I need help making a Kindergarten decision

[princessmom29]

Of course they test the kids coming in to K...but they don't test the ones that aren't coming in yet. So I don't really know what that ahs to do with red shirting...but ok.

Parents are not always completely objective when deciding if their child is ready or not. They should at least consider the testing results as a part of making that decision as a way to interject some objectivity in what can be a very emotional decision. The emotional gut reaction is keep little Johnny home and let him be a baby one more year, or keep little Jhonny home and give him a better chance at being a high school fottbal star. Mabye if they saw that the test says that little Johnny might just really be ready to start school they would be less likley to make a decison based on emotion. So the idea is to send them to be tested on the year they should enter K and just see what the test says before making a decision. Admittedly, one test is not an absolute measure, but it could help inject some much needed objectivity in some situations.

 

[princessmom29]

I saw that too, man some people just have no class

Where?? I must have missed it. I didn't see anyone say that.

 

[sdoll]

OP here again with an update...

I had no idea what kind of debate I was getting started. I just wanted others people opinions. I decided that the only opinion that really mattered was what our Preschool recommened. After meeting with the director today we have decided to keep him at the preschool for 1 more year. It really boiled down to the fact that he was not ready. We all shared the same concern that it could effect his confidence and that is not worth the risk. I know my little boy and I do not feel that he is ready for Kindergarten I thought maybe 2 years would benifit him but I now believe it might / but it also might not. I am not willing to take that risk esp when we are in a preschool that I trust and believe in the readiness they are giving him for kindergarten.

And for all those that keep talking about a 7 year old in kindergarten have no fear that will never be my son. He will start kindergarten in fall of 2011 17 days after he turns 6. And to the parents of winter babies. You are so lucky you don't have to make this choice.

 

[jellybeans0607]

Parents are not always completely objective when deciding if their child is ready or not. They should at least consider the testing results as a part of making that decision as a way to interject some objectivity in what can be a very emotional decision. The emotional gut reaction is keep little Johnny home and let him be a baby one more year, or keep little Jhonny home and give him a better chance at being a high school fottbal star. Mabye if they saw that the test says that little Johnny might just really be ready to start school they would be less likley to make a decison based on emotion. So the idea is to send them to be tested on the year they should enter K and just see what the test says before making a decision. Admittedly, one test is not an absolute measure, but it could help inject some much needed objectivity in some situations.

speak for yourself. but don't assume others feel this way. Like I said I have other older kids. I am perfectly capable of deciding when my child is ready to start K. If you aren't then by all means have your child tested, but don't be fooled into thinking that the majority of parents don't know their kids that well.

 

[jellybeans0607]

OP here again with an update...

I had no idea what kind of debate I was getting started. I just wanted others people opinions. I decided that the only opinion that really mattered was what our Preschool recommened. After meeting with the director today we have decided to keep him at the preschool for 1 more year. It really boiled down to the fact that he was not ready. We all shared the same concern that it could effect his confidence and that is not worth the risk. I know my little boy and I do not feel that he is ready for Kindergarten I thought maybe 2 years would benifit him but I now believe it might / but it also might not. I am not willing to take that risk esp when we are in a preschool that I trust and believe in the readiness they are giving him for kindergarten.

And for all those that keep talking about a 7 year old in kindergarten have no fear that will never be my son. He will start kindergarten in fall of 2011 17 days after he turns 6. And to the parents of winter babies. You are so lucky you don't have to make this choice.

Good for you! You're right the only opinion that matters is that of the people who know and care about the childs best interest.

 

[imthatgirl]

speak for yourself. but don't assume others feel this way. Like I said I have other older kids. I am perfectly capable of deciding when my child is ready to start K. If you aren't then by all means have your child tested, but don't be fooled into thinking that the majority of parents don't know their kids that well.

Same here. I don;t know why a parent would even think they need to have a 4yo tested. these are basic skills our children are learning in K. A parent should be more aware of their child.

 

[princessmom29]

speak for yourself. but don't assume others feel this way. Like I said I have other older kids. I am perfectly capable of deciding when my child is ready to start K. If you aren't then by all means have your child tested, but don't be fooled into thinking that the majority of parents don't know their kids that well.

Eveything posted does not apply dorectly to you. There are parents ot there that ARE NOT capable of seperating their emotions form this issue. I did'nt see where I EVER mentioned your name or said you were one of the???

 

[tartemis]

I saw that too, man some people just have no class

Oh, for the love of god. And some people have no reading comprehension skills.

I, in fact, said the exact opposite of what I am being accused of, but if you are incapable of seeing that, there is no hope.

 

[dizneechic]

OP here again with an update...

I had no idea what kind of debate I was getting started. I just wanted others people opinions. I decided that the only opinion that really mattered was what our Preschool recommened. After meeting with the director today we have decided to keep him at the preschool for 1 more year. It really boiled down to the fact that he was not ready. We all shared the same concern that it could effect his confidence and that is not worth the risk. I know my little boy and I do not feel that he is ready for Kindergarten I thought maybe 2 years would benifit him but I now believe it might / but it also might not. I am not willing to take that risk esp when we are in a preschool that I trust and believe in the readiness they are giving him for kindergarten.

Great job mom! Bringing everyone together to talk about your child is exactly what anyone who has even the slightest concern should do! Best of luck to your son!

 

[deerhart]

It put him in an awkward legal position though. Another thing to consider, especially for moms of boys. A 19 year old senior with a 17 year old senior or 16 year old junior girlfriend is legally at risk especially in the case of the 16 year old. That is a legal adult with a child 3 years younger. That is the definition of statutory in almost every state. That girl's parents could make his life very difficult, even if nothing is going on. I have seen it happen.

Check your state laws on this. here in Missouri if the older person is under the age of 21 and the younger person is over 15 or 16 it is no longer statutory rape (its considered consensual) due to the VERY issue your talking about 18 and 19 year old seniors with 15-17 year old school classmates (freshman through seniors) or even closer the 19 year old college freshman with the 16 yo junior or 17 yo senior.

 

[deerhart]

I hate to correct your math but 2 kids out of 15 being older then the rest of the class is no where near 50% of the class. As you've said the rest of the class has already turned 6, so the rest are all the same age group.
I do find it quite interesting that you know all the birthdays of the kids in your daughters class. You must spend a lot of time asking questions.

I have never heard that as a reason to red shirt, and I've been doing this for 14 years.In those 14years I have yet to have a student come through my doors with complete knowledge of the years material. Even those that could read already got something out of their time with me. I never had to struggle to keep them engaged. But, on the other hand the kids that are a year younger then the rest do have a problem staying engaged because they aren't ready.

k-2 our school provides us a list of every kid in the class and their b-day from the teacher each year. Parents have to opt out of it. Also, my son can come home and tell me exactly how old every member of his class is on that day as well.

Also wanted to mention that my elementary and junior high school tracked us into high, regular, low classes for reading and math from kindy to 6th grade. High math by 6th grade was ready for algebra, low math was adding and subtracting fractions. We all got thrown back together in 7th and 8th grade, hence why I spent 7th and 8th grade redoing the work we did in high level reading and math from 4th, 5th, and 6th grade *snooze*

 

[MSSANDRA]

OP here again with an update...

I had no idea what kind of debate I was getting started. I just wanted others people opinions. I decided that the only opinion that really mattered was what our Preschool recommened. After meeting with the director today we have decided to keep him at the preschool for 1 more year. It really boiled down to the fact that he was not ready. We all shared the same concern that it could effect his confidence and that is not worth the risk. I know my little boy and I do not feel that he is ready for Kindergarten I thought maybe 2 years would benifit him but I now believe it might / but it also might not. I am not willing to take that risk esp when we are in a preschool that I trust and believe in the readiness they are giving him for kindergarten.

And for all those that keep talking about a 7 year old in kindergarten have no fear that will never be my son. He will start kindergarten in fall of 2011 17 days after he turns 6. And to the parents of winter babies. You are so lucky you don't have to make this choice.

sounds like you made an informed choice that will be right for your child! Good for you!

And please remember that almost always these children ARE huge a success in life!! My child that was "gifted" that extra year is 17. He will be 18 in June. He has one more year of high school. Almost 1/2 his friends were also given that extra year to grow up. All his friends ( all rising seniors) will be 18 by December. More mature kids tend to attract more mature kids. All these kids (boys and girls) are honor roll, AP class kids. All are going to college. His best friend is talking to Harvard this week!! They are all good kids and have never been in any trouble. They are happy and well adjusted. They have parents that have cared about and been involved in their education since the start of kindergarten.MANY of their moms are teachers.

Lots of sources will give you lots of differnt stats on long term sucess of "red-flaged" kids but our story has been so positive.

Here's to a great year for your little one!!!

 

[deerhart]

Why would you assume parents don't know their kids well enough to make this decision? Why would you assume parents haven't already tried to challenge their kids? School certainly isn't my kids only learning environment. So why would a parent who is in tuned with their child need to send them to school to find out if they are ready?
Obviously you wouldn't have kept your son out, because he was ready. You can't possibly be naive enough to think that all kids are in that same position at the same age.

Why? Because some kids just don't respond to a parent but respond brilliantly in a classroom.

My youngest son fought us tooth and nail at teaching him ANY kindy skills (reading, numbers, heck even reciting the alphabet). Refused to do ANY of it (though we believed he could do it) But put him in a classroom with a teacher and peers to influence him and he takes off

 

[deerhart]

I didn't read through the entire thread so I don't know if anyone else posted this. There is actually a term for it now. It's called red shirting ( from college football practice of red shirting freshman players) There is more to school than just chronological age and mental readiness. Depending on the needs of your child- it may be in his best interests to repeat a year now. School doesn't get any easier as your child gets older and that year spent now may help him later socially and academically. The age cutoff is so early that kids, like my daughter, could end up being younger than most of her classroom peers.He will still graduate "on time" at 18.

research is VERY clear that having a child repeat a year severely increases the likelihood of dropping out, not going to college etc..

The research is also equally clear that if the child did not learn the stuff the first time around, getting taught it AGAIN, without services, is not going to solve the problem. Instead, it is far better to have services put in place to address the reason WHY the child isn't "getting" it, then look at whether or not curriculum needs to be repeated or if the child can move on and use the services and interventions and still be okay.

 

[brergnat]

I'm asking this question simply out of curiosity:

When did it become "the thing" to hold kids back from going to K until they are six years old? I come across SO many parents here doing this, and it baffles me.

My son is in K this year. He also has Autism. To say he was "not ready" (socially) for K at the beginning of the year is an understatement. He is in a special ed. class, but this year has been AMAZING for him, as far as social confidence and personal growth are concerned. He had been in Preschool for the two years prior, and the amount of improvement we have witnessed this past school year so far has been incredible. My son is a July birthday too, and he's the youngest in his class, but what does that matter? I actually think the influence of the older kids has been instrumental in helping him come out of his shell socially and start acting like an older child, instead of a preschooler (even his interests have changed dramatically, towards more age appropriate things).

Unless your child is seriously behind, academically, I see no reason to postpone their introduction to K. Looking so far in advance to high school and being "the youngest" is ridiculous, to me. Sounds like a bunch of parents who want their kid to be the "biggest and best" in the class.

Why not try having some confidence in your own child? They can handle a lot more than you think they can, usually.

 

[brymolmom]

sounds like you made an informed choice that will be right for your child! Good for you!

And please remember that almost always these children ARE huge a success in life!! My child that was "gifted" that extra year is 17. He will be 18 in June. He has one more year of high school. Almost 1/2 his friends were also given that extra year to grow up. All his friends ( all rising seniors) will be 18 by December. More mature kids tend to attract more mature kids. All these kids (boys and girls) are honor roll, AP class kids. All are going to college. His best friend is talking to Harvard this week!! They are all good kids and have never been in any trouble. They are happy and well adjusted. They have parents that have cared about and been involved in their education since the start of kindergarten.MANY of their moms are teachers.

Lots of sources will give you lots of differnt stats on long term sucess of "red-flaged" kids but our story has been so positive.

Here's to a great year for your little one!!!

It is great that your child and his friends are doing so well.

It is entirely possible, however, that this really has nothing to do with redshirting and instead is due to the parents who have cared and been involved in their education since the start of kindergarten. Parental involvement has been proven to be key in educational success. It is nearly impossible to determine exactly what long-term effect age has with this type of thing - as redshirted kids are way more likely to have good home situations, stay at home parents, and solid preschool programs than non-redshirted. And each and every one of those facts might cause the success as well.

 

[palavra]

Most kids are a lot more "ready" than the parents think. In my experience it is usually more about the parent not being ready than the child. The parent decides that the child needs another year and finds a justification for it. Given the chance to go to school on time, it is very rare that a child is actually held back. The vast majority of the kids that parents were convinced were "not ready" do just fine. In our public school system 90-95% of children start K on time and the retention rate is less than 3%. It is even less for those same children in first grade. About half the children in public schools here don't come from homes where anyone really cares wether they are ready or not, and makes no effort to see that they are. They have had no preschool, and have not been taught much if anything at home. If there were truly as many "not ready" children out there as parents seem to think, the retention rate for these kids would be a lot higher. The retention rate is even less in private schools for children who start at the correct chronological age. Why not give our chidlren the opportunity to succeed, rather than holding them back until we are ready? Yes it is hard and scary as a parent to let go, but that is what we have to do as responsible parent.

There has to be a line drawn somewhere, or what you end up with is 7 year olds in K whose parents chose to hold them back to "give them the best possible start". What they really wanted was a child who was stronger, faster, and smarter than everyone else, or they didn't want their "baby" to grow up. The parents of the kids in DD's class CHOSE to hold thier kids back so that they would be 7 in K. There are 2 of them from 2 different families, but the story is the same. They were not held back because they were not capable of doing the work. It has backfired on them as far as the social aspect goes because they are so much older and don't relate well to the kids in K along with the fact that they are really bored and have become a discipline problem because of it. Thes kids SHOULD be in first grade.

My point is that an age cutoff has been set and I feel it should be respected unless there truly is a valid developmental reason not to, not just some vague "my kid isn't ready" excuse to get around the rule, but a diagnosed condition that makes waiting a better option. You may say "what is a few months". The next Mom will say "if she gets to wait 3 months I'll wait 6. My kid will have the advantage then." The next mom comes along and decides to wait a year so that her kid is top dog. It has to stop somewhere. I say everyone should respect the age cutoffs until there is evidence that a child is not functioning well on that grade level, or that they have a disability that prevents them from doing so. It would eliminate many of these issuse of "old kindergarteners" being 6 and 7 and "young kindergarteners" being 4 and 5. Holding a child back for no more reason than you want to ultimately creates a set of classroom problems that takes away from the education of every child in the room, including the one who was held back.

I'm sorry, but, as a teacher, I really have to disagree with you. There are many children who aren't ready for school just because they hit a certain age that a state deems is "school age." My DD's birthday is August 30th-2 days before the cutoff date of September 1st. She did start K-4 "on time", and it was a disaster. Not only was she too immature, she wasn't physically ready. So we pulled her from the class and put her back in daycare. The extra year of maturity made all the difference. Yes, my daughter has been 7 for most of first grade, but she is excelling-reads on a 4th grade level and has matured so much this year.

I teach middle school, and I can tell you that the younger kids are almost always at a disadvantage socially and academically in middle school.

I really don't understand your last statement at all. How does an older child in the classroom "take away from the education of every child in the room"? Believe me, the kids do know who is the oldest and youngest in the room, but, for the most part, they don't really care The age of teh students does not usually impact the other students unless it is a very young child in kindergarten or first grade who is noticeably less mature than his or her peers,or has faltering fine motor skills that does make it difficult for him or her to succeed.

 

[palavra]

It wasn't a problem because it wasn't the epidemic that it is becoming in other areas. Honestly, you can tell me that if a LARGE bunch of the kids should be in first grade and a handful of should be in K kids at the lower end are in the same class - you don't think it will affect their esteem? confidence? drive to learn? social skills? I struggle with that but am no expert - just seems logical that if a 4 year old is constantly compared to MANY 6 year olds there will be repercussions (and even tho the school doesn't "compare" them - THEY KNOW - they know who is in the 'highest' reading group even without being told).

I expect that good teachers can handle a natural tendancy toward differing abilities - a bell curve. NATURAL - not created because everyone wants their child to be the oldest, most mature, most socially advanced, most academic. This skews the natural part of it. I'm not a fan of a teacher teaching first grade AND Kindergarten at the same time which is what redshirting in some areas is causing. Even if he/she is the best teacher in the world - I think he/she could be a BETTER teacher if they are given a classroom with natural (not age based) differences.

Excuse me, but since when "should" a child be in any grade? A child should be in the grade that he or she is ready for. You make the assumption that an older child will be academically ahead of a younger child. This simply isn't so. A child who turns 6 early in the kindergarten year may not be any more advanced or ready for reading than a child who turns 5 early in the school year. Kids are individuals, and readiness for school really has very little to do with chronological age.

 

[Schmeck]

(West, Meek, & Hurst, 2000). (Br...ears. Anything done in the past year or two?

 

[Leajess99]

Hmm...guilty conscience I guess....not sure why you thought I was calling you one of "those"parents. Guess it's true that "they" know who they are.

As a teacher I can promise you that class disruptions are not unique to red shirted kids...thats absolutely laughable.

I don't have a guilty conscience at all but when YOU directed your comments at those of us that have issues with kids being redshirted than yes, I will respond. Again, I am so thankful you are not a teacher in our district but then again at my youngest dd's school you would be gone quick. They are well equipped to teach the young kids and aren't against having kids start school on time. I never said it was unique to redshirted kids but when the majority to all of the kids in my daughter's class last year that were disruptive (with the exception of the 2 children with special needs) were the redshirted children, than yes it is a big problem. Even the children with special needs were not near as disruptive as the redshirted children who needed 1st grade work and were bored.