Are Disney parks no longer for the Middle class?

[monsterkitty]

I am not saying that everyone could cut 25% from their monthly spend.

I am saying that everyone can afford to save, even a little, by adjusting their lifestyle, just a little.

I'll remember to tell my students this when they tell be that they're family is being evicted because they couldn't pay rent, eat, pay for gas, and cover medical bills.

 

[Colleen27]

Fwiw, less than 10% of Americans do not carry health insurance so I find the idea that everyone is at risk of going bankrupt kind of hyperbolic.

"Everyone" is certainly hyperbolic to a degree, but it isn't as though carrying health insurance is a sure thing these days either. At this point, is there anyone who can say they don't know someone who has incurred tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills despite insurance, or who had employer-based insurance but ended up losing it because they became too ill to work, or who (back in the pre-ACA days) hit lifetime coverage caps long before the crisis resolved, or otherwise went from a position of thinking they were okay only to end up drowning in medical bills? Some people are less vulnerable than others to these issues - those with very, very good coverage, families where both spouses work in jobs with access to good insurance, those with plenty in the bank to cover OOP expenses - but it is a real risk for most Americans.

 

[kdonnel]

Well, some people can save or they can pay their rent/mortgage and eat. I know which one we chose when we were in that situation in the past. Don't be so smug in believing it could never happen to you.

Where did I say bankruptcy could not happen to me?

 

[monsterkitty]

Where did I say bankruptcy could not happen to me?

Where did Searc mention bankruptcy?

One doesn't have to claim bankruptcy because they can't pay rent or mortgage and eat.

 

[kdonnel]

I'll remember to tell my students this when they tell be that they're family is being evicted because they couldn't pay rent, eat, pay for gas, and cover medical bills.

Happened to me as a child. Lived 6 months in a tent.

I remember my mom smoking a pack a day. A lifestyle choice that literally set fire to a portion of the family income.

The schools have failed generation after generation by not teaching basic money skills.

 

[kdonnel]

Where did Searc mention bankruptcy?

One doesn't have to claim bankruptcy because they can't pay rent or mortgage and eat.

It is the natural progression based on all the medical bills talk.

Over 60% of bankruptcies are triggered by medical bills.

 

[monsterkitty]

Happened to me as a child. Lived 6 months in a tent.

I remember my mom smoking a pack a day. A lifestyle choice that literally set fire to a portion of the family income.

The schools have failed generation after generation by not teaching basic money skills.

And when are we supposed to teach these "basic money skills?" We don't have time enough in the day as it is because of all the testing. We refuse to teach to the test so don't pull that card and we don't want the tests anyways. Where is the parents' responsibilities in teaching these skills? My mom taught me these skills when my dad died.

In my metro area rent is outrageous. We have a handful of first and second year teachers at my school. None of them can afford to pay rent, food, health, gas, and a car payment on their salaries. If they have any student loans all bets are off on living in a one-bedroom apartment. Everyone of them has a second job.

I have a student who has 5 siblings. Dad was killed in a car accident when they were small. Mom has mental health issues. My student is the only girl in the family. They live in a one-bedroom apartment - the boys get the bedroom, mom the living room, and my student sleeps in the double closet in the hallway to the bedroom. Mom was having trouble paying rent on that so my student was fearful they were going to be evicted yet again. Her story is just one of 100s I could tell you from working in a poverty-stricken school.

 

[Searc]

Where did I say bankruptcy could not happen to me?

I never mentioned bankruptcy, nor am I referring to it.

 

[kdonnel]

And when are we supposed to teach these "basic money skills?" We don't have time enough in the day as it is because of all the testing. We refuse to teach to the test so don't pull that card and we don't want the tests anyways. Where is the parents' responsibilities in teaching these skills? My mom taught me these skills when my dad died.

In my metro area rent is outrageous. We have a handful of first and second year teachers at my school. None of them can afford to pay rent, food, health, gas, and a car payment on their salaries. If they have any student loans all bets are off on living in a one-bedroom apartment. Everyone of them has a second job.

I have a student who has 5 siblings. Dad was killed in a car accident when they were small. Mom has mental health issues. My student is the only girl in the family. They live in a one-bedroom apartment - the boys get the bedroom, mom the living room, and my student sleeps in the double closet in the hallway to the bedroom. Mom was having trouble paying rent on that so my student was fearful they were going to be evicted yet again. Her story is just one of 100s I could tell you from working in a poverty-stricken school.

Saying the schools are too busy is the same excuse as I can’t afford to save.

If it were a priority, it would happen.

But it is not a priority.

Start early. 15 minute lessons once a week starting in kindergarten. Ramp up to hour long lessons still once a week by middle school.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

And when are we supposed to teach these "basic money skills?" We don't have time enough in the day as it is because of all the testing. We refuse to teach to the test so don't pull that card and we don't want the tests anyways. Where is the parents' responsibilities in teaching these skills? My mom taught me these skills when my dad died.

Parents can only teach what they know. You aren't going to break generations worth of bad financial habit by relying on parents to educate.

Basic finance is about a 60 minute subject anyways. Explain how to balance your bills, the impact of compound interest/debt, and work through some examples showing how negatively/positively these forces can impact your life. Could cover that in a single math class.

 

[AurumPunzel]

No one is entitled to everything they want.

All those that claim they cannot afford to save are lying to them selves. The truth is they cannot afford to save and live the lifestyle they are living.

When I got laid off I immediately looked at my budget(everyone has one right?) to determine what I could cut. I was able to cut 25% from my monthly expenditures, 25% of fluff that made my life easier or "better". My budget is not unique in that regard.

If people weren't paying money in credit card interest they could spend more on vacation.

Envy and delayed gratification is part of being an adult.

And that's where the issue lies. A lot of us are never taught finances at school, except to count money, and many end up learning the hard way. And social media-fuelled envy only exacerbates it.

I never said everyone's entitled to what they want. What I'm saying is that the economy is driven by demand, and with demand comes borrowing. However, even that can make or break an economy, as I mentioned with the subprime mortgage crisis 12 years ago, which is an example of what happens when the right balance isn't struck. When you end up without regular income, things can come crashing down, which is why you should save as much as you can in case the eventuality comes. Trouble is that not everyone knows the importance of saving and making sure they get the right balance when it comes to borrowing.

 

[mousefan73]

I'll remember to tell my students this when they tell be that they're family is being evicted because they couldn't pay rent, eat, pay for gas, and cover medical bills.

Also don’t forget to tell them it’s their parents fault for not having better paying jobs with low-cost healthcare.

 

[PollyannaMom]

Parents can only teach what they know. You aren't going to break generations worth of bad financial habit by relying on parents to educate.

Totally agree!

Could cover that in a single math class.

...but not with this part. Kids rarely internalize one-time lessons. Information needs to be reinforced and actually prove useful to them in order to really stick in their brains. So it will need more than a single math class.

I still think we should should teach it, though!


With both examples (school lessons and savings) the key is that for a new thing to be added, an old thing has to go. I'd personally love to see finance added (along with other electives and more recess) and high-stakes testing go!

On the savings side, sure it would be great for someone to give up cigarettes and save that money! - But what if they already don't smoke? What if their budget is so tight that cutting "a little" from housing means the difference between a safe neighborhood and an unsafe one? Or cutting "a little" from groceries is the difference between fresh vegetables and nothing but hot dogs. (It reminds me of the quote: "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.")

I'm not saying that there aren't tons of people who could do better at saving, just that claiming it is possible for everyone is unrealistic, which makes people think the whole idea is unrealistic, and they won't even try.

 

[wgeo]

I think - as relevant to the original topic of this thread - that perhaps most Middle Class people could probably do a better job at saving.

I don't think that the large amount of people that are on the poverty line should just be told to make better choices and save more - but that's really a different conversation than the beginning of the thread.

I think once you have "made it" into the middle class level that most of those people would have a little more wiggle room in their budget and and more ability to choose one "luxury" over another.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I think once you have "made it" into the middle class level that most of those people would have a little more wiggle room in their budget and and more ability to choose one "luxury" over another.

Yes, I think that's the way to put it.

 

[MrsCobraBubbles]

I'm chiming in late, but I just read through some of the most recent replies and I can't believe where the thread has gone. Anyway, I know some others have said it too but I also grew up poor. the kind of poor where we were always under the threat of homelessness, we almost never had more than two out of the three utilities turned on at a time, I had to start working on local farms when I was a kid to help pay the rent, we were evicted a few times and we bounced around, living with friends and family sometimes. Yes, my mother mismanaged money, she smoked away a good part of her salary (cigarettes weren't as expensive as they are now, but still) and she has a shopping addiction, but who among us doesn't have vices? My mother also has a mental illness that made it hard for her to hang on to jobs. I grew up in a poor, rural community so I knew plenty of other poor kids.

It is terribly hard to break the cycle of poverty. There are so many things that factor into it, more than most people think about. In high school I was lucky enough to get sent to an alternative school where we were taught life skills like basic money management, I truly believe that school saved me. That school prioritized what the students needed (life skills and group therapy) over what the state wanted (standardized testing) but we were a mostly-privately-funded charter school that wasn't subject to all the state's requirements. Public schools don't offer that type of curriculum to typical students.

Kudos to those that have crawled out of poverty, but it's unfair to think that everyone can do it just because a few did. Not everyone is able to save, not everyone can get credit, not everyone can find a job making a decent salary. I'm not as poor as I was growing up, and because of the lessons I learned in my alternative high school I know the importance of paying bills on time, good credit, and saving a little for a rainy day, but I'm far from middle class too, and I am well aware that an injury or serious illness, car accident, etc. could put my family in danger of losing our home or being unable to pay for food, clothing or other basic necessities. And I can appreciate that where I am now is mostly the result of good luck and opportunities that others did not have. So much of what happens to us in life is chance and luck. There but for the grace of God, go I.

 

[mrodgers]

That's not middle class in my opinion

That's the problem with discussing things such as this thread. Everyone has a different opinion of what middle class is. To me, middle means exactly that, middle, such as a $63,000 median income. From this forum and some other forums I frequent, it seems to me that most people think that 2 spouses making $90-100k each is middle class. That's freakin loaded. I couldn't fathom making that much money as a household.

 

[mjkacmom]

Happened to me as a child. Lived 6 months in a tent.

I remember my mom smoking a pack a day. A lifestyle choice that literally set fire to a portion of the family income.

The schools have failed generation after generation by not teaching basic money skills.

Our state requires all high school students take Financial Literacy in high school, has for years.

ETA, I used to be a smoker, my parents smoked, when I was in high school a carton of cigarettes was maybe $20?

 

[kdonnel]

Our state requires all high school students take Financial Literacy in high school, has for years.

ETA, I used to be a smoker, my parents smoked, when I was in high school a carton of cigarettes was maybe $20?

Waiting until high school is too late.

It should be taught early and often.

Discounting saving $20 is the wrong idea. When I cut from my budget during my layoff it was a multitude of small things that added up to significant savings.

 

[msjprincess]

That's the problem with discussing things such as this thread. Everyone has a different opinion of what middle class is. To me, middle means exactly that, middle, such as a $63,000 median income. From this forum and some other forums I frequent, it seems to me that most people think that 2 spouses making $90-100k each is middle class. That's freakin loaded. I couldn't fathom making that much money as a household.

Again, it's all relative. I live in a very high cost of living area. $90-$100k is far from loaded in this area. I live in a lower middle class neighborhood. Mostly blue collar workers and civil servants. Median household income is $120K. Someone making $60K in another part of the state or country would be better off financially than someone making $120K in this area.