is it me?

[KPeveler]

Bill, while I disagree with the example you used regarding parking spaces, i think i know what you are getting at...

when i was at Epcot last time, i used my wheelchair. at the american adventure show, there were two people in ECVs waiting to see the show. we were all on the second floor watching the pre show, and they both got off their ECVs and stood for the 15 minute pre-show. they were in disney rented scooter, so the ECVs did not have any specialized seating they required. they then, when going into the show, insisted they could not transfer into a regular seat, thereby taking up two wheelchair spots. there were not enough wheelchair spots for everyone who needed them, and a woman had to transfer when it was obvious it was difficult for her. i think it would have been polite for the person in the scooter to transfer, since the disney scooter seats are just as comfortable as the theatre seats, and it was obvious from their standing through the 15 minute pre-show that they could in fact stand and walk a very short distance...

they also tried to cut me off in my wheelchair going into the theatre and were annoyed that 3 manual chairs got to go in before them (nothing to do with manual chairs being better than scooters - it has to do with the layout of the theatre - the manual chairs can fit in places scooters cannot), so i think they were just unpleasant people.

however, i agree with bill in principle, if not that example... there ARE ranges of disabilities. i can tell this because my disability is getting worse, and i am more limited than i was before. i need more accommodations now than i did before. i think more what bill meant was people with disabilties that limit them less should try to leave things open for people with more limiting problems, if it is possible for them and will not cause them problems. most days it is not a problem for me to park 2 or 3 spaces further out than the wheelchair spaces and i do so. however, i rarely can make it from all the way out in the parking lot.

there are some days i have to use the handicapped stall because i have dislocated my hip and cannot stand without assistance. on "good days" i am still sick, my disease still exists, and i may still be entitled to use the handicapped stall, as i am still sick. however, i do not use the stall except when necessary, because there may be someone who needs it more. that does not make my disability any less real or valid, it just means there is a range of needs and my personal belief is that i should use what is necessary and no more to make it through/enjoy my day. however, that is my belief, and everyone must live their own life.

in disney, i feel the same, except more emphasis should be put on "enjoying" your day rather than merely surviving it. if you need a GAC to enjoy disney, then use it!

*gets off soapbox*

this is MY opinion and i am not saying everyone, or anyone even, must agree with me.

 

[SueM in MN]

Bill comparing disabilities IMO is wrong. The cane guy could have terminal cancer and be in massive pain whereas the wheelchair user may not have use of their legs without any other health issues. This is where we should not even judge the person whether in the wheelchair or not. In this scenario the wheelchair user could park farther away and still make it into the establishment safely.

We never know the back story of anyone and that is my point. People with disabilities should support each other instead of have "in fighting" of who has it worse or who deserves what more.

I don't think that there should be any fighting about who can do whatever and I would not judge someone who parked in a handicapped spot as to whether they 'deserved' it or not. If they have a handicapped parking permit issued to them, they have a legal right to park there.
But, I would ask people to think about their options. If there is a non-handicapped spot that is a few feet away and the person with a handicapped permit feels up to parking there, many that I know would park there rather than take up that handicapped spot. If there is a choice between a regular handicapped spot and a van accessible handicapped spot, I'd ask people to save the van accessible spot for someone who needs that extra space if they can. Many people are not even aware that there is a difference in the spots and would park there if they were aware.
In Bill's example, even if there were 10 regular spots available at equal distance to the handicapped spot, he could not park in one of them because he needs the extra space that comes with the handicapped spot.
So, more deserving, no.
But, if he can't get one of the few handicapped spots that are available, he can't park farther away. He can't park at all.

Bill; I' not flaming you, really-but while I will always make every effort not to use a van accessible space, if I am in a flare up-which makes my already significant pain truly agonizing, and especially if I have my kids w/ me (who both have mult. disabilities and are "runners" particularly in parking lots), then yes, having to walk past another 20 or so parking spaces is truly tortuous. By the way, some places only have 1 or 2 spaces and they are both "accessible" meaning by your opinion I shouldn't use either. I might also point out that another driver has no way of knowing whether you have a w/c in your car or not. I just think that things are more complicated than they may appear at first glance. (And for the record, if it was you and me, I knew you were a w/c user, etc. Yes, I would give you the space- but you'd better help me herd my kids out of traffic in return- deal?)
Nicole

The biggest problem is that there are not enough accessible spots.

End of tangent on parking..................

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

Sue I completely agree. My point is not who is most deserving but not to judge other people's disabilities.

Right now I am pregnant and going through SERIOUS medical treatment to assure this baby doesn't stroke like Chris did and the whole med team has offered a handicapped placard for me. I am fully able to walk and although sometimes I am completely annihilated by the treatment I will not get one because of this reason. I know there are people worse off than I am. But another mom with my condition may opt for it and I would never begrudge her of it.

I don't even have a placard for Chris and he has severe brain damage with issues from that including seizures that immobilize him and lack of impulse control which he will be a darter running through the parking lot and get hit by a car if I don't keep a good handle on him. With that said I accommodate him in other ways and that does not mean we will not need a placard someday, we will, but right now the stroller works for us. I feel 'leave the placard to those who have more issues'. But like I said I would never begrudge another mom in my situation for using one. It is not my place to judge.

This is where I think the whole GAC discussion gets out of control. If the people at guest relations issue it why do others feel they are the "police" of it? Guest relations already approved it for them let it be IMO. We shouldn't be at each other about it and who deserves it more than another. But I think I have said enough about it. I repeat myself a lot LOL. I just wish we didn't have to deal with any of it. I would eat the GAC if that would mean Chris would never need it again.

 

[merryweather20]

Bill comparing disabilities IMO is wrong. The cane guy could have terminal cancer and be in massive pain whereas the wheelchair user may not have use of their legs without any other health issues. This is where we should not even judge the person whether in the wheelchair or not. In this scenario the wheelchair user could park farther away and still make it into the establishment safely.

We never know the back story of anyone and that is my point. People with disabilities should support each other instead of have "in fighting" of who has it worse or who deserves what more.

I'm not sure what you mean here. In your example the person in the wheel-chair could certainly park farther out. But not only would they not make it into the establishment safely, they wouldn't be able to get out of their car.

In your example the person in the wheel-chair wasn't worse off, they didn't deserve more, they simply had to go home because what they needed wasn't available.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

I'm not sure what you mean here. In your example the person in the wheel-chair could certainly park farther out. But not only would they not make it into the establishment safely, they wouldn't be able to get out of their car.

In your example the person in the wheel-chair wasn't worse off, they didn't deserve more, they simply had to go home because what they needed wasn't available.

My point is that we don't know the circumstance of anyone whether they are in a wheelchair or not. Just by looking at someone you cannot in the few minutes of seeing them judge "how disabled" they are or 'deserving' of a spot.

Now the need for more spots is definitely a problem. No one should have to leave because of no spots being available.

 

[mechurchlady]

How much more disabled space should shows have? The idea of disabled spots is to allow the guest to see the show not get in earlier than other people. Usually when a show is crowded I have noticed teamwork among the disabled and not an us vesus them mentality. I have sat in regular seating instead of use my ECV because a show is crowded. It is just the waiting in line, stampeding herds of people using me for a bowling pin, and the narrow seats at the hyperion at DCA ouch.

Judge not lest you be judged. For me it is cumulative as i got so much mental strength and when i am tired i meltdown to the point of self abuse, road rage, and giving up on life. Not to mention the pain etc. and limited mobility and flexibility aka becoming a pretzel. Yeah I can waddle fast but in 10 minutes i will be in corner crying tired or have hurt something again like straining muscles.

I will not ask why people ahve a GAC or disabled parking though I am curious how a 25 year old with great health got that GAC or whatever

 

[merryweather20]

My point is that we don't know the circumstance of anyone whether they are in a wheelchair or not. Just by looking at someone you cannot in the few minutes of seeing them judge "how disabled" they are or 'deserving' of a spot.

Now the need for more spots is definitely a problem. No one should have to leave because of no spots being available.

Again its not a case of judging, or being "more deserving" or more disabled. That person simply goes home.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

The message I'm getting out of Bills (and some others ) way of thinking, is SO not about being 'intitled'. The whole point being raised is about helping eachother, being considerate. There will almost allways be a situation at one point of time where one person with a disability and need could get by with just a little less than what the are 'intitled' to, and 'giving up' that 'intitlement' for right then and there would just be the dealbreaker for another person with a disability and need. And no, you can't allways see all within one look, some things are hidden, but come on. We all have common sense to be able to think about the basics.

It isn't about who's the worst disabled person out there. It's not about intitlement. It's about people helping one and other. Thinking about yourself and others. Just like it is for AB's to have some common sense to give us a helping hand when needed. It's about keeping WDW accessible for all and us playing our part in that just like AB's need to.

 

[SueM in MN]

The message I'm getting out of Bills (and some others ) way of thinking, is SO not about being 'intitled'. The whole point being raised is about helping eachother, being considerate. There will almost allways be a situation at one point of time where one person with a disability and need could get by with just a little less than what the are 'intitled' to, and 'giving up' that 'intitlement' for right then and there would just be the dealbreaker for another person with a disability and need. And no, you can't allways see all within one look, some things are hidden, but come on. We all have common sense to be able to think about the basics.

It isn't about who's the worst disabled person out there. It's not about intitlement. It's about people helping one and other. Thinking about yourself and others. Just like it is for AB's to have some common sense to give us a helping hand when needed. It's about keeping WDW accessible for all and us playing our part in that just like AB's need to.

That is what I was trying to get at.
Giving a helping hand if you can.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

Well, how could you be trying to get at anything else than that? You do nothing but give a helping hand on here so much, I'm starting to think your second name is Helpinghands.

 

[SueM in MN]

This looks like a good point to end this thread - helping each other and being considerate.
Someone asked earlier in the thread, "Why do you post things like this on a support board.... people feel like it is directed toward them."
Everyone is responsible for their own words (I am not responsible for this thread, only my own words in this thread). This WAS someone's thoughts. Deleting it as soon as it was posted will not make the thoughts go away and the thoughts that are out there/discussion are tame compared to what is out in the real world.
Most of the thoughts on this thread can be thought of as a friend trying to understand needs he/she has never encountered.

I will address some of the things brought up here on a different thread, but this one is closed.