Idea to improve DAS

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At certain attractions, guests who need assistance (particularly if they can't do stairs) indeed have to wait behind the people who need an accessible vehicle. Small World at DLR is one example, California Screamin' is another example of this.

I'm just going to reply to this post instead of going back to your original post that states your proposed solution to the broken DAS.

Just want to say that it sounds like a good idea (your plan) but what's your plan to get this info to Disney and is the point of this thread to get ideas from others?

Personally, I plan to write my own letters after I've had a chance to use the broken DAS but for my family the new FP+ plan might work as a fix since we'll plan to use one for the first ride of the day, after we get our return time, and then alternate. That's six rides that will get done in the same amount of time that we've always done them. Then we'll do more rides that aren't headliners after that. Not everyone will be able to do this so there should be a better system.

Point being that there are two sides on this thread and neither side is going to convince the other side and we'll all be contacting Disney with our own issues.

Are you gathering info for a group letter? Do you plan on starting a petition? Is this just another place for the people who think that the ADA is to protect non-disabled from disabled people having something that they don't?

What's the plan?

Other than tweaking the system, do you think that Disney is going to make any major changes to the system?

These people who are complaining about people with disabilities will always complain about something, especially when they figure out that FP and FP+ numbers are being reduced in number while they're focusing their attention elsewhere. It's not as if Disney is going to detrimentally change the lines for the disabled and not stick it to the non-disabled as well. It's equality after all.
 
I have no reason to believe that the new system will result in longer waits for the non-disabled, I believe quite the contrary.

I believe that everyone (with rare exceptions) should have to wait, period.

I believe you misunderstood my point. I believe that you would hypothetically rather have everything worse for everyone as long as it's equal than have things hypothetically improve for everyone with the side effect that things are slightly unequal, favoring the disabled. Let's face it; nothing is ever going to be equal. It's either going to favor the majority or the minority. Clearly you prefer that favor to go towards the majority, while at the same time professing that it's "equal".

And once again, in the proposed system, the disabled people ARE WAITING. They're just waiting after the ride instead of before it. They are waiting before their next ride. They are not just merrily skipping from one FP queue to the next. If line time equalty is your goal - which it should be - then you should have no problem with the proposed system, especially not if it also included adding ride time and even an "average travel time" to the blackout time. Did you even read my post about how the proposed system will likely cut down on people riding "extra" rides during their wait, which is currently possible with the DAS system? So technically the proposed system would have disabled people riding fewer rides than the DAS system. But really, I feel like your issue isn't one of equality, it's one of stubbornness. You don't just want people to have to wait their turn. You want them to be waiting right along side you - in spirit if not in the flesh - and that just strikes me as petty. So they're waiting 50min to ride Buzz Lightyear instead of 50 minutes to ride Space Mountain. Is that really such a big deal to you? You'll still both be entering the Buzz line at about the same time.
 
After 24 pages of debate, I am actually seeing a how the OPs idea could actually work for a more equal experience than currently exists.
Though I'm not saying it's a perfect solution, as the door is open somewhere in there for abusers. But allow me to give a scenario.

OP and I arrive at Space Mtn simultaneously, I enter standby line 45 min posted wait, with a 5 min total ride time. OP shows DAS, is stamped for a blackout period of 50 min (my wait + ride duration). OP may ride within the next few. minutes, or may hit a log jam in line and wait 30 min to ride; let's assume the log jam affects the FP line but not the standby line, although OP will exit SM before me, we will both be free to ride again at about the same time. So,essentially, the OP and I had the same wait, but the attraction determined where and how OP would wait.
To counter my own argument of walk time between attractions, and to make abuse less appealing to abusers, the CMs can add 10 minutes to the blackout time- as opposed to deducting it as is the current procedure.
The more I chew on it, the more the idea has merit in my mind....I'm sure there are ways to control DAS overload from the "instant access" from slowing down the standby queue. Maybe CMs at the loading platforms could use a different ratio of FP to standby access, to allow the standby line to move a bit quicker.
OP thanks for giving me a different perspective....though it's far from the perfect solution, I do finally see the merit of your suggestion.
 
@cmwade77---I think this got lost back in the thread. I imagine that when Disney decided they needed to change their GAC system they must have studied the various systems in use at other parks. And for whatever reason, they did not go with yours which is similar to Universal Studios Hollywood. I started to ask your thoughts as to why, but who can know, I guess. Maybe a better question is do you think they will be receptive to a system they must have evaluated and not implemented?
 
IMO, knowing that mobility challenged guests need to wait for a certain few vehicles I wouldn't really care if they wait less than I do. If it works out that way than its of no doing of their own. I imagine it'd all end balancing out. I think what's attractive to a gamer in this instance is pretty easy to decipher... Little wait. Could someone do the same hiring of a wheelchair bound individual? Sure. But I'm willing to bet 9/10 the wait would be longer if anything else. And no, I haven't mentioned what effects the new DAS system and/or alternate entrances will have on my family because I'm a personal believer of keeping emotions out of discussions like these. I try not to make this type of stuff too personal. I also think that no matter if it effects someone directly or not that we are all entitled to an opinion :)
I'm seeing plenty of people able to discuss the effects of these changes without becoming emotional or too personal. And I bet a lot of people, like you, choose to engage in the discussion without discussing how it impacts them or their family individually. Still others seem to be posting who are not disabled or connected to someone who is. With so many concerned folks there are a lot of minds exploring whether cmwade77's system may improve upon the DAS system and why it may or may not do so. I see that as a positive.[/QUOTE]

Oh, absolutely. I'm glad it's been very clean and mature for the most part.
 
@cmwade77---I think this got lost back in the thread. I imagine that when Disney decided they needed to change their GAC system they must have studied the various systems in use at other parks. And for whatever reason, they did not go with yours which is similar to Universal Studios Hollywood. I started to ask your thoughts as to why, but who can know, I guess. Maybe a better question is do you think they will be receptive to a system they must have evaluated and not implemented?

I kind of wonder he same thing. I imagine Disney did their homework on this. I wonder if they based it off of WDW and how the theme parks in Florida operate over California. And perhaps,they wanted to keep the same system at both places to lessen confusion.
 


I kind of wonder he same thing. I imagine Disney did their homework on this. I wonder if they based it off of WDW and how the theme parks in Florida operate over California. And perhaps,they wanted to keep the same system at both places to lessen confusion.

I know pre-release of the new system there was a lot of discussion about them trying to keep both parks the same.
On the boards we know how different they are, but a lot of people think they are essentially the same park. I suspect they want to cut down on angry people when they cross coasts and have to adapt on arrival.
 
@cmwade77---I think this got lost back in the thread. I imagine that when Disney decided they needed to change their GAC system they must have studied the various systems in use at other parks. And for whatever reason, they did not go with yours which is similar to Universal Studios Hollywood. I started to ask your thoughts as to why, but who can know, I guess. Maybe a better question is do you think they will be receptive to a system they must have evaluated and not implemented?

I think a lot will depend on the feedback they are getting from guests, as well as how many "extras" they are currently giving to people with more serious needs. It seems as though special passes are currently being given out to people who do not understand the concept of waiting and likely never will. It also seems like with the proposed system, that would not be so necessary. Dawdling from one ride to the next in order to eat up the wait time is a heck of a lot easier than having to either split up and send a DAS runner over to a completely different area or, worse yet, risk getting closer to the ride which could trigger that "need to ride" mental state. Surely being able to keep more people sticking to the "standard plan" would be much easier than having to decide who really needs the extra passes and having people argue because they've seen x number of people using those special passes and they want one too.
 
Try doing that with someone who is cognitively disabled (and no, I don't just mean autistic) and see how well it works to hang around outside the ride they are insisting on going on.

And let's not bother going down the "they should learn how to wait" road. Some people will never "learn to wait". Some people will never live outside their parents' home or a qualified institution/home. So saying they need to learn to make it in the real world is pointless.



How is it not a disadvantage to have to go to a ride and then walk away and then go back later and still have to wait in a line? What attraction is there to do at BTMRR that doesn't require an exhausting walk up and down a rather steep hill?

It just seems to me that the argument with the solution proposed in this thread is that the disabled people don't have to wait at the same time as average guest. They DO have to wait, just at a different time, and apparently some people think that is somehow giving them something "extra". With the current DAS they would be able to visit other attractions/eat/bathroom, so that's not an advantage of the proposed system, it's just that they can ride when the urge/need strikes and then do their waiting by perhaps dawdling on the way to their next ride or otherwise distracting their loved one before they even get near the next ride. To me it sounds like some perverse envy. You don't get "instant gratification" so neither should anyone else, even if their mental state is such that they could be in physical or mental distress otherwise. I just don't get it.

Neither do I. Very well said.

But really, I feel like your issue isn't one of equality, it's one of stubbornness. You don't just want people to have to wait their turn. You want them to be waiting right along side you - in spirit if not in the flesh - and that just strikes me as petty.

Again, very well said. In reading through all the posts, yours really resonated with me, and I think you've struck on the problem in creating a DAS/GAC/whatever you want to call it kind of system. Some people aren't going to be happy unless everyone is doing exactly the same thing, regardless of abilities or how it is set up. If it's different than the general population, some people are going to complain.

OP, I really like your proposed change to the DAS system. We tried out Disney's version with our son the third day it was operational at Disneyland for the long four-day weekend. One of the biggest issues I had, even with *lots* of planning (we know DL and DCA very well), was that there was a ton of extra walking. I was fortunate to have a "runner" for the kiosks, but everyone noticed it. I also felt that some adjustment should be given for the extremely long fast pass lines we waited in AFTER waiting our standby time on the DAS. It was a very busy weekend, and many were over 25 minutes. DS can't handle those, and we were forced to leave a couple and wait to the side while the rest of the party went through the line. We also ran into a couple of problems with him not wanting to do the ride when the time finally came. OPs solution would help with this.
 
I like how this thread has generally stayed positive, but I want to add something.
I think it is short sighted that as soon as somebody says "this has abuse potential" some are just tossing us aside as complaining about the disabled, stubborn, self-centered or inconsiderate. The only negative comments I have seen have been the defensive ones about people who don't agree with the proposed system.

We can disagree about something without either of us being heartless. Having a different view does not equate to the other person having no clue what they are talking about.

I think the abuse potential as well as the reasons that the DAS does not cover all of every single person's needs have both been pointed out and it behooves us to make an attempt to sympathize with varying views, regardless of whether they benefit us personally. It seems that both sides of this argument owe it to ourselves to at least spend a moment in all of this imagining somebody else's shoes before taking subtle jabs at anyone.
 
It seems that both sides of this argument owe it to ourselves to at least spend a moment in all of this imagining somebody else's shoes before taking subtle jabs at anyone.
Here is the "spoon theory" explanation of how hidden disabilities like lupus or MS affect a person. It would be nice if any tweaks to the DAS takes the needs of "spoonies" into account. Back before the GAC was a DAS, it was a SAP. These diagnoses were on the automatic SAP list.

http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/wpress/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory/

The rigmarole of getting the DAS signed, going away, and coming back would over the course of the day take away a few more "spoons" than the proposed flipped wait.
 
I kind of wonder he same thing. I imagine Disney did their homework on this. I wonder if they based it off of WDW and how the theme parks in Florida operate over California. And perhaps,they wanted to keep the same system at both places to lessen confusion.

I agree that as a corporation it would make sense to have the system be the same throughout. Not sure if the changes implemented were at Disney parks worldwide.
 
I believe you misunderstood my point. I believe that you would hypothetically rather have everything worse for everyone as long as it's equal than have things hypothetically improve for everyone with the side effect that things are slightly unequal, favoring the disabled. Let's face it; nothing is ever going to be equal. It's either going to favor the majority or the minority. Clearly you prefer that favor to go towards the majority, while at the same time professing that it's "equal".

And once again, in the proposed system, the disabled people ARE WAITING. They're just waiting after the ride instead of before it. They are waiting before their next ride. They are not just merrily skipping from one FP queue to the next. If line time equalty is your goal - which it should be - then you should have no problem with the proposed system, especially not if it also included adding ride time and even an "average travel time" to the blackout time. Did you even read my post about how the proposed system will likely cut down on people riding "extra" rides during their wait, which is currently possible with the DAS system? So technically the proposed system would have disabled people riding fewer rides than the DAS system. But really, I feel like your issue isn't one of equality, it's one of stubbornness. You don't just want people to have to wait their turn. You want them to be waiting right along side you - in spirit if not in the flesh - and that just strikes me as petty. So they're waiting 50min to ride Buzz Lightyear instead of 50 minutes to ride Space Mountain. Is that really such a big deal to you? You'll still both be entering the Buzz line at about the same time.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that I'm dead set against the proposal in the OP. I would prefer that Disney stay with the DAS as designed, with tweaks made for people that have to wait for accessible rides and are essentially waiting longer, sometimes much longer, than anyone else. The proposal to wait after and not before does open up increased possibilities of abuse, but it's still head and shoulders above the GAC.

So long as Disney doesn't go back to a GAC style system, and keeps a system that enforces wait times for ALL guests, I'll be happy with it.
 
I know pre-release of the new system there was a lot of discussion about them trying to keep both parks the same.
On the boards we know how different they are, but a lot of people think they are essentially the same park. I suspect they want to cut down on angry people when they cross coasts and have to adapt on arrival.

I agree. Plenty of people don't research prior to going to a Disney park. (Hard for us DISboard planners to wrap our heads around!) If I knew the system to be one way and then went to another Disney park and it was significantly different that might be hard.
 
Sunnywho said:
Here is the "spoon theory" explanation of how hidden disabilities like lupus or MS affect a person. It would be nice if any tweaks to the DAS takes the needs of "spoonies" into account. Back before the GAC was a DAS, it was a SAP. These diagnoses were on the automatic SAP list.

http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/wpress/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory/

The rigmarole of getting the DAS signed, going away, and coming back would over the course of the day take away a few more "spoons" than the proposed flipped wait.
That's cute, thanks for sharing. I agree that going away cant work for all. My concern is with those who would take the immediate access because they can rather than because they need it.
 
I think a lot will depend on the feedback they are getting from guests, as well as how many "extras" they are currently giving to people with more serious needs. It seems as though special passes are currently being given out to people who do not understand the concept of waiting and likely never will. It also seems like with the proposed system, that would not be so necessary. Dawdling from one ride to the next in order to eat up the wait time is a heck of a lot easier than having to either split up and send a DAS runner over to a completely different area or, worse yet, risk getting closer to the ride which could trigger that "need to ride" mental state. Surely being able to keep more people sticking to the "standard plan" would be much easier than having to decide who really needs the extra passes and having people argue because they've seen x number of people using those special passes and they want one too.

I so hope they will give credence to guest feedback and make changes as needed. My experience is that Disney does a ton of customer surveys. I have easily done 10 in the last 5 years. That leads me to believe they do care to provide the best they can.

I do have a concern that establishing two new systems simultaneously at WDW---the DAS implementation and the current testing of the FP+ system---may have Disney spread too thin. I worry that there are less people paying attention to problems, glitches, etc. Does this concern you?
 
I do have a concern that establishing two new systems simultaneously at WDW---the DAS implementation and the current testing of the FP+ system---may have Disney spread too thin. I worry that there are less people paying attention to problems, glitches, etc. Does this concern you?

It absolutely concerns me. For one thing, people - including Disney CMs keep encouraging those with DAS to take full advantage of FP and FP+ as if that will solve any extra issues. Except many people who need a DAS cannot plan far enough in advance to use FP+, and regular FP is going away. Add into that, the fact that people are reporting extreme difficulty getting same day FP+ and now the disabled guests are at a distinct disadvantage. Now one would hope that same day FP+ would be easier to get once the legacy system is gone, but we really have no idea. For all we know, 80% of FPs will be dedicated to pre-booking, with only 20% held for same day access. Can you imagine how fast they would go??
 
I like how this thread has generally stayed positive, but I want to add something.
I think it is short sighted that as soon as somebody says "this has abuse potential" some are just tossing us aside as complaining about the disabled, stubborn, self-centered or inconsiderate. The only negative comments I have seen have been the defensive ones about people who don't agree with the proposed system.

We can disagree about something without either of us being heartless. Having a different view does not equate to the other person having no clue what they are talking about.

I think the abuse potential as well as the reasons that the DAS does not cover all of every single person's needs have both been pointed out and it behooves us to make an attempt to sympathize with varying views, regardless of whether they benefit us personally. It seems that both sides of this argument owe it to ourselves to at least spend a moment in all of this imagining somebody else's shoes before taking subtle jabs at anyone.
I think this may be good point to end this thread - while it is still mostly positive.
I will leave it open for a while, but it probably will close soon.

There is very little new occurring over 25 pages. There are people who agree with the OP and people who don't.
Many of the people who agree with the OP think it would cut down on walking and like the idea of being able to go to an attraction and ride right away.

Many of the people who don't agree are not saying they want to keep people with disabilities exactly equal, but see a possible big issue with abuse if the wait is after rather than before - people who are wanting to 'scam the system' could go on an attraction with a short wait time so they have a short 'black out period' before going on an attraction with a long standby line.
I think this is a real possibility; apparently some dont.

One of the issues that made Disney look at changing the GAC in the first place was the huge number if guests with GACS showing up at Radiator Springs Racers at DL and expecting to ride right away. As a result of that situation, Disney started giving out Return Time tickets at that attraction.
I don't see that the OP's suggestion does anything to address that and (I think) would make matters worse because the propose change would tell people that they are expected to come and ride right away, then wait after.
So, what happens when the ride gets overloaded and not everyone can get in with no wait?

This says nothing about whether or how disabled the people are, just that there are too many to be all taken care of at the same time.

The OP hasn't answered this and I don't really think 25 more pages is going yo change anyone's mind from one side to the other.
 
It absolutely concerns me. For one thing, people - including Disney CMs keep encouraging those with DAS to take full advantage of FP and FP+ as if that will solve any extra issues. Except many people who need a DAS cannot plan far enough in advance to use FP+, and regular FP is going away. Add into that, the fact that people are reporting extreme difficulty getting same day FP+ and now the disabled guests are at a distinct disadvantage. Now one would hope that same day FP+ would be easier to get once the legacy system is gone, but we really have no idea. For all we know, 80% of FPs will be dedicated to pre-booking, with only 20% held for same day access. Can you imagine how fast they would go??

Yes, those are all things I have thought about, too. I wish that we could have adapted to one change and then the other instead of both at the same time. In the case of our family, we use more than 3 FP's a day as there were always plenty to be had early in the day and park hop more days than not. The mental gymnastics involved in figuring out how to make a vacation work taking DD's needs/differences into account is exhausting and now it's harder. I stopped making ADR's because that just added too much into the mix. The times when I have been able to take a Disney vacation just me & DH or alone with one of my non-disabled children have been so different. I get a glimpse at how relaxing it is for the average Disney vacationer. And I am grateful for the chance to experience that from time-to-time.
 
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