It was unrealistic not to expect DVC to do something about resales

[jodifla]

I know people are mad, and I get why -- but from the company's point of view, continuing to downgrade the value of resale points seems like it was the only way forward for DVC.

People can't expect to spend a portion of the price and get all of the benefits while Disney tries to compete with new properties. Especially now, in a booming economy, exploding park attendance, and Star Wars knocking on the door.

I have a lot of issues with other things they've done -- like the 2020 point charts -- but the truth is for many years Disney was very generous when it came to resales by not differentiating between direct and resales. People frequently came on these boards to say only suckers bought direct, etc.

Things will almost certainly reset down the road if the economy his a recession. But for know, what Disney with the Riveria makes corporate sense. And if they find they can't sell Riveria because of the resale market, then they'll have to deal with that.

 

[miTnosnhoJ]

I know people are mad, and I get why -- but from the company's point of view, continuing to downgrade the value of resale points seems like it was the only way forward for DVC.

People can't expect to spend a portion of the price and get all of the benefits while Disney tries to compete with new properties. Especially now, in a booming economy, exploding park attendance, and Star Wars knocking on the door.

I have a lot of issues with other things they've done -- like the 2020 point charts -- but the truth is for many years Disney was very generous when it came to resales by not differentiating between direct and resales. People frequently came on these boards to say only suckers bought direct, etc.

Things will almost certainly reset down the road if the economy his a recession. But for know, what Disney with the Riveria makes corporate sense. And if they find they can't sell Riveria because of the resale market, then they'll have to deal with that.

Do you feel the same way about your personal home? You can sell it, but the “resale buyers” can’t use the neighborhood pool and tennis courts, and they can’t attend the public school.

 

[Madame]

I know people are mad, and I get why -- but from the company's point of view, continuing to downgrade the value of resale points seems like it was the only way forward for DVC.

People can't expect to spend a portion of the price and get all of the benefits while Disney tries to compete with new properties. Especially now, in a booming economy, exploding park attendance, and Star Wars knocking on the door.

I have a lot of issues with other things they've done -- like the 2020 point charts -- but the truth is for many years Disney was very generous when it came to resales by not differentiating between direct and resales. People frequently came on these boards to say only suckers bought direct, etc.

Things will almost certainly reset down the road if the economy his a recession. But for know, what Disney with the Riveria makes corporate sense. And if they find they can't sell Riveria because of the resale market, then they'll have to deal with that.

I paid more resale than MANY direct buyers.

 

[Matty B13]

No, DVC didn't have to do what they have done with the resale restrictions, they still were selling resorts out direct with little to no problem because most people didn't know about it in the first place. They were making plenty of money selling direct and the occasional resale contract direct. Now, DVC is just like all the other timeshare companies out there, except they have a little better access to Disney Theme Parks.

 

[JETSDAD]

Buying direct now for the new resorts requires being a bigger sucker than before...unless of course we find that resale buyers are willing to pay up for contracts that are only good at one resort.

 

[Dean]

I know people are mad, and I get why -- but from the company's point of view, continuing to downgrade the value of resale points seems like it was the only way forward for DVC.

People can't expect to spend a portion of the price and get all of the benefits while Disney tries to compete with new properties. Especially now, in a booming economy, exploding park attendance, and Star Wars knocking on the door.

I have a lot of issues with other things they've done -- like the 2020 point charts -- but the truth is for many years Disney was very generous when it came to resales by not differentiating between direct and resales. People frequently came on these boards to say only suckers bought direct, etc.

Things will almost certainly reset down the road if the economy his a recession. But for know, what Disney with the Riveria makes corporate sense. And if they find they can't sell Riveria because of the resale market, then they'll have to deal with that.

I agree and I've said so previously on a number of occasions

Do you feel the same way about your personal home? You can sell it, but the “resale buyers” can’t use the neighborhood pool and tennis courts, and they can’t attend the public school.

It's totally different but there are no guarantees on selling a personal residence either. A timeshare is a totally different animal and the paperwork one signs acknowledges the competition and the fact that there are only limited guarantees. DVD isn't restricting your right to sell, only the non contractual components. And in reality they didn't have to grandfather resale buyers, they could have made it retroactive in any way they so chose. And they could have announced the changes and points increase after the other restrictions went into effect.

 

[RescueRanger]

I know people are mad, and I get why -- but from the company's point of view, continuing to downgrade the value of resale points seems like it was the only way forward for DVC.

People can't expect to spend a portion of the price and get all of the benefits while Disney tries to compete with new properties. Especially now, in a booming economy, exploding park attendance, and Star Wars knocking on the door.

I have a lot of issues with other things they've done -- like the 2020 point charts -- but the truth is for many years Disney was very generous when it came to resales by not differentiating between direct and resales. People frequently came on these boards to say only suckers bought direct, etc.

Things will almost certainly reset down the road if the economy his a recession. But for know, what Disney with the Riveria makes corporate sense. And if they find they can't sell Riveria because of the resale market, then they'll have to deal with that.

No, this wasn’t the only way forward. You don’t devalue your product in order to drive up new business. All three of my contracts are direct or bought way before the grandfathering. You would think that I wouldn’t care but I do. If back when I bought, they would have made the current restrictions, I would not have bought in. Although I never plan on selling, life gets in the way sometimes. Never say never. The fact that DVC somewhat held a decent value on the resale market was a major reason for me buying in. Although these new restrictions won’t probably effect the legacy resales, you would have to be nuts to buy into Riviera or any of the new resorts from here on out. Their resale value will crash.
Here is a novel idea. Instead of taking away perks for resale, why don’t they add perks for direct buyers. Give direct buyers a 4th fastpass, bigger discounts on after hour events and parties. Give them early access to popular reservations before opening it up to the general public. There are alot of perks they could add that would be incentive to buy direct.

 

[Bearval]

I know people are mad, and I get why -- but from the company's point of view, continuing to downgrade the value of resale points seems like it was the only way forward for DVC.

People can't expect to spend a portion of the price and get all of the benefits while Disney tries to compete with new properties. Especially now, in a booming economy, exploding park attendance, and Star Wars knocking on the door.

I have a lot of issues with other things they've done -- like the 2020 point charts -- but the truth is for many years Disney was very generous when it came to resales by not differentiating between direct and resales. People frequently came on these boards to say only suckers bought direct, etc.

Things will almost certainly reset down the road if the economy his a recession. But for know, what Disney with the Riveria makes corporate sense. And if they find they can't sell Riveria because of the resale market, then they'll have to deal with that.

I totally agree with you,Disney did a lot in the past that they did not have to do with how they treated resale buyers. But now going forward you have to look at DVC like any other timeshare. You are essentially prepaying a large portion of your future vacation stays, it is not an investment and you can expect to lose a huge portion of what you paid for it if you sell. I think a lot of people got “spoiled” in the fact that Disney provided a great product and that most long time owners can sell their points for more than they paid for them. I am pretty sure that is a rare occurrence in other timeshare resorts.

 

[Bing Showei]

I totally agree with you,Disney did a lot in the past that they did not have to do with how they treated resale buyers. But now going forward you have to look at DVC like any other timeshare. You are essentially prepaying a large portion of your future vacation stays, it is not an investment and you can expect to lose a huge portion of what you paid for it if you sell. I think a lot of people got “spoiled” in the fact that Disney provided a great product and that most long time owners can sell their points for more than they paid for them.

I also totally agree. For far too long, my contracts maintaining value was spoiling me to the point of considering buying more points... direct at that new Riviera to boot! Thank goodness Disney has brought me back to my senses.

I am pretty sure that is a rare occurrence in other timeshare resorts.

Exactly. We should all be celebrating that Disney is taking steps to be like every other timeshare. That’ll show those resale buyers.

 

[jodifla]

I paid more resale than MANY direct buyers.

Then you bought in on the late side. One of the reasons I bought back in the '90s was I could see it was a good deal and fit with our vacations, and that being Disney, the price would only accelerate.

I even committed the mortal sin of financing the sale, because I was betting the price would escalate beyond a number I wanted to pay. My gamble paid off.

I've owned for 23 years, and expected the resale price to come down long before now, because only half of the contract is left. But in fact, I could sell it for at least double what I paid, maybe even triple the price. That could all end tomorrow, but I realized that as a risk from the beginning.

 

[DougEMG]

We should all be celebrating that Disney is taking steps to be like every other timeshare. That’ll show those resale buyers.

Resale only buyer here. Prior to owning, we would spend 8-10 days at WDW every few years, so not that often. Since owning we have averaged 27 days a year at WDW. That's a lot of park tickets, food and trinkets we've bought over that time that would never have been spent without us owning DVC. If DVC had of been like any other timeshare, I wouldn't have gone near them. DVC had a quality product. To my mind they are diminishing their brand and the value of their product for a few extra bucks. Very short term thinking.

 

[ziravan]

Buying direct now for the new resorts requires being a bigger sucker than before...unless of course we find that resale buyers are willing to pay up for contracts that are only good at one resort.

At least I could JUSTIFY buying direct for the new resort if that’s really where you wanted to stay.

In fact, I did justify it, buying Poly direct.

I don’t think it’s justifiable anymore.

That’s the biggest change I see: DVC has made buying direct almost never a good deal.

 

[JETSDAD]

At least I could JUSTIFY buying direct for the new resort if that’s really where you wanted to stay.

In fact, I did justify it, buying Poly direct.

I don’t think it’s justifiable anymore.

That’s the biggest change I see: DVC has made buying direct almost never a good deal.

I had been working on trying to justify Riviera direct...I was going to try to stay there on my current points and if we liked then we would have considered adding on there. Now, if we like it and it has hard to get rooms that I want, I'll just wait for resale to hit the market.

 

[Madame]

Then you bought in on the late side. One of the reasons I bought back in the '90s was I could see it was a good deal and fit with our vacations, and that being Disney, the price would only accelerate.

I even committed the mortal sin of financing the sale, because I was betting the price would escalate beyond a number I wanted to pay. My gamble paid off.

I've owned for 23 years, and expected the resale price to come down long before now, because only half of the contract is left. But in fact, I could sell it for at least double what I paid, maybe even triple the price. That could all end tomorrow, but I realized that as a risk from the beginning.

I was a teenager in the 90s.

 

[Dean]

I also totally agree. For far too long, my contracts maintaining value was spoiling me to the point of considering buying more points... direct at that new Riviera to boot! Thank goodness Disney has brought me back to my senses.

They haven't removed any options from current owners and while I doubt these changes will have much effect on sales options/prices going forward, they have no responsibility to prop up the resale prices. As stated in the POS and by common sense, you should not buy to resale and you are in direct competition with Disney in doing so. Any current owner and any future resale owner will have access to all the contractual options.

Exactly. We should all be celebrating that Disney is taking steps to be like every other timeshare. That’ll show those resale buyers.

The reality is they ARE just a timeshare (always have been) and there are several good ones out there. They are all different but at the end of the day, but they all have responsibilities to sell. New sales help the members as well. What they made on the contract a year, 2 or 10 year ago doesn't help them going forward. If you perceived that DVC was somehow different and isolated from the realties of timeshare sales, I believe you were mistaken. Timeshares change, most have changed more than DVC over the years, certainly that's true for Marriott, Fairfield/Wyndham and Bluegreen, the others I have direct experience with. There will be other changes going forward, it's inevitable.

 

[Bearval]

I had been working on trying to justify Riviera direct...I was going to try to stay there on my current points and if we liked then we would have considered adding on there. Now, if we like it and it has hard to get rooms that I want, I'll just wait for resale to hit the market.

I am thinking the same thing about buying resale at Riviera if I like it and the price is low enough without Disney ROFR the contract. Anyone going forward buying resale with the new resorts is going to have to adhere to the saying" buy where you want to stay", and you will be fine. You won't over pay and if you as a resale buyer has to sell you will not lose your shirt like the direct buyer will. I think the really hard part on this strategy is trying to get the contract since Disney will most likely buy most of them back if they are cheap enough. Question to everyone out there, what would you pay per point for a resale at Riviera with the restrictions if the direct price was $225 per point?

 

[Ben E N]

I am thinking the same thing about buying resale at Riviera if I like it and the price is low enough without Disney ROFR the contract. Anyone going forward buying resale with the new resorts is going to have to adhere to the saying" buy where you want to stay", and you will be fine. You won't over pay and if you as a resale buyer has to sell you will not lose your shirt like the direct buyer will. I think the really hard part on this strategy is trying to get the contract since Disney will most likely buy most of them back if they are cheap enough. Question to everyone out there, what would you pay per point for a resale at Riviera with the restrictions if the direct price was $225 per point?

It really will depend on how much someone wants to stay at only that resort. If BCV resale was restricted to only there, it would probably still go for $115 a point.
I'll throw in an early guess at $90 per point, but it really depends on the quality of the resort.

 

[Bearval]

I wonder how many current owners will be directly affected by the new changes? By the time 2042 rolls around and the early resorts begin to drop out to be redone and resold I will either be 6 feet under or senile. If I am the latter then you can just put me in a room spin my wheelchair around really fast while flickering the lights on and off and tell me I just rode on expedition Everest. In any case I am sure the Yeti will still not be working.

 

[Bing Showei]

What they made on the contract a year, 2 or 10 year ago doesn't help them going forward.

Are you suggesting that what is made on a sale supposed to support the business model for 2 or 10 years after? Why should Disney have any expectation beyond what income is generated from an original point sale?

Each point sold, if held onto the remainder of the 50-year RTU, should be exactly what Disney should expect to earn from the sale of that real estate interest, as that would be the right of that owner. There is no obligation from any owner of a point to “help them going forward.”

By that logic, Disney should have a right to to get in on the action when a daughter inherits a contract from her mother who PAID for the points. That inheritance doensn’t benefit Disney at all. In fact it is in direct competition as a potential buyer.

Once sold, Disney should have zero expectation around getting additional income beyond the dues that support the products maintenance. The resorts operate just fine and Disney generates enough income to support the continuation of the product. How much more does Disney need to squeeze from a sale? Given how few people actually know about resale, and the rate by which Disney sells out new properties, how severe is the resale competition?

DVC has been a huge financial boon for Disney. I would argue as a stakeholder with vested interest in the success of this product, adopting your “it’s in the contract so it’s legal and if it’s legal it’s ethical” is more detrimental and poses a greater risk to the future health and viability of the product than any resale market ever could.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

The hoops people jump through to justify Disney chipping away at their product (not just DVC but the entire overpriced vacation experience of today) is sort of a fascinating peek into human psychology.