New Restrictions to GAC - Our Experience

[Ms_Butterfly]

We were there just after the original poster. We only had to get our GAC out once this past trip (first time using a GAC) and that was for Soarin', where they looked at it and sent us through the FastPass line (a bit awkward, since the regular line wait was listed on the board as 50 min. - I could've used my portable stool to wait that long in line like I used it waiting for the Friendships). My friend was on an ECV, which is pretty tell-tale, and I have my service dog, also usually tell-tale, so even when I did some rides without my friend (she needed to lay down in the First Aid bldg. from pain), I didn't need a GAC, which was good 'cause we were only given one and it was in my friend's name and she is the one who had it.

We got the GAC at MGM and it was easy. We walked in, said we needed a GAC, the lady stamped something on it (I don't know what - I never really got a good look at the thing 'cause my friend had it in her purse the whole time - but she never asked what accommodations we needed), wrote my friend's name on it (I think she may have assumed my dog was my friend's even though I was using my dog [walking/standing with hand on the harness and all]), and gave it to us. I don't recall her highlighting anything and saying it wasn't for getting in the fronts of lines or that it wasn't for going in the FastPass lane.

At rides, sometimes we would ask which entrance to use (easier than getting my PassPorter Special Needs book out to look it up) and other times they would tell us right away or just tell us to follow them and take us where we needed to go (feels a bit weird when they don't tell you why or where you're going, LOL). We didn't get any hassles.

 

[waltfan1957]

I can assure you that "French CM" is one of the best CM's on property.

not from the op's version of events

 

[seashoreCM]

"The GAC is not to be used in the fast pass line" is not entirely correct. You just need to also have a fast pass.

Because many rides have some vehicles that accept wheelchairs and others that do not, the wheelchair guests have to be queued up separately to fill all of the wheelchair slots as they come along. Whether a wheelchair guest will get on before a non-wheelchair guest arriving at the same time will then become luck of the draw.

If a guest cannot wait in a confined area, all that should be done is have that guest wait for roughly the same expected length of time in a different, non-confined, area. If a guest cannot wait under any circumstances I regret I must recommend that he not visit on a date when waiting is generally expected.

It would help if, when you ask the CM at the ride where you should go, that you add words to describe why you would not enter the regular line normally. Say enough so you would need to hand the GAC itself to the CM only if he askes you to.

Disney hints: http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

 

[MBW]

"If a guest cannot wait in a confined area, all that should be done is have that guest wait for roughly the same expected length of time in a different, non-confined, area. If a guest cannot wait under any circumstances I regret I must recommend that he not visit on a date when waiting is generally expected.

You just recommended that thousands of families with profoundly autistic children shouldn't go to WDW/DLR because Disney won't accommodate their needs, correct?

Fortunately, you were not my CM when I took my family, including two autistic children, one who cannot wait under any circumstances (at least without injuring himself and possibly others around him) to DLR in early May, a purportedly less crowded time. Unfortunately, all of our planning was for naught, as the lines were still too long for our son. Lucky for us, the CMs at DLR understood our needs, and went to great lengths to accommodate them, rather than tell us to just suck it up and come back some other day.

In a population of 50,000 guests at any given time at a Disney theme park, there are probably less than .01% who need special accommodations, such as expedited access. Do you think accommodating those five individuals and their families will cause thousands of unscrupulous people to try and cheat the system? Do you think it's acceptable to punish those five individuals because you believe a large number of Disney guests are inherently dishonest?

 

[Hook's Girl]

You just recommended that thousands of families with profoundly autistic children shouldn't go to WDW/DLR because Disney won't accommodate their needs, correct?

Fortunately, you were not my CM when I took my family, including two autistic children, one who cannot wait under any circumstances (at least without injuring himself and possibly others around him) to DLR in early May, a purportedly less crowded time. Unfortunately, all of our planning was for naught, as the lines were still too long for our son. Lucky for us, the CMs at DLR understood our needs, and went to great lengths to accommodate them, rather than tell us to just suck it up and come back some other day.

In a population of 50,000 guests at any given time at a Disney theme park, there are probably less than .01% who need special accommodations, such as expedited access. Do you think accommodating those five individuals and their families will cause thousands of unscrupulous people to try and cheat the system? Do you think it's acceptable to punish those five individuals because you believe a large number of Disney guests are inherently dishonest?

I think what seashore cm was trying to say is that the GAC is not intended to provide immediate access, there will always be some sort of a wait at Walt Disney World.

I would hazard a guess that there are more than .01% of guests who need accomodations but that is way off topic.

 

[MBW]

"The GAC is not to be used in the fast pass line" is not entirely correct. You just need to also have a fast pass.

Because many rides have some vehicles that accept wheelchairs and others that do not, the wheelchair guests have to be queued up separately to fill all of the wheelchair slots as they come along. Whether a wheelchair guest will get on before a non-wheelchair guest arriving at the same time will then become luck of the draw.

If a guest cannot wait in a confined area, all that should be done is have that guest wait for roughly the same expected length of time in a different, non-confined, area. If a guest cannot wait under any circumstances I regret I must recommend that he not visit on a date when waiting is generally expected.

It would help if, when you ask the CM at the ride where you should go, that you add words to describe why you would not enter the regular line normally. Say enough so you would need to hand the GAC itself to the CM only if he askes you to.

Disney hints: http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

I think what seashore cm was trying to say is that the GAC is not intended to provide immediate access, there will always be some sort of a wait at Walt Disney World.

I would hazard a guess that there are more than .01% of guests who need accomodations but that is way off topic.

Seashore CM was pretty specific about the use of the GAC in the FP lane, e.g., you can only use it if you have a FP, which, I know from previous experience, is not always the case. I also know that there are GACs which provide expedited access, again, from personal experience. I think that in most situations where waiting is a concern, allowing the use of the GAC as a FP is an appropriate accommodation. The ADA is pretty specific as to making access "equal" for the disabled, especially if there is no added cost, and thus Disney would comply by allowing a small number of affected individuals through the FP line. In some very specific cases, even the waits in the FP line may make the ride inaccessible, and then Disney should (and has) gone to expedited access. Again, this is in compliance with the ADA, as they already offer such access to certain groups (MAW, etc.) and thus there is no added cost.

If Disney is now making changes to either of these programs without specific consultation with the Department of Justice, I'd expect they'll be facing at least a few lawsuits.

My .01% number is the potential of those who need very special accommodations, such as expedited access. While 1:166 individuals have some form of Autism/PDD, only 1:1000 have profound autism, the kind which could make waiting impossible. I suspect only a fraction of those individuals would even chance a Disney vacation, especially when their caregivers are constantly informed that Disney will not accommodate such needs.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

In a population of 50,000 guests at any given time at a Disney theme park, there are probably less than .01% who need special accommodations, such as expedited access. Do you think accommodating those five individuals and their families will cause thousands of unscrupulous people to try and cheat the system?

Unfortunately, the answer to this question is YES.

The primary reason DLR changed from the Special Assistance Pass to the GAC as used at WDW a few years ago is they were issuing over four times as many SAPs per day as WDW was issuing GACs. Basically they had people getting the FOTL access by lying about having needs, and basically anyone with any disability was given a SAP which had FOTL access.

 

[MBW]

Unfortunately, the answer to this question is YES.

The primary reason DLR changed from the Special Assistance Pass to the GAC as used at WDW a few years ago is they were issuing over four times as many SAPs per day as WDW was issuing GACs. Basically they had people getting the FOTL access by lying about having needs, and basically anyone with any disability was given a SAP which had FOTL access.

I understand this (I've read the whole history many times over while researching our upcoming book), and thoroughly approve of the change both WDW and DLR made, i.e., the GAC is now need-based, not disability-based. The point is, however, is that since Disney instituted their new GAC programs to be in compliance with the ADA, making substantial changes just because now a few people have once again figured out ways to game the system, is not only morally wrong, but potentially a violation of the ADA.

Besides, how many unscrupulous people are we actually talking about now? Are the Fast Pass lines now becoming like the wheelchair/alternative entrance lines of the pre-GAC days, where waits were sometimes longer than the regular lines? The percentage of the population with non-mobility disabilities which could potentially require use of alternative entrances can't be more than 4-5%, and spread out over the huge number of rides and attractions, the impact would be pretty insignificant. Is Disney tracking the number of GACs it provides, and comparing that with disability statistics?

If Disney is truly concerned about fraud, they should enact measures which would cut down on most fraud, and not by effectively punishing those who need the accommodations in order for the parks to be accessible. So far, nothing I've seen from Disney indicates they're going that route - in fact, as I've mentioned, Disney bent over backwards this time (May '07) to make sure our sons had the best trip possible. But there's no harm in being vigilant.

 

[BillSears]

If Disney is now making changes to either of these programs without specific consultation with the Department of Justice, I'd expect they'll be facing at least a few lawsuits.

The point is, however, is that since Disney instituted their new GAC programs to be in compliance with the ADA, making substantial changes just because now a few people have once again figured out ways to game the system, is not only morally wrong, but potentially a violation of the ADA.

I'm not trying to be confrontational and I'm certainly not trying to deny needed accommodations for those with autism. But I am curious about what the official ADA rules are for access in these and other situations at amusement parks. I've always felt that Disney goes above and beyond the ADA laws with regards to accessibility so I was wondering if the official government mandated rules were actually written up anywhere and what they were.

 

[MBW]

I'm not trying to be confrontational and I'm certainly not trying to deny needed accommodations for those with autism. But I am curious about what the official ADA rules are for access in these and other situations at amusement parks. I've always felt that Disney goes above and beyond the ADA laws with regards to accessibility so I was wondering if the official government mandated rules were actually written up anywhere and what they were.

Ah, Bill, I would never take a request for information as confrontational . A few years back, I decided to finally read the ADA regulations for myself, and was so surprised as to how (mis)represented they often were. Now, I constantly remind myself to "read the labels" rather than let someone else do it for me. I heartily applaud you for doing the same.

Here's the DoJ's ADA Regulations site: www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/publicat.htm

And I agree that Disney does an excellent job, and think it's in part because they have gone to great lengths in the past to consult with the DoJ. However, while accessibility issues for mobility-challenged individuals has been at the forefront for years, it's only recently that private businesses have had to confront accessibity for non-mobility issues, particularly those other than sight/hearing related. The GAC, particularly the one we have, meets almost all of our sons' needs, making the park truly accessible. I just want to make sure that continues, and for people who really need it to know the accommodations exist.

 

[BillSears]

OK looking through the documentation I found this:

Sec.36.302 Modifications in policies, practices, or procedures.

(a) General. A public accommodation shall make reasonable modifications in policies, practices, or procedures, when the modifications are necessary to afford goods, services,facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations to individuals with disabilities, unless the public accommodation can demonstrate that making the modifications would fundamentally alter the nature of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations.

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/reg3a.html#Anchor-36000

Which does seem to indicate allowing those with disabilities that prevent them from waiting to be allowed to get access that would fit their needs. But I'm not a lawyer so I'm just guessing.

 

[MBW]

Well, Bill, maybe you need to rethink your career and apply for law school, as that's it (the governing clause)

 

[kaytieeldr]

The percentage of the population with non-mobility disabilities which could potentially require use of alternative entrances can't be more than 4-5%, and spread out over the huge number of rides and attractions, the impact would be pretty insignificant.

Um, it would be 4-5% (or whatever the actual rate) at each ride and attraction.
Say you've got 10,000 Guests. Five percent, or 500, require alternate entrances for various reasons.
You have ten attractions and the Guests divide evenly among them. That's 1,000 Guests per attraction, with still five percent of the Guests at each attraction require alternate access. Now, granted, that's "only" fifty people, but it's still five percent.

 

[Forevryoung]

The percentage of the population with non-mobility disabilities which could potentially require use of alternative entrances can't be more than 4-5%, and spread out over the huge number of rides and attractions, the impact would be pretty insignificant. Is Disney tracking the number of GACs it provides, and comparing that with disability statistics?

If Disney is truly concerned about fraud, they should enact measures which would cut down on most fraud, and not by effectively punishing those who need the accommodations in order for the parks to be accessible. So far, nothing I've seen from Disney indicates they're going that route - in fact, as I've mentioned, Disney bent over backwards this time (May '07) to make sure our sons had the best trip possible. But there's no harm in being vigilant.

Few things-

1) How do you supposed they enact measures to cut down on fraud while making it easier for those who need it to get a GAC easily? Truthfully, I don't think anyone who needs a GAC should be afraid to get one but I don't necessarily think it could be "easy" while minimizing fraud.

2) I don't necessarily think that the statistics will match up between those using a GAC and the national disability statistics. In every day life, I do just fine but at Disney, I need accommodations. It's a whole different ball game, between just being on vacation, the crowds, the stimulation... you understand I'm sure. And on the other hand, I'm sure that there are people who need accommodations in every day life and don't need them at Disney (wheelchair users come to mind) because everything is already accessible to them.

I think that changes in the GAC over time are inevitable. I also believe that when it comes to the GAC, experiences are extremely unique depending on a multitude of factors that can not be predetermined. Threads like this (the OP) are there to be informative, they have more of a tendency to cause worry and panic regarding other families future trips. Each post like this must be taken with a grain of salt.

(For clarification, before I'm accused of anything, I'm not saying that the PPs were lying regarding the changes, I'm basing my thought process on the fact that their posts can solely be in regards to what their experiences were at that point in time and may or may not be the next person's experience)

 

[MBW]

Few things-

1) How do you supposed they enact measures to cut down on fraud while making it easier for those who need it to get a GAC easily? Truthfully, I don't think anyone who needs a GAC should be afraid to get one but I don't necessarily think it could be "easy" while minimizing fraud.

Disney has done a pretty good job of minimizing fraud in other areas - I suspect with help from the DoJ, they could come up with a solution which follows the letter of the law (ADA). I think there will always be people who are able to scam the system (someone is sellig their Magic FastPasses on Ebay right now), but the goal is to cut that back without impinging on the rights of the disabled.

2) I don't necessarily think that the statistics will match up between those using a GAC and the national disability statistics. In every day life, I do just fine but at Disney, I need accommodations. It's a whole different ball game, between just being on vacation, the crowds, the stimulation... you understand I'm sure. And on the other hand, I'm sure that there are people who need accommodations in every day life and don't need them at Disney (wheelchair users come to mind) because everything is already accessible to them.

Despite the fact I also have a disability which may eventually reduce or remove my mobility (MS), my focus on the GAC is from an almost purely neurological point-of-view. Disney is in fact very accessible for many with mobility issues, and so many don't need the GAC. I think Disney should (and maybe they already are) track the type of accommodation requested, and see if that correlates to known "invisible" disability statistics. At least they'd have a real sense, rather than just anecdotes, as to whether fraud was in fact rampant once again.

I think that changes in the GAC over time are inevitable. I also believe that when it comes to the GAC, experiences are extremely unique depending on a multitude of factors that can not be predetermined. Threads like this (the OP) are there to be informative, they have more of a tendency to cause worry and panic regarding other families future trips. Each post like this must be taken with a grain of salt.

Frankly, I'd like to see the GAC expanded for people who really need it, like the OP. I also know that, since I became much more well versed on the actual law, I no longer get panicked when I read posts like this. I know if I get some CM who doesn't know the law, I'll push all the way to corporate legal.

But I do get concerned when people feel, out of fear of losing their rights, that they have to downplay the accommodations the GAC can actually make - such as expedited access - because it means people who would only come to Disney if they knew it was truly available, won't come.

Maybe changes do need to be made. Disney claims that its GAC is need-, not diagnosis-based, and yet it provides a blanket accommodation to a class of individuals based on diagnoses (life-threatening illness, past or present,) not need. I think there may be a need to take a closer look at that potential "loophole" before closing the door completely on those individual for which Disney is not accessible without such accommodations as expedited access to attractions (which is clearly available under the law, though few want to admit it.) Just as there are unscrupulous individuals who have no problem faking a disability, there are those who buy MAW buttons on Ebay. If Disney is able to control fraud for the latter without impinging on those programs, they can do the same and follow the letter of the law for the disabled who need appropriate accommodation for equal access.

 

[MEM]

Hi, OP here. Part of me regrets posting about my experience because I see it has upset some folks. Part of me is glad I did share my experience because a lot of useful discussion ensued.

To reiterate - on our May 2007 trip I brought last year's GAC to the Epcot CM to make things easier and that's when the CM made a point of saying as he issued the new GAC this is NOT to be used in the FastPass line (we repeated "NOT in the FastPass line?") to make sure we heard correctly. We are Disney veterans so its not like we did not know what to ask for or how the GAC works I realize its a courtesy and not an entitlement so we did not press the issue by asking to see a manager. When DH tried to explain what DS needs, we got the "He'll have to learn to wait" remark.

After all this useful discussion, I am still not sure if the GAC policy has been modified or not or just that we had a unique experience. Thanks to everyone, especially the CMs, for their input. We're heading down again in August, prepared for just about anything.

 

[Princess Stitch]

I hope you enjoy your August trip! Don't forget as well, if you get a GAC the first day that is not meeting your needs, you should go back to guest services and get a new one issued. Sometimes it's hard to anticipate what you need ahead of time. I've heard of people getting them changed after the first day if they weren't working out, so I'm sure you can do that too (I'm also sure someone will correct me if I"m wrong).

 

[Forevryoung]

MBW, I understand your post. I guess I just question the feasibility of it especially if it is advertised as available (anything is possible though ). But expedited access could be used in a variety of situations where it IS a need but has the extreme potential to be overused or overgeneralized.

Example: There are two rides that I can not go on due to the design of the que and the building. I can get a fast pass but that doesn't help. That is still 10 minutes at the least of me struggling not to panic and stay out of meltdown mode (which would require me going to at least first aid if not my hotel room to calm down).

Do I NEED expedited access to ride those attractions because it would enable me to experience them? Yes and no. I would never accept it because I would fear that every time I showed my GAC, I would be given expedited access when all I really need is that exact access at those TWO attractions. The rest of the time, whatever help a CM can give me (fast pass etc) works just fine.

And to top it off, how would I go about getting that access without appearing to be a fraud? I'm a healthy 22 year old giddy with excitement to be at Disney.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

Hi Everyone

I think that the original poster's questions and concerns have been answered. There have been some arguments and recriminations, lots of repeating, and I have been thinking of closing this thread for a few days now.

However, rather than locking it now, maybe it will die a peaceful death. Depending on what is posted to it in the future, don't be surprised if Sue or I lock it.

 

[daughtersrus]

We haven't been to Disney is a few years and never actually got a GAC since my DD uses a wheelchair. The CM would come up to us. If I remember correctly, some of the rides that offered FP still pulled out wheelchair guests and had us go into a different line. Have they changed things?