Very disappointed withe the kid's programming

[wovenwonder]

Gina,

You will surely be happy with what disney has to offer for both family time and adult time - that is what sets disney appart from the rest --- having the option to choose .And since you have already researched what the kids program has to offer for your child by previewing the navigators - there shouldn't be too many surprises in store for you . Please be sure to post a report from the 'single parent' point of view when you return. I'm sure it would be very helpful to other single parents considering a Disney Cruise vacation.

 

[dmdeitz]

have no problem with the kids moving around the ship. The whole point of my initial comment was that my kids want variety. Disney seems to have relied on moving kids almost as a program in and of itself - sometimes leaving 1/2 hour blocks of time dedicated to that.

I'd like everyone to sit on the floor, cross your legs and imagine being on vacation... with a group of other kids you'd like to meet and some of whom you are already getting to know. Then remember that you can't talk to them for the next 10 minutes while they call off your and everyone elses name and go over the ruiles they have gone over several times already - you can't be checked out during roll call, when we move you around the ship and then when we take roll call at the next location (I'm not knocking the rules! My point is that and the roll call eats up 10s of minutes). And then walk single file through the ship to the next event.... Now sit down again and sit there quietly while they again call off your name and everyone elses. And no talking at this point also. Oh, lets remind you of the rules again - you can't be checked out during roll call, when we move you around the ship and then when we take roll call at the next location. Oh look. Now that we got where we are going, let's all sit back on the floor (did we get a chance to stand up?!) so we can take roll call in anticipation of the next event we will be going to on the other end of the ship.

I APPRECIATE THE HIGH LEVEL OF SECURITY / OVERSIGHT THAT DCL provides on the ship. But when that eats into the event times, I have to ask - is ALL that moving around necessary!?

KAB13: You asked = 'how the heck is DCL suppose to support both these extreme opinions....and everything in between". My answer solves that and the above issue - If each age group is that unweildy that roll call and moving the kids takes taht much time, why not break them into smaller groups? And / ormake the groups that move smaller by using my other idea - I still say that they shoudl let kids that want to veg out, be able to do that. And those that want an organized activity can do that too. Why can't a child stay in the Lab / Club? I'm all for that - let the kids decide. Those that want to veg can. And those that don't can do that too! The desks are manned all the time anyway, regardless of where any one group is.

I lost the links I had to the navigators taht people posted on the web - You could see for yourself that there are really large blocks of transition time . That just gets boring for my kids (maybe not yours).

Gina: As much as you are looking forward to adult time, so were my wife and I. At the same time, I didn't want that time at the expense of my kids having to endure the babysitting. But that is what the kids program amounted to. As someone said - it comes down to expectations. Yes, shame on us for having high expectations that Disney would know how to 'entertain' our kids. Because we did have high expectations that our kids would want to go into the club / lab for a couple hours at a time at least. We cancelled the mud room reservations because our kids didn't want to be in the babysitting (and I saw myself how lame it was and couldn't force them to go, so we could have fun).

 

[Lisa F]

I just want to say first off how much I am enjoying this thread. It's really interesting seeing everyone's various point of view on things, and for the most part people have been respectful of other people's opnions. That's why I wanted to offer mine.

First of all, Disney is about family vacations... but, I strongly disagree with the notion that family = mommy+ daddy + 2 kids. Although my husband and I don't have kids yet, we are still a family. We're a family who loves disney, therefore I think a DCL cruise will be perfect for us! We love disney style, disney architecture, disney entertainment, disney programs, disney service. I don't like to gamble so I won't miss that particular activity on board. Part of the reason I love disney so much is that they appeal to families of all types, including families that are only made up of adults.

Because disney appeals to all kinds of families, at all stages in their lives, I really applaud them for having things that are for adults only. They also have tons of stuff (both in the parks, and on the cruise) that are for kids only. You don't see adults getting all bent out of shape because they can't go down the mickey slide or have tea with wendy or a sleepover with goofy. There are just certain activities that are appropriate for different age groups... bars and nightclubs are adult activities, sleepovers with characters are kid activities.

Just because I love disney, doesn't mean that I want to be around kids 24-7. Frankly, disney would hold a bit less interest for me if I had to be. Of course I don't MIND being around other people's kids, or else I wouldn't go to disney at all, but sometimes are just more appropriate than others for kids and I relish the opportunity both to experience the magic through the eyes of the little ones around me, and have some fun times with just my husband. This whole debate rather reminds me of the debate that comes up every so often about the appropriateness of kids at pleasure island. At least Disney is a LOT more clear about what the rules are on the ship and I applaud them for that.

BTW, I don't think I'd mind having certain family nights at palo, but I'd be sure to avoid them if I had the choice. We purposely dine late at expensive restaurants at WDW to try to avoid cranky, screaming kids. While kids who are knee deep in the magic are wonderful to be around, kids who have OD'd on the magic are not!

Lisa

 

[Britt1975]

I don't want to get in a contest of who's right and who's not...because I honestly believe that everyone is just stating their own opinions...and that's one of those things that I love about living in the USA. But I do want to respond to dmdeitz's comment about the counselors repeating the rules after each roll call and move. I do volunteer work at an elementary school, and I can't tell you how frustrating it gets to me to listen to a teacher repeating the same rules over and over again. Even now at the winter break, halfway through the year, some kids still have to be reminded of the morning procedures. But the naked truth is that some kids don't listen, or don't remember...I find the latter especially true in the younger kids....they are on sensory overload and just can't remember everything. So by repeating the rules every time they move, I believe, serves two purposes. #1 It reminds those who may have forgotten or weren't really listening the first time and #2 It reinforces that the rules are the same no matter where they are on the ship. I'm sure that your kids are great, and that they probably heard the rules the first time, filed them and then got annoyed every time they were repeated. I'm sure that my daughter was probably the same way. Then again, she never mentioned any problems with the moving or the roll call...so she was probably one of the kids who needed to be constantly reminded.

As for kids vegging in the lab instead of the activity or vice/versa, that would mean that the counselors were spread too thin or that they had to hire more. Not a bad idea, but it will just increase the cost of the cruise. And as I pointed out earlier....I believe that the activities are limited so that kids won't have to feel like that are missing something "important" because mom and dad want to spend some time with them. If you have "activities" from the time the club opens until the time it shuts down....then you would cause some kids to feel like they were missing out on stuff, or make parents feel like they had to leave their kids in the club all day. Anyway....these are just my answers and opinions to the things that Dmdeitz said. The thing is, I had to drag my daughter out no matter what they were doing. She never wanted to leave, so I can't imagine that other kids didn't love it. But I know that isn't the case, and I'm sure that it had to do with age differences and other issues that rise from the fact that we live in a free country and we are allowed to have different likes and opinions.

 

[Gina]

Originally posted by dmdeitz
Gina: As much as you are looking forward to adult time, so were my wife and I. At the same time, I didn't want that time at the expense of my kids having to endure the babysitting. But that is what the kids program amounted to.

Well, it's not that I have lower expectations of the kids programs on DCL... and it's not that I would approve of mere babysitting when they could do more (and *do* do more, from what I can gather from the Navigators.) But you have to understand, he is with me 24/7. Every single day. No breaks. I am not going to let his boredom threshhold come before my own sanity. Of course, if they get to "hack on computers," as somebody put it, I won't even see him for a week.

Seriously, I *need* this time to relax/socialize/decompress... He and I are a team, and we do tons of fun stuff together and go lots of places. He thinks every kids gets to go to WDW a couple times a year. But this will be the first time that I get time to myself, and I am SO thankful to DCL for allowing me to be able to have that.

-gina-

 

[mollyw]

My family had a great family vacation but there was not a lot of adult-only time that I looking forward to. My kids are out-going kids who make friends easily and we even travelled with another family. However they wanted to hang out with us and swim and go to shows. THat's great...but I had hopes of more sit in a chair and read time. (i'm a stay at home--I have plenty of time with them.) My son was mad when we went to a movie (Monsters) instead of a real show. They never requested to go to the o. club but usually had a good time when we dropped them off for something necessary. DS3 refused to be dropped of at Castaway Cay but that's another story. (trip report page)
My point is if you get your expectations up about thinking this will be an awesome adult time you may be disappointed. Do I blame disney? of course, but only because they made everything else on the ship so wonderful that my kids didn't want to miss it.

 

[dmdeitz]

Gina: I hope you can get the time you want and deserve. PLEASE be sure to come back here and let us know your and your son's opinion of the kid's program! All the best!

 

[Gina]

Originally posted by dmdeitz
Gina: I hope you can get the time you want and deserve. PLEASE be sure to come back here and let us know your and your son's opinion of the kid's program! All the best!

I definitely will!! Everyone's comments and reports have been so helpful... I feel WAY more prepared for our cruise than I would have without this board. I'm sooooo ready to go NOW!!!

-gina-

 

[wdwobsessed]

Hi all.

I have only been on one cruise - Carnival - of which I was less than enchanted with. For that one, my two kids stayed with grandma becuase it was a sales incentive cruise that DH earned at his sales job and only covered the two of us.

We are looking foward to doing the 4 day cruise in August or Sept 2002. having a 6 and 2 year old ... I was very interested in this thread.

I read everyone's complaints ... and rebuttles ...ect.

I own an extensive dance program for children. I teach classes of 10 - 16 kids ages 3 up to 16. In the past I have also worked for day care centers / learning centers / preschool programs / camps ..ect. If it involves children, I have probably done it.

Even with reading all the posts. I cannot figure out why eveyone is so upset with the clubs. Let me take the prominent complaints one by one ...

Not enough activities for the kids - OK ... in every singe (at that's at least 1/2 dozen) child centers / camps ect that I have worked at ... there is A LOT of free time scheduled. Most kids need it.

MOST 3 and 4 year olds DO NOT have the attention span nor desire to do multiple activities. They would rather run around, climb on equipment and play with leggos. An occasional activity is ok with them ... so I would think maybe 2-3 "scheduled" activities would be perfect. If you think your child at that age can handle more .. maybe you are right ..but are you really sure? If you think they are doing more than that at pre-school you are probably mistaken. I know that any school I have worked at almost the entire morning is free time play. This is where kids feel most comforatable. It is very difficult for kids this age , manytimes, to join a group activity. They are just learning "interactive" play at this age.

OK next age group say 5-8 year olds. These kids are in school for 3/4 of the year doing "structured" activities. My son just started full day kindergarten in the fall and he would much rather play then do something structured. In the camps / programs I have worked in you would see a few more activities ... maybe one art project / one sports game / and one "drama" type activity a day.

OK 9 and up. MOST of these kids are into being "cool." I find that all they want to do is sit, gossip, listen to music and dance.
It would be "babyish" to play certian types of group games / ect. Again in the camps I have worked at we would do the art / sports/ drama thing once daily. But we would also have lots of free time in the gym (boys playing bball...girls gossip mostly) and a "game" time every PM for quite a while where we would set out board games like checkers / battleship (they loved this part of the day.) My 10 year old neice and all of her friends like "Watching movies, listening to n-sync and making up dance routines."

As a side note...from the age of 10 - 13 ...they hate almost everything.

"Not my kids," you may say? Well then your kids are of the minority. I would say that this describes 90% of the kids I have worked with ... and I must have worked with THOUSANDS. I'm not exaggerating. 19 years under my belt.

Second major complaint - The time it takes to move from area to area on the ship. OK .. once and for all . YES... they do need to repeat themselves over and over about the rules. You see ...kids and PARENTS forget. I deal with parents in my profession and find that they only listen to 1/4 of what you say each time ... or only read 1/4 of what you give them to read. SO if I repeat myself 4 times ... most of the parents will get the information. If I say something once I get "Huh? We didn't know that!!" If you are a parent who pays attention .... great. MOST DON'T!

I run an annual dance recital once a year. I have to be a drill seargent or I would go insane. I have endless rules, regulations and repeat them to the point of making myself blue in the face.

Why ??? I have to becuase no one seems to think the rules apply to them.

I would say that DCL sounds like they have learned how to keep parents and kids in LINE. They know what it takes to get from point A to point B without any major catastrophe happining. I guarentee you this over stating of the rules has come from experience.

I am not slamming anyones opinion. ... it's just that, your opinion, not fact. I have planned, taught and implimented many a child program .. and DCL sounds normal to me.

Anyway ... just the thoughts of a person who knows of what I speak.

wdwo

 

[Dave_from_Marietta]

wdwobsessed, thank you for your extensive and well-informed comments.

 

[Karel]

I agree with everything wdwobsessed said.

I work at summer camp for 12 years. It's quite an undertaking moving a group of children from one space to another. You have to make sure little Tommy has gotten from point a to point b. Yes, it takes time.

Also, Disney has no idea how many children will be on each cruise, using the clubs, so how can you set the number of counselors are needed for groups? Some weeks you're going to have larger groups and some weeks you're going to have smaller groups. Transition time may boring but that's life sometimes. Kids find ways to entertain themselves.

Lastly, dmdietz, I guess you're a nicer parent then I am. Don't you use babysitters at home occasionally? It is ok to want some adult time and leave the kids, even on vacation. Does everything have to be fun every minute or should kids learn to make their own fun. I wouldn't have cancelled my mud room reservation. It wasn't like they were sitting in a room with nothiing to do. I'm sure they could have found something to keep busy with. You have to convince them that they will be fine for an hour or two.

 

[dmdeitz]

We do have babysitters. But we know what we are getting into with them - someone to watch the kids, make sure they are safe, put them to bed when it's late.

We expected more from Disney than just that. Sure, I could have the kids go in there for a couple / few hours. Maybe we could do the mud room then. I was expecting (from other parent's comments on OTHER cruise lines), that the kids would want to be away from us / in what we were hoping was going to be a 'camp' for most of the day. I would have loved having to fight to get the kids out of the program - I would know they are having a great time. But again, that wasn't the case for us - the kids really objected to being there. And beyond a couple hours, I can't subject my kids to babysitting as their vacation. Keep in mind - we were on a trip that was dealing with a hurricane, if I hadn't mentioned before. The pools were closed, the deck was much too windy to hang out on, and they did NOTHING to beef up the kids, family or adult programs that day. Which made wanting them to be in the program more important. There were limited things at our disposal for my wife and I to keep the kids entertained. I NEEDED the kids program to work that day. But it failed, simple as that.

As for knowing the number of kids on a ship, they DO know - when you are making reservations, they are asking detailed info. That plus their past history, I bet they know very precisely how many kids in each age group will be on the boat.

As for kids wanting / not wanting structure, FINE! There are some that fit both categories. Which is why Disney should operate the lab / club in 2 modes that run concurrently - let kids that want to hang out / decompress / relax do that. It only takes the 1 or 2 counselors that are there already to staff the desks to make sure the kids don't leave / page parents . Then beef up the activities program with more things to do.

Yes, I understand the need to read the rules and take roll call. But when you are allottting 1/2 hour - 45 minutes to that, every hour or so, that is just criminal. If you have to keep remindning kids not to stick their fingers in the socket every 5 minutes, at some point you have to realize - I should move / cover the socket. If you have to remind the kids every hour about the rules because you are going to move them, maybe cut back on the number of moves!? The ships are very well designed. The lab and club are no exception. You have all those lab desks - USE THEM!

 

[CathyCanada]

I just wanted to say that I did the 4-night cruise with my kids on 10-14 and then with some Dreams agents on 12-02 and found that for those with late seating, there always seemed to be another family activity, (usually in Studio Sea) right after the show that was over in time for you to make dinner.

I have done 7 Disney Cruises since Oct. 99 and have noticed marked improvements in activities for all groups (adults, families and children) since then. That tells me that DCL does listen to guest concerns. Maybe they are not perfect but I doubt that any cruise line is and it is difficult to cater to a variety of children's tastes and personalities but I think they do a pretty good job of it.

My kids are a little older (16 and 12 on the last cruise) but my son enjoys going in the Lab for part of the time and my daughter loved Common Grounds and has made friends that she is still in contact with from last year's cruise.

Cathy

 

[callahanjulie10]

I asked my DD-10 what she thought that DCL could add in the lab to make it a more desirable place to go;

Here are her suggestions

1- do more outside activities such as games from other countries not just basketball. They had a few things like treasure hunts on the program but they did not have them when they were supposed to.

2- arts and crafts- something Disney but like soap, candle, or jewerly making or even making t-shirts that they could have each other sign.

3- show NEW movies not the same old Disney classics that they have grown up on- even go to the theatre more often and see new release movies

4- Seperate the girls and boys part of the time so that they could have do GIRL things such as having someone come down and do little mini make overs or themed things like American Girl parties ( I know that this isn't Disney but they could do a knock off version)

This is all I am suggesting- not a babysitter- not a my child is special program- BUT a program that my child would love to be involved in- that she would look forward to like I look forward to the spa!

I want our vacations to be as special and as much fun for her as they are for me. She is geting to the age that she will not want to do the mom/daughter things because they are not cool. I want her to want to go.

My family time is very special to me which is why we choose DCL. I want my family (all 3 of us) to enjoy ourselves. I do not feel that this is too much to ask.
If they offered different activities to at different times( I am not asking for constant amusement for her but something for an 1 or 2 a day would be great.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Woods]

Theme Parties:

My Girl Scout troop just LOVES American Girls too. We are doing a sleep over party in February and this time, instead of doing an American Girl theme, we are doing 'Princess Dairies". We are gonig to do make overs and put on a Fashion Show and so hair.

I just LOVED this movie. It must not have done well since it came out on video so quickly. But I was thrilled that it came out this month so we could use it as a theme.

A 'fun' theme for a DCL all girls program would be to do a "Princess Make-over" and set aside time in the spa for the girls to go up and see just what goes on up there (even I haven't been there), and then they could practice manners and things like that. Maybe even have a special 'princess tea' at Palos one afternoon.

I agree, though, I would love to see some 'girl' things. We just love the Disney Princesses. I would love to see a whole "Princess" themed cruise. Maybe over Mother's Day <G>.
Debra

 

[gottaluvdisney]

I do not have children, but was just on the 7-night and did see that they offered 'teen time' in the spa. I think it was only one or two days at a certain time.

 

[dmdeitz]

CallahanJulie10: Great Ideas! You would think we wouldn't have to be telling DISNEY this though, right?

Webmastercathycanada: Good day, eh? I don't like paying good money to have ot be the learning curve for any company, let alone Disney. You (or at least I) pay top dolllar for Disney and expect them to do their test marketing, focus groups, etc. all before this. And I contacted a bunch of Disney managers (see my listing of phone numbers and emails a few pages back in this thread). Every one of them was gracious to a fault thanking me for my comments, but every one of them basically said - we are happy with the way we have it now. So I really HATE sayign this, but we are booking a RC cruise next august. A couple different friends describe the RC kids program the way CallahanJulie10 and I envision the Disney kids program - something the kids really want to be part of. But we don't have to wait for it to be envisioned. RC has it NOW. As I said in the first note - as loyal as we are to Disney, this ANNOYS me to not want to do something Disney

 

[wdwobsessed]

I did want to add that one thing I find unexcusable is not following through with activities that are scheduled.

(Barring any weather difficulties that would make it impossible.)

If the advertise they are going to have a treasure hunt at 10:00 then they should have it.

Kids DO get very upset if you say "Today we are going to do A,B,C, and then you only do 1/2 of A and none of B or C. They remember everything you promise.

So if DCL has been doing this ... "tisk-tisk on you !"

I'm still going to do the cruise, so I guess I'll just have to see for myself! One of the MAJOR reasons we are taking the cruise is to have mommy / daddy time. We never get this. Working around kids as well I'm dealing with kids 24/7. Never, ever a break from "Mommy can I have..." or "Miss A can I have..."

I hope my kids don't take an instant disliking to the clubs. We plan on using it mostly in the evenings so we can have at least one fancy dinner without me getting mashed potatoes on my shirt and maybe a night of drinks and dancing.

Kind of off the subject - but my DH stops by a local pub that we have right down the street from us. We know several people that frequent the pub as well as bartenders, ect. A few weeks ago they started having "kareoke" (spelling?) on Wednesday nights. Well, a few people brought thier kids in. This is a BAR people! My husband was completely flabbergasted. He even went so far as to ask the people if they really felt (these are people we know) it was a good idea to have the kids around that type of atmosphere. Guys were cussing, telling off colored jokes, playing darts in the back while kids were running around.

The reply he gets it "What? What do you mean?" I mean HELLO!!
Some people are just plain dense and don't know when it's appropriate to leave the kids at home or not come.

So I for one am VERY, VERY, VERY glad that DCL limits some of the clubs to just adults. First of all I mean if I'm out for a no kids evening I don't want other peoples kids around. SORRY! I'm not anti-kid. I love them, have dedicated my life to them at home and at work. Nothing better than a smile from a child to warm your heart. But, when I just laid down a couple grand for a cruise and want family fun as well as adult time ... don't bring swearing drunkards to my family time, but don't bring screaming kids to my adult time either!! (rotfl)


Now all that said ...watch me go on the cruise and hate it.
Naahhhh - no way.


wdwo

 

[mog]

Originally posted by dmdeitz

Yes, I understand the need to read the rules and take roll call. But when you are allottting 1/2 hour - 45 minutes to that, every hour or so, that is just criminal.

I'm a little surprised that there would be that much difference between the 4 day and the 7 day! I just checked my kids Navigators from the 7 day because I didn't remember that much transition time. They only had 15 minutes of transition time for each move, and other than meals (which they have to move for) they only moved once or twice a day. I was there several times right at moving time and never really heard them going over rules - just taking roll. I wonder why the 4 day cruise would have so much more transition time and so much more often??

 

[wdwobsessed]

mog - it was probably just that your timing / and or perception was different.

one thing I have learned on these boards is that two people could take the exact same trip and one says it sucks ---- the other loves it.

Looking foward to my 3 day cruise in April! YES!!

wdwo