Idea to improve DAS

[SueM in MN]

I kind of wonder he same thing. I imagine Disney did their homework on this. I wonder if they based it off of WDW and how the theme parks in Florida operate over California. And perhaps,they wanted to keep the same system at both places to lessen confusion.

I think they did want go keep the system the same on both coasts.

I also think they did their homework. Although many people think Disney just pulled this all out since The story of the rich people hiring disabled tour guides earlier in 2013, Disney has been working on this for a long time (from what I know, about 2 years, maybe more).

There are differences in park attendance at different parks that may impact how they can handle guests with disabilities. Here's a list of estimated park attendance for 2012 for the 25 most attended theme parks in the world. Disney has the top 8 spots and 3 others in the top 20.

1. Magic Kingdom: 17,536,000 (+2.3% change)
2. Disneyland Park: 15,963,000 (-1.1% )
3. Tokyo Disneyland: 14,847,000 (+8.5%)
4. Tokyo Disney Sea: 12,656,000 (+8.5%)
5. Disneyland Park, Disneyland Paris: 11,200,000 (+1.9%)
6. Epcot: 11,063,000 (+2.2%)
7. Disney’s Animal Kingdom: 9,998,000 (+2.2%)
8. Disney’s Hollywood Studios: 9,912,000 (+2.2%)
9. Universal Studios Japan: 9,700,000 (+14.1%)
10. Islands of Adventure: 7,981,000 (+4%)
11. Disney California Adventure: 7,775,000 (+22.6%)
12. Ocean Park (Hong Kong): 7, 436,000 (+6.9%)
13. Everland (South Korea): 6,853,000 (+4.3%)
14. Hong Kong Disneyland: 6,700,000 (+13.6%)
15. Lotte World (South Korea): 6,383,000 (10.4%)
16. Universal Studios Orlando: 6,195,000 (+2.5%)
17. Universal Studios Hollywood: 5,912,000 (+15%)
18. Nagashima Spa Land (Japan): 5,850,000 (+.5%)
19. Sea World Orlando: 5,358,000 (+3.0%)
20. Walt Disney Studios Park, Disneyland Paris: 4,800,000 (1.9%)
21. Europa Park (Germany): 4,600,000 (+2.2%)
22. Sea World California: 4,4000,000 (+3.5%)
23. Busch Gardens Tampa Bay: 4,348,000 (+1.5%)
24. De Efteling (Netherlands): 4,200,000 (+1.8%)
25. Oct East (China): 4,196,000 (+7.9%)

http://thedisneyblog.com/2013/06/06/global-themepark-attendance-for-2012-via-tea-report/

And, then, there are the attractions themselves. Each Disney park has a couple of 'headliner' attractions that normally attract large crowds and have long waits.
I don't know that dome of the parks that people are saying use the system the OP suggests have that same situation.
In a case where most attractions have similar demand and similar waits, it doesn't matter much whether guests wait before or after riding - because the wait will be the same before or after, there is little incentive for anyone to try to scam the system.
In a case where some attractions have large demand (like Toy Story Midway Mania) and others usually have little wait (like Imagination, which is usually as fast as guests can walk in) there is potential for abuse, at the expense of guests who really need assistance. A system that offered immediate entry would soon end up like the GAC or similar),

 

[KPeveler]

I so hope they will give credence to guest feedback and make changes as needed. My experience is that Disney does a ton of customer surveys. I have easily done 10 in the last 5 years. That leads me to believe they do care to provide the best they can.

I do have a concern that establishing two new systems simultaneously at WDW---the DAS implementation and the current testing of the FP+ system---may have Disney spread too thin. I worry that there are less people paying attention to problems, glitches, etc. Does this concern you?

I can tell you that though DL does not have FP+ yet (nor will for between 2 and 5 years depending on who you ask), they are trying to implement two new systems - the DAS and the wheelchair return times. This is not an issue in DCA, but in DL, there are somewhere between 9 and 13 attractions that have or can have a WC Return Ticket. They started with 9, and may add or subtract attractions based on wait times, time of year, etc. This may not sound like much, but they are the top 9 attractions, and 5 are all on one side of the park (with all you can do while waiting for your return time with a stand-by queue I am allowed in with my wc be Winnie the Pooh). It is really stretching the CMs thin, and not every attraction that has it is equipped to handle both WC RT and DAS RT. Some really do manage to make sure DAS gets priority when a returnee line forms, some simply do not have the ability - it was hard enough for some attractions to figure out how to make an accessible queue!

I still hold that the instant access with the wait afterwards will end up causing more abuse, for exactly the reasons I explained earlier in the thread. I even laid out a 5 hour trip in the park where I would get on 8 attractions, 4 of them E-ticket rides, with a total stand-by time of 4 hours and 40 minutes.... But I would not actually wait that long if I had instant access. All I need to do is pair a short wait before a long one, and I am good - I even had time for lunch and bathroom breaks in my schedule.

Also, if it becomes known that you can go right in with a DAS, and "wait after," then you have a MUCH higher percentage of people wanting to abuse the system. People either lying or exaggerating their needs will get the card, and use it only on E-ticket rides, then wait the in the regular stand-by for shorter waits until they are "allowed" in again. The only way to stop it would be for it to be used in conjunction with the RFID system where each person in the party entering the ride "immediately" with the DAS was scanned, and each and every person going on every single ride had to scan their Magic Band (which does not exist in DL) going into every single other ride, so as to weed out the people who are still "waiting."

While they need to alter the system, to allow for the fact that we wait once we arrive at the attraction, especially in a standard FP line, having people wait before going on is what is keeping a lot of the abusers away.

Of course some people still will lie and cheat - that will always happen. But anything that sends a person right into a FP line with the assumption they will be good people and not get in another line until their wait is up will be abused much more readily, in my opinion.

 

[KPeveler]

We do smart planning. We go on recommended days, get there as early as we can, and have a touring plan. It is not enough to allow my son to go on rides. I agree everyone shouldn't be able to get the same accommodations- it should be based on true need. I do wish that proof could be used because I sure would bring it and support having to prove the disability.

The problem with proof being needed is two-fold. One is that the law was not written by or for Disney, it was written for everywhere. And I certainly do not want to have to carry papers with me proving I really do need my wheelchair.

The second problem is bigger, and I am NOT inviting debate on this topic, as it will entirely derail the thread. There problem is this:

What is "true need?" And who decides?

The government? The person with no medical knowledge working at Disney? Whatever doctor wrote the note?

That would require a "ranking" of disability, judging "who is worse" and "who is bad enough." Well what if I, as the decider of "true need" (and who knows, I may be hired in just such a capacity one day) decide that my need as a person with a rare genetic disorder, who requires extremely strong pain medication even to get up every day, who will always use a wheelchair, "outranks" your child. I certainly do not want some stranger getting to say "Her disease is worse than your child's disease."

That is the idea behind the one system - because no one wants to play the "who is worse" game. There is NO WAY to compare my daily experience to a child with profound autism. It is like comparing apples and moon rocks. They are not even from the same planet.

Does that mean the DAS is perfect, and works for everyone? No, of course not. I have used it many times on many days with many different crowd levels and I will be the first to admit, it had problems. I am not convinced it should be the system the OP is proposing, but it does need to be tweaked. Perhaps with more time reduced, 20 minutes instead of 10, or even 30 for some attractions. I believe that it should be 20 minutes removed for travel and wait time. And I know some lines are longer than the 20 minutes, but some are shorter, so that will help.

I also believe that any ride with a wait of less than 30 minutes, a person with a DAS should not need a return time, but be allowed to get in any stand-by alternate entry/FP line that is there. A person with a return time would get priority over any returnee line. Once a wait time hits 30 minutes, then a return time is needed.

The reason the system is so constricted now, with such short allowances being made is because it is easier to give than to take back. Can you imagine what would happen if they had originally allowed for 30 minutes removed from the stand-by time and then reduced that to 20???

It is easier for them to say "You can get a second return time, so long as the first return time has arrived" than to try that in the beginning and have to take it away.

Yes, the system WILL be tweaked. And Disney did a lot of research on this before putting it out there (though I think roll-out was rushed due to the news coverage). But it is MUCH easier to give ground than to need to scale back what was being given out.

In fact, legally speaking, it may be tricky to remove accommodation once it is out there.

 

[cmwade77]

I just want to say that I just got back from the parks.

Since I had to renew my DAS, I spent a moment and asked about my concerns with the system.
somehow they managed to fix the waiting when returning. She did tell me that they ate definitely looking for feedback right now and are trying to make changes, most of which are on the backend at the moment, to where you might not know what they are doing, only seeing the results.

Everywhere we went only had about 5-10 minute waits when you returned, even racers. This is a huge improvement over what it was.

They also clearly stated that if you have a DAS and go back to a ride like Pirates, you essentially have a FP for the accessible queue. This is apparently the new official policy. This is true no matter if you also have a wheelchair or not, as you have already waited your turn.

As for attractions near closing at DLR, they would like you to leave enough time tobe able to get from the kiosk to the attraction 5 minutes before closing and they will simply make the return time for 5 minutes before closing. Is it a perfect solution? No, but it is better and this is now the official policy.

They are aware of the extra traveling issue and are working to add more kiosks, but don't have the manpower right now. Apparently most of the guest Relations CMs at DLR are working 13+ hour shifts, six days a week just to try to provide enough manpower. So, if you live in Southern California and are looking for a job, I would think applying to work in GR at DLR would be an easy job to get right now.

The takeaway is that they ARE listening and trying to make improvements. But they are also overworked right now at DLR, so please remember to be patient with them and they are only doing their job as instructed. That being said, if something is clearly not right, ask for a lead or manager.

Bottom line to me is if they can fix the issues, I don't care if they use my idea in the original post or not. All I ask is that the system be as equal as possible to those that don't need assistance. I think they are trying to get there and I do give them credit for that.

 

[aubriee]

Disney is providing equal access, which is all they are required to do. There is no doubt that many people don't like the new system, precisely because it is equal access. For way too long, too many people were accustomed to privileged access, and Disney is, and rightly so IMO, doing their best to take that away.

[/QUOTE]It's not so much in this thread, but I've seen a slew of complaints from people who are unhappy about having to wait before they can go into the FP line. There's also a lot of criticism saying their children don't have the cognitive ability to understand why they can't do something immediately like they have before, but this thread has really kind of turned into more of a discussion on added waits for the accessible/alternate entrance lines.[/QUOTE]

The DAS isn't nearly as broken as the GAC was.

And whether you want to acknowledge it or not, being able to ride attractions with little to no wait, as many times as they want to, again, with no wait IS better access than non-GAC guests were getting.

I didn't really have alot of feelings about this one way or the other, other than feeling like everyone should have to wait the approximate same times. If the handicapped got on just a little faster than the nonhandicapped, no big deal. However, shortly after the DAS was announced I read a post on here from an irate mother who said there was absolutely no way the DAS would work for her son. She went on to say that he had a horrible life 51 weeks out of the year and he dang sure should get better access at WDW because of it. She said they always used a GAC to go straight through the fast pass lines and that they looped rides over and over because that's what he liked to do. She went on to say that anyone that said the GAC was not an almost unlimited front of the line pass was lying because they had been using it that way for years. Quite a few people were shocked at her entitlement attitude and called her on it, asking if she honestly thought it was fair that their "unlimited fast pass" that allowed them to ride the same ride over and over and over while other kids were waiting to ride it once was fair. She said she thought it was, he deserved it, they had absolutely no guilt for doing it and just couldn't seem to understand why others would have a problem with it. She just kept using the excuse that her poor son had a rough life the 51 weeks out of the year they weren't at WDW, so he deserved the preferred treatment at WDW and if anyone waiting while they did their looping had a problem with it, they were the ones in the wrong for not having compassion for what her son went through the other 51 weeks of the year. The moderators round up closing that thread, but she immediately opened another one, ranting that she just couldn't understand why other people would have a problem waiting while her son basically got to do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted, even if it meant other children had to wait two hours to ride the same ride he was riding over and over with no waits. Her posts and entitlement attitude made me see what alot of the problems were WDW was wanting to fix. Having a disabled kid shouldn't make having other nondisabled kids wait longer and that is what was happening with the old GAC. People were abusing it (some scum bag nondisabled guests, but also some who were honestly disabled too). It had to be changed. The disabled shouldn't have to wait longer, but they also don't deserve much better access either. Even if WDW could require a doctor's note, there are too many doctors who would write one anytime someone requested one. Heck, I work at a hospital and have access to those doctor release forms. I would never do it, but could write one for myself if I wanted. I don't know what the answer is, but think WDW is doing their best to make things more equal for all their guests (and yes that means the disabled have to wait, just like the able guests). I had never thought about the fact that interpreters were not available for every show. That's wrong. The poster who reads sign language should not have to wait for only certain shows on a given day. She should have access to the same shows that the rest of us do. The handicapped should not have to do a bunch of extra walking to get and use a DAS either. That's not fair or equal, but at the same time jumping right on a ride and looping it repeatedly, while others are having to wait 60 minutes for that same ride wasn't right either, and in other threads that is what some people have said they must have. Everyone should have to wait approximately the same time and that means that yes sometimes the handicapped may get on faster but at other times they may have to wait a little longer.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

The more I think about it the more I think with a few amendments DAS current system is ok for folks like me that cannot wait in line but can reason this. As a hopeful DAS user I will be just grateful that Disney doesn't make me wait in line as I can't so would miss the ride. I suffer from exhaustion so can only do half days but that's my cross to carry. I am sure every family has some hurdle. The only thing I would change is I think the travel party should be named on the DAS to stop abuse ( so you name the people you are with ) and I don't know if this DAS return time works for Autism. I understand my physical limitations and can reason.

So I am happy with the system for me. I will get less rides than with GAC but least it puts me in the same boat as everyone else! I will plan more and am fortunate to stay on world and hopefully use FP + I appreciate not all are.

It must be so hard to devise a system that suits a lot of needs!

 

[Schmeck]

Here is the "spoon theory" explanation of how hidden disabilities like lupus or MS affect a person. It would be nice if any tweaks to the DAS takes the needs of "spoonies" into account. Back before the GAC was a DAS, it was a SAP. These diagnoses were on the automatic SAP list.

http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/wpress/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory/

The rigmarole of getting the DAS signed, going away, and coming back would over the course of the day take away a few more "spoons" than the proposed flipped wait.

At WDW, there is no need to 'go away', as the podium to get the DAS time is at the ride attraction. You can wait right there if you want to.

Also, for endurance issues (like using up your spoons) Disney suggests using a wheelchair or ECV.

 

[AndreaA]

Also, if it becomes known that you can go right in with a DAS, and "wait after," then you have a MUCH higher percentage of people wanting to abuse the system. People either lying or exaggerating their needs will get the card, and use it only on E-ticket rides, then wait the in the regular stand-by for shorter waits until they are "allowed" in again. The only way to stop it would be for it to be used in conjunction with the RFID system where each person in the party entering the ride "immediately" with the DAS was scanned, and each and every person going on every single ride had to scan their Magic Band (which does not exist in DL) going into every single other ride, so as to weed out the people who are still "waiting."

But isn't this exactly what the DAS does as well?
Under DAS:
1pm, go to Dumbo get a fifteen minute wait (for a 25min standby line)
1:15, ride Dumbo and walk to SpaceMtn (15min total)
1:30, get to SpaceMtn 80min return time (for a 90min wait)
1:30 - 2:50, I go ride Buzz, Carousel of Progress and People Mover.
2:50, I go ride SpaceMtn wait in a 15min FP line, get out at 3:10
And that is what Disney TELLS YOU to do. You are supposed to use the wait time anyway you please, including other attractions.

Under the proposed system,
1pm, ride and have a 25min blackout time (no time subtracted since they don't have to account for travel or FP line time) and walk to SpaceMtn (20min total because there was 5min FP line)
1:20 get to SpaceMtn. hang around for 5min
1:25 ride SpaceMtn with 15min FP line and receive a 90min blackout.
1:45 - 3:15 I go ride Buzz, and Carousel of Progress and PeopleMover
Now I'm free to go ride something else using my DAS card since my blackout ended while riding PeopleMover.

Unless my timing is off, I'm honestly not seeing an advantage for the proposed system. Obviously I'm sure that some sneaky people could figure out how to work the times just right, but they could do that just as easily with the current system.

 

[disney david]

I can tell you that though DL does not have FP+ yet (nor will for between 2 and 5 years depending on who you ask), they are trying to implement two new systems - the DAS and the wheelchair return times. This is not an issue in DCA, but in DL, there are somewhere between 9 and 13 attractions that have or can have a WC Return Ticket. They started with 9, and may add or subtract attractions based on wait times, time of year, etc. This may not sound like much, but they are the top 9 attractions, and 5 are all on one side of the park (with all you can do while waiting for your return time with a stand-by queue I am allowed in with my wc be Winnie the Pooh). It is really stretching the CMs thin, and not every attraction that has it is equipped to handle both WC RT and DAS RT. Some really do manage to make sure DAS gets priority when a returnee line forms, some simply do not have the ability - it was hard enough for some attractions to figure out how to make an accessible queue!

I still hold that the instant access with the wait afterwards will end up causing more abuse, for exactly the reasons I explained earlier in the thread. I even laid out a 5 hour trip in the park where I would get on 8 attractions, 4 of them E-ticket rides, with a total stand-by time of 4 hours and 40 minutes.... But I would not actually wait that long if I had instant access. All I need to do is pair a short wait before a long one, and I am good - I even had time for lunch and bathroom breaks in my schedule.

Also, if it becomes known that you can go right in with a DAS, and "wait after," then you have a MUCH higher percentage of people wanting to abuse the system. People either lying or exaggerating their needs will get the card, and use it only on E-ticket rides, then wait the in the regular stand-by for shorter waits until they are "allowed" in again. The only way to stop it would be for it to be used in conjunction with the RFID system where each person in the party entering the ride "immediately" with the DAS was scanned, and each and every person going on every single ride had to scan their Magic Band (which does not exist in DL) going into every single other ride, so as to weed out the people who are still "waiting."

While they need to alter the system, to allow for the fact that we wait once we arrive at the attraction, especially in a standard FP line, having people wait before going on is what is keeping a lot of the abusers away.

Of course some people still will lie and cheat - that will always happen. But anything that sends a person right into a FP line with the assumption they will be good people and not get in another line until their wait is up will be abused much more readily, in my opinion.

The reason it take them awhile to get fast pass plus is the ques in Disney land will all have to be redone. And made to be main streamed and add a que for fast pass. Plus it going to take them a very long time to train the front gate cms on how to actually so their job and then how to use RFID. I found them to be the rudest and worst cms in any Disney parks. So it could take 2-5 just to get a proper front gate cm like wdw has.

 

[Vidia2]

In fact, legally speaking, it may be tricky to remove accommodation once it is out there.

It would be interesting to know how this applies to the removal of the GAC as an accommodation. Of course it's been replaced with another system but one that does not give the same level of accommodation. This is being explored by people who know more about ADA laws than I do so I look forward to seeing what path they take.

There is some legal precedent for having accommodations reinstated because of the "taking away" issue.

 

[aaarcher86]

It would be interesting to know how this applies to the removal of the GAC as an accommodation. Of course it's been replaced with another system but one that does not give the same level of accommodation. This is being explored by people who know more about ADA laws than I do so I look forward to seeing what path they take. There is some legal precedent for having accommodations reinstated because of the "taking away" issue.

Immediate entrance into a que isn't an accommodation. Not having to physically wait in a lengthy line is. They didn't take away the accommodation, simply how it's implemented. There are many factors looked at when changes like this are made; cost, overall flow of the park, etc. The ADA not force a company to bring something back if it's to the detriment of running that company, but again, the accommodation itself is still in place.

I have no doubt in my mind Disney's legal team has gone through any and all changed with a fine tooth comb. They wouldn't put for a park wide change without being positive that they are within their legal rights to do so.

 

[Vidia2]

Immediate entrance into a que isn't an accommodation. Not having to physically wait in a lengthy line is. They didn't take away the accommodation, simply how it's implemented. There are many factors looked at when changes like this are made; cost, overall flow of the park, etc. The ADA not force a company to bring something back if it's to the detriment of running that company, but again, the accommodation itself is still in place. I have no doubt in my mind Disney's legal team has gone through any and all changed with a fine tooth comb. They wouldn't put for a park wide change without being positive that they are within their legal rights to do so.

Looking forward to what the experts find out. As I mentioned before there is legal precedent for this same type of issue. At any rate, NONE of these issues will be decided on this forum. Our opinions of how and why the ADA works is completely for info/entertainment value in this forum. Disney is not going to change (or not) anything based on what opinion someone voices on a discussion board. It's all just venting here.

There have been cases in which Disney has been forced to change their accommodations for certain disabilities. Was their legal team inept? No. They were just trying to do the least accommodation that they could get away with. They are a business and not infallible.

 

[aaarcher86]

Looking forward to what the experts find out. As I mentioned before there is legal precedent for this same type of issue. At any rate, NONE of these issues will be decided on this forum. Our opinions of how and why the ADA works is completely for info/entertainment value in this forum. Disney is not going to change (or not) anything based on what opinion someone voices on a discussion board. It's all just venting here.

Who are these 'experts?'

 

[Vidia2]

Who are these 'experts?'

Judges in a court of law. Disney doesn't care for your opinion or mine regarding our interpretation of the ADA.

 

[aaarcher86]

Judges in a court of law. Disney doesn't care for your opinion or mine regarding our interpretation of the ADA.

I highly doubt judges in a court of law are randomly looking into this whatsoever. I was assuming you meant someone was actually checking into this legally. Before a judge even sees it someone has to gather information to present a case.

 

[richflour]

The problem with proof being needed is two-fold. One is that the law was not written by or for Disney, it was written for everywhere. And I certainly do not want to have to carry papers with me proving I really do need my wheelchair.

The second problem is bigger, and I am NOT inviting debate on this topic, as it will entirely derail the thread. There problem is this:

What is "true need?" And who decides?

The government? The person with no medical knowledge working at Disney? Whatever doctor wrote the note?

That would require a "ranking" of disability, judging "who is worse" and "who is bad enough." Well what if I, as the decider of "true need" (and who knows, I may be hired in just such a capacity one day) decide that my need as a person with a rare genetic disorder, who requires extremely strong pain medication even to get up every day, who will always use a wheelchair, "outranks" your child. I certainly do not want some stranger getting to say "Her disease is worse than your child's disease."

That is the idea behind the one system - because no one wants to play the "who is worse" game. There is NO WAY to compare my daily experience to a child with profound autism. It is like comparing apples and moon rocks. They are not even from the same planet.

Does that mean the DAS is perfect, and works for everyone? No, of course not. I have used it many times on many days with many different crowd levels and I will be the first to admit, it had problems. I am not convinced it should be the system the OP is proposing, but it does need to be tweaked. Perhaps with more time reduced, 20 minutes instead of 10, or even 30 for some attractions. I believe that it should be 20 minutes removed for travel and wait time. And I know some lines are longer than the 20 minutes, but some are shorter, so that will help.

I also believe that any ride with a wait of less than 30 minutes, a person with a DAS should not need a return time, but be allowed to get in any stand-by alternate entry/FP line that is there. A person with a return time would get priority over any returnee line. Once a wait time hits 30 minutes, then a return time is needed.

The reason the system is so constricted now, with such short allowances being made is because it is easier to give than to take back. Can you imagine what would happen if they had originally allowed for 30 minutes removed from the stand-by time and then reduced that to 20???

It is easier for them to say "You can get a second return time, so long as the first return time has arrived" than to try that in the beginning and have to take it away.

Yes, the system WILL be tweaked. And Disney did a lot of research on this before putting it out there (though I think roll-out was rushed due to the news coverage). But it is MUCH easier to give ground than to need to scale back what was being given out.

In fact, legally speaking, it may be tricky to remove accommodation once it is out there.

You have to carry proof to park in a handicap parking space?

 

[Schmeck]

It would be interesting to know how this applies to the removal of the GAC as an accommodation. Of course it's been replaced with another system but one that does not give the same level of accommodation. This is being explored by people who know more about ADA laws than I do so I look forward to seeing what path they take.

There is some legal precedent for having accommodations reinstated because of the "taking away" issue.

The GAC was not an accommodation. It was a tool used by CMs at the attractions so that a guest would not have to explain an issue over and over again, and the CM would not have to make a judgement call. There were accommodations listed on the GAC, but the GAC itself has no legal standing as an accommodation. It was a communication tool. Disney still makes accommodations, just not by way of the GAC.

Please show me the link to the legal precedent? If anything, the 'unlimited FP'-like access was in violation of the ADA, because it offered a group, based on a disability, to benefit from a privilege not afforded to the general public. That's illegal, according to the ADA.

 

[aaarcher86]

You have to carry proof to park in a handicap parking space?

You have to have a handicap placard but it doesn't go into what the disability itself is.

 

[richflour]

You have to have a handicap placard but it doesn't go into what the disability itself is.

To get the card you have to take to the dmv a letter from your physisian on what your disabilty is.

 

[richflour]

This discussion is pointless . The people with disabilties that feel a sense of entiltement are only looking for support to "feel good " about using their disabilty to gain an unfair advantage!
The GAS is here to stay .
Sorry to disappoint.