Lightning Pass and more Virtual Queues-How does it all affect you as a DVC Member?

[Lorana]

In theory I am okay with premium offerings for those with money to blow provided it doesn't noticeably impact the regular customer.

I agree with you, except that it has taken away from regular customers. I was fine with fireworks/parades dessert parties, before they all started taking the prime viewing areas. And extra hours at night used to be free; and now they cost a premium. That’s the one that hurts us the most. My husband and sons are NOT morning people. Getting them out of the hotel room before 10am is nothing short of a miracle. The extra hour in the morning meant nothing to us, but the extra evening hours were priceless, because 6pm-midnight was when they’d rather be in the parks. Now you need park admission AND pay extra for those hours, even as a resort guest.

 

[Chuck S]

I was fine with fireworks/parades dessert parties, before they all started taking the prime viewing areas.

Many of the fireworks dessert parties have viewing areas that were built especially for them, or other private functions, The viewing area in the MK did not exist prior to the parties, they were originally a fenced off flowerbed near near Casey's or a relatively unused (and since removed) outdoor dining area near Tomorrowland Terrace. The viewing areas at Epcot were used for private parties. I'm wondering if/when they will reach their pricing threshold that starts turning people off? The last time I did a MK Fireworks party was about 2 years ago, and participation seemed to be dropping then, before COVID and other concerns.

 

[Lumee23]

The fireworks/dessert parties were something that I would have considered a premium offering with little noticeable impact to the regular customer. In 2017 we did a splash out trip where we did a number of extra offerings including the Tomorrowland Terrace dessert party. It was okay but for us not worth the money. For me the real perk was having breathing room as we weren't crammed in. The view was decent for not having to stake a spot ahead of time but it was not the best view available. People who got into position earlier outside of the party had a superior vantage point. That was quite some time ago though so things could have changed.

I 1000% agree on the late nights though. I love the parks in the evening and really miss the late late nights. I would much rather have extra evening hours over morning hours and I don't like the new 30 min early entrance change they are eventually putting in. It doesn't feel substantial enough for the premium you pay to stay at a Disney hotel. We have done a couple of the holiday parties (not the after hours events) and while the first one we did was reasonable with prices and crowds the subsequent parties we did were way too expensive and crowded despite being on a weekday. We are a family of five so these added events/parties are eye poppingly expensive for us at this point.

But it WILL impact the regular customer. They have to take things away from you in order to sell them to the premium customer. You got some free FastPasses before - now you'll get none. You'll likely get a very small break on the pricing as a (blue card) DVC member - like the $10 discount you can get on Boo Hoo Bash tickets.

I feel everyone's frustration with the minuscule $10 discount on the Halloween event. It is so small and limited that it is practically insulting. A similar discount on a Lightening Pass would also be terrible of course but not unexpected at this point.... I don't think them taking away free FP+ is a foregone conclusion though if they go with the Lightening Pass upcharge. Universal maintains two tiers of their skip the line pass so I don't see why Disney couldn't have a tier system; however, I agree removing free FP+ is the most likely outcome of a Lightening Pass system if I am being realistic. I also concede that unless it is significantly limited in numbers it would most likely have a large impact on standby lines for the average guest. I haven't been to Universal in ages and I am curious how that plays out there.

 

[CraigInPA]

Disney has about 10,400 Deluxe Resort & separately bookable DVC rooms, with 4 theme parks.

You would think that, if they wanted to, Disney could offer some form of Lightning Pass to its Deluxe/DVC Resort Guests.

But then why convert 200 rooms at the Grand Floridian to DVC? You'd think they could fill those rooms with some form of Lightning Pass built into the price of the room.

Conversion of a building at VGF gives Disney two benefits:
1. The income from selling 2 million points, spread over a few years
2. Maintenance of that building, and a higher percentage of costs to run the entire resort, is now on DVC.

I suspect #2 is more important to the hotels division than any consideration of the percentage of deluxe resort rooms to DVC resort rooms by the theme park division.

 

[Axelskater]

Universal Express Pass offers 2 versions: Unlimited, and the plain old "Express pass". Unless you plan on riding the ride repeatedly in one day, the regular Express pass is a good option. The deluxe resorts get the unlimited one. If Disney plans on something, they could plan on a paid "unlimited" version available to all, and perhaps offer deluxe/DVC guests the "regular, one time per ride only" version either "free" (lol) or for a discounted price. They could....and Virtual Queue lines on high value rides could be for guests who opt for neither....They could offer discounts to Value/Moderate guests to purchase the Lightning pass but that does away with the idea of "value", unless someone calculates a cheaper room is worth it to have the funds for Lightning Pass. With Chapek in charge at least some of this is likely coming.

As 2 adults with no kids, Disney took away most of the things we liked anyway. I either travel with my husband, or with my mom, and they took away much of the signature dining, the luau, GFSO (we would sit and sip drinks and they even used to play a tango for us, and we would dance **sighs wistfully**), park shows/streetmosphere, nightcaps at TOTW, dessert parties...some of it he took away/cut back before the closure) and he appears to be in no hurry to add it back. So fine, where I once used all 890 of my points every single year and then some, I now mostly rent them out and we visit other places in FL. It has been great fun. And I was actually one of the people who used the amenities, especially as my mom gets older....I bought at least one Dessert party for her and I every trip, MVMCP, some of the early morning magic events and we used the Minnie Vans every trip. All of that is gone for now, so I have been too....but I have been enjoying so much of "Old Florida" the past year I guess I will continue to wait it out. I would probably purchase the lightning pass when I go with my mom so she does not have to stand in lines, though honestly, an early morning magic is just as appealing to us. She and I did it in HS, rode Slinky, Midway Mania, a few other things, had a huge breakfast they included, then went back and took a nap and spent the late afternoon/evening at another park. The extras are worth it to me with a parent getting older, and my husband and I just miss the music and shows a lot. But until these extras come back, why bother just paying a fortune for rides? Not worth it for me.

I booked Portofino Bay in November - since they seem to be ahead of the curve lately. Universal is really offering great deals during Disney's 50th I am not sure what Chapek is doing but it seems to me they are way behind the 8 ball right now. The crumbs Disney is handing out is not worth it for now...

 

[Chuck S]

You talk as though the Luau (which made Disney a ton of money), the streetmosphere characters, and other things on your list are gone for good. When they fully open and the crowds return, most everything will be restored. They are still operating under some restrictions and limited attendance.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

You talk as though the Luau (which made Disney a ton of money), the streetmosphere characters, and other things on your list are gone for good. When they fully open and the crowds return, most everything will be restored. They are still operating under some restrictions and limited attendance.

I love an optimist. LOL

In all seriousness, if Disney's ultimate goal is to decrease attendance lowering crowd levels, we have to believe that the "free crowd eater" type areas and attractions will become less necessary. This serves an obvious dual purpose. It decreases (substantially due to wages and maintenance and upkeep) expenditures and that, at the same time; increases margins. A win-win for Disney.

I think some of the "free" crowd gathering areas will certainly return, but not to the extent it used to be. Not if they're headed in the direction it appears (to me) they're headed in. Certainly the pay-to-play shows will return as soon as there are enough people to make it appropriate. I'll also throw this out there just to see if anybody salutes. I think the day will come when shows like FOTLK (the full old version) might very well be pay for view in addition to park admission. We already heard whispers of that when they were talking about the new theater in MK. There. I said it.

 

[DavidRoss]

Reading through some of these posts, I have to agree. I have been a DVC member since 1999. I know no perks are guaranteed with my membership and things are subject to change. But honestly, the prices for everything in general are just ridiculous at WDW. I don't buy souvenirs any more because of the prices. I still go and enjoy the experience and feeling of being at WDW. But I find that I can rent a car and eat off property at some really nice places and everything together cost me less than it would to eat at Disney.

The cost of Disney has become a joke with me and my family. After we have left Disney and we go to a place like a nice seafood restaurant or steakhouse and end up only paying $60-$80 for what we consider a nice meal, it really hits us again just how expensive Disney is. Even things like the cost of joining DVC I consider to be ridiculous. When I bought in, I paid $60 to $65 a point. I never figured I would see the cost to buy in increase up to 400%.

Remember the Magic Kingdom Club anyone? It was the old version of Tables in Wonderland. It cost $25 a year to join. Remember 15 years ago with the standard Disney Dining Plan was $39.99 per person per day? All meals included an appetizer and desert and also your tip.

I expect inflation. But not to the extent I have seen with Disney. Clearly Disney no longer cares about all types of customers. They are clearly catering to upper class families today.

 

[Chuck S]

I don't know...granted FOTLK costs Disney some $ in wages, but major attractions probably run about the same amount, look at the number of cast members Flight of Passage takes to operate, and Everest...compare overall costs, while FOTLK is labor intensive, Flight of Passage and Everest cost a fortune to build, compared to a theater which is a pretty basic building. And then Kilimanjaro Safaris, all the animals require cast members and there is just the basic operating costs of the jeeps and the drivers. So no, I don't think stage shows will be pay to play unless they are a dinner show. Disney is reactivating the college program this month, bringing in more cast members, and when they are able to restart the international guest workers program, that will bring in more. It will take a while to train these new employees, but they should help park operations when they are in place. It will still take time before we see the Disney World we were used to, but maybe sometime next year, assuming there is no resurgence of COVID, or other disaster, it will get there.

 

[Chuck S]

Remember the Magic Kingdom Club anyone? It was the old version of Tables in Wonderland. It cost $25 a year to join. Remember 15 years ago with the standard Disney Dining Plan was $39.99 per person per day? All meals included an appetizer and desert and also your tip.

The Magic Kingdom Club originated in 1957 as something California businesses with 200 or more employees (before there was a WDW) used as a perk for their employees, Sea World, Knott's, Magic Mountain all had similar programs. It was a marketing tool. It was basically an admission discount and hotel discount program. For instance, at Disneyland, rather than have the standard ticket books, the MKC garnered you a discounted ticket book where ALL the tickets could be used for E ticket rides. Later, when all day passports were introduced, they were exclusive to the MKC. In the 1980s, an all day passport to Disneyland was $11 plus tax. After many years, they added the Gold Level that an individual could pay for, as well as a "lifetime" version for people 65 and older called Magic (Y)ears club for $35. All versions of the MKC were discontinued several years ago (late 1990s?). Think of the original MKC like the corporate discount programs we see today for airlines and car rentals. In fact, the MKC did have a discount code for National Car Rental.

It was not a version of Tables in Wonderland, though in the later years it did give a few dining discounts.

 

[Axelskater]

You talk as though the Luau (which made Disney a ton of money), the streetmosphere characters, and other things on your list are gone for good. When they fully open and the crowds return, most everything will be restored. They are still operating under some restrictions and limited attendance.

There is no reason most of those things could not have returned already. Other parks from FL to TN have brought back much of their regular programming. Disney stands alone with their lack of normalcy. I don't see Chapek bringing back most free entertainment ("The cast members are the entertainment"). I used to rush to the MK in the mornings just to see the Trolley Show, then ride a few rides and off to Epcot for lunch. Chapek is courting people who ride rides & buy Disney merch...and that is about it. Maybe the luau will come back with obligatory IP. I never begrudged spending extra if I RECEIVED extra. But, respectfully, the days of enjoying many things I mentioned are long gone as long as Chapek is there. I hope of course I am wrong. In the meantime - renting out 890 points goes a long way to some nice trips elsewhere. FL has no restrictions by the way, as I am sure you know. That is all self-imposed.

 

[Doberge]

I think DVC members should temper expectations because the existence of a DVC room on a property with "deluxe hotel" rooms doesn't mean that the two are the same class and thus would receive the same hypothetical benefits, as DVC *only* gives an opportunity to stay at these deluxe resorts. DVC and hotel guests are essentially in different classes, not unlike club level being a different class. Like club level has opportunities regular hotel guests do not, I can see Disney prioritizing deluxe hotel over DVC, unless of course DVC wants to pay to even the course. I think the most likely outcome is that blue card holders will have an opportunity to buy in at a discounted rate, like offered for everything else.

 

[Chuck S]

People complain no matter who the CEO is. They didn't like Eisner, they didn't like Iger, and now they don't like Chapek.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Reading through some of these posts, I have to agree. I have been a DVC member since 1999. I know no perks are guaranteed with my membership and things are subject to change. But honestly, the prices for everything in general are just ridiculous at WDW. I don't buy souvenirs any more because of the prices. I still go and enjoy the experience and feeling of being at WDW. But I find that I can rent a car and eat off property at some really nice places and everything together cost me less than it would to eat at Disney.

The cost of Disney has become a joke with me and my family. After we have left Disney and we go to a place like a nice seafood restaurant or steakhouse and end up only paying $60-$80 for what we consider a nice meal, it really hits us again just how expensive Disney is. Even things like the cost of joining DVC I consider to be ridiculous. When I bought in, I paid $60 to $65 a point. I never figured I would see the cost to buy in increase up to 400%.

Remember the Magic Kingdom Club anyone? It was the old version of Tables in Wonderland. It cost $25 a year to join. Remember 15 years ago with the standard Disney Dining Plan was $39.99 per person per day? All meals included an appetizer and desert and also your tip.

I expect inflation. But not to the extent I have seen with Disney. Clearly Disney no longer cares about all types of customers. They are clearly catering to upper class families today.

The Magic Kingdom Club originated in 1957 as something California businesses with 200 or more employees (before there was a WDW) used as a perk for their employees, Sea World, Knott's, Magic Mountain all had similar programs. It was a marketing tool. It was basically an admission discount and hotel discount program. For instance, at Disneyland, rather than have the standard ticket books, the MKC garnered you a discounted ticket book where ALL the tickets could be used for E ticket rides. Later, when all day passports were introduced, they were exclusive to the MKC. In the 1980s, an all day passport to Disneyland was $11 plus tax. After many years, they added the Gold Level that an individual could pay for, as well as a "lifetime" version for people 65 and older called Magic (Y)ears club for $35. All versions of the MKC were discontinued several years ago (late 1990s?). Think of the original MKC like the corporate discount programs we see today for airlines and car rentals. In fact, the MKC did have a discount code for National Car Rental.

It was not a version of Tables in Wonderland, though in the later years it did give a few dining discounts.

The Magic Kingdom Club was *supposedly* replaced with the Disney Visa card. I always thought that was a stretch, but their reasoning was there would be discounts with the card.

The predecessor of the TIW card, was Disney Dining Experience (DDE). The same product, different name.
At one point in history the DDE card was only available to Florida residents.

 

[Judique]

Many of the fireworks dessert parties have viewing areas that were built especially for them, or other private functions, The viewing area in the MK did not exist prior to the parties, they were originally a fenced off flowerbed near near Casey's or a relatively unused (and since removed) outdoor dining area near Tomorrowland Terrace. The viewing areas at Epcot were used for private parties. I'm wondering if/when they will reach their pricing threshold that starts turning people off? The last time I did a MK Fireworks party was about 2 years ago, and participation seemed to be dropping then, before COVID and other concerns.

I've attended one party, way back when. so long ago, I don't remember if it was xmas or halloween. I've done one MK fireworks cruise. The fun part of these were not the event, but the groups that I attended with.

Can't see myself spending any event money in the future. No value there. I can't eat desserts in that volume and I've seen enough fireworks to last a lifetime. Meager food offerings - not interested.

Won't buy fastpass. Did the Universal thing and it worked well. But stayed at their hotel so included and we wanted to see Harry Potter when it first opened.

Enjoy my DVC, but this year the majority of my points will be spent at Hilton Head. Have a Food and wine reservation and have an annual pass plus non expiry tickets. Not sure if I want to go.

 

[sethschroeder]

People complain no matter who the CEO is. They didn't like Eisner, they didn't like Iger, and now they don't like Chapek.

That could mean that they simply keep hiring "worse" individuals to run the company. I don't know enough to know that but just throwing it out there. I know Pete absolutely does not like Chapek.

 

[Chuck S]

While I don't think Chapek is as good as Iger or Eisner. But to be fair, he is still pretty new, and he got COVID dumped in his lap almost immediately after being promoted to CEO.

 

[keishashadow]

Rumored to be WDW version of the unlimited line skip pass. Rumored for a good fee $100-300 per day per person. Just rumors for now. Universal and Six Flags has a version of this.

If they sell a very limited number of them shouldn’t be a deal breaker I’d expect a max pass sort of offering

They could offer it to deluxe hotel guests vs deluxe villa guests.... cash reservations vs points reservations (FOTL passes)

My thot too if free one offered. Free equating to jacking rack ratesfor designated deluxe properties or as a specific booking category ala club

When they fully open and the crowds return, most everything will be restored.

From your lips! Problem is once the cost savings from cutting so many things during pandemic is evaluated, you have to wonder if the bean counters will be quick to revert to past practice

 

[Axelskater]

People complain no matter who the CEO is. They didn't like Eisner, they didn't like Iger, and now they don't like Chapek.

Having been born and raised in FL, I was pretty familiar with Eisner and Iger, and thought both were pretty decent CEO's. Iger was not afraid to monetize things and I happily paid extra for the hard ticket events, "extras" and "park within a park" type offerings which were created under his leadership, as long as they were of value. He at least seemed to recognize not every person vacations in Disney to go on IP rides.

 

[zackiedawg]

While I don't think Chapek is as good as Iger or Eisner. But to be fair, he is still pretty new, and he got COVID dumped in his lap almost immediately after being promoted to CEO.

I think though more of any 'blame' or 'credit', depending on how you think things have been changing at the parks, still falls in Chapek's lap because, though new as CEO since 2020, he was the Parks and Resorts Chairman for the past 5 years, and would likely be responsible for most of the changes and charges happening within the parks and resorts. I can't really judge D'Amaro's performance in the Parks and Resorts chair as well, as that has only been a year or so, and as you mentioned, all during the pandemic. For me, none of the changes in the last 5-6 years on their own have been drastic enough for me to really be bothered by - just little things here or there I may not like, but not enough to really bother me. The problem comes when there are dozens of those little changes and they all add up...so overall, I'd say I'm less pleased with his performance and the changes he's implemented in the last 5-6 years than I was when Iger or Eisner were in charge and their Parks and Resorts Chairpersons. I'd give plusses for the park expansions and new lands, though I suspect at least some of that was already in the planning stages before Chapek - still, he oversaw Star Wars, Toy Story lands at WDW, Shanghai Disney, etc. Minuses to the removal of some original theming and a little too much overlaying of movies into existing rides, and all the extra-charge stuff that used to be free that really seems to have run rampant during his tenure.