OT: Restroom Vent

[Earstou]

A few years back I remember reading an answer (by Ann Landers, Emily Post, someone like that, can't remember who) about the handicapp stalls.
Her answer was that it was perfectly acceptable to use the stall if no handicapped person was in the restroom. She said that, unlike parking stalls, use was so fast that it didn't cause problems. So that could cause many people to not even think twice about using those stalls.
I used to use the stalls when my son was in a stroller, the only stall we fit in. I didn't dare take him out of the stroller when I had to go, as he would "disappear" on me, usually exiting under the door, or sideways into the next stall! We finally figured out he has Aspergers.

 

[Emmaline Lola]

That I LOVE family bathrooms at WDW, and the mall! The family bathrooms are designed to be one huge little room seperate from the regular bathrooms. But I can take my stroller in with me.

If I am by myself and their is not a family bathroom, I unfortunately, have to use the HA stall, to be able to fit my stroller in with me. I feel awful and rush like there is no tomorrow just in case someone in a wheelchair may need it. And I promise once my dd can stand on her own, I will NEVER use it!

You would be surprised how many of the wheelchair accessible stalls actually have the baby changing station INSIDE the stall! At restaurants mostly. I am shocked by this! It can sometimes take a good couple of minutes to change a dirty diaper! Thus I am holding up the HA stall! I HATE that! Why don't they put the diaper changing station in the main bathroom area?!@?!?!? Drives me crazy!

To the op, I agree w/ your feelings totally!

el

 

[SueM in MN]

That I LOVE family bathrooms at WDW, and the mall! The family bathrooms are designed to be one huge little room seperate from the regular bathrooms. But I can take my stroller in with me.

Please do not take this as a bash. You sound like a very responsible person and I'm sure you are not aware of what I'm going to post next.

Most people are not aware of this, but WDW doesn't have Family Restrooms. They are labeled as "Companion" restrooms and they are not on any of the maps or literature except the Guidebooks for Guests with Disabilities. That's because they are WDW's attempt to provide accessible restrooms in the older parks that were built without accessibility. They end up on lists on the internet though as Family Restrooms, so people think that's what they are.
At the newer parks, it's not so much of a problem because the handicapped stalls in the ladies and men's rooms are large enough for a wheelchair to be in the stall (and have the door closed).
But at MK and at Epcot, those few stalls are the only stalls that are available that a wheelchair user who needs their wheelchair in the stall with them can fit in. So, for example, at MK, that means there are only those 6 stalls that someone like my DD can use in the whole park.

For the "Ann Landers" information. I do think there are times when it is acceptable for someone to use the handicapped stalls without being handicapped, but, there are a lot of buts (no pun) involved.
- if it's a small restoom, with very few stalls and a line of people waiting, it does make sense to use that stall if no one with a special need needs it.
- if there are other stalls available, don't use the handicapped stall.
- use it and get out as quickly as possible.
- realize that using the handicapped stall for some people is a necessity and for other people is a choice. Don't choose to use it if there are other options.

In the cases where the baby changing station is in the handicapped stall, you don't have another option if you need to change a diaper, so do the best you can.
It's either there because the person installing it couldn't find any other place to put it or they just saw all the "extra" space in the handicapped stall and have no realization of what that space is there for. Just as bad, are the places where they put the changing table so anyone using it blocks access to/from the handicapped stall. I've seen that too.

 

[taximomfor4]

there are a lot of buts (no pun) involved.

 

[Andrew Bichard]

"Companion" restrooms ... are WDW's attempt to provide accessible restrooms in the older parks that were built without accessibility.

"Companion" restrooms are also necessary where the disabled person and their helper are opposites sexes (ie husband and wife) and cannot go into either the mens or ladies restroom together.

If I had the power to ammend parts of the ADA, I would make it a requirement that a percentage of stalls in every restroom be handicap accessible subject say to a minimum of two, except where only a single stall is provided. That way, at least one HA stall would become free fairly quickly and there would be fewer arguments about the use of these stalls.

As an alternative, the UK system of locked HA toilets with a pass key issued to all disabled persons should be introduced in the USA.

Andrew

 

[SueM in MN]

"Companion" restrooms are also necessary where the disabled person and their helper are opposites sexes (ie husband and wife) and cannot go into either the mens or ladies restroom together.

If I had the power to ammend parts of the ADA, I would make it a requirement that a percentage of stalls in every restroom be handicap accessible subject say to a minimum of two, except where only a single stall is provided. That way, at least one HA stall would become free fairly quickly and there would be fewer arguments about the use of these stalls.

As an alternative, the UK system of locked HA toilets with a pass key issued to all disabled persons should be introduced in the USA.

Andrew

Thanks. I missed pointing out the "companion" part of the "Companion Restrooms." It could be a child with an opposite sex parent or an adul wtih an opposite sex companion.

I have never looked to see if there is a "number" component to the ADA stalls, but it would be nice if it's a cartain per cent.

 

[AnninIowa]

While I agree the woman was crass and rude, if she was literally in the middle of doing her business, then at that moment she really was handicapped!!!!

 

[hentob]

Did get one though when I was in a real *****y mood. Parked my power wheelchair blocking the HC stall door and trapped the person and her kids in the stall while I struggled to get in the regular stall next to it. She was furious and I just siled and said sorry I din't want to wet my pants and if she hadn't been in a HC stall it wouldn't happen. Too bad!

But what if she or one of the children had a not-so-obvious handicap?

 

[Talking Hands]

It was pretty obvious that they weren't. Kids were not little ones. As far as blocking them, there was a choice of doing that or wetting myself. I chose not to wet myself. You do what you have to do.

 

[hentob]

It was pretty obvious that they weren't. Kids were not little ones. As far as blocking them, there was a choice of doing that or wetting myself. I chose not to wet myself. You do what you have to do.

No. You enjoyed blocking them. You enjoyed that they were angry. You "smiled" at their anger.

You are VERY wrong to assume that someone in their party wasn't handicap. What if the children had Depends that needed changing and they needed the extra space? What if the mother needed to hold on the handrails for some reason? What if one of the children was autistic (You would NEVER know that my son is) and needed the mother to assist them? Or if both of the children had issues and the mother had to bring them in the stall with her while she used the handrails. Perhaps she couldn't leave them unattended? So many different combinations.

People who are "disabled" come in many shapes and sizes. Young and old (since you commented on the age of the children). They may appear able bodied, but have a deficit in areas we can't see. I am sorry you weren't educated on this matter when you were in your bad mood and purposely blocked the family coming out of the handicap stall.

It may have been easier just to let them through and then you could have had your turn.

 

[SueM in MN]

OK, please play nice. No "reading minds" or personal attacks.
I don't want to have to close a bathroom thread of all things
Top 10 FACTS that don't need to be argued:

• There are not enough handicapped stalls/restrooms.
• There is nothing marking most stalls to let people know it is a handicapped stall.
• Even though WDW only lists them in the Guidebook for Guests with Disabilities, the Companion Restrooms at WDW are pretty well publised on the internet and most people think they are "Family Restrooms."
• Some people use the handicapped stall without realizing that's what it is. We are clued in to the door opens outward, the stall might be a bit longer (but also might not, depending on the layout of the restroom). But people who are just looking for a stall may not notice those things, even though they are obvious to us.
• Sometimes people without physical disabilities need to use the handicapped stall because of the extra space or need to assist someone else.
• Sometimes people have invisible disabilities that make handicapped stall the one they need because of the features of that stall; examples, such as grab bars; or extra space or sink (in some stalls) for someone with a colostomy, ileostomy or urostomy, or the changing table (for those handicapped stalls where that's where it is).
• It is usually difficult to determine whether someone fits into facts 4, 5 or 6. Especially if they are already in the stall.
• Even if only people with special needs ever go into those stalls, there will still be times when that stall is occupied when someone who needs it enters the restroom.
• Because there are often lines in restrooms, people need to be considerate, do their business and get out as quickly as possible (realizing that "as quickly as possible" is a relative term (I apologize for anyone who has had to wait for DD - she is slow, but we're moving as fast as we can).
• Rude people exist, but if they are already in the stall you need, being rude to them usually is not in your best interest (they could leave it a mess, they could take longer just to know it ticks you off, etc).

 

[roseprincess]

I do agree with hentob on this situation. You really don't know sometimes if a child is autistic, esp. low-functioning, that can't speak and is not toilet trained yet. Plus, some of these autistic kids do tend to run away.
So,for bathroom purposes, I don't see a problem for a mom with her special needs kids using a handicap stall. I'm not talking just at WDW, but anywhere where there isn't a family or campanion bathroom or stall.
I have 2 special needs children(twins), one who is autistic. When they were younger(about 1yr old -5yrs. old), I used the handicap stall most of the time because I had to change both of their diapers or pull-ups, esp the poopy kind. The only way to change their pull-ups by myself,was to use the handicap stall. It also helped so ds wouldn't run away from me while I was working on my dd changing her diaper or pull-up.

Any of the bathrooms I used, I never saw a wheelchaired person in the bathroom at the same time(I live in the midwest). If I would have, I would obviously let them use the handicap stall. Now that my special needs twins are potty- trained and are 8 yrs. old, they go in the bathroom and use a normal stall.

Maybe newer buildings should make 2 handicap stalls instead of 1? I don't know the regulations for bathrooms and buildings on all this. Just my thought for 2 handicap stalls.

Any public bathroom I have walked into never had written on their handicap stall "for wheelchair people only". Yes, I know it is mostly for wheelchair people as of common sense, but it is open for anyone with a disability that needs to use that kind of stall, that is not taking advantage of it.

 

[roseprincess]

sorry Sue,
My post went thru before I saw your post.

 

[SueM in MN]

sorry Sue,
My post went thru before I saw your post.

That's Ok, your post is fine.

 

[taximomfor4]

Just wanted to chime in here one more time. This could get lengthy, so bear with me please!!
I posted earlier that I DO use WA stalls from time to time. Never when by myself, and usually not if I only have one small child with me that can squeeze into a regular stall with me. If I have more than one small child, it is absolutely not safe enough to leave one or more of them outside the stall while I do my business, or while I help another one of them special needs older child, or one of the younger ones) with theirs. And in a great many places, it is hard enough to get into a regular stall and close the door with just myself. Fitting myself and 2 or even 3 small children in one is usually quite impossible. I have, in desperate situations, been THAT mom (ewwww) that holds a stall door OPEN so my young child on the toilet (with toilet seat cover, lol) can see me, yet I can still see my other young kids who are in the main part of the restroom standing with me. Trust me, the glares for doing that are EVERYWHERE. That said, if another adult is with me, I am very careful to leave as many kids as I can with that other adult, and only take the one who needs help in the bathroom with me. But I don't always have another adult with me. (Not talking WDW here, but ANYWHERE out in public).
I hope this thread doesn't get closed. Barring personal attacks, everyone's viewpoints (even the harshly stated ones) give me food for thought. I will definitely be concerned for others whenever I do end up in a WA stall. In fact, if one did get snippy while I was in the stall with older dd (special needs), I would apologize profusely and even offer the quick explanation that even though it does not look like it, we are using this stall out of necessity. I know it wouldn't really be the other person's business, but that offer of info may just give them enough to think about that their anger could diffuse.

Have a great day everyone! Love these boards, even the ones that border on HEATED. Thewre is always something I didn't think about offered up.

Beth

 

[Merriwind]

*Even if only people with special needs ever go into those stalls, there will still be times when that stall is occupied when someone who needs it enters the restroom.
*Because there are often lines in restrooms, people need to be considerate, do their business and get out as quickly as possible (realizing that "as quickly as possible" is a relative term.

I think these are particularly important to keep in mind. There is no guarantee for anyone that a bathroom stall will be available the moment they arrive at a restroom. When my DNanni had her stroke and wound up in a wheelchair and needing bathrrom assistance, we devised a plan to help her get to a bathroom before a dire emergency. I hope that this makes sense.

When deciding if it was time to head for the bathroom (and get someone to help), Nanni would imagine that she was at the mall pre-stroke. Now, the mall near her house was basically one long corridor. The restrooms were in the two anchor stores, located on each end of the corridor. She would imagine that she was at the variety store in the middle of the mall. If she would have started heading to the restroom at that point, (when she was walking and doing solo bathroom duty) she would start for the bathroom now in her wheelchair. The walk to the bathroom used to take her probably ten minutes, plus waiting time if there was a line. So, she used this imagery to help her make good decisions about when to get to the bathroom and not waiting until there was an emergency.

Needing a handicapped stall or not, nobody likes to be caught waiting for a stall when they desperately have to go. We actually had a couple of close calls and an accident or two with Nanni before coming up with this imagery plan, but it really worked.

I've thought of my Nanni so many times while reading this thread. Hope her story is helpful to someone.

 

[rascalmom]

The ADA may specify minimum dimension requirements for HA restrooms, but the size is also determined by local building codes. These cannot be less accommodating than the ADA, but you may still see large & smaller restrooms (& different # of restrooms) based on local codes.

We're in the process of building a new office now - building owners must meet inspection requirements in the building process, but as far as I can tell no one distributes "rules" on restroom use. It is simply required to provide accessability - not to monitor whether someone "qualifies". With a parking permit, there are specific laws regarding who can use those parking spaces & a fine for using them improperly. No such thing with restrooms. So, we must depend on courtesy & common sense (in the absense of stated rules by the owner - which I have NEVER seen). I've had to use an ecv during my last couple of trips to WDW because of a broken ankle. The handrails & extra space were helpful while I had the large brace on my leg - but no one (including the Dr. who gave me the required documentation for a temporary parking application) gave me any type of pass that enabled me to use the larger stalls. I expect that many people who are not disabled in any way feel that those stalls are not "reserved" for special use, just "available" to provide accessability to those with special needs. So, we all need to remember that we are dependent on others courtesy & that the general public is probably rarely exposed to the type of information discussed in this conversation & therefore may be less informed.

To the OP - sorry you encountered such a rude person. Kudos to the management!

 

[hentob]

To the OP - sorry you encountered such a rude person. Kudos to the management!

My thoughts exactly. Hugs to the OP.

 

[SueM in MN]

The ADA may specify minimum dimension requirements for HA restrooms, but the size is also determined by local building codes. These cannot be less accommodating than the ADA, but you may still see large & smaller restrooms (& different # of restrooms) based on local codes.

That made me think of something at the hospital where I work.
I was not there when they began renovating the Physical Medicine (OT/PT) Department, but I was there when they finished. For therapy purposees, they wanted to put in several bathrooms (tub, toilet, sink) that were not handicapped accessible so that they could work with patients in the type of bathrooms they would find in their homes. They had a lot of trouble with getting what they wanted - people kept changing the plan to make it acessible. I think it took them 3 times ordering to get a toilet that wasn't a raised seat one.

 

[Talking Hands]

No. You enjoyed blocking them. You enjoyed that they were angry. You "smiled" at their anger.

Yes I did say I was in a *****y mood but that doesn't change the fact that I wasn't going to wet myself for anyone. To get in the stall that was available meant blocking the entrance to the handicapped stall. It happens. You weren't there. I do not appreciate your personal attack on me one bit. GET OFF MY CASE!