Why I don't think Contemporary will go DVC

[spiceycat]

in that case why the link from the new building to the 4th floor - if this is for conventions - then a link to the 2nd floor would be better.

besides if it was this - Disney would have a grand opening to announce to the public to get convention planner to reconsider the CR.

as long as Disney says nothing - it is probably a DVC resort.

aren't most convention planing being done now for 2008 or 2009? They would want the planners to notice this building and be sure to make plans for 2009 or 2010 when they could use it.

 

[Anthony1971]

in that case why the link from the new building to the 4th floor - if this is for conventions - then a link to the 2nd floor would be better.

besides if it was this - Disney would have a grand opening to announce to the public to get convention planner to reconsider the CR.

as long as Disney says nothing - it is probably a DVC resort.

aren't most convention planing being done now for 2008 or 2009? They would want the planners to notice this building and be sure to make plans for 2009 or 2010 when they could use it.

some are very organized but most
I guess somone could call up CR and ask about 2009 convetion rooms and ask about suites and this rumor could be confirmed or denied.....
I would love to see some DVC at CR but I know there were plans to build suites closer to MK that was put aside after.... (from NY) anyway it just seems CR is a cash cow everyone wants to stay there... when you think deluxe and do not knwo Disney that well CR is the place to be.....
I would more agree with part DVC but does this make sense considering what is going on with the smaller resorts now.....

 

[tjkraz]

I still think that if the CR North Tower isn't going to be DVC, Disney would have announced/promoted it already like they have with every other new resort. Why the big mystery? I think the Florida timeshare laws are preventing any announcement.

There are no Florida timeshare laws that prohibit announcements of pending projects. DVC has announced projects before even breaking ground. In one case (Eagle Pines) they announced a resort and later cancelled it.

The primary restrictions would be that they have to make it clear that announced properties are merely "proposed" to exist until they actually do exist, and they cannot start selling points until construction has reached a certain point.

I agree it's curious that Disney has not made any announcements, but not unprecedented either. Particularly since Bob Iger took over Disney has remained mum on a number of projects until they were good and ready to announce. Construction on recent attractions like the Nemo ride at Epcot and the Laugh Floor were well under way before Disney officially announced them to the public.

 

[tjkraz]

I'll also add that I think it's fair to say that not all convention groups are created equal. A couple months ago I attended a conference at Portafino Bay. The conference agenda included meetings that wrapped-up by 11:30am on one day and we all then took a scheduled group trip to Islands of Adventure for a behind-the-scenes event. Families were more than welcome to attend and there was a published charge for those whose families wanted to join us for the behind-the-scenes thing, too.

The Contemporary isn't a cheap convention destination to begin with. When you've got professional organizations holding meetings there, including members with incomes well into six figures, they aren't going to care a whole lot about the cost of the room. That's particularly so if the trip is serving multiple purposes: professional gathering, time away from the office, entertain the spouse and kids. If you can write-off the convention participant's airfare, room and some meals as business expenses, so much the better.

I still have no idea whether the rooms will be DVC or not--perhaps Disney hasn't even decided yet--but either approach has a great deal of logic to it.

 

[DisDaydreamer]

Can you back up your argument?

How about saying something like.....

"Though the convention buisness is good for WDW and they would like to have better facilities, DVC is a great upfront cash grab for the Disney portfolio. If it sells quickly, then that will be millions in the bank. then with the maint. dues paying for monorail upkeep it will be a win for everyone.

they could always build suites for the convention and then as that need decreases, they could upfit for dvc just like AKL."

but i guess a simple "your wrong" will only do.

I think wildernessdad was just voicing his opinion not making an argument.

 

[BuzzLightyearDad]

No question about it. It is DVC.

This has been stated already, but worth repeating. They are waiting for SSR sales to close out. Then it will be announced. It would otherwise affect sales.

If it isn't DVC, they would have already announced it, particularly if they wanted to drive convention traffic as conventions are planned at least 1-2 years in advance. No reason to wait.

People who think otherwise are in the same camp that swore the building was going to be refurbished. Which, of course, it would have been if it wasn't going DVC.

 

[BroganMc]

No question about it. It is DVC.

This has been stated already, but worth repeating. They are waiting for SSR sales to close out. Then it will be announced. It would otherwise affect sales.

If it isn't DVC, they would have already announced it, particularly if they wanted to drive convention traffic as conventions are planned at least 1-2 years in advance. No reason to wait.

People who think otherwise are in the same camp that swore the building was going to be refurbished. Which, of course, it would have been if it wasn't going DVC.

Based on everything I've seen and heard, I think this is the more likely scenario. Wasn't there supposed to be some announcement in Sep/Oct and Jan/Feb? Something the frog croaked about?

 

[spiceycat]

there will be an announcement in either Oct or Dec - what ever they consider end of year.

whether it will be CR or Hawaii or DL - is yet to be determined. remember the CR models that some people have seem might also work in DL.

that say I believe it is Hawaii

 

[tjkraz]

If it isn't DVC, they would have already announced it, particularly if they wanted to drive convention traffic as conventions are planned at least 1-2 years in advance. No reason to wait.

I can think of at least one very good reason to wait: If it is a non-DVC structure, then announcing it as such will have a negative impact on DVC.

Didn't someone once say that there's no such thing as bad publicity? Right now DVC is getting a lot of publicity from the rumor mill. I have little doubt that many people are hearing the rumors and thinking "ooh, the Contemporary...I'll just buy into AKV now and use my points there when it opens."

If they were to announce it as being non-DVC, they lose the buzz.

Public filings indicate that the new CR building will be under construction until the Fall of 2009, so they're not even within that 1-2 year window yet. Even if they were, I doubt Disney would be overly swayed by the impact on a few months' worth of convention bookings. That amount of time means little when considering a facility that would be earning revenue for decades to come.

 

[DVC Grammy]

What would be helpful is to infiltrate the group in charge of the Theater building at SSR, obtain a master key, and open up those "mystery doors" that contain the "future DVC models". Then our "agent" could post pictures on these boards and we could all speculate as to whether they look "Contemporary", or "Californian". (Of course, if they look Hawaiian, we have a dilemma.........are they really for Hawaii, or are they actually for the POLY! ).

See................I have too much time on my hands......................

 

[spiceycat]

I though it was the other model - you know the ones someone claimed was Pop - that was Hawaii?

Bright colors!

 

[nuts]

A CM at Cont told my DW in June that the construction was for DVC. Unsolicited, I may add.

Well, that settles the question.

 

[Anthony1971]

The Poly I would buy!!!!

In some ways it could make sense for DVC to be at a monorail resort as then it could attribute some of the costs of the monorail to the owners....

I think CA will be the next announcmen.... However DVC must be planning something to start opening up retail stores so they must know where the next florida location or??? will be....

 

[Monte Cristo]

I can think of at least one very good reason to wait: If it is a non-DVC structure, then announcing it as such will have a negative impact on DVC.

Didn't someone once say that there's no such thing as bad publicity? Right now DVC is getting a lot of publicity from the rumor mill. I have little doubt that many people are hearing the rumors and thinking "ooh, the Contemporary...I'll just buy into AKV now and use my points there when it opens."

If they were to announce it as being non-DVC, they lose the buzz.

snip

I am not sure I agree with your line of thinking regarding the negative publicity. Where is the buzz really coming from? Disboards and other public boards? Yes, but in the grand scheme of Disney visitors/buyers, we are a relatively small community.

I can say that for me, the where to add on thinking is exactly the oppisite of what you are referring to. With the possibility of Contemporary, I am actually not adding on anywhere until I know what the building is. If it does turn out to be totally non DVC, I will move on to add on at AKV or my current BWV. I don't think anyone is buying AKV strictly for staying at the Contemporary if/when it is built. I am not sure if that's what you were alluding to, if so, I don't think there are many at all thinking that way.

Losing the buzz at the Contemporary will only be filled by buzz for DL or Hawaii or whatever.....on and on it goes.

 

[Chuck S]

The new North Wing might be mixed use, but don't you think 15 stories would be way, way too many villas for a DVC stand alone bldg? Assuming it would have equal, or more, rooms than the existing tower. It will also need support items, like food services, small grocery store, laundry rooms fo studios...I should think it will need at least a fair percentage of rental units/suites (without kitchens) just to support the food services, considering most DVCers do at least a little cooking in the 1 bedroom and larger units. Unless they plan a relatively small restaurant and store in that building.(similar to Olivia's at OKW).

 

[OneMoreTry]

Disney might be OK but the convention planners and attendees are generally NOT OK with that!

CR's faclities are not sufficient anymore for the demands of Orlando conventions, it gets VERY few of the 'upscale conventions' A LOT of those are now at the Gaylord....

As an attendee, I can't imagine what would be the problem with the CR, but those things might not be obvious up front. It seems there must be some problems with CR because, as I mentioned, I go to quite a few meetings and have only had one opportunity to go to WDW (Swan and Dolphin -- yuck), which I was unable to attend.

What are you saying attendees are "not OK with" at CR?

Most of the big meetings I go to involve lots of walking -- Boston, Philadelphia, Denver, etc. Those convention centers are miles from most of the lodging. A monorail ride would be a piece of cake.

My "upscale meetings" have been fairly small and intimate at places that I don't think WDW cares to match for service and luxury -- ie. Ritz and Fairmont. Has anyone been to the Grand America in SLC?

I realize most people aren't Disney fanatics like I am. I don't care for Ritz -- makes me feel stiff. But then I'm not a planner, and it sounds like Disney doesn't cater to them very well.

 

[tjkraz]

I am not sure I agree with your line of thinking regarding the negative publicity. Where is the buzz really coming from? Disboards and other public boards? Yes, but in the grand scheme of Disney visitors/buyers, we are a relatively small community.

Many of the rumors seem to originate with WDW Cast Members like the one 'holcomb-mania' spoke to. Personally I think word of the DVC CR has grown to urban legend proportions at this point--CMs and guests are just repeating what they hear from other CMs or read on the Internet and accept it as fact. Whether there is any real truth to thr rumors remains to be seen.

I can say that for me, the where to add on thinking is exactly the oppisite of what you are referring to. With the possibility of Contemporary, I am actually not adding on anywhere until I know what the building is.

I'm sure there are others in a similar boat. But consider these two classes of people:

1. Current members who follow sites like this, are looking to add-on, and are waiting to hear about the CR before taking the plunge.

2. Prospective members who have toured SSR / AKV, like what they see, don't have any concept of booking non-home resorts at 7 months, and hear rumors that CR may eventually join the lineup of properties at which they can use their points.

Which group is larger? My money is on #2.

If it does turn out to be totally non DVC, I will move on to add on at AKV or my current BWV.

So they've got you either way. You're still buying points...it's just a question of when and where. And if prices happen to go up a couple more dollars before you buy, why golly that doesn't hurt Disney one bit.

I don't think anyone is buying AKV strictly for staying at the Contemporary if/when it is built. I am not sure if that's what you were alluding to, if so, I don't think there are many at all thinking that way.

No...just that it's one more reason TO buy into DVC. Icing on the cake, so to speak.

Hey, I never said it was the most compelling argument ever made. But someone asked why they wouldn't announce construction of cash rooms and I think there's some logic to this approach.

In many ways it astounds me the amount of conflicting information that Disney has let slip thru the cracks. We've got permits that use both the terms "Villas" and "Suites." We've got signage on the construction site. We've got model room doors (supposedly) left unlocked.

All this from the company that once bought tens-of-thousands of acres of land anonymously.

The popular line of thinking is that it's a DVC facility but Disney isn't ready to announce it yet. If I were a betting man, I'd still have to put my money on that option. But consider the opposite for a moment. As long as Disney (including DVC salespeople) doesn't give any actual yea or nay, they can just let people considering DVC soak up the rumors and draw their own conclusions. If it turns out to be non-DVC: "well, we never said it was going to be a DVC facility!"

Time will tell...

 

[MissMet]

CSR and Swan are both on-property convention centers. I think if Disney has the option of renting to 2,000 single convention attendees who will be in a conference all day and then will likely leave to go off-site somewhere to eat and network with their co-workers or 2,000 families of four that are going to buy 7 day park tickets, Dining Plan, and spend $$$$$ on Mickey baloons, ice cream, photopasses, hats, pins, etc - they'd rather have the families.

And yes, sometimes conference atendees can bring families - but not often. I had a conference @ WDW with schools that work and I could not have brought the family or done parks, and our youth minsiter went w/out family to CSR for a conference and did no parks. Most conference atenddes are not going to be pouring anywhere near the amount of $$$$ back into the parks that Disney wants.

I attended a conference at the Dolphin. They offered deeply reduced rates for up to 7 nights following the conference to go to WDW. Lots of the conference participants took the offer. Also, many brought their family & they enjoyed the parks while mom or dad was at the conference.

I am 50/50. I think it could go either way but I'm leaning towards it not becoming DVC. I think it will be family suites. DVC resorts don't need the monorail to sell the points. They already have enough of a draw. The can build a DVC resort in another state & it sells out, so I don't know if they'll do it. Plus if they are going to do both wings than that would only leave non-DVCers the option of the tower. Not a lot of rooms there. It really could go either way. Though, a DVC resort on the monorail would be a HUGE draw. Then again I don't think CRV would be big enough. My vote is...they'll eventually build...a new DVC monorail resort?? Oh, I don't know.

It really could just go either way. I'm hoping not, though. I love the Tower rooms & if CRV comes true no more tower room option unless I pay big bucks & I'm not for renting points.

 

[contempory4me]

As an attendee, I can't imagine what would be the problem with the CR, but those things might not be obvious up front.

Most of the big meetings I go to involve lots of walking -- Boston, Philadelphia, Denver, etc. Those convention centers are miles from most of the lodging. A monorail ride would be a piece of cake.

.

I've recently attended a conference in Denver and booked way early to get a room in the same hotel as the convention (or just across the street). I'm a big chicken and if I'm going to a strange city, I want my room in the same building as my convention. So I think more rooms at the CR would bring in more people.
Remember Disney makes loads of $$ on conference attendees, room rental, food, after 2pm park tix, extra nights, after conference hours, not to mention the AV- it cost me $75.00 extra for an extension cord !!

 

[tidefan]

I attended a conference at the Dolphin. They offered deeply reduced rates for up to 7 nights following the conference to go to WDW. Lots of the conference participants took the offer. Also, many brought their family & they enjoyed the parks while mom or dad was at the conference.

Not to get in on the conference debate, but I attended a very large conference in April at the Dolphin that also offered CSR as a lodging alternative. As CSR was about half the price as what the Dolphin was charging guess where the company wanted us to stay. I don't know about your companies, but mine likes for us to use the cheaper alternative. That was OK with us as we preferred CSR to the Swan/Dolphin. We ended up adding 4 extra nights at CSR (DW and DD came along).