What would you do

[Wishing on a star]

And, as is my usual here, I will not continue to respond to those who are just stirring the pot.

Maybe they are trying to shout-down others
Let them shout and argue with themselves.

 

[skyblue17]

And, as is my usual here, I will not continue to respond to those who are just stirring the pot.

Maybe they are trying to shout-down others
Let them shout and argue with themselves.

I am not trying to stir the pot. I am genuinely interested to hear how you view someone taking offense to something controversial as a potential sacrifice of a constitutional right. And if people chose to speak out more publicly, say by protesting the controversial item, how that is not also a right afforded to them by the constitution.

 

[LSUmiss]

I will answer for myself, it that had been me.... it would have been to rebel against censorship and the problem of Political Correctness.

Remember my hypothetical about displaying your State colors while in another State. The very idea that this would be considered so negatively and create a problem or issue, THAT is a problem.

The whole viewpoint that if somebody is different than me, I am right. I should confront. Prejudice and hatred.

But as much as I hate bama, the roll tide flag has not been historically associated with racism & slavery. So this is not just about school rivalries.

 

[luvsJack]

Ok, and you flew it anyway, and was it a problem? Did anyone care?



Of course! But this is really only a valid example if someone actually did something to you "down the road." One person saying "oh that flag might cause problems" isn't really indicative of anything. Is there a rash of judgement of the Georgia state flag that you're aware of?




If that shirt or sticker has language or a statement that reflects someone's views, seems like they are pretty okay with people taking those things into account when they are out in public, no? I'm a firm believer in that you get to choose how you represent yourself, as those representations are sometimes the only imprint you make on people you meet. People are free to represent themselves however they'd like, but complaining that people take something away from your representation seems kind of like choosing to be upset about something that you can just as easily let go.

We didn't personally experience any backlash but other's from our state did. Also, a few people that drove up after us (we had to be there a couple of days before the tournament, other family members came up later). They weren't attacked or anything but were treated less than friendly and the state flag was mentioned to them. My point is this, we were told that we could get some bad treatment because of a 5x7 flag tied to the car antennae and baseball everything all over the car. If another human being cannot reason out why that flag (which was NOT a confederate flag) was on that car, then they do not have any right to determine anything about me.

Sorry, I don't buy that. It is wrong to judge someone by one thing you see about them, whatever that thing is. A human being should not be represented by a shirt or a sticker or whatever. Find out who the person is first. I am not talking about something that has language on it, I am talking about a flag. One flag, nothing else. And do you feel ok for judging the kid who drives down the highway with a flag sticker on his truck only to find out he just bought the truck and the sticker was already there? Or how about the kid wearing the flag t-shirt, to find out his house burnt last night and the neighbor gave him the shirt? There are thousands of reasons not to judge someone by what you see.


And, of course, I am not talking about the items in the people in the OP's garage. Two of those items are very telling of the owners and having the three together more or less seals it.

 

[skyblue17]

Sorry, I don't buy that. It is wrong to judge someone by one thing you see about them, whatever that thing is. A human being should not be represented by a shirt or a sticker or whatever. Find out who the person is first. I am not talking about something that has language on it, I am talking about a flag. One flag, nothing else. And do you feel ok for judging the kid who drives down the highway with a flag sticker on his truck only to find out he just bought the truck and the sticker was already there? Or how about the kid wearing the flag t-shirt, to find out his house burnt last night and the neighbor gave him the shirt? There are thousands of reasons not to judge someone by what you see.

Despite finding these examples pretty extreme, I do mostly agree with you that you shouldn't judge someone fully on small and singular representations. But I do think that people should consider how they represent themselves to others IF they don't want those representations to inform people of their beliefs, personality, interests, what have you. You wouldn't be upset that people assume your family likes baseball, right?

 

[luvsJack]

Despite finding these examples pretty extreme, I do mostly agree with you that you shouldn't judge someone fully on small and singular representations. But I do think that people should consider how they represent themselves to others IF they don't want those representations to inform people of their beliefs, personality, interests, what have you. You wouldn't be upset that people assume your family likes baseball, right?

No but I would be if they assume something about us because of the state we come from.

The second example, pretty extreme. The first? Happens every day. You buy a used car, you buy the stickers or decals that are on said car/truck.

 

[LSUmiss]

It is called basic human rights and freedom of speech. That should NEVER, EVER, be sacrificed just because something might be controversial.
It really is that simple.
Perhaps it is clear that there are those, even those that have had to fight and die for something that was / is considered controversial, who just don’t get it.

Very sad.

You have the right to represent yourself however you see fit & I have the right to interpret that representation the way I see fit. So if you are comfortable with how others might perceive you, then knock yourself out.

 

[LSUmiss]

Please explain to me how someone saying they are offended sacrifices your freedom of speech. They aren't calling up the government to get the flag forcibly removed, are they? Why can't the person with the flag just stop being so upset about every little thing, ya know?

Exactly. You (collective) have the right under freedom of speech to call me the b word. That doesn’t mean I might not be offended by it. And, in a civilized society, it’s understood that you have that right but generally agreed upon that it’s offensive & impolite to talk like that to ppl.

 

[LSUmiss]

No but I would be if they assume something about us because of the state we come from.

The second example, pretty extreme. The first? Happens every day. You buy a used car, you buy the stickers or decals that are on said car/truck.

The thing I find odd is that you said you were driving from MS to GA? I don’t see a state in that route that would be shocked by seeing a confederate flag. Am I’m missing something?
ETA: doesn’t GA’s state flag also contain a confederate flag looking symbol?

 

[Colleen27]

If your last statement is meant toward the south: There is a certain sort of person that does have that attitude and that flag is one of many things that they may have but that isn't the only reason for it. And yes, it can be non-racist. To assume that it always has the same meaning to everyone is being very judgmental of someone before you even know them.

Actually, that was very specific to the people I know who fly it. We're a 4H family and a certain amount of "redneck" is unavoidable in those circles in rural Michigan, so I've had a few friendly conversations (seriously, actually friendly!) about why someone born and raised a thousand miles and a century and a half away from the Confederacy would choose to fly that flag on their truck/camper, and that's the explanation I've gotten most often. And both the Confederate flag and Betsy Ross flag are popular with people who identify with/support the worldview of the "3%ers", which is alarming in a different way but not particularly racist.

What I find interesting is that ppl find this so hard to believe. The more skeptical posters also seem to be the ones who routinely discount other instances of racism that have been brought up on other threads. I remember being challenged what I brought how many times I’ve heard ppl use the N word here. I think if you live in a less diverse area, you don’t see this kind of blatant display of racism so it’s hard to believe it exists. You might think you know your neighbors, but sometimes you really don’t.

I agree. It amazes me how readily some on this board challenge the existence of that kind of casual racism. I see and hear it around me fairly often. I think that comes from living in an area with little diversity and little social penalty for holding/expressing racist views out loud. Advocating violence would cross a line, but racism couched in "jokes" using offensive language is pretty acceptable still.

 

[wgeo]

My son came home the other day incredibly frustrated at how frequently his friends use the N word and make racist and sexist comments. To the point that my son has asked them to stop because it bothered him so much. These are what I would consider "good kids from good families". I think casual racisim is far far more prevalent than we realize.


And on a different note -the confederate flag is spoken of in relation to state flags and having a different meaning. I'm curious how many people fly their state flags, or even know what their state flags are? I've lived in quite a few states and I do learn some state mottos (NH's "live free or die" sticks out) but I can't remember ever knowing what the state flag looked like.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Do you all even read?
Should I quote myself where I said more than once that I personally would not present myself that way, and do not really like it. I think I also did say pretty directly that racism does exist.

I am one who would not let my child near that neighbors house.

Good gracious, the hate.
No doubt, even here, that prejudice and hatred does come from all sides
Carry on.
Keep it coming!

Wgeo, Yes, I think that most everyone here knows our State Flag, and can identify with it. (Except some of those who have moved here from outside this region). It is proudly displayed on many if not the majority of all flagpoles along with the U.S. flag

 

[skyblue17]

No hate here, I’m seeking to understand your point of view on this, generally and not speaking to you yourself presenting that way, especially since you’ve said that others don’t get it.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And on a different note -the confederate flag is spoken of in relation to state flags and having a different meaning. I'm curious how many people fly their state flags, or even know what their state flags are? I've lived in quite a few states and I do learn some state mottos (NH's "live free or die" sticks out) but I can't remember ever knowing what the state flag looked like.

Not directed towards the Confederate flag aspect but you'd have to be not paying any attention at all in school or paperwork or other things to miss our state flag because it's kinda all over and taught in school. I wouldn't expect those who don't live here or who just moved here to know what it looks like though. I would expect that to be the case for many people living in their respective states. If you moved around enough and frequently enough you may not notice as much though.

 

[luvsJack]

The thing I find odd is that you said you were driving from MS to GA? I don’t see a state in that route that would be shocked by seeing a confederate flag. Am I’m missing something?
ETA: doesn’t GA’s state flag also contain a confederate flag looking symbol?

I am not sure if Georgia is one of the ones that removed it or not. But I do know that this is when all the other states were changing their’s. MS voted to keep it. Perhaps Georgia was debating it at the time and that was the reason for the warnings.

We were a bit surprised too.

 

[luvsJack]

Actually, that was very specific to the people I know who fly it. We're a 4H family and a certain amount of "redneck" is unavoidable in those circles in rural Michigan, so I've had a few friendly conversations (seriously, actually friendly!) about why someone born and raised a thousand miles and a century and a half away from the Confederacy would choose to fly that flag on their truck/camper, and that's the explanation I've gotten most often. And both the Confederate flag and Betsy Ross flag are popular with people who identify with/support the worldview of the "3%ers", which is alarming in a different way but not particularly racist.



I agree. It amazes me how readily some on this board challenge the existence of that kind of casual racism. I see and hear it around me fairly often. I think that comes from living in an area with little diversity and little social penalty for holding/expressing racist views out loud. Advocating violence would cross a line, but racism couched in "jokes" using offensive language is pretty acceptable still.

No doubt at all that it exists. In fact every one here that put any doubt on this particular story has said that they are in no way saying it doesn’t exist. Nor have they said that there is no way the OP or the OP’s wife could have possibly met someone with these particular items. It’s THIS particular story they have doubt about. Also, everyone that showed any doubt ALSO stated what they do in this scenario.

 

[luvsJack]

My son came home the other day incredibly frustrated at how frequently his friends use the N word and make racist and sexist comments. To the point that my son has asked them to stop because it bothered him so much. These are what I would consider "good kids from good families". I think casual racisim is far far more prevalent than we realize.


And on a different note -the confederate flag is spoken of in relation to state flags and having a different meaning. I'm curious how many people fly their state flags, or even know what their state flags are? I've lived in quite a few states and I do learn some state mottos (NH's "live free or die" sticks out) but I can't remember ever knowing what the state flag looked like.

None of those states flew their flag?

Every courthouse, school, state government office, etc here flies the American flag and the state flag. Some of them have been removed during the times of flag debates but usually it settles down and they put it back up.

Personally I think we should vote on it again but so far we haven’t.

 

[Hikergirl]

And on a different note -the confederate flag is spoken of in relation to state flags and having a different meaning. I'm curious how many people fly their state flags, or even know what their state flags are? I've lived in quite a few states and I do learn some state mottos (NH's "live free or die" sticks out) but I can't remember ever knowing what the state flag looked like.

I've lived in 2 states, I have no real love for either so I never flew either flag, but I know what they look like.
I also know what Texas' looks like and Maryland's because for some reason that awful looking thing is plastered all over everything on the Ocean City Boardwalk
As far as any other states, don't have a clue what their flags look like but I do think it is odd to live in a state and not know.

 

[LSUmiss]

None of those states flew their flag?

Every courthouse, school, state government office, etc here flies the American flag and the state flag. Some of them have been removed during the times of flag debates but usually it settles down and they put it back up.

Personally I think we should vote on it again but so far we haven’t.

Yeah state flag a big thing here too. Flown almost everywhere. Ppl even put the logo on t-shirts & other things. Thankfully the pelican is not controversial though so it’s ok.

 

[wgeo]

None of those states flew their flag?

Every courthouse, school, state government office, etc here flies the American flag and the state flag. Some of them have been removed during the times of flag debates but usually it settles down and they put it back up.

Personally I think we should vote on it again but so far we haven’t.

I assume all those places flew the flag, but it still isn't something I ever noticed. I didn't spend pretty much anytime around government offices or schools during a lot of the moves and usually only stayed in places for 5 years or so, so I wasn't sure if it was just my experience or if people themselves in other states knew what their state flag was and had one at home to display.

I can't think of anyone that I know that displays a state flag, lots that display the US flag but no states. Maybe I'm an outlier.