It was unrealistic not to expect DVC to do something about resales

[Ben E N]

I am guessing this is the first of many changes and eventually, in the not too distant future, all resales will be tied to that one home resort meaning
where you purchase your resale is the resort you will be able to stay, no trading out. In the long run, it will just be those pre 2019 (or I guess later when/if that change is made) that can trade at 7 months and eventually in 35+ years it will all disappear...maybe?

I think they would have already done that if they could have, but it is built into the contract of the original 14 that they cannot restrict it that way.

 

[bobbiwoz]

As long as I can book wherever I own, and the new resorts seem like a bonus to me, I am much more alarmed at the seemingly unlimited ability of DVC to raise the number of points in a resort.

I feel lucky to have home resort privileges at the resorts I own at, and when we sell, so far, that is what I will be selling. I hope our buyers feel the same. DVC better not neglect these original properties!

 

[disneyfan2kids]

Do you feel the same way about your personal home? You can sell it, but the “resale buyers” can’t use the neighborhood pool and tennis courts, and they can’t attend the public school.

I'm not entirely convinced this new rule aggravates me to be honest. In the above scenario - If all of my neighbors were selling their properties far below the property value just to "get out" it would, in turn, devalue my property. I tend to think this rule is a way to ensure that my property (DVC in this case) is valued properly and stays that way. I've seen so many resales for bottom basement prices and that trend would certainly have continued indefinitely if something wasn't done about it. Now, admittedly I'm in the camp of having no intention of selling my points - so it doesn't affect me negatively in a direct manner. BUT, overall - I don't see this "curveball" they threw in the resale market as an entirely bad thing. Just my 2 cents....and I'm still trying to really take in all the changes so it's possible I may start to see the bad, but at this point I don't. PS. I do, in fact, hate the 2020 point reallocation though.

 

[drusba]

I am guessing this is the first of many changes and eventually, in the not too distant future, all resales will be tied to that one home resort meaning
where you purchase your resale is the resort you will be able to stay, no trading out. In the long run, it will just be those pre 2019 (or I guess later when/if that change is made) that can trade at 7 months and eventually in 35+ years it will all disappear...maybe?

The obvious change coming in the long run is that all existing resorts will expire and then be restarted and sold anew under the new resale restriction that will be applicable to Riviera. So beginning with the expiration of BWV, BRV, and BCV in January 2042 and ending with the expiration of CCV in January 2068, the existing resorts will be converted to the new system limiting any resale purchaser to reserving only home resort. For Disney, which believes WDW will still be around well into the 22d century, that is just a matter of time.

As to prohibiting resale purchasers of the existing resorts any further from reserving at the existing resorts, I have doubts another change is coming since the POS's of all those resorts provide that both purchasers from DVD and resale purchasers must be allowed, on the same basis, to reserve at both their home resort and any other existing DVC Resorts in the DVC system.

I do perceive more onerous availability problems at 7 months out developing in the next 15 years at the existing resorts. There will, by that time, be a large number of owners at those resorts who purchased resale after Jan 2019 and thus can only reserve at the original 14 DVC Resorts. And likely by that time there will be 4 to 6 new resorts (beginning with Riviera) where all the purchasers (total number potentially in the six figures) from DVD can also reserve any of the 14 original resorts. That combination will create significantly more demand at 7 months out than currently exists for the existing resorts.

 

[jade1]

I keep going and still own my points despite the rising costs.

Same. It's just so cheap once you have DVC (esp paid for long ago) it's very hard not to.

Heck I think we would go (esp in the winter) even without the parks.

We own at the 3 resorts we really love, VGF, BLT, and BWV. We don't see any need to sell any of them or add any more on.

Cha Ching. So awesome.

 

[jade1]

Contractually I don't think they could limit directly to one's home resort for DVC the club though there may be ways they could do so indirectly. Certainly the 7 month window has gotten more difficult over the years for several reasons though the largest single factor has been SSR IMO.

I guess I was thinking back to an old thread.

Actually they can restrict you totally by excluding any given resort from DVC if they wanted.

The language related in the POS is that DVC must be the manager for the resort to be a member. There is no wording in the POS nor in the management contract that requires DVC to continue to manage any given resort. So my interpretation is that DVC could divest themselves of any resort if they wanted by simply passing on the management of a given resort to another company. Obviously there is a list of for cause reasons for a resort to be excluded as well. I think it's extremely unlikely this will happen but I suspect it would surprise a lot of people more than myself if it were to, esp. for VB and HH. Marriott has divested itself of 9 different resorts over the period I've been in timesharing if I recall correctly and many people said how those would never happen either.

 

[Bing Showei]

I'm not entirely convinced this new rule aggravates me to be honest. In the above scenario - If all of my neighbors were selling their properties far below the property value just to "get out" it would, in turn, devalue my property. I tend to think this rule is a way to ensure that my property (DVC in this case) is valued properly and stays that way. I've seen so many resales for bottom basement prices and that trend would certainly have continued indefinitely if something wasn't done about it.

The resale restriction is done only for the benefit of Disney. Full stop.

Few people buy in planning to sell, but life happens. And when it does, why would you be happy that Disney is making it harder for you to sell your ownership interest?

Owners should either not care about the change (if they never plan to sell), or be concerned about the devaluation of their holding, as this change affects all DVC members whether they bought resale or direct. There is no logical reason any owner should be happy about additional restrictions imposed by Disney on what they can or can not do with their ownership interest.

 

[disneyfan2kids]

The resale restriction is done only for the benefit of Disney. Full stop.

Few people buy in planning to sell, but life happens. And when it does, why would you be happy that Disney is making it harder for you to sell your ownership interest?

Owners should either not care about the change (if they never plan to sell), or be concerned about the devaluation of their holding, as this change affects all DVC members whether they bought resale or direct. There is no logical reason any owner should be happy about additional restrictions imposed by Disney on what they can or can not do with their ownership interest.

I disagree - this restriction may limit the number of people I'm competing with (in the future) for the resorts that I want to go to. I'm no longer competing with "future" resales buyers that paid $xx at another resort in order to use those points at my chosen resort. So yes, there are some instances where one would be happy about this, correct? Unless I'm understanding it wrong - which is entirely possible. LOL

 

[ziravan]

I disagree - this restriction may limit the number of people I'm competing with (in the future) for the resorts that I want to go to. I'm no longer competing with "future" resales buyers that paid $xx at another resort in order to use those points at my chosen resort. So yes, there are some instances where one would be happy about this, correct? Unless I'm understanding it wrong - which is entirely possible. LOL

I think the opposite will happen. This is going to create an imbalance such that the 7 month window will become impossible for everyone.

Sure, SSR owners won’t be booking your resort at 7 months, but neither will you. You’ll have to plan much earlier than that.

 

[Matty B13]

I think the opposite will happen. This is going to create an imbalance such that the 7 month window will become impossible for everyone.

Sure, SSR owners won’t be booking your resort at 7 months, but neither will you. You’ll have to plan much earlier than that.

Yep, everyone is going to start booking their home resort at the 11 month mark for their vacations, and then try using the "Modify" tool to try getting something at the 7 month mark. So the pickings are going to be slim at 7 months for every owner.

 

[Bing Showei]

I disagree - this restriction may limit the number of people I'm competing with (in the future) for the resorts that I want to go to. I'm no longer competing with "future" resales buyers that paid $xx at another resort in order to use those points at my chosen resort. So yes, there are some instances where one would be happy about this, correct? Unless I'm understanding it wrong - which is entirely possible. LOL

If you are having any trouble getting into a L14 resort, the new resale restriction will do nothing to fix that. The new resale restriction on the Riviera will in fact make it harder, over time, for you to get into any new property. As owners sell their contracts, those who pick it up will only be allowed to stay there. They will be booking those rooms within their home period.

If you're speaking hypothetically that if you were to buy direct at Riviera then you won't have to deal with competition from future resale buyers at the L14, this is true. But your home booking window will become even harder to book into with all the Riviera resale buyers (who will likely have paid a fraction of what you paid) being able to ONLY stay there. In turn, those looking to trade into the Riviera will be blocked out and there can't be an even exchange that would allow you with your shiny Riviera direct points to try to grab a room elsewhere in the L14 holdings.

That wonderful direct contract you own now that allows you to use the future properties? The ability to exchange into the new resorts at 7 months will be nothing but a DVD selling point. In practice, it's more likely the new restrictions will make it harder for you to get into any of those new resorts.

 

[Marionnette]

I disagree - this restriction may limit the number of people I'm competing with (in the future) for the resorts that I want to go to. I'm no longer competing with "future" resales buyers that paid $xx at another resort in order to use those points at my chosen resort. So yes, there are some instances where one would be happy about this, correct? Unless I'm understanding it wrong - which is entirely possible. LOL

I don't think you're seeing the bigger picture.

Looking down the road 5 years, there will be a growing number of resale owners at the Legacy 14 resorts, Riviera owners will begin looking at other resorts as the "new" wears off of their home resort. What this leaves is a growing number of Legacy 14 owners who are booking their home resort with their restricted points and then competing for other Legacy 14 resorts at 7 months. It also brings a number of Riviera owners who also want to book at Legacy 14 resorts. You're still going to be competing with owners who paid $xx for their points. The competition just gets keener because Riviera owners have now joined the fray. If you're unhappy that people who paid $xx for their points are booking your chosen resort at 7 months, how happy are you going to be when someone who paid $xx to purchase resale post-Jan. 19, 2019 at that resort booked it at 11 months and now you can't get a reservation there?

 

[CraigInPA]

I do perceive more onerous availability problems at 7 months out developing in the next 15 years at the existing resorts. There will, by that time, be a large number of owners at those resorts who purchased resale after Jan 2019 and thus can only reserve at the original 14 DVC Resorts. And likely by that time there will be 4 to 6 new resorts (beginning with Riviera) where all the purchasers (total number potentially in the six figures) from DVD can also reserve any of the 14 original resorts. That combination will create significantly more demand at 7 months out than currently exists for the existing resorts.

I've been thinking about this, and am convinced that L14 resorts will be protected against the influx of direct-purchase new resort owners (DVC2) at 7 months because there has to be a reciprocity in the point exchange. If the L14 owners aren't booking DVC2, then DVC2 cannot book into L14.

In 10-15 years, the number of resale owners at DVC2 will be not insignificant. Those owners cannot move out of their home DVC2 resort, eliminating them from the pool of potential bookings of L14. Because their points aren't available for exchange out of their resort, the L14 resort owners (and other DVC2 resort owners, as well) will have only limited ability to exchange into the DVC2 resorts. That limited exchange also prevents DVC2 owners who have the swap privilege from going to L14 resorts. The only way to make this exchange system not be "blocking" in 10-15 years would be for DVC to own massive amounts of points in L14 resorts to facilitate these point exchanges. I could see that happening only if Disney has a shortage of hotel rooms, and DVC Villas become the only thing available.

 

[disneyfan2kids]

I think the opposite will happen. This is going to create an imbalance such that the 7 month window will become impossible for everyone.

Sure, SSR owners won’t be booking your resort at 7 months, but neither will you. You’ll have to plan much earlier than that.

SSR owner here We have had luck at 7m out transferring into each resort we've tried - BUT are perfectly content to stay at SSR if that goes away - as we love it there as well. We have more than recouped our money we paid into DVC, didn't buy too many points, so not looking to sell - almost always book at the 11m mark and try to get 3 times every OTHER year (pushing 3 uses into a single AP and then taking an entire year off with no visits/AP). My annual dues are about $950/year for that - so I see it as $1900 (2 years) of dues giving me 3 trips to Disney ($633/trip). I still think it was a great investment regardless of if I'm "forced" to stay at my home resort.

To be clear - I "get" why people who may want to sell might be upset about this - but I just don't intend on selling and IF I do/did - I never expected to get more than what I originally paid - which is what most people have gotten and are upset they will no longer get. That's just my 2 cents - I totally understand that others want to read fine print/examine the rules/go over terms and legalities - I really do "get" that. It's just not my outlook on it.

 

[js]

The obvious change coming in the long run is that all existing resorts will expire and then be restarted and sold anew under the new resale restriction that will be applicable to Riviera. So beginning with the expiration of BWV, BRV, and BCV in January 2042 and ending with the expiration of CCV in January 2068, the existing resorts will be converted to the new system limiting any resale purchaser to reserving only home resort. For Disney, which believes WDW will still be around well into the 22d century, that is just a matter of time.

As to prohibiting resale purchasers of the existing resorts any further from reserving at the existing resorts, I have doubts another change is coming since the POS's of all those resorts provide that both purchasers from DVD and resale purchasers must be allowed, on the same basis, to reserve at both their home resort and any other existing DVC Resorts in the DVC system.

I do perceive more onerous availability problems at 7 months out developing in the next 15 years at the existing resorts. There will, by that time, be a large number of owners at those resorts who purchased resale after Jan 2019 and thus can only reserve at the original 14 DVC Resorts. And likely by that time there will be 4 to 6 new resorts (beginning with Riviera) where all the purchasers (total number potentially in the six figures) from DVD can also reserve any of the 14 original resorts. That combination will create significantly more demand at 7 months out than currently exists for the existing resorts.

Thank you for taking the time to thoroughly respond to my post, it helps me better understand these changes. I appreciate it.

 

[js]

I think they would have already done that if they could have, but it is built into the contract of the original 14 that they cannot restrict it that way.

Thank you. I wasn't aware it is built into our original contracts that we must be able to trade in/out of the existing Fab 14. Maybe once they all expire, the contracts will be worded differently. I'll be 87 and still hope to be able to use my points up until that January, home resort or elsewhere LOL

 

[Bing Showei]

SSR owner here We have had luck at 7m out transferring into each resort we've tried

An owner at SSR, using your points the way you do, celebrating resale buyers being restricted from competing at 7-months to book at another resort is a bit rich. I hate to break it to you, but direct or not, your points are the dirt cheap points that people complain about flooding the system.

 

[disneyfan2kids]

An owner at SSR, using your points the way you do, celebrating resale buyers being restricted from competing at 7-months to book at another resort is a bit rich. I hate to break it to you, but direct or not, you are the dirt cheap points that people complain about flooding the system.

You're a ray of sunshine yourself!

 

[Disneylovingmomof2]

The changes apply to those who purchase resale on or after Jan 19, 2019: (a) buy at one of the existing 14 resorts and you can use the applicable points from that resale contract at any of those 14 resorts but not to reserve any future resort, starting with Riviera; (b) all resale purchasers of any future resort, starting with Riviera, will be limited to reserving their home resort. DVD has already created a chart so salesman can claim how purchasing from DVD rather than resale is better, and buried in the footnotes are the actual new resale restrictions https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/dvc-direct-vs-resale/

All pre-Jan 19, 2019 owners (including resale) are grandfathered in and can use points from any pre-Jan 19, 2019 resale purchase to reserve at both old and future resorts.

I’m still confused as to why this may deter people from buying resale at one of the original 14 resorts if you can still use your points at any of them? If I buy SSR today I can still book a Poly/GF stay correct? I just can’t book at Riviera but honestly is that really a negative thing? The only issue I see is if you buy Riviera and want to sell it down the line you may not be able to because someone who buys it resale can only stay there and nowhere else?

 

[Bing Showei]

You're a ray of sunshine yourself!

Sunshine or not, I didn't say that to be disparaging. I'm just stating a fact that SSR, when brought into the system, introduced a huge demand disparity between home and non-home bookings.

I understand you want to separate yourself from resale buyers because you bought direct, but SSR as a whole has caused more problems for early owners who used to book their home resorts at 5 months than a resale buyer at BCV or VGF ever would. But instead, when people encounter issues, they quickly pull out the renters or resale buyer as the source of their maladies.

I'm no longer competing with "future" resales buyers that paid $xx at another resort in order to use those points at my chosen resort.

And you have to admit to the irony of your concern about future resale buyers, when just about any non-SSR owner could say that exact same thing about any SSR owner who trades out at 7-months regularly, direct or resale. No one is competing to get into SSR, your "chosen resort."