MK no longer "dry"????

[Joshua_me]

*sniff* *sniff*

What's that I smell ? A thread that's about to be locked ?

Yeah, probably. But, let me get these two points in...

1) As any High School debate team knows, the "slippery slope" argument is an easy way out. A cheat, at best.

To wit:

"We'd better not do this now or next year we could all be attacked by hungry grizzly bears."

"Well, golly, I don't want to be attacked by hungry grizzly bears, so I guess it's for the best that we not do it."

Puh-leeze.

What's the actual "slippery slope" that we are talking about, here ?

First, beer and wine in Fantasyland, next year an opium den in Liberty Square.

C'mon now, that's silly and I would hope that all of you know that.

2) Walt's wishes didn't include $600 a night hotel rooms or grossly over-priced, sub-par hamburgers, but we all seem to be OK with that...

To vaguely echo Kevin's thoughts, I don't understand this demonization of alcohol. The "Food and Wine Festival" is celebrated, but a martini at Tony's Town Square would be the end of the "world" ?

I guess I just don't get it.

 

[disney david]

I have not heard of a lawsuit.
It would not surprise me if Disney wanted a certain 'look' which might not include people with certain disabilities.
But, when Disneyland opened,most people with disabilities were pretty 'invisible'. Many with severe disabilities were in communal living situation, even as young children. And, many did not have the money to travel. Since there were no laws saying people with disabilities had to be educated, many were not included in regular school classrooms.

But, I have to say that we have noticed people with visible disabilities working at WDW since our first trip with someone in a wheelchair in 1987, so if someone says people with disABILITIES working there is a recent thing, they re not correct.
There are more (many more) now, but there were some earlier.

They was talking about Disney land when Walt Disney was still alive.

 

[gmboy95]

This is much ado about nothing IMO......if u are going to charge the prices they do in these MK resteraunts, then the adult paying those prices ought to be able to avail themselves of a cocktail or two at dinner!

 

[*NikkiBell*]

One of the great things about our community here on the DIS is that it offers individuals the opportunity to share their thoughts about a variety of topics including those that some people have very strong opinions about; this is one such case. I've been enjoying the discussion, but feel that it does have the potential to cross a line similar to posts others are passionate about (politics, religion, the segway debate, etc.).

As long as the conversation is kept to its original focus (see the first post) and remains respectful, it will remain open.

 

[WebmasterMike]

Someone referred to John Lasseter as a pusher because he makes wine... I just have to shake my head.

Anything that John Lasseter has been involved with in the past few years, he has used to push/market his wine. So, yes! He pushes his wine.

 

[Mike7468]

I am a little unconcerned over this, do i think it should stay dry, Yes. But It's not like they are tgifridays or applebees, its not natural light they are buying, the prices go from i think $8 up for glasses of wine and start at 6.25 for beer. These are supposed to be high quality drinks that go with the meal. I've been to a few tables service meals in my day and I dont think the CM waiting on them is going to bring a drink every 5 minutes or so, unless they are working for a huge tip. There may also be a drink limit set, some places have a two drink minimum, maybe they will have a 2 drink max. Will I partake in a beverage there? No that is my choice.
As far as Walts Wishes I can go for that but if it was something that was said to Roy, or others involved not much they can do to prove it. Don't know how mauch control in Disney the "Disney" family has now, but if its more of a corporate control now. They will be out of luck. Just my 2 cents!

 

[mdvlprof]

This thread is still alive???
I just don't see the big deal. Most cultures don't equate 'family friendly' with 'no alcohol'.
WD has been gone for a long time. Who knows? - he may have changed his mind about a lot of things.

 

[DisneyKevin]

Yes indeed he did but but he said that many years ago but that does not seem to count anymore!!!!!!

I am not trying to negate what Walt did, said or wished would happen.

I am merely pointing out that not everything Walt wanted has come to fruition.

What is it about alcohol being served in the MK has people so upset, when Walt's other wishes, wants, desires etc go unnoticed.

Why is this one thing such a sticking point.

Why is alcohol being served in Carsland okay and alcohol served in Fantasyland worthy of a call to Guest Relations?

Think of the things that have changed since 1966.

The Civil Rights Act was only two years old when Walt died.

We live in a much different world than we did when this decision was made.

 

[mjtm610]

Walt was born in 1901!!! That would make him 111. We should remember when we quote "Walt's Wishes" that he probably had a lot of wishes. He probably cared more about some than others, he probably changed his mind on some things. It was a different time.
I am all about retaining the Vision Walt had. If Disneyland and WDW stayed as they were when Walt was still running the day to day...there would be no progress, no future visions. Think of all the wonderful things that have come about since 1970.
The argument about alcohol in the MK is not about drinking wine or beer. It's about change. If it was about alcohol there would not be any served in any of the parks. Some people have trouble with change. That's OK. We will all have to wait and see how this works out.
Personally, I don't care one way or another. I just want to see all the changes yet to come!

 

[AndyPok1]

I agree, but I think there is something to there being a "mindset" that people know MK is dry so I think many respect that (not all of course) and for those who don't respect it and bring alcohol in, they are more careful and make an effort not to be obvious about it.

This is my take on it personally. I know plenty of people that feel they need to get (at a minimum) buzzed on a vacation. One in particular enjoys a certain mixed drink, so he brings it into the parks with him... Except MK.

Those that know me, know that I enjoy my alcohol. However, one of my biggest theories on life that I encourage everyone to follow is time and place. There are very few activities that are never permissible, simply a proper time and place to do them. My thought is that this addition to BOG may remove the "dry" distinction from people's minds, and suddenly it is an ok place.

But I agree with Kevin. If you want to be anti it, that's fine. I think I lean more anti than pro, all I ask is that you have a defense beyond Walt didn't want it. That quit being a valid point years ago. And I also agree with Skip, the blog title irked me a tad bit, mainly because I've never seen or read anything about it in reference to WDW.

 

[DisneyKevin]

The argument about alcohol in the MK is not about drinking wine or beer. It's about change. Some people have trouble with change.

Brilliant!

You may have found the bottom line.

 

[KKDonaldFan]

Yep. I think this is what this thread is really about. People are afraid of change. As for my personal opinion, I have no issue with it. If they are opening a French restaurant and want to introduce French wines and Belgian beers, then it is fine by me.

I can respect people wanting to keep the park dry and keep talking about Walt and what he wanted. Walt is dead. I know that is blunt to say...but it is true.

People are just afraid of change and start dwelling on conspiracy. If it is allowed in one restaurant, then they are afraid that a beer stand is going to open on every street corner in the park....which isn't happening. It is one restaurant. The reality is that change happens...and will continue to happen.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

Yep. I think this is what this thread is really about. People are afraid of change. As for my personal opinion, I have no issue with it. If they are opening a French restaurant and want to introduce French wines and Belgian beers, then it is fine by me.

I can respect people wanting to keep the park dry and keep talking about Walt and what he wanted. Walt is dead. I know that is blunt to say...but it is true.

People are just afraid of change and start dwelling on conspiracy. If it is allowed in one restaurant, then they are afraid that a beer stand is going to open on every street corner in the park....which isn't happening. It is one restaurant. The reality is that change happens...and will continue to happen.

I'll second that.

Sent from my Samsung Galexy Ace using the DISBoards app

 

[Justin Jett]

(politics, religion, the segway debate, etc.).

Politics, religion, and Segways. I like it.

Ok, my last post:

Whether or not there is alcohol is a Disney park really doesnt matter to me. I will still go either way. I have an ADR for November 19, 2012 at Be Our Guest. Will I order alcohol? If I am with people who do not drink, I will not order it. I totally understand people's feelings about alcohol.

My point is that if something is stated as fact or common knowledge, it should be easy/common to find supporting information. People are entitled to state their opinions and feelings, but common knowledge should be easy to backup.

Dictionary.com defines Common Knowledge as: something widely or generally known.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/common+knowledge

Walt's wishes regarding alcohol in Disneyland is indeed common knowledge, but I question this where the Florida property is concerned. Also, as Kevin has said, it is not clear how Walt would feel in 2012, unless there is documentation forbidding alcohol sales at anytime in the future. I do agree that Walt's documented wishes should be upheld.

To end this on a light-hearted note:

How would Walt feel about Duffy the Bear?

 

[DisneyKevin]

Above and beyond anything else, Walt was a businessman.

He was also a creative genius with a knack for surrounding himself with other creative genius'.

Pretty much everyone that posts on these boards has a love of Disney and we all owe a debt of gratitude for how Disney has enriched our lives.

After doing a bit of research, it's pretty clear that Walt kept the original Magic Kingdom dry to separate and elevate his park from what was available at the time.

We read the information about the roadside attractions, seedy carnivals and run down amusement parks and his dislike of them. We've also all read the story about how an idea for a different kind of park came to him while he was spending "Dad's day" at the carousel with his daughters.

Walt want a place where adults and kids could have fun together and not serving alcohol set him apart from the competition.

Much has changed since then and Disney has shown that alcohol can be served in a family friendly environment (DCA, DHS, EPCOT, AK, Blizzard Beach, Typhoon Lagoon, Pleasure Island, DTD, Disney's West Side, AMC 24....pretty much everywhere) without endangering the well being of children.

Walt did a great job setting himself apart. He created greatness. But he was also working in the era in which he lived. Walt saw his park as ever changing and ever growing. As time's have changed since 1966 when Walt passed, it's my opinion that we also need to see the parks as ever changing and growing. That, in my opinion, would be honoring "what Walt would have wanted."

We might not agree with everything that is changed, but Disney is very good at many things.....one of them is fixing what is broken. If this doesnt work, it will be fixed.

With that being said.....I have little left to add.

 

[skier_pete]

Walt did a great job setting himself apart. He created greatness. But he was also working in the era in which he lived. Walt saw his park as ever changing and ever growing. As time's have changed since 1966 when Walt passed, it's my opinion that we also need to see the parks as ever changing and growing. that, in my opinion, would be honoring "what Walt would have wanted."

Very well put, Kevin!

What is really to love about the Disney parks was the fact that Walt's revolutionary vision of 60+ years ago still holds up today as still the standard-bearer for theme park experiences. Other parks may have come closer, but Disney is still the gold standard.

So, it makes me wonder if this really is that big a deal to many people. Yeah, sure...people are saying "I don't like it" on a message board, but is ONE single person going to change there opinions of Disney World based on THIS? Or even write letters of complaint? It really is a trivial issue compared to real potential concerns with Disney (pricing and service complaints are the first that come to mind).

 

[FireDancer]

Eh, I admit I really never understood the "what would Walt think" mentality. I give as much thought to what Walt would think about something that the current Disney company does as I do to what N.K. Fairbank would think about a new scent of Tide or what Caleb Bradham would think about the newest Pepsi commercial (read: less thought than I do about the weather on Pluto).

Selling alcohol makes money, it fits the theme, why pass up revenue because of some mis-placed sense of nostalgia?

 

[coopersmom]

I honestly have no strong feelings about this either way, but admit to being surprised (shocked even?) at the outrage, passion and general vitriol this (what felt like to me) fairly minor dining announcement has elicited.

I mean, I would absolutely get it if this was a Disney property first. Or even the first Disney venue in Florida serving alcohol. Then, by all means, cue the controversy and "What would Walt say?" commentary. (Even though, like others, I think that's a fairly silly argument to make.) But, honestly, with alcohol not only readily available, but basically front and center, at just about EVERY other Disney-owned or operated park, hotel, restaurant, food truck or drink cart, this seems like a tempest in a tea pot (or a wine bottle, if you prefer). ALL other Disney parks serve copious amounts of hooch, of all kinds. It is clearly a huge profit center.

As for the "slippery slope" ... Honestly, to think they won't eventually expand it is fairly naive. I mean, maybe it will just be in this one place with special distinction. But my guess is that, yes, eventually alcohol will be just as available in the Magic Kingdom as it is in EPCOT, Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios. And, frankly, I don't think it has "ruined" any of those parks, for children or anyone else.

Yes, there are those who don't like alcohol in any form. And, yes, there are those who abuse it. But catering to either minority (tee-totalers who refuse even be in the vicinity of booze or those who have unacknowledged and/or untreated problem with alcohol) is not only short-sighted, but also a poor business decision on Disney's part ... And Disney IS a business.

What I don't get with all the people so up in arms is, don't they understand they won't be REQUIRED to drink? Are there really people out there who ONLY visit the Magic Kingdom and avoid the other Disney parks solely because alcohol is offered for sale? Who go only to restaurants and counter service locales that do NOT offer beer, wine or other spirits? I'm guessing those people MIGHT exist, somewhere, but they aren't the people posting here with such outrage.

To me, doing something like "Drinking Around the World," sounds fairly unpleasant. But for others it's a hoot. I certainly don't think it should be forbidden just because I, personally, have decided it's not for me. I also don't think it's enough to protest just because it may, just possibly, given the exact right set of circumstances, briefly negatively impact me, should I happen to run into someone who's had a few too many. The POSSIBILITY that I, or any other guest, could, potentially, have an encounter with someone who has over-imbibed, is hardly a good reason to limit all spirits. The same as the potential to be knocked in the shins by a stroller is not reason enough to eliminate all rolling baby carriers.

In general, the world (Disney World, and the world at large) is better off when people worry a lot more about what they do themselves (me, included), and a lot less about what other people do.

Call me crazy, but I'm guessing there will be zero impact on the Magic Kingdom experience for my family, or any other.

 

[ShesAPirate]

What I don't get with all the people so up in arms is, don't they understand they won't be REQUIRED to drink? Are there really people out there who ONLY visit the Magic Kingdom and avoid the other Disney parks solely because alcohol is offered for sale? Who go only to restaurants and counter service locales that do NOT offer beer, wine or other spirits?

In general, the world (Disney World, and the world at large) is better off when people worry a lot more about what they do themselves (me, included), and a lot less about what other people do.

Call me crazy, but I'm guessing there will be zero impact on the Magic Kingdom experience for my family, or any other.

Thank you, thank you, thank you (for everything you wrote, but especially the sentence I bolded)!!!

 

[BayouMickey]

Technically, walt said that about DL.. not MK.. But because MK was a 90% mirror image of DL people assume it was meant for MK as well.. Walt died before the Park was finished, he never said one way or the other regarding MK.