Magic Key Renewals Start 8/18

[bwvBound]

Especially since MK means Magic Kingdom and Magic Key…
maybe it should be MK and MKey or something .

Context is everything! One is used at WDW and the other is used at DLR. They don't "touch"?

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

Understood... Here are some examples of what I was reading.

MiceChat
Magic Keys first became available on August 25th of 2021. Many of those passes are just about to expire. You have 30 days to renew to a new Magic Key from the date your pass expires.

Foxla News
You have 30 days to renew to a new Magic Key from the date your pass expires. When you renew, you can choose to stay at your current pass level or choose any other Magic Key that might be better for you.

I don't know the dates those statements were published, but all Magic Key holders need to throw out everything that applied to the Magic Key VERSION 1 -- because this is VERSION 2. (The versions language is my own. Disney doesn't use it. Think of all MKeys issued on or after August 18, 2022 as version 2.)

As of AUGUST 18, 2022, the renewal rules are different for Magic Keys. The Disney websites say you can renew 30 days prior to expiration. Upon expiration, the key is over - done - kaput! You cannot renew or extend something that is no longer valid. (The sole exception Disney is making is for keys that expired on or after May 29, 2022 and prior to August 18, 2022 because Disney had locked out renewals and was not ready to roll out MKeys version 2. So, Disney is making a correction there.)

So, even if MiceChat or FOXLA News published those statements today, they are either wrong now or it is not current information. Ignore them. What Disney says now rules.

 

[SOCALMouseMommy]

Might get ugly for MK holders and Disney if they think they can renew 30 days after expiration.

Oh yes, it really could get ugly. I hope Disney puts something on the website that makes it absolutely clear. I mean, they can't control what outside media is posting and sharing.

 

[DLRExpert]

Oh yes, it really could get ugly. I hope Disney puts something on the website that makes it absolutely clear. I mean, they can't control what outside media is posting and sharing.

I assume outside sources get their information from Disney especially these examples and many more.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

I assume outside sources get their information from Disney especially these examples and many more.

Do not assume such a thing! Not at all.

If they do they generally state in the article that "a Disney spokesperson" or "a Disney insider" or "Mr. Bob Chapek, CEO of Disney, said at a ________ meeting." But many times articles and blogs get their information from Twitter, or another blog site. So, watch for the source of the information. But, by far, your source of information for the terms and conditions of your Magic Keys should always be either what the Disney official website says or a call to the passholder line and talk to a CM about something this important. You should not get advice on something like this from a social media forum. What if they are wrong and you miss your window to renew? You would be out in the cold without a Magic Key for who knows how long!

 

[twodogs]

Honestly, it's the pessimism that grinds me a bit. I'm not a fan of blind hypothesizing of the worst-case scenario. We're literally in day one of renewals - they wouldn't be going to this much trouble to let people renew if they were just going to stop offering renewals on Friday.

Could it happen? I mean, sure - anything's possible. But I don't think what you're describing is likely at all.

All of the MK pulls in the last year happened for specific reasons. The Dream Key and Believe Key went away because the holiday season was already sold out, which rendered it pointless to continue selling. Plus, capacity was low enough back then that they didn't need more of them. (Also, in the case of the Dream Key, possibly the lawsuit.) Enchant and Imagine got pulled in May because they were blocked out for the summer and they didn't want people to upgrade from tickets as a backdoor around the blockouts. (I understand if people were planning on doing that, but that would be a tremendous discount for a pass that wasn't valid at the time the person was actually in the park - I can't really blame Disney for finally closing that loophole.)

In reality, the "unfavorable attendance mix" was not an attack on APs - it was actually an admission that they have to have APs - they can't fill the parks with ticket buyers alone. (That's why you keep seeing more AP availability the night before a park day - they're releasing some of the space that they were holding for last-minute ticket buyers.) With the lower-tier Keys in particular, they're selling otherwise-unfilled space at a discount - because they have to. That's the whole reason they rushed the MK program out there last year - they weren't selling enough tickets.

And, right now, capacity is higher than it was when they started selling MKs last year. There's almost certainly room for more of them than there are now - and they really can't afford to lose the ones they already have. Statistically speaking, a lot of people are not going to renew - they're going to eventually need to bring in new MK holders.

We've spent weeks with the board predicting doom and gloom - I think a lot of folks were expecting them to cancel the MK program entirely. But here we are, renewals in hand. It makes sense to have at least some sense of optimism at the moment.

What's happening now is a pretty solidly good situation for most folks - no reason to imagine the worst until something bad actually happens.

In my view, some of the outcomes that you cite here as support for the position that Disney "needs" MK holders (at the current level or even higher levels) and that no one should have concerns "until something bad actually happens" are the same outcomes that I would argue support the fact that Disney wants MKs in certain situations but has also shown that they will do things that benefit Disney but might be detrimental to MK holders at any time, and often without much or any notice.

When they stopped selling Dream and Believe because the "holiday season was already sold out", that seems premature because many MKs on these boards often post that reservations are always available the night before, even if they look sold out further in advance. So is any period of weeks in a row ever really fully sold out or will some park reservations slots open up as the days get closer? Disney wanted to stop people from buying these because they were blowing them up on social media for lack of park reservations, threatening/executing a class action lawsuit and costing them a lot of good will. So I think it was motivated by Disney trying to fix their own problem, not due to a holiday sell out.

When they stopped selling lower level passes in the summer, they technically closed a loophole. If that is the reason Disney did that, they knowingly screwed people (probably some on these boards, since this topic of upgrading a ticket during a block out has been much-discussed for years on here) who may have bought multi-day, non-refundable tickets months in advance so they could get park reservations, and then had planned to upgrade to a MK at the end of their trip. As MANY people on these boards have been doing for many, many years. I don't think these folks were trying to cheat the system via a loophole; they were doing something that was completely allowed by Disney in the ticket/AP terms and conditions. Then suddenly, these people could not upgrade. Maybe they would not have bought the tickets if the option to upgrade were not available when they bought the tickets. To me, this is again Disney doing something that helps them and hurts some guests, without warning.

When Disney opens up last minute availability of park reservations, this tells me Disney wants the MK holders in the park, but only as a last resort if they can't get the higher profit-per-guest of the day ticket guest. If I am a MK holder, this does not make me feel valued or "needed" by Disney. And at some point, if the parks get so crowded that day-ticket guest attendance drops, Disney can tighten the reservations for MK holders even more. And management and the shareholders will call that a win. In the future, they may be (or may be already) at a point where they can "stand to lose" some of the MK holders that they have, so long as they can replace them with more profitable day tickets guests. They want to drive share price; they "need" whatever type of guest does that the most effectively.

I am not predicting a worst-case scenerio. I am not predicting doom and gloom. I am pointing to the way Disney has treated the MK holders in the last year as an indication that this behavior will likely continue as long as it increases the share price for Disney. And it may be at the detriment of the MK holders, as I think it has been during the last year (and I say this as a person who had an AP pre-COVID). And it may come without warning. So waiting for something bad to happen and then reacting may leave some guests holding a pass that doesn't do what they expected or tickets that can't be upgraded or a plan to buy a pass that they now can't buy. Each person has to decide their own risk tolerance for their interactions with Disney going forward; you sound very optimitic, and that is ok too.

 

[brightlined]

I am not predicting a worst-case scenerio. I am not predicting doom and gloom. I am pointing to the way Disney has treated the MK holders in the last year as an indication that this behavior will likely continue as long as it increases the share price for Disney. And it may be at the detriment of the MK holders, as I think it has been during the last year (and I say this as a person who had an AP pre-COVID). And it may come without warning. So waiting for something bad to happen and then reacting may leave some guests holding a pass that doesn't do what they expected or tickets that can't be upgraded or a plan to buy a pass that they now can't buy. Each person has to decide their own risk tolerance for their interactions with Disney going forward; you sound very optimitic, and that is ok too.

I had a longer reaction, but I'll just drill this down to the basics.

You're (understandably) upset because you were expecting to be able to get an Enchant Key for $200 or an Imagine Key for free after buying (and using) a 5-day ticket this summer. And you're arguing that because Disney rescinded that offer without notice, that they might cancel the MKs at any time.

The upgrade offer was there as a gift to ticket buyers - essentially allowing them to pretend they'd bought and used a pass on day one. If the pass was blocked out during that timeframe, then it's an immediate loss to Disney. I'm honestly surprised that Disney ever allowed someone to upgrade to a blocked-out pass - either way, they certainly had no obligation to continue allowing people to do so, or to provide advance warning that they were going to stop.

Essentially, it'd be like paying full price for a full Enchant Key, having every available day on it at your disposal, and getting five days during the summer for free.

I mean, I paid full price for an Enchant Key, and I didn't get five free summer days out of it.

I understand being disappointed, but that's a ridiculous deal by any stretch of the imagination. Killing it doesn't mean that that they hate MKs or plan to cancel the program in the next six months. It just means they got tired of people taking advantage of an absurd deal. It was an offer, not something that anyone was entitled to as part of the AP program.

Of all the weird business decisions they've made in the last few years, that one's pretty low on my list of ones I'm upset about.


As far as the rest - there has always been the inevitability that one day, DLR would be able to sell out the parks solely with ticketed guests. Disney knows this - remember that the reservation system was in development before COVID.

Yes, the program might change, and might be eliminated. But we're not there yet.

 

[twodogs]

I had a longer reaction, but I'll just drill this down to the basics.

You're (understandably) upset because you were expecting to be able to get an Enchant Key for $200 or an Imagine Key for free after buying (and using) a 5-day ticket this summer. And you're arguing that because Disney rescinded that offer without notice, that they might cancel the MKs at any time.

The upgrade offer was there as a gift to ticket buyers - essentially allowing them to pretend they'd bought and used a pass on day one. If the pass was blocked out during that timeframe, then it's an immediate loss to Disney. I'm honestly surprised that Disney ever allowed someone to upgrade to a blocked-out pass - either way, they certainly had no obligation to continue allowing people to do so, or to provide advance warning that they were going to stop.

Essentially, it'd be like paying full price for a full Enchant Key, having every available day on it at your disposal, and getting five days during the summer for free.

I mean, I paid full price for an Enchant Key, and I didn't get five free summer days out of it.

I understand being disappointed, but that's a ridiculous deal by any stretch of the imagination. Killing it doesn't mean that that they hate MKs or plan to cancel the program in the next six months. It just means they got tired of people taking advantage of an absurd deal. It was an offer, not something that anyone was entitled to as part of the AP program.

Of all the weird business decisions they've made in the last few years, that one's pretty low on my list of ones I'm upset about.


As far as the rest - there has always been the inevitability that one day, DLR would be able to sell out the parks solely with ticketed guests. Disney knows this - remember that the reservation system was in development before COVID.

Yes, the program might change, and might be eliminated. But we're not there yet.

Unfortunately, when the MKs came out after the COVID closure, they did not work for our family, so we did not plan to purchase one. We have high school aged children who don’t like to miss school. We have to travel on weekends or school holidays, and we live in Texas, so a flight is also involved. Most of the MKs blocked out some or all of our normal travel times, other than the most expensive MK. My work commitments don’t allow for last minute travel plans, so it just wouldn’t work for us. So we have just bought regular tickets for our trips since COVID.

That is to say, all of the things that have transpired with MKs did not affect me directly at all. It did sadden me, though, to see how some of the decisions by Disney with regard to MKs impacted folks on these boards. Over the last 11 years, I have benefited so much from the wonderful people on these boards that have offered advice, support, and endless tips for the trips that I have planned for my family. I have even had the good fortune to meet some of them in person in the parks over the years, and that has been amazing. So when I read their frustrations about what was happening with their MKs last year and this year, I took it to heart.

 

[Bcarrier1983]

My question about closing the MK upgrade from a regular ticket 'loophole' by not selling MKs in the summer worked this year, but does this mean that they'll do this every year? Or just remove/limit the ability to upgrade altogether?

 

[kristensideaoffun]

My question about closing the MK upgrade from a regular ticket 'loophole' by not selling MKs in the summer worked this year, but does this mean that they'll do this every year? Or just remove/limit the ability to upgrade altogether?

This is really just speculation. While not selling keys during this time does close that loophole, it also means Disney is leaving money on the table from people who would pay to upgrade to Keys. I doubt it this loophole was the primary reason Disney stopped selling Keys, and I also doubt Disney will stop selling Keys every summer just because of it.

 

[brightlined]

My question about closing the MK upgrade from a regular ticket 'loophole' by not selling MKs in the summer worked this year, but does this mean that they'll do this every year? Or just remove/limit the ability to upgrade altogether?

Assuming they're selling MKs next summer:

I think they'll continue letting people upgrade. I just think they'll either stop selling the blocked-out passes (Enchant and Imagine) during the summer, same as this year - or just make it so upgrading to those passes isn't possible while they're blocked out.

There's just too much money for them to lose by letting people do that. They could probably turn a blind eye to it in years past, but I think they're fully aware of it now, especially now that Disney has made it clear that they're more revenue-driven. I think the new MK plan draws a circle around the fact that Disney sees accessibility during the popular seasons as a perk for the top-tier passes, and there's no good reason to let people walk around that.

 

[kristensideaoffun]

Assuming they're selling MKs next summer:

I think they'll continue letting people upgrade. I just think they'll either stop selling the blocked-out passes (Enchant and Imagine) during the summer, same as this year - or just make it so upgrading to those passes isn't possible while they're blocked out.

There's just too much money for them to lose by letting people do that. They could probably turn a blind eye to it in years past, but I think they're fully aware of it now, especially now that Disney has made it clear that they're more revenue-driven. I think the new MK plan draws a circle around the fact that Disney sees accessibility during the popular seasons as a perk for the top-tier passes, and there's no good reason to let people walk around that.

I guess I just don’t understand how allowing people to upgrade to the lower-tier Keys from tickets is such a big loss for Disney. People who purchase tickets to use during the summer have 5 days of use max before they are forced to upgrade or lose the value. So it’s not like these people are packing the parks every day of the summer. They can’t use their Keys to visit the following summer unless they purchase day tickets again or upgrade to a Key they can use during the summer. That customer also didn’t get any Key discounts on food or drinks during the summer if they didn’t upgrade until the end of their final day. And Disney now has a customer who is going to visit again which means more revenue on merchandise and food. I don’t see this as a loss for Disney at all. If anything, they’re leaving money on the table by not allowing people to upgrade.

 

[longtimedisneylurker]

I guess I just don’t understand how allowing people to upgrade to the lower-tier Keys from tickets is such a big loss for Disney. People who purchase tickets to use during the summer have 5 days of use max before they are forced to upgrade or lose the value. So it’s not like these people are packing the parks every day of the summer. They can’t use their Keys to visit the following summer unless they purchase day tickets again or upgrade to a Key they can use during the summer. That customer also didn’t get any Key discounts on food or drinks during the summer if they didn’t upgrade until the end of their final day. And Disney now has a customer who is going to visit again which means more revenue on merchandise and food. I don’t see this as a loss for Disney at all. If anything, they’re leaving money on the table by not allowing people to upgrade.

See, I think what Disney hopes/believes is going to happen is that locals will visit the parks with tickets for one or more days during the busy summer months because, hey, it's summer and we live here and we want to go to Disneyland. Then if Disney decides to start selling magic keys again, sometime after summer block outs lift but before they start for next summer, these people who bought summertime tickets are going to get the urge to visit Disney again and they are going to look at ticket options and notice they could get an imagine or enchant key for bargain rates per visit compared to what they paid for their summer tickets so they will then buy or upgrade to that option. And ta-da Disney got the initial ticket purchase plus the full annual pass payment from the same customer. And that customer still can't visit the next summer without buying a separate ticket to do so. And now that they've done that once, to a subset of those customers it gets easier and seems less illogical to buy a summer ticket again even if holding that annual pass because hey I got my value out of it during the rest of the year already, so then there exists the possibility that Disney gets yet another ticket purchase out of the same customer. It's all about maximizing revenue even on a per customer basis. They get more money from the customer who buys and uses a ticket and then later buys a magic key at full price for a return visit than the customer who buys a ticket and pays a negligible upgrade fee to get the magic key for a return visit. And if it turns out those customers never buy the magic key but return to the parks anyway just using tickets, then they are making more on entrance media for each of those people than if they had turned them into magic key holders, so still a win.

 

[kristensideaoffun]

See, I think what Disney hopes/believes is going to happen is that locals will visit the parks with tickets for one or more days during the busy summer months because, hey, it's summer and we live here and we want to go to Disneyland. Then if Disney decides to start selling magic keys again, sometime after summer block outs lift but before they start for next summer, these people who bought summertime tickets are going to get the urge to visit Disney again and they are going to look at ticket options and notice they could get an imagine or enchant key for bargain rates per visit compared to what they paid for their summer tickets so they will then buy or upgrade to that option. And ta-da Disney got the initial ticket purchase plus the full annual pass payment from the same customer. And that customer still can't visit the next summer without buying a separate ticket to do so. And now that they've done that once, to a subset of those customers it gets easier and seems less illogical to buy a summer ticket again even if holding that annual pass because hey I got my value out of it during the rest of the year already, so then there exists the possibility that Disney gets yet another ticket purchase out of the same customer. It's all about maximizing revenue even on a per customer basis. They get more money from the customer who buys and uses a ticket and then later buys a magic key at full price for a return visit than the customer who buys a ticket and pays a negligible upgrade fee to get the magic key for a return visit. And if it turns out those customers never buy the magic key but return to the parks anyway just using tickets, then they are making more on entrance media for each of those people than if they had turned them into magic key holders, so still a win.

But this is assuming people aren’t doing a cost analysis of purchasing tickets vs Keys. And if they aren’t doing it the first time, they definitely will the second time it comes to purchase tickets during the summer. The cost of buying two 3-day tickets (not even 5 days) plus an Enchant Key is $100 less than an Inspire Key. I doubt a whole lot of people who are willing to spend that kind of money on ticket media would be willing to do so without having the benefits of the Inspire Key. At least they won’t do it twice.

And most people who purchase the lower tier keys either A) Don’t want to visit during the summer or B) Would visit during the summer but can’t afford to pay for single day tickets AND a Key or single day tickets throughout the year. Not allowing people to upgrade from tickets is more likely to leave money on the table for Disney than it is for them to lose money.

 

[Aurora0427]

But this is assuming people aren’t doing a cost analysis of purchasing tickets vs Keys. And if they aren’t doing it the first time, they definitely will the second time it comes to purchase tickets during the summer. The cost of buying two 3-day tickets (not even 5 days) plus an Enchant Key is $100 less than an Inspire Key. I doubt a whole lot of people who are willing to spend that kind of money on ticket media would be willing to do so without having the benefits of the Inspire Key. At least they won’t do it twice.

This was us…. We were stuck with the Enchant Key because by the time we knew we were relocating to SC, they’d stopped selling Believe and Dream. So we ended up having to to also buy a 3 day ticket this summer, because everyone came to visit and we were blocked out this summer. We can’t renew until January, but I’m really hoping by then we can upgrade.

I really don’t know what we’ll do if we can’t, because we already have family who have big plans to do Disneyland next summer for multiple days, and I really can’t stomach buying another Enchant pass and multi day tickets next summer.

 

[starry_solo]

WDW closed the loophole of allowing people to upgrade tickets to an AP that would be blocked out on the days the tickets were originally used for. I think that was a year or two ago.

so, I’m not too surprised with what DLR did during the summer.

 

[brightlined]

I guess I just don’t understand how allowing people to upgrade to the lower-tier Keys from tickets is such a big loss for Disney. People who purchase tickets to use during the summer have 5 days of use max before they are forced to upgrade or lose the value. So it’s not like these people are packing the parks every day of the summer. They can’t use their Keys to visit the following summer unless they purchase day tickets again or upgrade to a Key they can use during the summer. That customer also didn’t get any Key discounts on food or drinks during the summer if they didn’t upgrade until the end of their final day. And Disney now has a customer who is going to visit again which means more revenue on merchandise and food. I don’t see this as a loss for Disney at all. If anything, they’re leaving money on the table by not allowing people to upgrade.

But that's an argument for Disney to just let people in the park for free because they might spend money on something else.

Like I said above - the point of the upgrade is to help the person who bought a ticket pretend that they bought a pass instead. (The person who upgrades also loses the discounts for the days they've already spent.) If the pass was blocked out, then they're getting in for free.

People buy those low-tier passes in order to go during the low(er) periods, not during the summer.

I could certainly understand if Disney wanted to incentivize sales of those lower-tier passes by, for example, offering a minor discount during the time that those lower-tier passes are blocked out. Maybe $20/day of the length of the original ticket.


Think of it another way - pretend that a theater has a season package, but it doesn't include the marquee show (ie, Hamilton). If they let the marquee ticket holders use the entirety of their ticket cost (which would already be higher than the normal show) to pay for the season package, then they're just eating that marquee show's revenue. The whole reason that show wouldn't be included in the package is because it's the marquee show - the one that that's likely going to sell out on its own. If anything - if their experience at that marquee show is good, it helps sell the rest of the season package. Offer a discount, sure, but no business at any level is going to give that away for free.

But this is assuming people aren’t doing a cost analysis of purchasing tickets vs Keys. The cost of buying two 3-day tickets (not even 5 days) plus an Enchant Key is $100 less than an Inspire Key. I doubt a whole lot of people who are willing to spend that kind of money on ticket media would be willing to do so without having the benefits of the Inspire Key.

And most people who purchase the lower tier keys either A) Don’t want to visit during the summer or B) Would visit during the summer but can’t afford to pay for single day tickets AND a Key or single day tickets throughout the year. Not allowing people to upgrade from tickets is more likely to leave money on the table for Disney than it is for them to lose money.

If people don't want to go during the summer, they're not going to buy a ticket to go during the summer. If space is limited, any business down to a mom and pop restaurant would rather have someone who can afford it over someone who can't - they don't need to let that person eat for free.

Anyone considering what you're describing would be better off just waiting until late September or October, buy an Enchant Key, and get more visits the following September at the end of the pass (if Believe and Inspire aren't available). People do that stuff all the time.

And I'm not saying "no upgrades at all". That summer ticket should be able to upgrade to Believe or Inspire (if they're available), just not to the lower-tier Keys.

And, honestly, on the lesser side of things - it's really not fair to those of us who paid full price for an Enchant Key during the normal season to let someone have free summer days that we didn't get to have. I knew what I was buying when I bought it - they should know that as well. An Enchant Key (or an Imagine Key) shouldn't cover summer days at that price.

 

[kristensideaoffun]

But that's an argument for Disney to just let people in the park for free because they might spend money on something else.

Like I said above - the point of the upgrade is to help the person who bought a ticket pretend that they bought a pass instead. (The person who upgrades also loses the discounts for the days they've already spent.) If the pass was blocked out, then they're getting in for free.

People buy those low-tier passes in order to go during the low(er) periods, not during the summer.

I could certainly understand if Disney wanted to incentivize sales of those lower-tier passes by, for example, offering a minor discount during the time that those lower-tier passes are blocked out. Maybe $20/day of the length of the original ticket.


Think of it another way - pretend that a theater has a season package, but it doesn't include the marquee show (ie, Hamilton). If they let the marquee ticket holders use the entirety of their ticket cost (which would already be higher than the normal show) to pay for the season package, then they're just eating that marquee show's revenue. The whole reason that show wouldn't be included in the package is because it's the marquee show - the one that that's likely going to sell out on its own. If anything - if their experience at that marquee show is good, it helps sell the rest of the season package. Offer a discount, sure, but no business at any level is going to give that away for free.



If people don't want to go during the summer, they're not going to buy a ticket to go during the summer. If space is limited, any business down to a mom and pop restaurant would rather have someone who can afford it over someone who can't - they don't need to let that person eat for free.

Anyone considering what you're describing would be better off just waiting until late September or October, buy an Enchant Key, and get more visits the following September at the end of the pass (if Believe and Inspire aren't available). People do that stuff all the time.

And I'm not saying "no upgrades at all". That summer ticket should be able to upgrade to Believe or Inspire (if they're available), just not to the lower-tier Keys.

And, honestly, on the lesser side of things - it's really not fair to those of us who paid full price for an Enchant Key during the normal season to let someone have free summer days that we didn't get to have. I knew what I was buying when I bought it - they should know that as well. An Enchant Key (or an Imagine Key) shouldn't cover summer days at that price.

But it’s not free… You have to pay to upgrade your pass. The “space is limited” and “they can’t let people eat for free” argument in comparison to a restaurant doesn’t compare to the parks. People entering the parks during the summer are using ticket media they paid for and they are not receiving free food and merchandise in the parks. There has also been plenty of room for both ticket and Keyholders. While they have been crowded, the parks have not been at capacity at all the entire summer. No ticket holders are being turned away because too many Keyholders are in the park. Disney is not losing money by having Keyholders, or people with tickets who could potentially upgrade to a Key, in the parks. Like I said, there are two types of Enchant and Inspire Keyholders - those that don’t care to go during the summer and those that would go during the summer but can’t afford tickets or a higher level pass. Allowing people to upgrade tickets to Keys means Disney will be able to extract more money from these people (many of which may have never even considered a return trip for at least a year) through a more expensive ticket media and more visits to the park.

Disney doesn’t care about things being fair for all Enchant or Imagine Keyholders, they care about extracting the maximum amount of money from their customers. If they can convert people from tickeholders to Keyholders, that’s more income for them with very little effort on their part.

 

[brightlined]

But it’s not free… You have to pay to upgrade your pass.

When you pay for an upgrade, all you're doing is paying the difference between what you paid for the tickets and the total cost of the pass.

Say you bought a 5-Day Parkhopper for $400 and used it in June. Your upgrade to an Enchant Key would be the $299 difference. You would still be paying $699 for an Enchant Key. The five days you used in June would be free because the Enchant Key doesn't include June days - you would still have 100% of the days on that Enchant Key available for your use.

The difference between my buying an Enchant Key for $699 in October and someone upgrading to an Enchant Key in June (total: $699) would therefore be the five June days I didn't get. Those five days would be free to the June upgrader.

And, again, Disney would be well within their rights to have a discount into the blocked-out tiers. But the reasons you're giving don't justify allowing people to deduct the entire cost of their tickets for a blocked-out pass.

 

[kristensideaoffun]

When you pay for an upgrade, all you're doing is paying the difference between what you paid for the tickets and the total cost of the pass.

Say you bought a 5-Day Parkhopper for $400 and used it in June. Your upgrade to an Enchant Key would be the $299 difference. You would still be paying $699 for an Enchant Key. The five days you used in June would be free because the Enchant Key doesn't include June days - you would still have 100% of the days on that Enchant Key available for your use.

The difference between my buying an Enchant Key for $699 in October and someone upgrading to an Enchant Key in June (total: $699) would therefore be the five June days I didn't get. Those five days would be free to the June upgrader.

And, again, Disney would be well within their rights to have a discount into the blocked-out tiers. But the reasons you're giving don't justify allowing people to deduct the entire cost of their tickets for a blocked-out pass.

I’m still not seeing how Disney is losing money off of people converting from tickets to Key passes during the summer time. My point is that the upgrade option captures people who would not normally return to the parks again for an entire year if the option to upgrade is not there. Disney gets extra money out of these people when they upgrade their tickets and when they return and spend more money in the parks. If Disney looked at it from your perspective and thought they were somehow not generating any income or even losing money from it, they would have closed this “loophole” a long time ago, because Disney gives NOTHING away for free. They have decades of data from people upgrading from tickets to passes. The fact is that Disney is getting MORE money from people who visit during the summer and then convert to Keyholders. Even if they upgrade to a lower tier pass, they are still in the parks for 5 more days than they would have if they just purchased a lower tier pass outright. Those 5 days = more money spent on merchandise and food. Disney fully understands that having that little “upgrade” button in the app is another way to generate more money for the company. And the moment it begins to cost them money instead of make them money is the moment they will get rid of the option.