are there illegally they are the one's who have to live with themselves, who am I to judge?

 

[SueOKW]

What a great story. Mind sharing how someone might donate to that fund?