Say Goodbye to the Auction Scene in Pirates

[VandVsmama]

So @Winnowill 's post above about IJ would be #26, I think.

27. Daisy's relationship with Donald Duck
- teaches impressionable girls that it's ok to stay in an abusive relationship for years with a guy who screams and yells and throws stuff when he's mad at you

29. Princess Merida & Moana
- should be removed from all character meet & greets entirely because they ran away from home, defied their parents, and almost got themselves killed.

30. Rapunzel
- gives girls the idea that if you run away with the first criminal you see, everything will work out, you'll be handed the keys to the kingdom, and the loser criminal will suddenly change his ways and become an honest guy all because you sang a pretty song and flipped your hair a few times.

 

[VandVsmama]

31. the Disneyland parking lots
- further encourages global warming by giving park guests a place to park their gas-guzzling Earth-ruining cars. Disney should force all park guests to take Amtrak, city buses, or better yet...everybody goes to Disneyland on the ART bus. Or get there via bicycle. Or go all Dr Who and travel by Tardis.

 

[squeezle]

Further, the Caribbean Pirates do not exist today and so that scene represents something that happened centuries ago and cannot be changed. Most people understand that they have nothing to fear from pirates in the Caribbean Sea today.

Global warming is happening now and affects everyone.

Have you considered this?



(This is a graph used to illustrate the statistical concept that correlation is not causation, but it was too perfect and I couldn't resist. )

You may now return to your regularly scheduled programming....

 

[5forMickey]

Perhaps if we examine the issue from another direction:

Alvernon90 I'm truly not trying to be argumentative, for many of us, or at least myself, a rape scene is the last thing we think of when going on POTC and specifically this part of the ride. Literally never once has that thought crossed my mind and I am pretty protective of women's abuse issues.

Try to be open and just see it as a ride with funny characters doing funny things. I like the analogy of the Men buying the Women only to be chased out of the kitchen by them. And isn't there a sign that say something about "buying a wife", not raping someone.

Not everything in life needs to be overly analyzed to make sure it's not offensive. We have tons of examples of horrible, horrific treatment of women in the world that needs to be stopped/addressed I agree 100% with you, but this is not one. There needs to be some places we can go and escape all these horrors of the world where we don't go looking to make things bigger than they really are. Some places where a mouse is really just a mouse trying to make up happy.

 

[GatorChris]

Further, the Caribbean Pirates do not exist today and so that scene represents something that happened centuries ago and cannot be changed. Most people understand that they have nothing to fear from pirates in the Caribbean Sea today.

Global warming is happening now and affects everyone.

Theoretically. *winkwink* (I mean, everyone knows there's still pirates)

But here's some additions to numbers you already put up.

10. Star Tours clearly depicts that enslaving droids is perfectly acceptable, perpetuating the belief that there are lower created beings.

15. Pinnochio - The ride actually uses profanity (jack***), which I don't appreciate around my children.

20. Mr Toad's Wild Ride - This attraction has a scene of hell, which clearly promotes the belief that God exists, which will infuriate the atheists.

22. Donald Duck - A sailor who always has his pants off is definitely a swipe at the risque behavior of our men in the Navy

And here's some more numbers:

32. Storybook Canal - this one tells the world that being completely inarticulate gives you the right to tell Disney stories.

33. Tom Sawyer Island - any place that encourages kids to run away from their folks and behave rudely is unacceptable.

34. King Arthur's Carousel - Forcing horses to dress up in gaudy stirrups and ride in circles all day is certainly accepting of animal cruelty.

 

[paintingoncelluloid]

My perspective is that the ride is a work of art that shouldn't have its scenes tampered with for political purposes.

But theme park rides aren't stable works of art -- they're works of art that are continually updated for all kinds of reasons. Over the years POTC has gotten new mechanical updates, new special effects, character and story updates based on new movies, etc. Updating story because we're advancing as a culture past rape jokes is at least as legitimate as updating story because we developed new animatronics technology.

Furthermore, since the vast, vast majority of pirates were male, featuring female pirates for political correctness's sake would make that scene feel false.

The vast majority of the pirates in POTC will still be male. Adding one or two female pirates will be, by far, the most historically accurate thing in that ride. (I mean, this ride has skeleton pirates that talk and a big squid-faced dude in it. History it is not.)

 

[Shanti]

But theme park rides aren't stable works of art -- they're works of art that are continually updated for all kinds of reasons. Over the years POTC has gotten new mechanical updates, new special effects, character and story updates based on new movies, etc. Updating story because we're advancing as a culture past rape jokes is at least as legitimate as updating story because we developed new animatronics technology.



The vast majority of the pirates in POTC will still be male. Adding one or two female pirates will be, by far, the most historically accurate thing in that ride. (I mean, this ride has skeleton pirates that talk and a big squid-faced dude in it. History it is not.)

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't want any ride at Disney to have to pass a political test. It's unnecessary and the beginning of a slippery slope for every classic ride to potentially be PC-vetted and changed. They should leave it alone.

 

[alvernon90]

Alvernon90 I'm truly not trying to be argumentative, for many of us, or at least myself, a rape scene is the last thing we think of when going on POTC and specifically this part of the ride. Literally never once has that thought crossed my mind and I am pretty protective of women's abuse issues.

If it has literally never once crossed your mind that the women in that scene were about to get raped, then we experience the world in vastly different ways. I literally cannot understand why this would not occur to you. What the heck do you think is happening in that scene? Did you think the brides were willing, and the rope tying them up was the "something borrowed" part of their wedding outfits?

But more importantly, if someone gives this ride so little thought that they don't even know this is a rape scene, what difference does it make if the scene is changed? If the scene has no content, it can be anything, so who cares?

 

[minnieralyks]

I must have been really, really oblivious riding this ride the past 15+ years. Everything went over my head as a kid, all I remember was how fun taking a boat ride while Pirates sang "Yo ho, Yo ho!" was. Haven't read the whole thread, but c'mon! It's make believe.

I think people are way overthinking this. Leave it alone, Disney!

 

[alvernon90]

A lot of people would argue that ghosts are definitely real and that seances are nothing to joke about or make fun of.

Probably true, a lot of people believe a lot of weird stuff, but it wouldn't make sense to set corporate policy based on those people.

 

[NannyBeBe]

Every day I wonder what PC nonsense I will hear about today. I just shake my head and laugh, and hope that someday we go back to concentrating on the truly important issues. If Disney were to remove every tidbit that could possibly offend someone, then they may as well shut down DLR altogether.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

I never felt outraged over the scene. I don't want to PC the world. But the more people make fun those who are bothered by it, complain about it being changed, and compare it to things like animals driving vehicles, the more I think that it's probably a good idea to get rid of the scene.

 

[SteveMP]

Every time I have ridden POTC, and our boat has sailed past this scene, people laugh. And every time I think, what about this is funny? Is it funny to see women be sold as property? Is it funny to imagine rape? Is it funny to hear men demean women? Every time, it makes me feel weirded out and gross.

And not only does the scene depict an un-funny rape joke that makes guests feel gross, it's also lazy: rape jokes are (still!) common and ubiquitous. I agree with squeezle that the more interesting and innovative approach to the scene is to feature female pirates being complete characters.

You must have a dirty mind I always thought they were just trying to steal their jewelry. I guess it all depends on where peoples' minds wander to. I guess its like Oscar Wilde once said " We're all in the gutter, but some of us are looking up at the stars".

I have decided to start a list of offensive issues at Disneyland Park:

1. POTC ride
- Women being sold as wives
- Torturing the mayor
- Burning down cities
- Shooting guns at other people for sport
- Stealing

2. HM ride
- Women who murder their husbands
- Witchcraft and seances
- Suggesting that you commit suicide (stretching room)
- Suggesting that you hurry your own death in order to join the 999 "happy haunts"

3. Dumbo ride
- Circuses abuse animals and especially elephants

4. Peter Pan ride
- Torture of a young girl (Pirates make Wendy walk the plank)
- Torture of indian princess (Tiger Lilly tied up and threatened with death)
- Stereotype portrayal of indians

5. Princesses
- False portrayal of females using attractive young women as princesses often in need of being rescued by virile young men (who happen to be princes themselves)
- Nobility and royalty that support princesses lived their lives on the backs of serfs who were little more than indentured servants in real life and were heavily taxed for frivolous reasons such as the building of the palace at Versailles

6. BTMRR
- Mining activities damage the earth and contribute to global warming

7. Frontierland
- The real story of the American frontier is that of European derived people moving to North America and forcing out native Americans onto reservations and in general mistreating them and often killing them.
- Riverboats like the Mark Twain burned coal and polluted the environment contributing to global warming

8. Jungle Cruise
- Jokes made about people who kill others and take their skulls
- Jokes made about shooting guns at wildlife (Skippers and hippos)
- Jokes made about indigenous people who live in jungles

9. Alice in Wonderland ride
- Animals mistreated by the queen for her croquet game
- Servants mistreated and forced to paint flowers so that they will not be killed (and "lose their heads")
- In general the queen wanting to cut off people's heads who do not follow her orders ("Off with their heads!")

10. Star Tours
- Support for the idea of "The Force" which has no basis in reality but sounds a lot like witchcraft
- People being threatened with death

11. Winnie the Pooh
- Support for gluttony and obesity

12. Disneyland Railroad
- Steam trains burned dirty coal, polluted the environment, contributed to global warming, and went across native American lands which contributed to the downfall of native Americans

I find it offensive that Disneyland disenfranchises the poor by charging admission. This must be stopped!

And they favor those taking public transportation while punishing us who drive with discriminatory parking taxes. Shameful!

And the most appalling is the "backside of water" reference. Should water be onjectified like its a piece of meat? We all know what they mean by "backside"

 

[SMD]

You must have a dirty mind I always thought they were just trying to steal their jewelry. I guess it all depends on where peoples' minds wander to. I guess its like Oscar Wilde once said " We're all in the gutter, but some of us are looking up at the stars".

It also depends how long you've been going to DLR. The drunk pirate by the barrels that talks about a treasure map used to offer to share his wench with riders looking for a good time because she was more than he could handle. Behind him the other pirates were chasing the women they bought in the take a wench for a bride auction. Disney stopped that audio probably 20 years ago now.

 

[alvernon90]

It also depends how long you've been going to DLR. The drunk pirate by the barrels that talks about a treasure map used to offer to share his wench with riders looking for a good time because she was more than he could handle. Behind him the other pirates were chasing the women they bought in the take a wench for a bride auction. Disney stopped that audio people 25 years ago now.

This is what I find so amusing about this debate. The scene used to be much worse, and there was the same "we must protect park history against the PC police" arguments at that time. It has already been changed to make it more PC, and it was changed again to make it more synergistic by adding Jack Sparrow. The "history" of the ride is that the auction scene is always up for changes. We do not owe it to Walt's frozen corpse to keep that scene exactly as it happens to be on this date.

 

[minnieralyks]

If it has literally never once crossed your mind that the women in that scene were about to get raped, then we experience the world in vastly different ways. I literally cannot understand why this would not occur to you. What the heck do you think is happening in that scene? Did you think the brides were willing, and the rope tying them up was the "something borrowed" part of their wedding outfits?

But more importantly, if someone gives this ride so little thought that they don't even know this is a rape scene, what difference does it make if the scene is changed? If the scene has no content, it can be anything, so who cares?

Honestly, this isn't cool.

It's really no ones place to suggest that someone is oblivious to what violence looks like or must "experience the world in vastly different ways" based off your perceived thoughts/ideas on a ride. Some people have had loved ones who have dealt with violence and assault or have experienced it first hand. What you're saying they should be thinking about is probably one of the last things on their mind on a ride in Disneyland.

 

[gottalovepluto]

I'm sad, but I just don't like changes to any classic Disneyland rides... Also, from the little available on it the upcoming scene is super boring looking. Oh look a female pirate with red hair and a gun resting on her hip- they could have at least changed the scene into some memorable moment from the movies.

 

[mummabear]

I don't think we should have a dumbo ride, because forcing an elephant to fly in a circle for our amusement is cruelty to animals.

I have decided to start a list of offensive issues at Disneyland Park:

1. POTC ride
- Women being sold as wives
- Torturing the mayor
- Burning down cities
- Shooting guns at other people for sport
- Stealing

2. HM ride
- Women who murder their husbands
- Witchcraft and seances
- Suggesting that you commit suicide (stretching room)
- Suggesting that you hurry your own death in order to join the 999 "happy haunts"

3. Dumbo ride
- Circuses abuse animals and especially elephants

4. Peter Pan ride
- Torture of a young girl (Pirates make Wendy walk the plank)
- Torture of indian princess (Tiger Lilly tied up and threatened with death)
- Stereotype portrayal of indians

5. Princesses
- False portrayal of females using attractive young women as princesses often in need of being rescued by virile young men (who happen to be princes themselves)
- Nobility and royalty that support princesses lived their lives on the backs of serfs who were little more than indentured servants in real life and were heavily taxed for frivolous reasons such as the building of the palace at Versailles

6. BTMRR
- Mining activities damage the earth and contribute to global warming

7. Frontierland
- The real story of the American frontier is that of European derived people moving to North America and forcing out native Americans onto reservations and in general mistreating them and often killing them.
- Riverboats like the Mark Twain burned coal and polluted the environment contributing to global warming

8. Jungle Cruise
- Jokes made about people who kill others and take their skulls
- Jokes made about shooting guns at wildlife (Skippers and hippos)
- Jokes made about indigenous people who live in jungles

9. Alice in Wonderland ride
- Animals mistreated by the queen for her croquet game
- Servants mistreated and forced to paint flowers so that they will not be killed (and "lose their heads")
- In general the queen wanting to cut off people's heads who do not follow her orders ("Off with their heads!")

10. Star Tours
- Support for the idea of "The Force" which has no basis in reality but sounds a lot like witchcraft
- People being threatened with death

11. Winnie the Pooh
- Support for gluttony and obesity

12. Disneyland Railroad
- Steam trains burned dirty coal, polluted the environment, contributed to global warming, and went across native American lands which contributed to the downfall of native Americans

13. Autopia
- noise pollution due to noisy cars
- contributes to global warming because of the use of gasoline-powered vehicles

14. People Mover track
- contributes to urban decay because it's been there for so long without being used and is an eye sore and is deteriorating

15. Pinocchio
- child slavery on Pleasure Island

16. Toy Story Mania
- promotes & celebrates violence because you are rewarded (you get points) for shooting projectiles at stuff

17. all of Cars Land
- promotes global warming by celebrating gas-powered vehicles

18. all non-face characters at both parks
- could cause behavioral health problems in vulnerable populations because people might believe that animals and animated characters really can come out of the TV or movie screen and talk to you in real life

19. all of Main Street USA
- because it celebrates a time gone by when women didn't have the right to vote and women were generally treated as having fewer rights than men

God help us guys, we may just have to shutter the whole park!

Further, the Caribbean Pirates do not exist today and so that scene represents something that happened centuries ago and cannot be changed. Most people understand that they have nothing to fear from pirates in the Caribbean Sea today.

Global warming is happening now and affects everyone.

Well at least as recently as 2001 Pirates were still killing people, most notabley Sir Peter Blake.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't want any ride at Disney to have to pass a political test. It's unnecessary and the beginning of a slippery slope for every classic ride to potentially be PC-vetted and changed. They should leave it alone.

This exactly, it becomes a slippery slope.

At the end of the day, it's a ride about Pirates, pirates were bad guys, if people take such offence to their actions maybe they should just skip this ride.

I find it amazing that in such a short time, while there is still legitimate Pirates we as a society have "cleaned up" the image of Pirates, with pirate and princess parties, kids dressed up for Halloween etc. Do you think 100 years from now kids will be dressing up as Isis fighters?

 

[superme80]

Not happy with these plans. I think it is horrible to ruin a classic ride.

 

[HydroGuy]

Well at least as recently as 2001 Pirates were still killing people, most notabley Sir Peter Blake.

I specifically mentioned Pirates and the Caribbean Sea, and while I am sure bad things happen there, people do not typically say "we are not going to the Caribbean this year because of the danger from pirates".

I find it amazing that in such a short time, while there is still legitimate Pirates we as a society have "cleaned up" the image of Pirates, with pirate and princess parties, kids dressed up for Halloween etc. Do you think 100 years from now kids will be dressing up as Isis fighters?

It is not so much that pirates' image has been "cleaned up", it is that it has been romanticized through storytelling and movies. Similar to cowboys and six-guns from the old west, knights in shining armor who it seems were not great people by and large, and princesses in old castles. To some degree, the Chicago gangsters have been romanticized through movies. The 1950's have been romanticized like Happy Days while neglecting the struggle for civil rights. That does not stop us from enjoying CarsLand, Route 66 (the romanticized version) and Flo's V8 Diner at DCA.

I am sure there are appropriate places for discussing the serious sides of these issues. Disney parks is not near the top of the list for that. I do concede that it is appropriate that someone raise these issues in the context of Disney parks. Disney should not get a blank check just because it is "family entertainment". That is another kind of slippery slope of which we should be mindful.