Are Disney parks no longer for the Middle class?

[Starport Seven-Five]

This reminds me of something I once read that was talking about how test questions could be biased in their wording putting kids at an advantage or disadvantage depending on their backgrounds. One of the examples given was a word problem involving a “schooner.” Plenty of children wouldn’t be able to get the right answer based on the simple fact they wouldn’t even know what the heck a schooner was.

I'm not sure if I'd know if it wasn't for Mallrats.

 

[L&Lfan]

Maybe it depends on the area. Where I am the people who work trades seem to be the ones looked down on. And yet I know more people with college degrees that don't use them than do use them.

I firmly believe many folks would be better off mastering a trade than getting a degree in something they’ll never use and they end up delivering pizza .

 

[Brett Wyman]

Trying to book a room for presidents day week. $835 for a lake view BLT studio!!! On popular weeks its not for anyone except the rich.

Before some comments on that being a Monorail resort. Its $717 for standard view at AKL.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

Trying to book a room for presidents day week. $835 for a lake view BLT studio!!! On popular weeks its not for anyone except the rich.

Before some comments on that being a Monorail resort. Its $717 for standard view at AKL.

I don't think deluxe resorts should be used to describe vacations for the middle class.

Doubly so when you're quoting prices a month out on a holiday weekend.

 

[Brett Wyman]

I don't think deluxe resorts should be used to describe vacations for the middle class.

Doubly so when you're quoting prices a month out on a holiday weekend.

Fine. How about Riverside garden view for $386 then. The point is the jumps have been outrageous in a short period of time.

 

[mnrose]

Fine. How about Riverside garden view for $386 then. The point is the jumps have been outrageous in a short period of time.

Utterly absurd. I don't get it. Thankfully, my "we wanna go to Disney" days are behind me (my kids are 20) and the days of "lets take the grandkids to Disney" are years and years away. Phew.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

Fine. How about Riverside garden view for $386 then. The point is the jumps have been outrageous in a short period of time.

And it's $225/night over Labor Day weekend for a Port Orleans Riverside Garden view. If that is too much, there are surely offsite hotels that are $100/night or less when booked with a normal gap between booking and travel.

The prices you're quoting are because it's last minute and the hotels are booked up. That is always a situation where the rooms will be expensive.

Don't get me wrong, Disney World is an expensive trip but that's more because of tickets/food IMO. If someone can't afford to stay onsite it is not going to prevent a Disney World trip as Orlando has a huge supply of hotel rooms at relatively low rates.

 

[RamblingMad]

Don't get me wrong, Disney World is an expensive trip but that's more because of tickets/food IMO. If someone can't afford to stay onsite it is not going to prevent a Disney World trip as Orlando has a huge supply of hotel rooms at relatively low rates.

WDW is expensive for a couple of reasons. The first is that the parks are spread out. Now, I'm comparing this to DL, where I can walk over to the other park. Sure, I can walk between EPCOT and MK, but the walk is far longer than the one in CA. The second is the perks for staying on property at WDW is far better than at DL. You get to book your FPs far earlier. This is a big deal. What's left over really sucks. And you pay a huge premium for this perk. Finally, the ticket prices and food. The reason why ticket prices are a big deal is because you need more days at the parks because of the travel time. I think, I can hit the same number of rides in DL over a weekend that I can hit at WDW over a week. That means I spend far less on tickets. Food in both parks are expensive.

Right now, I don't even think the parks are priced for the upper middle class. I know plenty of people with household incomes exceeding $200k that consider WDW as well as DL too expensive right now. But I know plenty of folks with $60k household incomes going to the parks by putting on either their charge card or getting a personal loan.

The problem with timing Disney vacations is that your kids are only young for so long. You can't wait for ideal pricing. And folks are willing to spend for the vacation. Really, this just means that Disney might be a better company to invest in than to visit.

 

[luvsJack]

I don't know either, and I suspect that the answer in one place won't be the answer in another so one or the other won't end up implemented thnks to our tendency to look for top-down solutions.



And that is a HUGE problem for kids from low-performing schools. It is hard enough to afford college when the max Pell grant is $6000ish and a year of college costs $20K without adding a semester or two of remedial classes just to get up to college level".



It isn't. My husband is a tradesman and my son is apprenticing in a trade. I don't have a problem with that path, but just like college, it isn't for everyone. And the demographics of one's birth shouldn't be destiny. The hostility/testiness of those in the trades, who see any argument in favor of a college prep path as an implication that the trades aren't "good enough", is part of the problem in districts like mine - rural, blue collar, working class, and chock full of tradesmen of varying degrees of skill who resent the idea that bright kids with an interest in college or a degree-dependent career should want/need a "way out" and refuse to support efforts to bring modern technology, advanced academic classes, coding and the like to the schools. It puzzles me; it feels like we've gone from wanting better for the next generation to saying "if it was good enough for me, it is good enough for them".

You last sentence is part of the problem on either side of what training or degree a kid goes to school for.

Going into a trade isn’t just “good enough”.

I am at a community college. Our trades are all AAS degrees except for 2. LPN and welding are certificate programs.

For 4 of the AAS programs, the students can choose to bridge to a BS degree program at one of the state schools. And they require academics in each area: Science, Math, English and Humanities. The students are eligible for PTK, student government, etc. The academic and career/tech instructors are wonderful at working together and if a student in an AAS program shows a lot of promise in another area, they spend a great deal of time counseling that student for the possibility of switching to an academic major or even to another AAS program.

No one is expected to “settle” for anything nor are they doing anything that is just “good enough”. The hope is that they are doing what is right for them, their choices and their interests and talents.

Almost all of our technical students are “bright” students but they are making an educated choice into a career. And perhaps some choose to have a technical degree and no debt rather than spending years in school, being 10’s of thousands in debt and not making a whole lot more money.

Carpenters, electricians, plumbers, brick layers, welders, electronic technicians all make very good money. And they have a freedom in the type of work they do that someone with a BS degree in banking (for instance) may not have.

Welding students (one year certificate) have gotten travel jobs that they really enjoy, lets them travel the country and make good money in the process. Being an LPN is a calling that most of these students have dreamed of for years.

It’s not just “good enough” it’s a career that if chosen correctly, can be exactly what that student wants to do for their life.

No student should be led toward any degree because they are “bright”. Any degree takes hard work and dedication. They have to want to “be” whatever it is bad enough to become it. And all the brightness in the world isn’t going to get a student to the end if they don’t want it. They have to be willing to do the work too.

What I do believe high schools need is more programs that help students find their path. Their own path regardless of which college it takes them to. And counselors that help them find the way to take that path.

 

[MillauFr]

Utterly absurd. I don't get it. Thankfully, my "we wanna go to Disney" days are behind me (my kids are 20) and the days of "lets take the grandkids to Disney" are years and years away. Phew.

Agreed. I guess we will be sticking with Disneyland. Nice off-site hotels within a 10 minute walk to the front gate go for a $150 a night

 

[Darcy03231]

I'm going in September during a "slow" week for 8 days/7 nights. 2 adults, 2 children. Two rooms at Movies, 6 day base tickets and DDP. Cost is $4650, not including airfare, the bus to get to the airport & back and spending money. I ran the dining calculator and we'll come out slightly ahead on dining since we plan to do a character meal every day. It's been a number of years since I've done an on-site, week long vacation and was stunned at how much prices have gone up!

 

[Colleen27]

So true. I am amazed at the number of people in the US who actually look down at those wanting or obtaining a college education. It’s baffling.

I'm not. All the attention being paid to the looming student loan crisis makes it very easy to deride college education as a sucker's bet, and there are those who are more than eager to play up that perception to serve political ends.

Maybe it depends on the area. Where I am the people who work trades seem to be the ones looked down on. And yet I know more people with college degrees that don't use them than do use them.

I think there's a certain element of in group vs. out group at work there; whichever choice is in the minority in a given area or social circle is looked down on as wrong. I get both sides of it at times - my professional circle is entirely college-educated and I get shocked reactions when I talk about my son becoming a welder, and I get the same in my blue-collar neighborhood about sending my daughter to a far-away college that suits her goal of double majoring in biology and Japanese.

Fine. How about Riverside garden view for $386 then. The point is the jumps have been outrageous in a short period of time.

It is the rate of increase that I find hard to swallow. In 2005, when we took the kids to WDW for the first time, we decided against staying at the Poly because it was an outrageous $225/night (during free dining, no less!). Now you'd pay that for a weekend night at Pop Century during much of the year.

I guess we picked the right time to discover Disneyland.

 

[Colleen27]

Agreed. I guess we will be sticking with Disneyland. Nice off-site hotels within a 10 minute walk to the front gate go for a $150 a night

Or less, if you're flexible and willing to do a bit of bargain hunting. I paid $109 for a clean-but-basic independent motel in August and $77 for the convention center Hilton last week. DLR has me absolutely hooked at this point; between the difference in costs, in food quality, and in parks experience, I think it is my new "home" park even though it is clear on the other side of the continent.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

The second is the perks for staying on property at WDW is far better than at DL. You get to book your FPs far earlier. This is a big deal. What's left over really sucks. And you pay a huge premium for this perk.

The only fast passes that are consistently unavailable at 30 days are SDMT, FOP, and SDD and those are even difficult to get at 60 days. March 21st (60+1) has a few evening passes for SDD, nothing for FOP, and starting at noon for SDMT. Rope drop those rides or try it as a 4th fast pass (we got multiple FOP fast passes and a SDD fast pass during my last trip as 4th/5th/etc).

Our last trip was off site so we booked fast passes at 30 days. We didn't consider it a big deal.

Right now, I don't even think the parks are priced for the upper middle class. I know plenty of people with household incomes exceeding $200k that consider WDW as well as DL too expensive right now. But I know plenty of folks with $60k household incomes going to the parks by putting on either their charge card or getting a personal loan.

I'm guessing for those with incomes over 200k that consider Disney too expensive it's more of an opinion than actually being unable to afford it.

the bus to get to the airport

Don't forget about Magical Express. It's included with your stay.

 

[Heather07438]

I'm going in September during a "slow" week for 8 days/7 nights. 2 adults, 2 children. Two rooms at Movies, 6 day base tickets and DDP. Cost is $4650, not including airfare, the bus to get to the airport & back and spending money. I ran the dining calculator and we'll come out slightly ahead on dining since we plan to do a character meal every day. It's been a number of years since I've done an on-site, week long vacation and was stunned at how much prices have gone up!

A quote I still have from 2016:
Check in Sunday, April 10 (Sunday after Easter)
Check out Friday, April 15
5 Nights / 6 Days
2 Adults, 1 Junior age 13
Art of Animation
Little Mermaid Standard Room
6-day Park Hopper Tickets
Memory Maker
Total $2243 including tax

Today: $3110 including tax (Room $1200, Tickets $1740, MM $170)
That's almost a 50% price increase in 4 years. Pretty serious leap.

We've stayed at and priced many Mods & Dlx's through these years and increases are across the board. And it feels like there used to be better room discounts offered too.

Some guests will go less frequently but save up and spend more per day when they finally get there. I think that's a bit of WDW's intention along with increasing their quality against contenders. They just better make sure to maintain their standards at these rates. Yikes!

 

[wgeo]

Oh fun, I can search that.

Back in 2011 - we priced out an 8day/7night stay at Wilderness Lodge for 2A/2C including hoppers and the dining plan - total was 4800

Priced that out for the same dates (Oct) this year and the total is 8500. It's been 9 years but that is still quite the increase.

Both of those were priced without any discounts - and we didn't take that trip in 2011 - ended up staying offsite to save money because 4800 was too much for us at the time.

 

[RamblingMad]

I'm guessing for those with incomes over 200k that consider Disney too expensive it's more of an opinion than actually being unable to afford it.

It’s not about affordability. It’s about value for your money. Right now WDW is not a good value for your money given alternatives. I can take a trip to Hawaii for half as much as WDW. It shouldn’t cost twice as much to stay at the Poly versus a high end resort in Maui. That doesn’t make sense.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

My biggest problem with this discussion is that the "Middle Class" is 1. state dependent (due to cost of living), and 2. a large salary range (Pew says $45,200 to $135,600).

A family making $135,600 in Fort Wayne, Indiana (apparently the city with the lowest cost of living according to this article), in my opinion, could certainly afford a WDW vacation, depending on mortgage, childcard, etc. A family making $45,200 would probably find it a lot harder (again, depending on mortgage, childcare, etc.)

 

[RamblingMad]

Some guests will go less frequently but save up and spend more per day when they finally get there. I think that's a bit of WDW's intention along with increasing their quality against contenders. They just better make sure to maintain their standards at these rates. Yikes!

You can’t save because wage increases aren’t keeping up with Disney price increases. Of course, taking on debt at a rate above the rate increases doesn’t make sense either. Folks are just being priced out.

 

[tzolkin]

It's not that I don't think we have become way more about college expectation over other things but I could totally see how detrimental it could be to a subset of a population to teach that you're only going to graduate and not enough about opportunities after that-college being one of them.

... It really reminds me of the scene in Dangerous Minds where LouAnne goes to the house of the two boys who just up and left school and the mom (I think it was the mom) was like that's not in their future and that they need to be working as they've got bills to pay because she's not raising doctors or lawyers. Ironically (and perhaps a part, though not all of it, of the point of the scene) is that without the high school graduation their employment opportunities can be severely limited thus keeping their abilities in the future limited.

My husband is a good example of how early assumptions can steer the course of students lives and make it much more difficult for them to succeed. His KINDERGARTEN teacher told his mom (and wrote in his academic record) that he was stupid and that "he would never graduate high school and the best he could hope for was to work a minimum wage job". (We believe this actually had more to do with being the child of an impoverished single mom than his actual aptitude for school.) He was put in classes for kids with learning disabilities, but instead of helping they seemed to have considered the kids to be lost causes. The only thing he ever did in HS English classes was look at newspaper clippings and figure out how to support themselves on minimum wage. I definitely think financial education and budgeting are important, but he did not learn anything about grammar or spelling, didn't read any books, and never once wrote a paper (because "what's the point, you're not going to college anyway"). The few times he met with his guidance counselor, he was told that he should just go ahead and drop out because it wasn't really going to make any difference if he graduated anyway.

My husband is actually very intelligent, articulate, and a natural leader. He did wind up going to college and has had a very successful career. But it would have been so much easier if he had been given the same educational opportunities as everyone else early on. His first degree was an Associates in Nursing. This should have been a two year program, but because he wound up having to take two years (including summers) of classes at a community college that he should have covered in high school before even starting. He had to learn basic note-taking, study, and testing skills. When he went back to school later for his bachelors degree, I had to teach him how to construct different types of writing, what a thesis statement is, etc. These were all things I learned in elem/middle school, but he had never been exposed to.