Are Disney parks no longer for the Middle class?

It’s not about affordability. It’s about value for your money. Right now WDW is not a good value for your money given alternatives.
That's what I meant about it being an "opinion." They're not priced out, they just choose to spend their money elsewhere.
That said, your last statement is pretty much the point of the OP, and my point as well. Folks can't afford to go when the prices are far outpacing real inflation and wages...or they're putting themselves into debt to do it (which to me is crazy).
The assumption here is that people were stretched to their max at prior pricing. Based on how crowded the parks are and booked the hotels are, people have not been priced out. The beauty of capitalism.
 
That's what I meant about it being an "opinion." They're not priced out, they just choose to spend their money elsewhere.
That is kind of a definition of "priced out" I would use for it. The cost has exceeded alternatives and thus is priced out and one goes elsewhere.

The assumption here is that people were stretched to their max at prior pricing. Based on how crowded the parks are and booked the hotels are, people have not been priced out. The beauty of capitalism.
I agree, except that it is my belief that previously there were more doing a Credit Card Disney than not and the parks are still packed because those people are just putting more on a credit card. That is the problem with Capitalism, is the false part of the economy. More people going to Disney, other vacation, buying cars, sounds like a good thing for the economy, but then throw the metric of people are just putting more debt on the CC or heck, our next step is 9 year car loans, I can't even imagine doing that... Now the consumer part of Capitalism is failing pretty good.
 
I agree, except that it is my belief that previously there were more doing a Credit Card Disney than not and the parks are still packed because those people are just putting more on a credit card. That is the problem with Capitalism, is the false part of the economy. More people going to Disney, other vacation, buying cars, sounds like a good thing for the economy, but then throw the metric of people are just putting more debt on the CC or heck, our next step is 9 year car loans, I can't even imagine doing that... Now the consumer part of Capitalism is failing pretty good.

When my significant other went car shopping, the F&I guy came out with a 84 month term as the default. Blew my mind.
 


That's a fair statement, however your use of "settle for" speaks to the way trade school (and community college) is viewed IMO.

Fair enough. I really should have been more specific in my wording - my complaint is that high-achieving kids in blue collar communities so rarely have access to the opportunities it would take for them to compete with equally talented peers from more affluent communities, so they are forced to settle for less than they want and are capable of. That's the shame of it, not the path itself but the fact that it isn't freely chosen; university can also be settling, for a kid who is passionate about a trade but comes from a place where it going away to school is just a given or who attends a school that boasts their 100% university attendance rate and actively discourages the trades/community college/military service to maintain that bragging right.

I don't think there's One. Right. Path. for everyone. The trades are right for some. Community college is right for some. But university, even elite university, is also right for some. And it is a shame that *any* student has to settle for a path that isn't right for them because it is the path that their local school system prepared them for.

When my significant other went car shopping, the F&I guy came out with a 84 month term as the default. Blew my mind.

It has gotten crazy, hasn't it? We don't buy new but we decided to buy late-model used this time because the quality of cars in our cash price range was so disappointing, and the starting point for financing at our dealership was 60 months... on a car that was already four years old. I can't see any world where that's a good idea, but it felt especially bad in light of how many miles I put on in a year. We paid it off last year and I don't anticipate having to replace it for 2-3 more... but I do have almost 200K miles on it now, so that five-year loan would definitely have been iffy.
 
That is kind of a definition of "priced out" I would use for it. The cost has exceeded alternatives and thus is priced out and one goes elsewhere.
I agree but I was talking about an individual instead of the business.

I would consider an individual priced out of something when they can't afford it.
I would consider a business priced out of something when they are not price competitive.
 
Regardless of what Disney used to cost (because I agree, it's horrifying when you compare the components and entire trip to even just a few years ago), I think it's not out of line with other premium entertainment options.

I think that's what gets lost in conversation sometimes. People compare a trip at Disney to trips that do not involve paying admission to a premium entertainment venue daily. This is where the comparisons to cruises, beach vacations, all inclusive, even some overseas trips falls apart IMO. Think how costly it would be to spend a week going to a major sports league games or concerts once a day (and those are shorter than a full day of park hours), eating all your meals at the venue, and staying in a nice hotel that is located conveniently to the venue, buying merchandise, etc. That wouldn't be too far off from Disney, IMO, especially if you go to the top end teams/venues to keep it comparable to a vacation at what is basically the top theme park destination. Most people just don't do these things daily for a week so the costs don't add up the same way.

A middle of the road ticket to my city's NHL team, at season ticket holder cost, is more than we pay a day for Disney. The food cost is comparable to Disney's quick service restaurants. Merchandise is just as expensive. Premium entertainment is expensive. A movie ticket here costs approximately 20% of a day at Disney on our multi day tickets. 2 hours of entertainment. It's all gotten crazy.
 


Regardless of what Disney used to cost (because I agree, it's horrifying when you compare the components and entire trip to even just a few years ago), I think it's not out of line with other premium entertainment options.

I think that's what gets lost in conversation sometimes. People compare a trip at Disney to trips that do not involve paying admission to a premium entertainment venue daily. This is where the comparisons to cruises, beach vacations, all inclusive, even some overseas trips falls apart IMO. Think how costly it would be to spend a week going to a major sports league games or concerts once a day (and those are shorter than a full day of park hours), eating all your meals at the venue, and staying in a nice hotel that is located conveniently to the venue, buying merchandise, etc. That wouldn't be too far off from Disney, IMO, especially if you go to the top end teams/venues to keep it comparable to a vacation at what is basically the top theme park destination. Most people just don't do these things daily for a week so the costs don't add up the same way.

A middle of the road ticket to my city's NHL team, at season ticket holder cost, is more than we pay a day for Disney. The food cost is comparable to Disney's quick service restaurants. Merchandise is just as expensive. Premium entertainment is expensive. A movie ticket here costs approximately 20% of a day at Disney on our multi day tickets. 2 hours of entertainment. It's all gotten crazy.
I don't compare my Disney trips to other types of trips and events.

A beach vacation has different components to it than a theme park trip a lake trip has different components than both of those, a history vacation has different components than all those as well.

And all other events like a concert or sporting event doesn't compare either well unless you count that beer probably costs the same as it would at Disney lol.

As far as season tickets well the comparison there IF you have to compare would be Disney's highest AP tier because aside from post-season your season ticket to your sporting team should be including tickets to all the games just like the highest AP tier for Disney would include admission each day with no blackouts. What a cost per day is won't really matter there. But to me (and I know I'm just speaking about me personally) it won't make sense to compare because season ticket pricing for sporting teams often vary based on where you want to sit but you'll still get access to the game.

It just never made sense for me to compare them all the same because they don't comprise of the same things. I compare my Hawaii, St. Lucia and Jamaica trips because those were all beach vacations. I compare my WDW/USO/DLR trips together. And so on.

I fully admit when it comes to the Boards I'm in the minority in this line of thinking though.
 
I don't compare my Disney trips to other types of trips and events.

A beach vacation has different components to it than a theme park trip a lake trip has different components than both of those, a history vacation has different components than all those as well.

And all other events like a concert or sporting event doesn't compare either well unless you count that beer probably costs the same as it would at Disney lol.

As far as season tickets well the comparison there IF you have to compare would be Disney's highest AP tier because aside from post-season your season ticket to your sporting team should be including tickets to all the games just like the highest AP tier for Disney would include admission each day with no blackouts. What a cost per day is won't really matter there. But to me (and I know I'm just speaking about me personally) it won't make sense to compare because season ticket pricing for sporting teams often vary based on where you want to sit but you'll still get access to the game.

It just never made sense for me to compare them all the same because they don't comprise of the same things. I compare my Hawaii, St. Lucia and Jamaica trips because those were all beach vacations. I compare my WDW/USO/DLR trips together. And so on.

I fully admit when it comes to the Boards I'm in the minority in this line of thinking though.

The season ticket comparison I brought up is because it's the cheapest per game cost. The face value on that seat (what someone would pay with no commitment), compared to a ticket to Disney, has Disney looking like a downright bargain. 3 hours of hockey is just about the same as a one day park ticket. My point being that premium entertainment is expensive across the board. I almost choked when I found out what my mom paid to see Elton John last year, sorry Elton John fans lol. Taking my family of 5 to a movie is ridiculous.

I agree with you, that you can't start comparing vacation to vacation because they rarely all contain the same kind of thing. Compare top of the line entertainment costs in different categories to a top of the line theme park (Disney), and I think it's all pretty similar.

None of this means I won't rant about the insanity of charging $60 for a mediocre buffet or $800 a night for a regular hotel room lol.
 
I agree but I was talking about an individual instead of the business.

I would consider an individual priced out of something when they can't afford it.
I would consider a business priced out of something when they are not price competitive.

An individual can buy whatever they want as long as someone is willing to give them the cash. Another way to think about is: what can an individual afford without access to credit?
 
I think when a middle class person as myself HAS ( not wants) to plan a Disney trip years in advance just to be able to afford it , yes they are pricing middle class people out. I have about gave up on planning, would rather pay less and go on a cruise .
 
The wife and I went every year to WDW, twice some years since we got married until 2 years ago. Our last trip was Dec of ‘17 and we have no plans to go back currently, the cost has just gotten ridiculous, with all the advanced planning, it’s just to much for the entertainment value that we feel we receive. We rented a cabin for five (we took my niece, they paid for her) but it cost us almost $4,000 for 4 nights/4 days with dining. This past February we went to the zoo in Chattanooga, bought tickets $40 total for 2 adults, 2kids, and an infant. We then left the zoo, souvenirs were $30 max, we then had diner at a local brewery/steakhouse for around $80 total for all of us, my (then 7yr old) daughter got up and danced with the waitress so the service was similar to the Disney experience, after this we returned to the hotel for a swim, the wife and I enjoyed a cocktail. Total for that day, $350-400 after tax and cocktails, for the entire family of five, and yes the next day we had entertainment very similar We went to the aquarium and the Creative discovery Museum, neither were as expensive as WDW. We’ve taken other similar trips just like this and it’s made us realize that (to the OT) Disney has priced itself out of our middle class income. I can find entertainment elsewhere, without sacrificing the other 355 days of the year.
 
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I guess it all depends on how you travel. We go once a year or so. We are solidly middle class. We do live in an inexpensive area. We bought the cheapest house in the nicest neighborhood. We rarely eat out. We drive basic but newer cars. We do all our home renovations and most repairs ourselves. We are frugal.

The reason we are frugal is we like to travel. From my signature you can see we have a large family. Traveling with the kids was expensive, most are out of the house now, so we just travel to visit them where they live. We always traveled when they were young. Not so many Disney trips but we've done 5 as a whole family. We camped in our own travel as it was the cheapest way but still very comfortable. Our kids are used to camping because we've camped all over the country. Once again that is based on our frugalness.

Now that it's fewer of us in the family we travel a little differently. Flights are reasonable. We book cheaper airlines and travel light. We still splurge a little on hotels especially at Disney. We are older now and know what we want in a room. This is our first year trying out DVC rental. We travel during off season. We get groceries for our rooms and don't do a lot of extras.

Honestly we still get the whole Disney experiance.

A couple years ago my daughter and I booked a free dining trip. It was great except that we both realized we aren't table service people and the DDP is way too much food for us. I'm glad we did that trip though and all the character meals because it showed us that our usual WDW trips were exactly how we liked them.

I know this is long but basically you can do a relatively affordable trip at WDW. You don't need all the extras to make it special. Just set a budget and stay within it. Make travel and vacation a priority and it can happen. Maybe not every year but it is doable.
 
I guess it all depends on how you travel. We go once a year or so. We are solidly middle class. We do live in an inexpensive area. We bought the cheapest house in the nicest neighborhood. We rarely eat out. We drive basic but newer cars. We do all our home renovations and most repairs ourselves. We are frugal.

The reason we are frugal is we like to travel. From my signature you can see we have a large family. Traveling with the kids was expensive, most are out of the house now, so we just travel to visit them where they live. We always traveled when they were young. Not so many Disney trips but we've done 5 as a whole family. We camped in our own travel as it was the cheapest way but still very comfortable. Our kids are used to camping because we've camped all over the country. Once again that is based on our frugalness.

Now that it's fewer of us in the family we travel a little differently. Flights are reasonable. We book cheaper airlines and travel light. We still splurge a little on hotels especially at Disney. We are older now and know what we want in a room. This is our first year trying out DVC rental. We travel during off season. We get groceries for our rooms and don't do a lot of extras.

Honestly we still get the whole Disney experiance.

A couple years ago my daughter and I booked a free dining trip. It was great except that we both realized we aren't table service people and the DDP is way too much food for us. I'm glad we did that trip though and all the character meals because it showed us that our usual WDW trips were exactly how we liked them.

I know this is long but basically you can do a relatively affordable trip at WDW. You don't need all the extras to make it special. Just set a budget and stay within it. Make travel and vacation a priority and it can happen. Maybe not every year but it is doable.
I think the biggest complaint, though, is how high & fast prices have risen. We go multiple times a yr & have APs. We still set a budget & stick to it (mostly). But, now, what we get for that is far less than it used to be. We have bumped down to Pop from Poly & go on shorter trips & go less often. Yes we can still afford to go, but we are spending about the same per yr that we used to spend staying at Poly, going more often & staying longer. So I assume those who were already staying at Pop b/c it’s all they could afford have probably been priced out.
 
I think the biggest complaint, though, is how high & fast prices have risen. We go multiple times a yr & have APs. We still set a budget & stick to it (mostly). But, now, what we get for that is far less than it used to be. We have bumped down to Pop from Poly & go on shorter trips & go less often. Yes we can still afford to go, but we are spending about the same per yr that we used to spend staying at Poly, going more often & staying longer. So I assume those who were already staying at Pop b/c it’s all they could afford have probably been priced out.

I do agree prices have risen fast. Unfortunately that's not just Disney. That is pretty much everywhere on everything.
 
I agree with you, that you can't start comparing vacation to vacation because they rarely all contain the same kind of thing. Compare top of the line entertainment costs in different categories to a top of the line theme park (Disney), and I think it's all pretty similar.
I disagree because I don't view it as premium entertainment. I simply view Disney as another vacation destination. To me it isn't any different than a beach vacation, vacation traveling for historic and scenic locations, vacation on a cruise, or vacation at a tropical resort. They are all vacations and Disney has far risen above all of them in cost.

My 2010 Disney trip cost about the same as going to the beach for a week, which we did the following year. The difference was the extra distance traveled measured in fuel costs. Both just vacation destinations to me. Today I can do that same beach week for about $500 more but Disney would cost me 3 times more than it did in 2010.
 
I have to agree that DISNEY is pricing itself out of the lower and middle range of the middle class. My last cash trip 2011 to WDW with 3 room 7 adults magic your way and dining plan at Coronado was over 10K. It convinced us that we needed DVC.

When I see Disney charging for parking on top of room rates for guests staying at resorts, rising tickets prices, food costs, I have to ask myself as a Disney stockholder how are families going to be able to afford. When I express our love of MOST things Disney the feed back that we get is exactly that how expensive it is.

It all seem counter to Walt's original dream when he built Disneyland.

My 2 cents
 

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