Wheelchair abuse?

[SueM in MN]

We actually know people who did this (rented a wheelchair to skip the lines). My DH's ex-roomate (this was around 1996 or so) had been to WDW with his girlfriend. They bragged about how they rented a wheelchair every day and each day one of them would take a turn riding in the chair while the other one pushed to skip the lines. And that we should try it! I do not think so!! I am hoping that it is true that this is very very rare.

Sandra

When Epcot and MK were built, lines that were totally wheelchair accessible were very rare. Wheelchair accessibility was just not thought of that much at that time. Many of the attractions that were wheelchair accessible had a different entrance for people using wheelchairs. People who went to WDW with wheelchairs at that time were often skipping parts of lines.
When AK and the Studio were built, they were built with wheelchair accessible "Mainstream Lines" where everyone waits together in the same line.
Over the years, most of the lines at MK and Epcot have been changed to be Mainstream Lines also, so there is little "advantage" to using a wheelchair or ECV if you don't need it.

 

[Michigan]

You'd think so, wouldn't you? Maybe we're all just so beautiful that some people can't help but stare.

I found a t-shirt for my youngest daughter at Target this summer that says Ok I know I'm perfect now you can stop staring.

 

[lovetoscrap]

Everyone with you has good reason to want you to use an ECV. It will make the trip better for them, as they will (1) not be held back by your being slow and having to rest, and (2) not worrying about having to leave you sitting in the room in pain while they are playing in the parks.

Please ask the following questions. Here are the suggested answers to go with them.

1. Are you disabled (even temporarily)? Yes.

2. Do the people you are travelling with, such as your family, know you are disabled? Yes.

3. Do you expect to meet anyone you know during this trip who may not know you are disabled. Probably No!

4. Do you expect to meet a bunch of people who you will probably never meet again in your life? Probably yes!

5. Is there any reason at all that you should care what these people think about you? Absolutely No!!

6. Will using a wheelchair or ECV make for a better vacation for you and your family? Absolutely YES!

I LOVE this list. I had been fighting it, but now have resigned myself to it. I will be in an ECV in Nov and will have a great time. And hey, hopefully I can stay out longer because I won't get as tired as everyone else, right?

There MUST be something better to look at in Disney than someone on wheels.

Well, for us we get to look at BUTTS. And I can not tell you how much I am looking forward to your Butts around WDW report, complete with pictures.
Come on, you have to do it! You know you do! I can see the new section for badshoe already-- Bad Pantylines. . . Tell Zurg to get the webspace ready!

I have already told my friends that I am taking all butt shots of them the entire week! And if anyone stares or makes a comment I am getting a photo of their butt and letting them know I am posting it on the DIS! I don't get mad, I get EVEN!

LYMI!

 

[disneymarie]

When we have disabilities life gives us spoons...Everyday we start with spoons. If we shower and dress we use some of those spoons up, yet as we make a bite to eat, pick up we use some more.

The add to it a day in the park. Long walk to get in, or EVC/WC..how many spoons would each use.
Waits in lines with out use of GAC, or use the GAC and enjoy that ride how many more spoons would you use.

If you started your day with ten spoons how would you choose to use the spoons. If you have a family how much better would their day be to enjoy if you use up all the spoons by lunch and are done for the day, or do you still have half your spoons left until tonight.

If you ran out of spoons today and borrowed from tomorrow, how long would your enjoyable day be? Now you only have half the spoons you started with yesterday....

I found this explanation to my disabled but amblitory in the home daughter. I no longer allowed her to say to me, let me walk a few lines, only to have her ready to go back to the hotel, cranky, irratable, overheated, and exhausted.

The heat and humidity are issues to disabled, often unable to adjust coming from other parts of the country. Even winter going to Disney in the 88* and high humidity.

Our last trip there was no debate, the EVC was rented for the week. As 29 yr old she was independant. She could go to cafateria for a snack, to the pool and ride over to check me doing laundry. Even spend a full day at the park. BUT, she had to remember, if it is hot, if she is geeling fatigue, pace her day and request assistance from CM. It maybe down time in the aide center to cool down and drink gatoraide, It maybe Ice on ehr neck and wet towel on her head.

Just holding her arms out in front of her made them fall asleep, deep ache and send shocks from nerve compressions. She had level 7+ nerve pain everyday of her life...she used her spoons up early...But, we pay the same admission for her. Her lumbar back could end up in spasms in a near by medical center...her day was shot,
She over used her spoons. Not by intent, but perhaps the weather, perhaps the jostle on the rail road.

I use a rollator, herniations, RSD, and knee surgery's. I can sit in it, carry my cooler with water, my pillow for my arms to rest on, I do not "Look" disabled, but because of my daughters limits, I had to worry of her first.

What ended up happening, I became over heated, some rides at Universal.
I had to sit my daughter on my rollator and push her up the hills as the cast member asked her to park EVC if she could walk.

I nearly passed out from heat exhaustion doing the inclines of the Suess train ride...only to find out there was an elavator for non ablatory....Maybe she could stand, but we could not tolerate!

We did three attractions at UNiversal Island of adventure and the entire day was gone....
I found better assisatance at The reg. Universal park. I was able to take her in the speedpass lines, or handicap access lines. We did about 6-7 attractions. One she was allowed to stay on for two rides in a row...

No matter your abilities, or think you can endure....remember you still only have so many spoons, be conservative with them.
dianne

In Memory of my daughter who taught me so much that last trip Oct 07

 

[SandrainNC]

Thanks for that information SueM! I am just glad these are not people we associate with any longer.

And I would in no way ever judge anyone using a wheelchair because I know there are so many hidden disabilites. I only shared because I know personally (unfortunately) there are a few people who have abused the system.

I have even gotten a mean look at a companion bathroom (I only used one once and needed to in that particular circumstance) and it is very obvious that my son has Down syndrome! So I think some people are just gonna look mean!

Sandra

 

[SereneOne]

My daughter has VACTERL Association, also known as VATERS Association. It is an acronym for multiple birth defects. She has multiple holes in her heart/ASD (having heart surgery next year at MUSC), multicystic kidney...her other one is gone, rib/vertabrae anomalies, tethered spinal cord..surgery was a couple years ago, a feeding tube though she can eat by mouth and we are working with her along with a ST, Reactive Airway Disease, and did have hypoparathyroidism as an infant. She was also premature and she is a twin, her sister Emily died shortly after birth, her defects where too severe.

To look at her...that is Meghan in the pic, pushing me away with her face cause she is a superstar princess, lol...you would not think anything other than she is small for her age. Of course, if you saw her in her bathingsuit you would notice the surgical scars, the PEG tube, the lumps where ribs are missing and fused. We are getting a GAC for her and hopefully permission to keep her in her stroller in line. It is hard to explain...she has the energy of a pack of labador puppies but is a fragile child.

God help the person that makes a snide remark...you will hear about it in the news.

 

[lovetoscrap]

Sort of on topic with where this thread has gone:

I finally had to break down and get a temporary HC parking permit yesterday. I have been putting it off and putting it off telling myself that I really don't need or deserve it, but I am really mostly inconviencing DH or my kids when they have to push the wheelchair further or wait for me to hobble at my pace or cut a trip short because I was exhausted and in too much pain before I even got to the door. And then on vacation we had a huge problem because the only HC/wheelchair accesable entrance to the building was with the HC parking in a seperate lot. No HC tag, no parking in that lot

Now how many times as an able person have I maybe wanted, just for a split second, to park in that close spot while I just run in for a second, or because it was the only place left in a small lot, or it was pouring down rain and I had my 2 small children with me, etc. No, I NEVER took that spot, but you know everyone has that split second thought every once in a while.

Now I have that right. And I cried when they handed me the tag. And I cried all day yesterday. And I am crying now as I type this. I don't want to use that spot. I want to just park where I want to and walk as far as I need to.

On a good day people may see me get out of my car and probably won't notice my TENS unit on so they won't see that I do need that spot, and the ECV in Wal-mart that I have to use. I suspect I will be getting lots of dirty looks. Maybe I should bring my camera and take pictures of their backsides also

 

[LisaBi]

Veering slightly off topic in response to those comments from people who have no businesss.... One time when DS was about 2 1/2 we were in Taco Bell and I got a rash of **** from the cashier about the fact that he should be walking by now. I don't think I've ever been so irate! (He started walking at 3.)

We are in the world now, and for the most part people have been pretty good. We have gotten a few nasty looks when he hops up to get on a ride, or chooses to sit on the bench instead of his wheelchair at a show. But those same folks didn't see him earlier in the day, when after a trip on foot from the pool to the drink station to our room we was wiped out. (We are at ASMo and in building 10 on the end closest to the pool and food court!)

 

[muffyn]

I think i am going to print up one page sheets about my disability and illness, and whenever stupid people make comments, just give them the page with a smile, and say "here, educate yourself..."

!

 

[Pokeydino]

I normally don't post but I thought I would give some feedback on this issue.

My wife and I were in Disney 2 weeks ago. I found out the day before I left that I had a stress fracture in my foot. My doctor made me a deal that if I used an ECV and took pain medication I could wait until I return to get a bootie put on. As a person who has never had the need to use anything like this in the past I can give an objective opinion on the whole issue.

Anyone who thinks this is some great luxury is mistaken. For any benefit you may get in occasionally getting on a ride quicker it is far outweighed by the extra time that many other things take. I also could not figure out how an adult on an ECV is somehow absolutely invisible 90% of the time. There were numerous occasions where I would not use the ECV and just deal with the pain even though I had the ECV.

On top of that when you factor in the cost I have a whole new respect for people who really need to use these.

Just an objective opinion.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

Hi Pokeydino and to both DisBoards and the disABILITIES Forum. And for your kind comments. Now that you are here you will have to be active.

 

[luvyawdw]

I was involved in this discussion back in March . My suggestion, and I will repeat "suggestion" is that anyone can rent a Wheelchair at WDW, but they should require a DR note for a GAC if specail accomadations are needed. Meaning above what all other visitors receive. Im sure there are many visitors that are disabled that do not need any specail accomodations, however, there are many who do. I do believe a Drs letter could benefit everyone involved and reduce the number of cheaters by allowing them to spend the money on a wheelchair but require proof if they need special accomodations to obtain a GAC. I don't know the interpretation of the ADA law requiring proof, but it sounds like if you need more than equal acess you may need to have that proof. I do not feel it would put me out to go to my daughters Dr and ask him to explain her needs and how they may help accomodate them to keep her safe in the park, without actually giving a diagnosis, which I have been told here on this board that is illeagal? Anyway I do think there is a way to weed out the cheaters, and focus on making a disabled persons stay a little brighter.

 

[SueM in MN]

I do not feel it would put me out to go to my daughters Dr and ask him to explain her needs and how they may help accomodate them to keep her safe in the park, without actually giving a diagnosis, which I have been told here on this board that is illeagal? Anyway I do think there is a way to weed out the cheaters, and focus on making a disabled persons stay a little brighter.

It is not illegal for you (or anyone else) to offer your child's diagnosis. It is illegal under ADA law for them to require a diagnosis.

And, actually having a diagnosis doesn't really help that much in determining what the person's needs are. The ADA doesn't cover diagnosis or disability - it covers accomodations for needs related to the disability.
Whatever diagnosis you can think of, some people might have a lot of needs that require accomodation related to the their disability. Some people with the same diagnosis will not have any needs.

 

[kimysbug]

I was very worried that people would think mom is cheating.
No one really did. I had one comment when we took the bus from DTD some one was whinning on how long it took to get moms wheelchair- everyone else CMs & guests alike treated us amazing
We did have moms own wheelchair- It was mentioned to me that if you use your own wheelchair not a ECV guests & some CMs treat you better. I don't know if this is true or not.

 

[tigercat]

I did rent an EVC while at Disney this time. I really thought about it but it was my dh who made the decision. I can walk a little bit but after a day or two I can't walk at all. It was a hard walk from the car to the tram and then to the park that walking in the parks would have ment that I would have had to be by myself. I was so slow walking and using my cane that to ask the others to stay with me would have been mean. They wouldn't have been able to go anywhere. Renting the ECV meant that we managed to see quite a bit. I found that being in the ECV rarely ment that I went faster than the other line. In fact I found sometimes it was the opposite. Using my cane I tried to go the "normal" route as much as possible however standing is really hard on me. Sometimes I felt bad but really at the end of the day I was not in absolute pain. It was managably. Isn't that the important thing? I hope I didn't upset anyone by renting an ECV. It would have been faster it I could have walked it. Using an ECV is not as easy as some people think.
tigercat

 

[KPeveler]

you know what i realized? I was just going through some of the pics posted on the CB forum, and i did not see a SINGLE person in an ECV in any pictures! people keep complaining about scooter users, and yet I cannot find any of them in pics... so either there is a conspiracy to keep people in scooters from being photographed, or it is not nearly as big a deal as people say!

i think, personally, that people are just looking for something to complain about!

 

[TwoGriswolds]

Ha.. well that's one of the ironic things about being in a chair/scooter. Our height is about half "normal" so we miss seeing a lot of things at places like Disney that are pretty cool. Our view is very often a crowd of butts and feet (we won't mention the smells along with the sights here now will we??) The whole chair/scooter abuse topic postings seem to make a regular frequent cycle started by different names and somewhere in there comes the inevitable "you get to the front of the line"... which is so so so wrong. Even the issue of "first on the bus" (which is for safety) - don't forget it's also LAST OFF the bus -- and it's pretty hard to beat all those healthy running rope drop fans to the front of the turnstyles if you're last off the bus.
20,15, even 10 years ago there was a lot of front of the line or fronter and such but mainstream is here now .. and it's here to stay.. and that's a good thing for disabled and non... we all want to be 'normal'. It would be nice though if one day we won't have to miss some of the really cool pre-stories in the queue and such because we have to go to another entrance or something. But it's coming in time.

One of my favorite gifts given me is a bumper sticker that says "yes you can have my placard and parking space BUT you MUST take my disabilities and pain with them."
Which reminds me, for those who might not know of it... the website InvisibleDisabilities.org is great.

I love that shirt the mom told about "I know I'm perfect, you can stop staring now" too... awesome!

 

[missypriss19]

Love the bumper sticker and the t-shirt. My husband nearly fell out of his chair laughing

 

[luvyawdw]

It is not illegal for you (or anyone else) to offer your child's diagnosis. It is illegal under ADA law for them to require a diagnosis

And, actually having a diagnosis doesn't really help that much in determining what the person's needs are. The ADA doesn't cover diagnosis or disability - it covers accomodations for needs related to the disability.
Whatever diagnosis you can think of, some people might have a lot of needs that require accomodation related to the their disability. Some people with the same diagnosis will not have any needs.

My apologies I misunderstood, it was back in April or so that I was involved in this same conversation here on the boards. I remember having been given information about the legalities of "requiring" and "offering"
I had read in a Disney (unofficial) book that bringing a Dr.'s letter stating the disabled persons needs and not a diagnosis can be helpful.
Yes, I agree. I stated that I would not feel put out by asking our daughters Dr. for a letter explaining how to help accomodate our daughter and keep her safe in the parks, I would not offer a diagnosis, as I realize that a diagnosis is not all that helpful for the same reason you mention . Their are many variables to many disabilities and diagnosis. Therefore by explaining a persons needs related to accomodations in the park is helpful .........I believe, just my opinion, just speaking for myslelf

I was responding to the post about " wheelchair abuse" when I wrote this originally. Just offering discussion on this topic that seems to be a problem in the park.
I also agree with the disers that state sometimes you wait longer in a line with a wheelchair. So I guess for the visitors that are dishonest (about renting a wheelchair), no real perk s.
Anyway, I just wanted to clear this up, as I have stated before here, I am not a legal expert on the ADA laws. I was just offering my opinion on the topic of "wheelchair abuse in the parks" and how they may weed some of it out. I would not recommend requiring a Dr. letter to just rent a wheelchair or to have equal accomodations but perhaps if you need more than equal accomodations for your disability that are not required by law for them to put in place. But would be very helpful if they did. asking. Does this make sense?

 

[LadyLawyerInCA]

I've seen some of those shirts and other items available at cafepress.com , I got some autism awareness and lupus and other things there before, they're fast. I love that Invis Dis site you posted too, thank you , I know some people who really would get help from that I think.