Star Wars: The Force Awakens Spoiler Thread. ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK

[bcla]

I believe that when people accuse it of being a reboot, they don't mean in the literal sense, the way The Dark Knight rebooted the Tim Burton Batman series. Rather, the overall plot line is such a mirror of #4 that it feels like it's telling the same story, that of a young person left on a desert planet with no knowledge of his/her ancestry but huge strength in the force and a mission to defeat a dark side warrior who is mentored by and subordinate to another mysterious master of the dark side - a mission that can only be met by first getting training from the last surviving Jedi knight.

Get rid of the the references to Yoda and Vader, the Han Solo and Leia plot lines (but maybe keep Kylo as the son of the Resistance general), rename Rey to Luka and it's more of a literal reboot.

Luke knew his father's name and had a vague idea that he was a pilot. Also - when Luke was trained there were supposed to be scattered Jedi around the galaxy in hiding.

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/843880-there-is-no-such-thing-as-a-new-idea-it

There is no such thing as a new idea. It is impossible. We simply take a lot of old ideas and put them into a sort of mental kaleidoscope. We give them a turn and they make new and curious combinations. We keep on turning and making new combinations indefinitely; but they are the same old pieces of colored glass that have been in use through all the ages.​

 

[lockedoutlogic]

When you tell the exact same story...it feels like a reboot to me...and I doubt I'm alone.

You don't have to quote the star catalogues or anything...it's just a feel from you're average movie goer.

 

[jsrowdon]

I didn't really mind the obv similarities to A New Hope although they could have probably toned that down just a bit. I am interested to see if they are going to try to explain how Rey was so easily able to tap into the force and preform techniques that have historically required lots of training such as mind tricks and telekinesis. I am hoping for a good explanation such as prior training that has been forgotten due to force memory wipe or something.

I will say the one thing that disappointed me the most was that they chose to make Kylo Rens real name Ben instead of Jacen.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I will say the one thing that disappointed me the most was that they chose to make Kylo Rens real name Ben instead of Jacen.

Would the fact that they specifically rejected that type of material -
Publically - because much of it was disjointed, chaotic, not coherent, and in many cases done on the cheap - influence your stance at all?

 

[wilkeliza]

I didn't really mind the obv similarities to A New Hope although they could have probably toned that down just a bit. I am interested to see if they are going to try to explain how Rey was so easily able to tap into the force and preform techniques that have historically required lots of training such as mind tricks and telekinesis. I am hoping for a good explanation such as prior training that has been forgotten due to force memory wipe or something.

I will say the one thing that disappointed me the most was that they chose to make Kylo Rens real name Ben instead of Jacen.

My theory on Ray is that since she is suppose to be so strong that when Kylo Ren taps into her brain it opens something. Also she did get some of the basic training that Luke got out of Obi with Maz Katana, close your eyes and feel the force around you. That is what she does when she zips around Kylo which seemed like not that big of a deal.

I think the blocking of her mind from Kylo and then seeing his was more a survival thing. She is strong in the force but very aware of herself and has killer survival skills.

The mind tricks. It was a storm trooper. It isn't like she mind tricked Kylo Ren. She also failed 3 times before getting it done so if she was actually in danger (such as Obi and Luke in Episode IV) she would have failed. Call it luck if you will that she got it on the third time.

 

[jsrowdon]

Would the fact that they specifically rejected that type of material -
Publically - because much of it was disjointed, chaotic, not coherent, and in many cases done on the cheap - influence your stance at all?

Not really. I knew going in that they were not following any of the existing EU content so I didn't expect an existing story line but it would have been nice a nice nod to all the loyal EU readers for them to give a throwback in name only.

As far as all the EU content being disjointed, chaotic, etc. that may be the case for a lot of the earlier works but in later years most of those stories worked together pretty well. There were obv some that were a lot better than others and quite a few that would be better if they were never written but overall they did a pretty decent job with the EU considering how expansive the SW universe is.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Not really. I knew going in that they were not following any of the existing EU content so I didn't expect an existing story line but it would have been nice a nice nod to all the loyal EU readers for them to give a throwback in name only.

As far as all the EU content being disjointed, chaotic, etc. that may be the case for a lot of the earlier works but in later years most of those stories worked together pretty well. There were obv some that were a lot better than others and quite a few that would be better if they were never written but overall they did a pretty decent job with the EU considering how expansive the SW universe is.

I'll speak for the mouse's mouth here...

The problem with the loyal EU fans is that they are a niche compared to the general entertainment consuming masses.

And disney...especially not this modern variant...doesn't do "niche"

It's about saturation and they need not
Go that route. Just the way it is.

The one exception "niche" is the ultra wealthy...they'd paint the castle polka dots if it sold more plots in golden oak

 

[jsrowdon]

That is the basically the reason that I have no problem with then doing away with years of canon. I would not expect them to try to make a movie like star wars to only appeal to the small group of eu readers. Of course they are going for market saturation but in this one case naming the spawn of solo Ben or Jacen really isn't going to make a bit of difference to the general audience nor does it change the story in any meaningful way but it would have a made difference to the eu fans.

Also, like I said, that was my biggest disappointment in the movie and if the biggest disappointment I can come up with is 1 characters name then overall I think they did a pretty good job.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

That is the basically the reason that I have no problem with then doing away with years of canon. I would not expect them to try to make a movie like star wars to only appeal to the small group of eu readers. Of course they are going for market saturation but in this one case naming the spawn of solo Ben or Jacen really isn't going to make a bit of difference to the general audience nor does it change the story in any meaningful way but it would have a made difference to the eu fans.

Also, like I said, that was my biggest disappointment in the movie and if the biggest disappointment I can come up with is 1 characters name then overall I think they did a pretty good job.

Oh I hear ya...

Not a big problem at all.

I think they looked at any eu reference as a Pandora's box. I'd make the same decision if it were mine.

 

[jsrowdon]

Yeah, I can understand the augment that the wouldn't want to use Jacen so that the new character would not be confused with existing eu lore.

Still, as a long time eu reader I was hoping for a Jacen reference.

 

[LinderInWonderland]

We saw it twice in 14 hours and are going again on Christmas Eve. Loved it!

The opinions ongoing are my own and may be controversial to some, but as a Red Sox fan who survived years in Yankee country and a Pats fan in Seahawks land, I can hold my own.

I have zero hate for the prequels or the special editions, only minor nitpicky issues. I was 6 years old when A New Hope came out and I become 6 again when I watch any of them.

Only problems with the SE: no way did Greedo shoot first and HOW could you get rid of my beloved Ewok Celebration, George? (Full disclosure: DH and I entered our wedding reception to the dulcet strains of "Yub Yub" under a light saber arch - a surprise arranged by our friends.)

I have no hate for midichlorians, either. To me, the universe of the prequels was similar to the Golden Age of Greece or Pax Romana. What advances that had been made or knowledge learned was lost in the Middle Ages.

My ranking: V, III, IV, VI, I, II. Empire is one of my top three favorite movies of all time. Revenge of the Sith makes me cry buckets every time. When the youngling jumps back from Anakin's saber? Devastating. My only nit-pick from that movie is when Vader finds out Padme died and screams Noooooo in James Earl Jones voice. Awkward.

For TFA, I was in bliss. Harrison Ford was too happy doing all the press, so I knew he would die in this movie. I thought Carrie Fisher was fine. She was 19 when she did the first movie and I accept that women age and their voices change. I loved Han Solo being a 70 year old smuggler. Rey and Fin are so much fun and I very much look forward to finding out more about them. Many people didn't buy the fight between Kylo Ren/Fin/Rey, but I agree with others that he was clearly wounded and kept hitting his wound to spur up the anger he needs to be strong with the Dark Side. For my minor nit-picks, I was disappointed that Captain Phasma didn't have more to do and hope the powers that be aren't trying to hard to create a cult figure a la Boba Fett. Also, I hope Poe Dameron has more of a storyline than being just the mechanism for Fin to get to Jakku.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Have any of you seen the Emo Kylo Ren (@kylor3n) twitter account?

It's hilarious.

Emo Kylo Ren ‏@KyloR3n Dec 22
dad the wookiee used all my garnier fructis​

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Luke knew his father's name and had a vague idea that he was a pilot. Also - when Luke was trained there were supposed to be scattered Jedi around the galaxy in hiding.

Almost all of the old "canon" is now called "legends" and is no longer in continuity with the Star Was universe as a whole. The only fully trained Jedi we know are still alive as of 5 years before A New Hope are Yoda and Obi-Wan Kenobi.
There are also the former padawans Ahsoka Tano and Caleb Dume (now going by the name Kanan Jarrus), as well as Kanan's padawan Ezra Bridger. As of now, we don't know if Ahsoka, Caleb, or Ezra are alive by the time Luke starts his training.

 

[bcla]

Almost all of the old "canon" is now called "legends" and is no longer in continuity with the Star Was universe as a whole. The only fully trained Jedi we know are still alive as of 5 years before A New Hope are Yoda and Obi-Wan Kenobi.
There are also the former padawans Ahsoka Tano and Caleb Dume (now going by the name Kanan Jarrus), as well as Kanan's padawan Ezra Bridger. As of now, we don't know if Ahsoka, Caleb, or Ezra are alive by the time Luke starts his training.

However, Luke knew who his father was. Or at least that he had gotten "off this rock".

My father didn't fight in the Clone Wars. He was a navigator on a spice freighter.​

 

[Dr.Mickey]

I'm late to this discussion, but I'll share my take on it. I saw the first in 1977 and loved it - had nearly every action figure. But I am not even remotely an extended universe fan.

I saw Force Awakens on Christmas Eve, six days after release. And I'll be honest, I was STUNNED that Han was killed. I can totally understand why I should have seen it coming, but it had been out for 6 days already. I am shocked that was kept spoiler free. Obviously I didn't check this site

As for the overall movie, I thought it was great. I am blown away by Ms Daisy Ridley. She was unbelievable.

 

[MaxsDad]

Yeah, I can understand the augment that the wouldn't want to use Jacen so that the new character would not be confused with existing eu lore.

Still, as a long time eu reader I was hoping for a Jacen reference.

Jacen would have been nice, but I understand why they didn't. But to me, naming him after obi wan makes little sense. Leia never met him and Han knew him for five minutes and didn't seem to be much of a fan, but hey let's name our only son after him.

As far as the EU goes,I understand why they cut a lot out, but the Thrawn trilogy was the best imo.

 

[JusticeForGaston]

I was STUNNED that Han was killed. I can totally understand why I should have seen it coming, but it had been out for 6 days already. I am shocked that was kept spoiler free.

I've been really impressed with internet citizens over the last week - The spoiler etiquette has been spot on and I also was surprised how unspoilt I was considering how must I time I spent online.

 

[black magic]

Here are my thoughts on the Kylo/Rey fight scene. Kylo IS defeating Rey even while he is injured, right up to the point of pushing Rey off of the cliff. However, Rey and Kylo lock eyes and we hear what I call the "force" music. I believe it is at this point that Rey is looking into Kylo's mind and possibly taking away some Jedi training skills, because immediately after that is when the tables turn. Thoughts?

 

[Angel Ariel]

Here are my thoughts on the Kylo/Rey fight scene. Kylo IS defeating Rey even while he is injured, right up to the point of pushing Rey off of the cliff. However, Rey and Kylo lock eyes and we hear what I call the "force" music. I believe it is at this point that Rey is looking into Kylo's mind and possibly taking away some Jedi training skills, because immediately after that is when the tables turn. Thoughts?

I don't think she's taking away any of kylo Ren's powers so much as just tapping into her own untrained abilities

 

[JusticeForGaston]

Here are my thoughts on the Kylo/Rey fight scene. Kylo IS defeating Rey even while he is injured, right up to the point of pushing Rey off of the cliff. However, Rey and Kylo lock eyes and we hear what I call the "force" music. I believe it is at this point that Rey is looking into Kylo's mind and possibly taking away some Jedi training skills, because immediately after that is when the tables turn. Thoughts?

Interesting theory. I think it's more that she just composed herself and let the force guide her / reinvigorate her but I do like the idea of force power stealing - don't think that's ever been touched upon in any of the other movies.