Idea to improve DAS

[aaarcher86]

No, depending on the ride, you stay within the "accessible" queue right in line with everyone else. If you are close to the front and the party ahead needs the accessible car, they may allow a couple of parties to pass ahead. But generally, if you are in the "alternate" queue which is also used for those with mobility aids, whether or not you are transferring or need the accessible vehicle, all will wait. This is from our experience at WDW. I can't speak for DLR, but with fewer accessible queues and (what sounds like) even more with mobility aids, I think it's similar. That is one of the major problems debated here, though not always clearly. OP is making a suggestion to improve DAS because those in wheelchairs are waiting an exhoribant amount of time already.

I agree they're already waiting an incredible amount of time. I've seen a lot of people saying they just get brought to the front to just grab the next car which is where I was getting my viewpoint from.

The entire que system for alternate entry sounds like it needs a bit of revamping. I still think the DAS does it's job for those who do not need the alternate entrances.

 

[Mom2six]

If you don't need an accessible vehicle aren't you brought to the front and put in a regular vehicle?

No, we never were when we went into those lines with the stroller as wheelchair tag. We always waited in order.

 

[Sunnywho]

From the sound if it, those in wheelchairs or those needing the accessible cars are absolutely at a disadvantage. Those obtaining a wait time and going through the normal FP lines are not, IMO.

Whether they're at an advantage or a disadvantage would depend on their disability, which is very individual.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I agree they're already waiting an incredible amount of time. I've seen a lot of people saying they just get brought to the front to just grab the next car which is where I was getting my viewpoint from.

The entire que system for alternate entry sounds like it needs a bit of revamping. I still think the DAS does it's job for those who do not need the alternate entrances.

Agree 100%. It really sounds like the biggest problem regarding inequitable wait times is for the alternate entry attractions.

 

[Mom2six]

Nobody said people should stay home. That is horrible to even suggest.
ALL kids should get to ride, not ONLY disabled kids. Disabled children are not more deserving of fun than non-disabled kids. One of the most horrifying experiences I have had was a group of women at an early intervention outing explaining how nice it must be to have a "neurotypical" child - referring to my 2 year old who could barely sit up to watch their children peacefully playing in a group. So can we stop acting like we can judge which person is "worthy" to ride rides over others? Having or not having a DAS or GAC does not equate to the joy and value of a ride.

I'm sure it would get old pretty fast if your only trip to Disney was spent in line waiting for kids deemed more deserving than you to get to ride.

I actually go on far more rides when touring with only my neurotypical children. We wait in the normal line, and the whole experience is 100 percent easier than when my son with autism tours the park. No, not ONLY disabled kids should ride...what you don't understand is that without assistance the disabled children won't be able to ride at all. Sure, I want my 7 year old daughter to ride just as much as my 5 year old - the fact is she does so much more at WDW than my year old because she does not have his disability.

She enjoys many rides. She is not afraid when waiting in line, even though she has severe ADHD and is quite fidgety. She enjoys the restaurants and characters and stopping for a snack. He is terrified of new things. He has horrible panic attacks in long lines. He doesn't like to be crowded in. He can't process the sensory input very well. He loves Disney World and loves some of the rides and thinks the characters are his close friends. But even the rides he adores, he can't just get up and go on (or line up for). They scare him (even though he likes it), and he has to build up to it. And by the time he works up the nerve to go on a ride, if we have to wait a long time, he loses it. He then has all that emotional build-up, and not riding it will mean a full blown melt down and leaving the park.

I don't think any kids are more deserving than any other kids. I think all kids should be able to have the chance to go on rides and to see characters. This past trip in September, we mostly did not spend time together as a family. My son spent the majority of the time in the room. And this was with a GAC not the DAS, so I don't know how he will manage it then.

 

[Mom2six]

I've been reading all of these posts and I don't have much to say about most if it. I don't think there is a good solution that will make even a majority of people happy. But when the discussion came to "immediate gratification" and the incentive for abuse. I got lost. Here is how I see it:
Rope drop at HS. 1000 people heading for Toy Story Mania. If 1% of them have a DAS, that is 10 DAS groups. Say 4 in a group for a total of 40 DAS riders. It may take them a little longer to get to the ride, so say the wait time is 20-30 minutes at that point- then they ALL get to get on immediately and have a "wait time" of 20 minutes after the ride is over- (which will probably be used just in the FP lane anyway if they all get in there almost at the same time- even longer if they have to wait for accessible vehicles). Meanwhile the wait time is going to jump up to 60+ minutes very quickly for most everyone else in the standby line- with fastpasses very late into the day or even gone- so no other option than standby for most. The DAS groups could possibly be on their 3rd ride (or maybe even more if it is a DAS abuser and not truly disabled and can run from ride to ride and take advantage of early morning lower wait times) by the time many of those initial 1000 get through TSM. THAT could be an "incentive" for abuse with this system.

** I am NOT debating if it would benefit anyone that needed it or not- just saying how it would look very attractive for those looking to "beat" the system.

So, my son should have to suffer to make up for cheaters and abusers? You are saying that abuse would make others wait longer, so better that the disabled have to give up touring the parks or wait longer and maybe go on no rides because they should pay for con artists and frauds? Why is my 5 year old son responsible for bad behavior of others?

 

[AndreaA]

Agree 100%. It really sounds like the biggest problem regarding inequitable wait times is for the alternate entry attractions.

But it's not just those rides. There are plenty of people who have a DAS in addition to needing a wheelchair. That means they are going through the regular FP line and everyone behind them is waiting for them to get their one accessible ride car. We were in a FP line with our GAC and waited for the people a few parties ahead of us. We we're not pulled ahead of them.

So, my son should have to suffer to make up for cheaters and abusers? You are saying that abuse would make others wait longer, so better that the disabled have to give up touring the parks or wait longer and maybe go on no rides because they should pay for con artists and frauds? Why is my 5 year old son responsible for bad behavior of others?

Well said. No system is ever going to be completely "fair", (meaning identical wait times) or immune from abuse. It seems like the are two camps. Those who want the system to be "more fair" for the disabled, and those who want the system to be "more fair" for the average guest. The thing is, that the inequity has far different results for each group. If the disabled people get a better system then the average guest might have to wait a little longer. And yes, it is a LITTLE LONGER, unless someone is going to come forward and say that standby times have suddenly halved since the inception of the DAS. Meanwhile, if the average guest gets the better system then the disabled guests will have very difficult trips, in some cases resulting in an absolute inability to tour the parks. How is that okay?

I would really really like to know if the standby lines have suddenly plummeted now that the GAC is gone. From what I am reading about people there now or recently returned, the answer is an emphatic no. So yeah. The new system isn't cutting down on those hour long waits, it's just making trips difficult or impossible for those who can't make the adjustment. Where's the benefit again?

 

[aaarcher86]

I actually go on far more rides when touring with only my neurotypical children. We wait in the normal line, and the whole experience is 100 percent easier than when my son with autism tours the park. No, not ONLY disabled kids should ride...what you don't understand is that without assistance the disabled children won't be able to ride at all. Sure, I want my 7 year old daughter to ride just as much as my 5 year old - the fact is she does so much more at WDW than my year old because she does not have his disability. She enjoys many rides. She is not afraid when waiting in line, even though she has severe ADHD and is quite fidgety. She enjoys the restaurants and characters and stopping for a snack. He is terrified of new things. He has horrible panic attacks in long lines. He doesn't like to be crowded in. He can't process the sensory input very well. He loves Disney World and loves some of the rides and thinks the characters are his close friends. But even the rides he adores, he can't just get up and go on (or line up for). They scare him (even though he likes it), and he has to build up to it. And by the time he works up the nerve to go on a ride, if we have to wait a long time, he loses it. He then has all that emotional build-up, and not riding it will mean a full blown melt down and leaving the park. I don't think any kids are more deserving than any other kids. I think all kids should be able to have the chance to go on rides and to see characters. This past trip in September, we mostly did not spend time together as a family. My son spent the majority of the time in the room. And this was with a GAC not the DAS, so I don't know how he will manage it then.

Would it be possible to spread out the FP+ times in conjunction with the DAS and build him up for the rides that has the return time coming up?

 

[OurBigTrip]

So, my son should have to suffer to make up for cheaters and abusers? You are saying that abuse would make others wait longer, so better that the disabled have to give up touring the parks or wait longer and maybe go on no rides because they should pay for con artists and frauds? Why is my 5 year old son responsible for bad behavior of others?

Regardless of what the cheaters and scammers did, IMO everyone should have to wait, except for Wish kids.

 

[Mom2six]

...If it is not so bright and shiney, some of those families will choose to spend their energy planning more intelligently, rather than walking into HS at noon and expecting to immediately ride TSM, RNR and TOT within a couple hours.

Then there are situations, as you are saying, where a person can not be planned out, can not "just learn to wait"- this is the exception to the norm, even among those who need assistance. Just as it is not reasonable for you to not get an extra hand, it is not fair that anybody can walk in to GS, say they cant wait (simplifying here) and get all of the accomodations needed by an individual with a much more complex situation.

We do smart planning. We go on recommended days, get there as early as we can, and have a touring plan. It is not enough to allow my son to go on rides. I agree everyone shouldn't be able to get the same accommodations- it should be based on true need. I do wish that proof could be used because I sure would bring it and support having to prove the disability.

 

[aaarcher86]

Whether they're at an advantage or a disadvantage would depend on their disability, which is very individual.

Well, everyone waits. It's just a question as to where. People have the ability this way of taking care of their needs and accessing a ride or attraction. And I really don't find that unreasonable.

 

[OurBigTrip]

But it's not just those rides. There are plenty of people who have a DAS in addition to needing a wheelchair. That means they are going through the regular FP line and everyone behind them is waiting for them to get their one accessible ride car. We were in a FP line with our GAC and waited for the people a few parties ahead of us. We we're not pulled ahead of them.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but are you saying that if someone in a wheelchair is in the Fast Pass line, and they need an accessible vehicle, everyone behind them has to wait until one comes along? If so, I agree, that's ridiculous.

I would really really like to know if the standby lines have suddenly plummeted now that the GAC is gone. From what I am reading about people there now or recently returned, the answer is an emphatic no. So yeah. The new system isn't cutting down on those hour long waits, it's just making trips difficult or impossible for those who can't make the adjustment. Where's the benefit again?

The benefit is that everyone is waiting their turn, which is as it should be, IMO.

 

[aaarcher86]

But it's not just those rides. There are plenty of people who have a DAS in addition to needing a wheelchair. That means they are going through the regular FP line and everyone behind them is waiting for them to get their one accessible ride car. We were in a FP line with our GAC and waited for the people a few parties ahead of us. We we're not pulled ahead of them. I would really really like to know if the standby lines have suddenly plummeted now that the GAC is gone. From what I am reading about people there now or recently returned, the answer is an emphatic no. So yeah. The new system isn't cutting down on those hour long waits, it's just making trips difficult or impossible for those who can't make the adjustment. Where's the benefit again?

I've seen (it escapes me where) a post from a CM saying the ques are flowing much more reasonably. There was some percentage given. Both parks have had a HUGE increase in park attendance that normally isn't happening this time of year so I think it's really hard to gauge it very well just yet. I was also under the impression that if you need an accessible vehicle you go that particular line, not throughout he regular FP line even with a DAS. The podcast also have an example of people in the handicap line with DAS cards being pulled to the front.

Disney really can't be responsible or held accountable for difficulty in adjusting. They have to change things as a business as needed. Things change all the time with life and adjusting has to happen. They can't keep a broken system around because guests have a difficult time with a new routine.

 

[curemyreed]

For those of you willing to acknowledge WC users who are DAS card holders are sometimes having to wait an unequal & longer amount of time to ride an attraction AND you are also concerned about people "gaming the system".....I am seeing different suggestions by you about how to equalize the situation. Two examples I have seen are for these guests to be admitted directly into the FP line (or WC accessible entry, if different) or to have a different DAS system for these guests. Do you not think that the same pukes who abused the system before will not just lie again to get a DAS card and park their butts in a WC to get this access? If you are worried about people "cheating" then this is an easy avenue to do so.

I don't know what the answer to fix this problem of waiting longer than standby riders would be. I think cmwade77's suggested DAS system addresses the issue better than anything else I have read. If the remedy is to allow this segment of DAS users to go directly into FP return lines (or WC accessible entries, if different) I believe the same rotten people who faked disability before will see an opportunity to do so again. Are the vile people willing to fake their way into the situation going make me say, "Well, too bad for you. You will have to wait longer than others so that no cheaters game the system."? Nope. The needs of the many for equal access outweigh the affront of the few who would abuse the system.

 

[jenineh]

I've seen (it escapes me where) a post from a CM saying the ques are flowing much more reasonably. There was some percentage given. Both parks have had a HUGE increase in park attendance that normally isn't happening this time of year so I think it's really hard to gauge it very well just yet. I was also under the impression that if you need an accessible vehicle you go that particular line, not throughout he regular FP line even with a DAS. The podcast also have an example of people in the handicap line with DAS cards being pulled to the front. Disney really can't be responsible or held accountable for difficulty in adjusting. They have to change things as a business as needed. Things change all the time with life and adjusting has to happen. They can't keep a broken system around because guests have a difficult time with a new routine.

Very well said!

 

[AndreaA]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but are you saying that if someone in a wheelchair is in the Fast Pass line, and they need an accessible vehicle, everyone behind them has to wait until one comes along? If so, I agree, that's ridiculous.



The benefit is that everyone is waiting their turn, which is as it should be, IMO.

Yes, there were wheelchairs in the FP line.

As to our second statement, everyone in the proposed system is also waiting, and if the issue is that their waiting is done while riding or walking, well in the current system, people can ride things while they wait. If the proposed system means that someone will use up their wait while walking to the next attraction, that is actually one fewer ride they are able to do. It would also be easy to add a length of ride to the wait time and even a five minute travel allotment if that's what people are dickering over.

And man, your world really is black and white isn't it? It sounds like you wouldn't even care if the new system actually resulted in longer waits for you and the disabled people you would still endorse it because it's equal.

 

[curemyreed]

[QUOTEThey can't keep a broken system around because guests have a difficult time with a new routine.[/QUOTE]

I agree that they can't keep this broken DAS system around. Although I don't think it is broken due to guests having a hard time with a new routine. But rather because it is forcing some guests to wait longer than those in standby lines. And forcing disabled people to travel around more to ride an attraction. I hope that Disney will work to fix this broken system. Surely, they are noting the flaws and working toward fixing it. I believe them when they say they want all guests to have an equal opportunity to enjoy their parks. I hope they don't continue too long subjecting the disabled to inequality just to appease those who think that different access is better than what they are getting.

 

[aaarcher86]

As far as gaming the system if people are allowed straight into the accessible line, they still have to wait. I can't see it being very attractive for a gamer... They just shouldn't have to wait twice. I'm sure there are times that the stars align and they get right onto an attraction but I'd say that's rare. The biggest draw for the scammers was going right into the FP line and waiting 10 minutes whenever they wanted.

[QUOTEThey can't keep a broken system around because guests have a difficult time with a new routine.

I agree that they can't keep this broken DAS system around. Although I don't think it is broken due to guests having a hard time with a new routine. But rather because it is forcing some guests to wait longer than those in standby lines. And forcing disabled people to travel around more to ride an attraction. I hope that Disney will work to fix this broken system. Surely, they are noting the flaws and working toward fixing it. I believe them when they say they want all guests to have an equal opportunity to enjoy their parks. I hope they don't continue too long subjecting the disabled to inequality just to appease those who think that different access is better than what they are getting.[/QUOTE]

It's not so much in this thread, but I've seen a slew of complaints from people who are unhappy about having to wait before they can go into the FP line. There's also a lot of criticism saying their children don't have the cognitive ability to understand why they can't do something immediately like they have before, but this thread has really kind of turned into more of a discussion on added waits for the accessible/alternate entrance lines.

 

[Schmeck]

You're right, it would make it easier. It seems silly to me that people will walk around the parks with cards that have their pictures that identify them as people with a disability yet we cannot show medical proof even if we want to do that.

Medical proof shows a disability, but it does not show what accommodations would help someone. As it has been stated many times before, two people with the same disability do not necessarily have the same needs for accommodation.

And don't forget the notorious doctor's notes that state "this child cannot wait in line and needs immediate access."

 

[Sunnywho]

Well, everyone waits. It's just a question as to where. People have the ability this way of taking care of their needs and accessing a ride or attraction. And I really don't find that unreasonable.

If the wait for the autistic child is 10 times harder than the wait for the neurotypical child, than the autistic child is at a disadvantage, even if the wait is of equal length and even if the autistic child is allowed to wander the park while waiting. It's not possible to achieve equality. We are all too different. If the focus instead is on access, there should be no insurmountable obstacles between a disabled guest and a ride. A single parent at Disney World with an autistic child is expected to approach a ride and then leave with a time and then go back when the time is up: for some this is doable, for some it is not. The flipped-wait plan proposed by cmwade solves this. It's kinda brilliant and it will probably invite more abuse but I'd rather see the margin of error be on more abusers getting in than on more disabled guests getting shut out.