DAS for 2 children

[JenLT]

Since it's been established that your family won't have to split up while using the DAS, it doesn't seem that will be an issue.

However, the point of an accommodation is to provide equal access, not equal experience. And as plenty of families that don't include a disabled member split up during the day for any number of reasons, it isn't really valid to say that if a family has to split up, they aren't enjoying the park like other families.

Additionally, there is no requirement in the ADA that all members of a party accompany or receive the same accommodation as the disabled person. In fact in some cases, it clearly states that only one companion has to be permitted to accompany the disabled person as part of the accommodation. Though Disney hasn't chosen to do so, and I hope they don't, I believe they would be well within the law to allow only one companion to accompany the DAS holder.

We'll just have to disagree.

 

[gap2368]

I think your bet bet will be try and guess the child that is most likely to ride, and add her to that person DAS if that person dose not ride then you can talk to the CM and see if they will put her on the other one I think you will have better luck if you are nice to the CM if that dose not work then just think of it like what would happen if you were in line and you had to leave the line because of XYZ this dose happen to just every day guess at the park. Yes disney dose a great job of making the park a very wonderful place they do a great job of helping people with all kinds of needs but you are not going to have the perfect vacation no one dose things will happen it will be up to you to make the best of it your nice(I think that is the one with out the DAS) will take ques from you if you are all bent out of shape then she will too.

 

[JenLT]

I think your bet bet will be try and guess the child that is most likely to ride, and add her to that person DAS if that person dose not ride then you can talk to the CM and see if they will put her on the other one I think you will have better luck if you are nice to the CM if that dose not work then just think of it like what would happen if you were in line and you had to leave the line because of XYZ this dose happen to just every day guess at the park. Yes disney dose a great job of making the park a very wonderful place they do a great job of helping people with all kinds of needs but you are not going to have the perfect vacation no one dose things will happen it will be up to you to make the best of it your nice(I think that is the one with out the DAS) will take ques from you if you are all bent out of shape then she will too.

Yes I'm sure it will work out for them in the end. Thanks.

 

[OurBigTrip]

We'll just have to disagree.

Yep - but you're disagreeing with the ADA as well.

 

[JenLT]

Yep - but you're disagreeing with the ADA as well.

Not really. According to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals when ruling on the Disneyland Segway Case "public accommodations must start by considering how their facilities are used by non-disabled guests and then take reasonable steps to provide disabled guests with a like experience."

As for only one companion, the ADA in 2011 even requires that 3 companions be allowed to purchase tickets to sit with someone in an accessible seat. It is not an unreasonable accommodation to allow several family members to ride together and does not substantially alter the way in which the ride is experienced. A good majority of people ride with their families or friends. In fact, since Disney has proclaimed that the DAS in waiting in virtual queue, it does not alter the experience at all.

I personally do believe a family being forced to split up is not the same as a family that doesn't wish to stay together. It is not a like experience if the family had to do so unless all families were required to do so. My comment about that was in reference to the suggestion that my niece and her father should wait in lines and the other's should use the DAS. Disney has altered the DAS from being easily used by a family with more than one disabled child (providing the like experience of the whole family being allowed to ride together if desired within reason dependent on the numbers of available seats etc) to being much more complicated (having to choose which family member to attach yourself to). They should provide a means for a like experience. They may not have the technology after they switched the way the DAS was dealt with, but they had the technology prior to the switch (paper and pencil and stamps etc).

I'm sure it will end up working out okay. In my opinion the issue still needs to be addressed by Disney to make it a like experience. I understand that you don't think so, and I do understand your viewpoint. Perhaps your interpretation of the ADA is the correct one. We really won't know without a court decision.

By the way, saying I disagree with the ADA is likely not what you meant. Many people disagree with the ADA - they don't believe that it is good or necessary legislation. I on the other hand do agree with the necessity of the ADA, even if I believe that it needs to be modified to more directly address the issues faced by families with autism as the numbers of children with autism has grown. Perhaps if the ADA is modified, it will more directly address these issues.

 

[Baklava]

They do provide for a like experience. When the DAS holder goes, the rest of the party can go with them if they choose, just like any other family that waits in line. If 2 DAS holders pick different rides at the same time, the party can split and go with whoever they prefer, just like any other family. What you *can't* do is hold a DAS reservation for the additional family members on two rides at once. It's the equivalent of a FP. You only get to hold so many at a time. ALL families have to decide whether to use their limited resources together or in smaller groups.

If the whole family wants to go on both rides, you book one DAS and when it's done you book the next, just like FP. Having two disabled children does not mean the entire party needs twice as many reservations. That would be a superior experience rather than a like experience.

I get that they want to double their reservations. I totally understand wanting extras. It's beyond the scope of a like experience and it's not Disney's responsibility to provide that.

 

[JenLT]

They do provide for a like experience. When the DAS holder goes, the rest of the party can go with them if they choose, just like any other family that waits in line. If 2 DAS holders pick different rides at the same time, the party can split and go with whoever they prefer, just like any other family. What you *can't* do is hold a DAS reservation for the additional family members on two rides at once. It's the equivalent of a FP. You only get to hold so many at a time. ALL families have to decide whether to use their limited resources together or in smaller groups.

If the whole family wants to go on both rides, you book one DAS and when it's done you book the next, just like FP. Having two disabled children does not mean the entire party needs twice as many reservations. That would be a superior experience rather than a like experience.

I get that they want to double their reservations. I totally understand wanting extras. It's beyond the scope of a like experience and it's not Disney's responsibility to provide that.

No, you got it wrong. They don't want extra rides or double reservations. The opposite in fact. I asked how it works when a family of five has 2 DAS holders and the whole family of five wants to go on the same ONE ride at the same ONE time. My question was does the family get grouped together since it is now done on your magic band instead of on paper. On paper, there would be no issue.

I don't really want to retype the whole discussion. Suffice it to say the family wants to stick together as one group with any scared child sitting out of the ride, while the other two ride with the father. Then all move on to the next ride. It will be harder to work out, since this system makes it likely for the non-disabled child to get left out of rides without the good will of the CM, but they will figure it out.

 

[JenLT]

 

[Baklava]

If the whole family wants ONE ride at ONE time, they book ONE DAS return.

Mom and the scared child can sit out while the other three ride, just like any other family would with stand by or fast pass. There is no reason the non-disabled child would be left out- they are booked as a companion on the riding disabled sibling's DAS.

The only reason someone would be left out is if both children need to ride in a seat with dad and the seats only hold two. That's a situation that happens to any other family. If you have 2 kids who cannot or will not sit in a seat on their own, and only one adult, you have a logistical problem that has nothing to do with the workings of DAS. It's the equivalent of having 2 6 year olds and one parent riding. The issue is with the adult to child ratio of the party. That's not a situation that qualifies for an accommodation.

The easy solution is that if two kids both need to ride with dad, they make use of rider swap or fast passes for that ride and use the DAS to book something everyone wants to ride. DAS is essentially a sort of 4th FP. You can still hold your 3 FP while holding a DAS return. Rider swap with FP is awesome. Dad and kid one ride with FP and then dad and kid two ride on the rider swap. Kid two can be off with mom and the other kid doing a different ride while they wait for their turn. This is the same method available to any other family and it grants equal access.

 

[JenLT]

If the whole family wants ONE ride at ONE time, they book ONE DAS return.

Mom and the scared child can sit out while the other three ride, just like any other family would with stand by or fast pass. There is no reason the non-disabled child would be left out- they are booked as a companion on the riding disabled sibling's DAS.

The only reason someone would be left out is if both children need to ride in a seat with dad and the seats only hold two. That's a situation that happens to any other family. If you have 2 kids who cannot or will not sit in a seat on their own, and only one adult, you have a logistical problem that has nothing to do with the workings of DAS. It's the equivalent of having 2 6 year olds and one parent riding. The issue is with the adult to child ratio of the party. That's not a situation that qualifies for an accommodation.

The easy solution is that if two kids both need to ride with dad, they make use of rider swap or fast passes for that ride and use the DAS to book something everyone wants to ride. DAS is essentially a sort of 4th FP. You can still hold your 3 FP while holding a DAS return. Rider swap with FP is awesome. Dad and kid one ride with FP and then dad and kid two ride on the rider swap. Kid two can be off with mom and the other kid doing a different ride while they wait for their turn. This is the same method available to any other family and it grants equal access.

See I wish they could book one DAS return for both users. But what everyone else said is that each of the DAS users gets a time and the dad, mom, and sister have to name which DAS user is their companion. If they only book one return time and that child gets scared, the other DAS user also can't go on the ride.

Also someone said they cannot attach a DAS user to another DAS user's return time.

So lets say the two disable children are Susie and Bob. The non-disabled kid I Lori.
Susie gets a 1:00 return on Peter Pan. Bob gets a 1:00 return time on Peter Pan. Mom names Susie. Dad names Bob. (they can switch bands). Lori has to name either Susie or Bob. If she names Susie and Susie gets scared, Lori can't ride. Lori's return time doesn't work unless Susie rides. So now 6 year old Lori has to sit out unless the CM is understanding and lets her go in with Bob even though she no longer has a valid return time.

That's why I think it would make more sense for Susie, Bob, Lori, Mom, Dad to have a return time of 1:00 and as long as either Susie or Bob ride, the others can ride too. The seating should not be an issue for the rides they will choose. If it is an issue, they will bypass those rides anyway!

 

[JenLT]

The easy solution is that if two kids both need to ride with dad, they make use of rider swap or fast passes for that ride and use the DAS to book something everyone wants to ride. DAS is essentially a sort of 4th FP. You can still hold your 3 FP while holding a DAS return. Rider swap with FP is awesome. Dad and kid one ride with FP and then dad and kid two ride on the rider swap. Kid two can be off with mom and the other kid doing a different ride while they wait for their turn. This is the same method available to any other family and it grants equal access.

I have seen this debated on the forum. Some people have said you can only use rider swap if the child does not meet height requirements while other people say you can use it for scared children too. Rider swap would work really well for the family because my nephew won't ride some things that the rest of the family would like.

 

[Gracie09]

See I wish they could book one DAS return for both users. But what everyone else said is that each of the DAS users gets a time and the dad, mom, and sister have to name which DAS user is their companion. If they only book one return time and that child gets scared, the other DAS user also can't go on the ride.

Also someone said they cannot attach a DAS user to another DAS user's return time.

So lets say the two disable children are Susie and Bob. The non-disabled kid I Lori.
Susie gets a 1:00 return on Peter Pan. Bob gets a 1:00 return time on Peter Pan. Mom names Susie. Dad names Bob. (they can switch bands). Lori has to name either Susie or Bob. If she names Susie and Susie gets scared, Lori can't ride. Lori's return time doesn't work unless Susie rides. So now 6 year old Lori has to sit out unless the CM is understanding and lets her go in with Bob even though she no longer has a valid return time.

That's why I think it would make more sense for Susie, Bob, Lori, Mom, Dad to have a return time of 1:00 and as long as either Susie or Bob ride, the others can ride too. The seating should not be an issue for the rides they will choose. If it is an issue, they will bypass those rides anyway!

If you're concerned that one kid will be too scared to ride a ride then just have her das for her an one adult. The other kids on the other das. Make the das reservation at the same time and everyone gets to ride together. I think you are over analyzing this. Although my kids don't currently need a das, there have been times when one changes her mind after we get on the line and one adult just leaves with her and the others ride. Is that not a like experience to what you are decribing? Also I have been alone with my two girls and one changed her mind after waiting, so we all left. It's the way it rolls with kids and families sometimes. Often we would just go get an ice cream so everyone isn't upset

 

[SMD]

The situations you describe are not unique to having a disability. There are many reasons why a sibling being scared could cause another sibling not to ride. You have not described an experience that is different because of a disability. Also, if a family splits up, which many do, then waiting in the standby queue with one parent is appropriate. You've chosen to disregard that suggestion, but you can't even say whether or not it works for the family, since you're not one of the 2 adults accompanying these children. Making a software system with so many complicated options that front line CMs can't figure it out or it increases the time it takes to get and use return times would not be an overall improvement and would likely alter park operations. You haven't described anything that wouldn't be faced by a single parent with a non-DAS holding child who is under 7 and can't ride alone. Except in your examples this family has more options because there is a second parent who is available to watch the non-rider(s) while FP and standby could be used by the non-DAS holder. Is it true she might miss out on a ride due to a sibling's inability to ride? Yes. But that's true of any child in the park for many reasons. Life isn't fair, but in your examples it is not Disney making life unfair. Your examples ask for extra accommodations for the non-DAS holder, and as many have pointed out, it is not reasonable to expect those requests to be accommodated.​

 

[OurBigTrip]

The situations you describe are not unique to having a disability. There are many reasons why a sibling being scared could cause another sibling not to ride. You have not described an experience that is different because of a disability. Also, if a family splits up, which many do, then waiting in the standby queue with one parent is appropriate. You've chosen to disregard that suggestion, but you can't even say whether or not it works for the family, since you're not one of the 2 adults accompanying these children. Making a software system with so many complicated options that front line CMs can't figure it out or it increases the time it takes to get and use return times would not be an overall improvement and would likely alter park operations. You haven't described anything that wouldn't be faced by a single parent with a non-DAS holding child who is under 7 and can't ride alone. Except in your examples this family has more options because there is a second parent who is available to watch the non-rider(s) while FP and standby could be used by the non-DAS holder. Is it true she might miss out on a ride due to a sibling's inability to ride? Yes. But that's true of any child in the park for many reasons. Life isn't fair, but in your examples it is not Disney making life unfair. Your examples ask for extra accommodations for the non-DAS holder, and as many have pointed out, it is not reasonable to expect those requests to be accommodated.​

Exactly. The fact that this was possible under the paper DAS is really irrelevant IMO, since it's really not a disability accommodation.

 

[gap2368]

The situations you describe are not unique to having a disability. There are many reasons why a sibling being scared could cause another sibling not to ride. You have not described an experience that is different because of a disability. Also, if a family splits up, which many do, then waiting in the standby queue with one parent is appropriate. You've chosen to disregard that suggestion, but you can't even say whether or not it works for the family, since you're not one of the 2 adults accompanying these children. Making a software system with so many complicated options that front line CMs can't figure it out or it increases the time it takes to get and use return times would not be an overall improvement and would likely alter park operations. You haven't described anything that wouldn't be faced by a single parent with a non-DAS holding child who is under 7 and can't ride alone. Except in your examples this family has more options because there is a second parent who is available to watch the non-rider(s) while FP and standby could be used by the non-DAS holder. Is it true she might miss out on a ride due to a sibling's inability to ride? Yes. But that's true of any child in the park for many reasons. Life isn't fair, but in your examples it is not Disney making life unfair. Your examples ask for extra accommodations for the non-DAS holder, and as many have pointed out, it is not reasonable to expect those requests to be accommodated.​

this is what I was trying to say you just said it much better.

 

[wilkeliza]

The situations you describe are not unique to having a disability. There are many reasons why a sibling being scared could cause another sibling not to ride. You have not described an experience that is different because of a disability. Also, if a family splits up, which many do, then waiting in the standby queue with one parent is appropriate. You've chosen to disregard that suggestion, but you can't even say whether or not it works for the family, since you're not one of the 2 adults accompanying these children. Making a software system with so many complicated options that front line CMs can't figure it out or it increases the time it takes to get and use return times would not be an overall improvement and would likely alter park operations. You haven't described anything that wouldn't be faced by a single parent with a non-DAS holding child who is under 7 and can't ride alone. Except in your examples this family has more options because there is a second parent who is available to watch the non-rider(s) while FP and standby could be used by the non-DAS holder. Is it true she might miss out on a ride due to a sibling's inability to ride? Yes. But that's true of any child in the park for many reasons. Life isn't fair, but in your examples it is not Disney making life unfair. Your examples ask for extra accommodations for the non-DAS holder, and as many have pointed out, it is not reasonable to expect those requests to be accommodated.​

She's not asking for extra accommodation at all really. The issue is say we have Mom, Dad, DD #1, DD #2, DS. DD#1 and D are DAS holders. So all 5 people are going to ride Peter Pan. They go up to the CM and say we would like a return time for Peter Pan. CM says sure and scans DS's MB for the DAS. They ask who is riding. Dad says myself and DD #2. So the CM adds them to the DAS return. Now they scan DD#1 MSB for the DAS and say who is ridding. Mom says me. CM assigns the time and says see you can come back in 50 minutes, see you then and sends the family on their way. Family goes to Village Hous to grab the kids some water and sit to pass their 50 minute wait. Now in those 50 minutes DS decides he doesn't want to ride after all. Now DD#2 and Dad aren't allowed to ride anymore even though Mom and DD#1 can. Dad is willing to stay behind with DS and says we will try later and lets just wait here for Mom and Sisters. The problem is DD#2 is linked to DS. So with a non-Das family there is no linking. With 2 parents one can stay behind with the non-riders and the other parent can go with the kids. DD2 is over 7 (I'm guessing here) so riding alone in a car is a non-issue. The family still has to go explain the situation and hope the CMs understand that DD2 had the same return time but was linked to DS instead of DD1 and the family honestly had no clue he was going to want to sit out because he has rode the ride before and loved it. So DD2 is out of luck because her parents couldn't tell the future.

In a non-DAS family if DS 1 decided he didn't want to ride after they stood in line for 50 minutes, Dad could just tell the CM oh sorry he doesn't want to ride can I exit with him? CM would say SURE and the rest of the family would go on the ride no issue and Dad and Son wait at the exit for the rest of the family.

 

[ErinTwinmom]

So I have used parent swap exactly once with das. I do not think it is a normal thing but one of the twins would not stand to be measured at soaring and suddenly an adult and one child had to sit out, the cm was nice enough to give us a parent swap so all the adults could ride. My twins are both autistic.

 

[JenLT]

The situations you describe are not unique to having a disability. There are many reasons why a sibling being scared could cause another sibling not to​

You and ourbigtrip seem very invested in my agreeing with you. I don't. I'm sorry if that upsets you. It's okay for us to have different opinions.

As I've said I'm sure they will make it work for them.

 

[OurBigTrip]

She's not asking for extra accommodation at all really. The issue is say we have Mom, Dad, DD #1, DD #2, DS. DD#1 and D are DAS holders. So all 5 people are going to ride Peter Pan. They go up to the CM and say we would like a return time for Peter Pan. CM says sure and scans DS's MB for the DAS. They ask who is riding. Dad says myself and DD #2. So the CM adds them to the DAS return. Now they scan DD#1 MSB for the DAS and say who is ridding. Mom says me. CM assigns the time and says see you can come back in 50 minutes, see you then and sends the family on their way. Family goes to Village Hous to grab the kids some water and sit to pass their 50 minute wait. Now in those 50 minutes DS decides he doesn't want to ride after all. Now DD#2 and Dad aren't allowed to ride anymore even though Mom and DD#1 can. Dad is willing to stay behind with DS and says we will try later and lets just wait here for Mom and Sisters. The problem is DD#2 is linked to DS. So with a non-Das family there is no linking. With 2 parents one can stay behind with the non-riders and the other parent can go with the kids. DD2 is over 7 (I'm guessing here) so riding alone in a car is a non-issue. The family still has to go explain the situation and hope the CMs understand that DD2 had the same return time but was linked to DS instead of DD1 and the family honestly had no clue he was going to want to sit out because he has rode the ride before and loved it. So DD2 is out of luck because her parents couldn't tell the future.

In a non-DAS family if DS 1 decided he didn't want to ride after they stood in line for 50 minutes, Dad could just tell the CM oh sorry he doesn't want to ride can I exit with him? CM would say SURE and the rest of the family would go on the ride no issue and Dad and Son wait at the exit for the rest of the family.

Again, this is requesting an accommodation for a non-disabled sibling, which is not the point of DAS.

 

[JenLT]

So I have used parent swap exactly once with das. I do not think it is a normal thing but one of the twins would not stand to be measured at soaring and suddenly an adult and one child had to sit out, the cm was nice enough to give us a parent swap so all the adults could ride. My twins are both autistic.

Good to know. That could be helpful. We'll try this without any expectations and see what happens.