Are Disney parks no longer for the Middle class?

[mjkacmom]

So rather than work to improve the graduation rate, you think it's appropriate to deny that 73% of students who do graduate a comparable preparation for college as compared to more affluent areas? Reality is, if they're in a low income area, the families cannot afford to pay extra outside of public schooling for college preparatory lessons - but those kids would have more access to financial aid/scholarship programs to make college accessible....IF they were academically prepared.

The city I referenced has some excellent public magnet schools. There is only so much money, it should be spent wisely. There are public schools with only a 50% graduation rate, should they still offer dozens of AP classes and hire those teachers only for them to remain empty? I think it’s better to have magnet schools where those who wish to excel academically can flourish and be prepared for college.

 

[RamblingMad]

The city I referenced has some excellent public magnet schools. There is only so much money, it should be spent wisely. There are public schools with only a 50% graduation rate, should they still offer dozens of AP classes and hire those teachers only for them to remain empty? I think it’s better to have magnet schools where those who wish to excel academically can flourish and be prepared for college.

Only you can’t realistically get to them with public transportation.

 

[siren0119]

The city I referenced has some excellent public magnet schools. There is only so much money, it should be spent wisely. There are public schools with only a 50% graduation rate, should they still offer dozens of AP classes and hire those teachers only for them to remain empty? I think it’s better to have magnet schools where those who wish to excel academically can flourish and be prepared for college.

If the magnet schools are still free, and transportation isn't an issue (the schools ensure that kids within the district have transportation if the magnet school isn't within walking/public transit), that's not what we're talking about here. It's still within a school system that provides opportunity for students at all levels. But that's not the case in many areas, where affluent towns provide enriching opportunities and college prep classes and lower income towns lack the same educational and extra curricular opportunities. I'm a firm believer that where you live should not have an impact on the quality of your education, but we are far too classist in this country to have that conversation. I live in an affluent town in a state with some of the best public schools and public vocational schools in the country, and it sickens me that kids in other states don't get the same opportunities and education as my kids unless they can afford private school. It's a disservice to the future of our country.

 

[Colleen27]

I do not know what the answer is. Our state throws SO much money at the poorer districts, and nothing seems to change. Dd18 had an athletic scholars awards dinner for students in our county, a boy and girl from each high school. Each student was presented with their GPA’s, SAT/ACT scores, class rank, and where they were going to college. There was a huge disparity between the haves and have nots, with the exception of class rank. I have a friend who teaches in the next town where the schools are ranked much lower, and feels there is a lot less parent involvement.

I don't know either, and I suspect that the answer in one place won't be the answer in another so one or the other won't end up implemented thnks to our tendency to look for top-down solutions.

My hs is currently at 50% grad rate. I totally get what you’re saying. I went to university unprepared. It took my first year to basically redo high school.

The problem now is that jobs without a university degree pay meaningfully less than they did when I graduated. When I graduated the pay difference wasn’t as big as it’s now.

And that is a HUGE problem for kids from low-performing schools. It is hard enough to afford college when the max Pell grant is $6000ish and a year of college costs $20K without adding a semester or two of remedial classes just to get up to college level".

That sure sounds like a veiled insult on the many tradesmen and women out there.

It isn't. My husband is a tradesman and my son is apprenticing in a trade. I don't have a problem with that path, but just like college, it isn't for everyone. And the demographics of one's birth shouldn't be destiny. The hostility/testiness of those in the trades, who see any argument in favor of a college prep path as an implication that the trades aren't "good enough", is part of the problem in districts like mine - rural, blue collar, working class, and chock full of tradesmen of varying degrees of skill who resent the idea that bright kids with an interest in college or a degree-dependent career should want/need a "way out" and refuse to support efforts to bring modern technology, advanced academic classes, coding and the like to the schools. It puzzles me; it feels like we've gone from wanting better for the next generation to saying "if it was good enough for me, it is good enough for them".

 

[mjkacmom]

Only you can’t realistically get to them with public transportation.

Why not? There Is a ton. Heck, all of the boys from my town who end up going to private out of town prep schools take public transportation to school.

I could get there using public transportation.

 

[Colleen27]

The city I referenced has some excellent public magnet schools. There is only so much money, it should be spent wisely. There are public schools with only a 50% graduation rate, should they still offer dozens of AP classes and hire those teachers only for them to remain empty? I think it’s better to have magnet schools where those who wish to excel academically can flourish and be prepared for college.

The problem with that solution is that it tends to be exclusionary. I'm sure the rules for magnets vary from state to state, but in mine they don't have to provide transportation or food service or most special ed/academic support programs. So kids who don't have a parent who can drive to/from school, who need accommodations for issues like dyslexia or ADHD, who rely on free breakfast/lunch, they aren't helped by the booming magnet-and-charter "solution". And that, in turn, leaves the neighborhood schools with the kids who have the most challenges and with less funding to meet those needs.

 

[RamblingMad]

Why not? There Is a ton. Heck, all of the boys from my town who end up going to private out of town prep schools take public transportation to school.

I could get there using public transportation.

The closest magnet school from where I grew up was two trains and two buses. You’re talking over two hours of travel each way. That’s not a realistic solution.

 

[Colleen27]

The closest magnet school from where I grew up was two trains and two buses. You’re talking over two hours of travel each way. That’s not a realistic solution.

And it can be even worse in rural or suburban areas and in cities without mass transit. I'm a lifelong metro Detroiter and have lived in the city, suburbs and on the rural/suburban fringe. Relying on city buses here is a good way to get fired or deemed truant, because buses that run late or just never show up isn't unusual. And charter/magnet schools tend to have behavioral contracts that allow them to drop students for chronic tardiness or excessive absences.

 

[kdonnel]

And that is a HUGE problem for kids from low-performing schools. It is hard enough to afford college when the max Pell grant is $6000ish and a year of college costs $20K without adding a semester or two of remedial classes just to get up to college level".

College can be expensive but it can also be remarkable affordable.

The cost to attend one of Georgias "second tier" state colleges, Kennesaw State, UNG, Georgia State, etc, is around $6500 a year, tuition and mandatory fees.

The killer cost of college is room and board. If there is a school within commuting distance of home, college with Pell grants is within reach of most.

 

[spiders]

College can be expensive but it can also be remarkable affordable.

The cost to attend one of Georgias "second tier" state colleges, Kennesaw State, UNG, Georgia State, etc, is around $6500 a year, tuition and mandatory fees.

The killer cost of college is room and board. If there is a school within commuting distance of home, college with Pell grants is within reach of most.

All of Georgia's colleges are relatively affordable plus many qualify for HOPE. For those who don't know, if you graduate with a 3.0 GPA in high school then your tuition is pretty much free to any Georgia public school. If you drop below 3.0 in college then you lose it. If you get it back above 3.0 then you will get it back for the next semester.

Georgia State is second tier but for tuition purposes, it is a research university and follows the same in-state tuition as Tech & UGA.

--

As for the original question, if Disney Parks were out of reach for the middle class then the parks wouldn't be bursting at the seams.

 

[siren0119]

Why not? There Is a ton. Heck, all of the boys from my town who end up going to private out of town prep schools take public transportation to school.

I could get there using public transportation.

There is a big difference between AVAILABLE and ACCESSIBLE. What matters is whether students from low performing schools can easily (and reasonably) access public transportation, without it being time or cost prohibitive. If they can't afford the bus pass they can't go to the magnet school. If they need to spend an hour plus each way traveling between school and home, they can't go.

 

[Colleen27]

College can be expensive but it can also be remarkable affordable.

The cost to attend one of Georgias "second tier" state colleges, Kennesaw State, UNG, Georgia State, etc, is around $6500 a year, tuition and mandatory fees.

The killer cost of college is room and board. If there is a school within commuting distance of home, college with Pell grants is within reach of most.

It really depends on where you live, and let's face it, for most lower-income families moving to a state with cheaper tuition isn't an option.

Community college in my county is around $5200/year for tuition alone. A Pell grant will only just cover tuition, fees and books for most students, and that's a two-year college. University tuition and fees are generally $13-15K/year at the second-tier public universities in Michigan... a number that is shockingly close to the sum of the max Pell grant, state supplemental grant AND federal student loan borrowing limit.

 

[mjkacmom]

College can be expensive but it can also be remarkable affordable.

The cost to attend one of Georgias "second tier" state colleges, Kennesaw State, UNG, Georgia State, etc, is around $6500 a year, tuition and mandatory fees.

The killer cost of college is room and board. If there is a school within commuting distance of home, college with Pell grants is within reach of most.

Ds21’s state school is $14,000 a year, there are no colleges in my state for $6500. While we have good public high schools, our public colleges are pricy, and give very little merit money.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I do not know what the answer is. Our state throws SO much money at the poorer districts, and nothing seems to change. Dd18 had an athletic scholars awards dinner for students in our county, a boy and girl from each high school. Each student was presented with their GPA’s, SAT/ACT scores, class rank, and where they were going to college. There was a huge disparity between the haves and have nots, with the exception of class rank. I have a friend who teaches in the next town where the schools are ranked much lower, and feels there is a lot less parent involvement.

I think your friend has a point about parent involvement (a balancing act where too little and too much are both problems) and that economics affect things in other ways as well. -

One I remember reading about had to do with vocabulary. There was a study tracking children at different income levels, and how many words they heard in a typical day. The differences in the amount and types of conversations they participated in at home were huge! It snowballs from there because the more words you know, the easier reading is, the more you get out of your lessons, etc.

Another has to do with opportunities outside of school. The more affluent kids tend to have more "pegs" - real life experiences that they "hang" classroom content on. For instance, a first grade class might read a story together about a child who goes fishing. The kids who have had the experience of going on vacation, going out on a boat, etc. feel more connected to the story. It sticks in their brains beyond class that day, because they connect it to something already in there.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I think your friend has a point about parent involvement (a balancing act where too little and too much are both problems) and that economics affect things in other ways as well. -

One I remember reading about had to do with vocabulary. There was a study tracking children at different income levels, and how many words they heard in a typical day. The differences in the amount and types of conversations they participated in at home were huge! It snowballs from there because the more words you know, the easier reading is, the more you get out of your lessons, etc.

Another has to do with opportunities outside of school. The more affluent kids tend to have more "pegs" - real life experiences that they "hang" classroom content on. For instance, a first grade class might read a story together about a child who goes fishing. The kids who have had the experience of going on vacation, going out on a boat, etc. feel more connected to the story. It sticks in their brains beyond class that day, because they connect it to something already in there.

This reminds me of something I once read that was talking about how test questions could be biased in their wording putting kids at an advantage or disadvantage depending on their backgrounds. One of the examples given was a word problem involving a “schooner.” Plenty of children wouldn’t be able to get the right answer based on the simple fact they wouldn’t even know what the heck a schooner was.

 

[LSUmiss]

This is so true. I know quite a few people that get a lot of help from their wealthy parents whether it’s a car that has remained a part of the family business, parents that pay for family vacations, help with home improvements or even provide free daycare for the grandchildren. These things are huge parts of a budget. Even though these families make smaller salaries, they are able to “save” for things because their parents are footing the bill for major expenses or house emergencies that pop up.
Everyone’s circumstances are so completely different that it’s really hard to generalize whether or not a specific class can afford it.
However, Disney can be affordable for many families since there are options for a variety of budgets.

I have a cousin who’s parents are very very wealthy. A few years ago my aunt told me my cousin was “very good & savings her $$”. Yeah b/c my aunt & uncle pay for EVERYTHING for her family even day-to-day things like groceries.

 

[LSUmiss]

Well, in the poor area I referenced, the high school grad rate is 73%, so I would put less emphasis on college prep.

So that 73% who do graduate would be at an even greater disadvantage than they already are

 

[LSUmiss]

Why not? There Is a ton. Heck, all of the boys from my town who end up going to private out of town prep schools take public transportation to school.

I could get there using public transportation.

Who pays for it?

 

[okeydokey]

I don't know either, and I suspect that the answer in one place won't be the answer in another so one or the other won't end up implemented thnks to our tendency to look for top-down solutions.



And that is a HUGE problem for kids from low-performing schools. It is hard enough to afford college when the max Pell grant is $6000ish and a year of college costs $20K without adding a semester or two of remedial classes just to get up to college level".



It isn't. My husband is a tradesman and my son is apprenticing in a trade. I don't have a problem with that path, but just like college, it isn't for everyone. And the demographics of one's birth shouldn't be destiny. The hostility/testiness of those in the trades, who see any argument in favor of a college prep path as an implication that the trades aren't "good enough", is part of the problem in districts like mine - rural, blue collar, working class, and chock full of tradesmen of varying degrees of skill who resent the idea that bright kids with an interest in college or a degree-dependent career should want/need a "way out" and refuse to support efforts to bring modern technology, advanced academic classes, coding and the like to the schools. It puzzles me; it feels like we've gone from wanting better for the next generation to saying "if it was good enough for me, it is good enough for them".

So true. I am amazed at the number of people in the US who actually look down at those wanting or obtaining a college education. It’s baffling.

 

[maxiesmom]

So true. I am amazed at the number of people in the US who actually look down at those wanting or obtaining a college education. It’s baffling.

Maybe it depends on the area. Where I am the people who work trades seem to be the ones looked down on. And yet I know more people with college degrees that don't use them than do use them.