Genie+ won't allow re-rides?

[Lewisc]

Yep WDW should provide unlimited LL for their Deluxe guests as well.

Disney has too many hotel rooms for that to work. Universal has frozen the hotel express pass. New hotels don't get that perk, even Sapphire Falls which is otherwise equivalent to Royal Pacific. A new park Volcano Bay doesn't offer express pass to hotel guests.

DISNEY offers evening extra hours to deluxe guests

 

[mom2rtk]

Disney has too many hotel rooms for that to work. Universal has frozen the hotel express pass. New hotels don't get that perk, even Sapphire Falls which is otherwise equivalent to Royal Pacific. A new park Volcano Bay doesn't offer express pass to hotel guests.

DISNEY offers evening extra hours to deluxe guests

But Disney offers next to nothing to their moderate hotel guests, which costs about the same as the hotels at Universal that get free unlimited Express Pass.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

But Disney offers next to nothing to their moderate hotel guests, which costs about the same as the hotels at Universal that get free unlimited Express Pass.

Im sure someone will come in here with that inside the bubble talking point to justify their purchase

 

[Lewisc]

But Disney offers next to nothing to their moderate hotel guests, which costs about the same as the hotels at Universal that get free unlimited Express Pass.

The 3 original Universal hotels only cost the same as Disney moderates when you can get a good discount. Today you can get deep discounts often but not always. Book at a peak time, short notice...and you'll pay $600-$700 sometimes more. Check pricing on a 2 night weekend sale during HHN. Check less then a month in advance. If you have time to check rates and are flexible you can get a Universal Hotel at similar pricing to a Disney moderate.

Im sure someone will come in here with that inside the bubble talking point to justify their purchase

Disney has gotten rid of many of the onsite perks. Some people are willing to pay $$$. The major, remaining, advantage to onsite is transportation. Guests who can't drive, or would prefer not to drive, gain a lot staying on property.

Even then you can sometimes get great rates at Swan and Dolphin. Last month, a trip I cancelled, I was able to book the Dolphin (AP discount, including resort fee) for within a dollar of what Disney wanted to charge me for POP. I wasn't going to be using DME.

Disney will only bend if bookings are really bad. Not sure if Disney will discount or add back some extras.

 

[jade1]

But Disney offers next to nothing to their moderate hotel guests, which costs about the same as the hotels at Universal that get free unlimited Express Pass.

Agreed. I recommend not making that selection.

 

[Liquidice]

Guests who pay the extra fees at least. I theorize this will make the standby lines even longer.

The standby lines might have more people being "served" through them - but theoretically they should move faster.

Consider that with FP+ the average Fastpass to Standby ratio was 6:1 (some estimates put it even higher than that). Meaning for every 6 guests riding on the Fastpass line, only 1 person got to ride on Standby. With less people using the Lightning Lanes (because it costs money and because you can only ride once per ride per day) - the standby lines should move a lot faster. Maybe not as fast as they're moving today because right now there is hardly anyone in the Lightning Lane, but I expect standby lines will move more consistently and with a shorter overall wait time due to the reduced usage of the Lightning Lane.

 

[Disneylover99]

The standby lines might have more people being "served" through them - but theoretically they should move faster.

Consider that with FP+ the average Fastpass to Standby ratio was 6:1 (some estimates put it even higher than that). Meaning for every 6 guests riding on the Fastpass line, only 1 person got to ride on Standby. With less people using the Lightning Lanes (because it costs money and because you can only ride once per ride per day) - the standby lines should move a lot faster. Maybe not as fast as they're moving today because right now there is hardly anyone in the Lightning Lane, but I expect standby lines will move more consistently and with a shorter overall wait time due to the reduced usage of the Lightning Lane.

I don’t know. Yes, fewer people will be using Lightening Lane in comparison to fast pass. But since people are now paying for this service, I expect they’ll want to move these lines at lightening speed, so people will be satisfied/happy with their purchase and encouraged to continue to buy. I think line ratios will heavily favour Lightening Lane, making standbye waits similar if not longer than the fp days.

 

[PepperjackDragon]

I don’t know. Yes, fewer people will be using Lightening Lane in comparison to fast pass. But since people are now paying for this service, I expect they’ll want to move these lines at lightening speed, so people will be satisfied/happy with their purchase and encouraged to continue to buy. I think line ratios will heavily favour Lightening Lane, making standbye waits similar if not longer than the fp days.

But this assumes that Disney wants you to get the same quality of service with lightning lane now as you used to. In reality we see that Disney is lowering the benefits of every service while also increasing the cost. Thus, it follows suit that they will now charge for FP while also lowering the quality of the fast pass.

Honestly, I think one major component we are all missing in this conversation is that the Park makes NO ADDITIONAL money from guests if they are in line. Therefore it is in their best interest to try to keep guest out of lines as much as possible, to free them up to purchase food/drinks/merchandise. I suspect this is the true motivation behind the reride limitation, and means that they likely want to find a nice balance where customers can spend that money up front and get a faster experience, but non paying customers still move through fast enough that they have time to spend in the parks.

Honestly, I suspect that this was the rationale behind providing free FP to begin with. They were probably assuming that guests would focus on rides that they could get fast passes for, and be less inclined to stand in a long line without one-presumably staying a few extra days and riding those rides on day 2 or 3, and just shopping/eating in the park with the additional free time. Ultimately, no one actually knows if they will make more money via Genie+, which is going to be real deciding factor in how they develop this service in the years ahead.

It is no doubt way more complicated than we are thinking about it. As new rides are built the park can handle more guests, but each guest also needs additional time in line to ride the rides, which runs the risk of lowering overall profits. Probably much more than I am even aware of, but definitely not as simple as saying "lets make money on fast passes."

 

[mom2rtk]

The 3 original Universal hotels only cost the same as Disney moderates when you can get a good discount. Today you can get deep discounts often but not always. Book at a peak time, short notice...and you'll pay $600-$700 sometimes more. Check pricing on a 2 night weekend sale during HHN. Check less then a month in advance. If you have time to check rates and are flexible you can get a Universal Hotel at similar pricing to a Disney moderate.


Disney has gotten rid of many of the onsite perks. Some people are willing to pay $$$. The major, remaining, advantage to onsite is transportation. Guests who can't drive, or would prefer not to drive, gain a lot staying on property.

Even then you can sometimes get great rates at Swan and Dolphin. Last month, a trip I cancelled, I was able to book the Dolphin (AP discount, including resort fee) for within a dollar of what Disney wanted to charge me for POP. I wasn't going to be using DME.

Disney will only bend if bookings are really bad. Not sure if Disney will discount or add back some extras.

And what is the price at Disney on peak weeks? How much is it to upgrade to an AP at USO and use those discount rates? How much is it at Disney? The truth is those hotels are a lot closer in pricing to a Disney moderate than a deluxe these days. Have you taken a look at some of the Pop Century and AoA rates lately? Some of those are getting closer to USO deluxe rates than I like.

 

[mom2rtk]

I don’t know. Yes, fewer people will be using Lightening Lane in comparison to fast pass. But since people are now paying for this service, I expect they’ll want to move these lines at lightening speed, so people will be satisfied/happy with their purchase and encouraged to continue to buy. I think line ratios will heavily favour Lightening Lane, making standbye waits similar if not longer than the fp days.

I think it will absolutely move at lightning speed to start. But like all things Disney, that will degrade over time and I suspect much snickering and eye rolling at their choice of the term "lightning" for that option.

 

[Disneylover99]

I think it will absolutely move at lightning speed to start. But like all things Disney, that will degrade over time and I suspect much snickering and eye rolling at their choice of the term "lightning" for that option.

Maybe they’ll change the name to cruising or meandering lane in a year or 2. Lol.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

Actually it sort of makes sense to me. We are afternoon night people and would use the Genie + more likely at night or late afternoon. If I paid for the G+ and could not ride the rides I wanted I would be really upset....I would be demanding my money back. We do not do rope drop anymore. I was wondering how genie plus would work for my family and this my sense to me.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

But Disney offers next to nothing to their moderate hotel guests, which costs about the same as the hotels at Universal that get free unlimited Express Pass.

Idk...I looked at universal Lowe's recently...it was expensive...more than disney moderates. Many times you can find disney moderates ( even deluxe) on Priceline.

 

[Brett Wyman]

The standby lines might have more people being "served" through them - but theoretically they should move faster.

Consider that with FP+ the average Fastpass to Standby ratio was 6:1 (some estimates put it even higher than that). Meaning for every 6 guests riding on the Fastpass line, only 1 person got to ride on Standby. With less people using the Lightning Lanes (because it costs money and because you can only ride once per ride per day) - the standby lines should move a lot faster. Maybe not as fast as they're moving today because right now there is hardly anyone in the Lightning Lane, but I expect standby lines will move more consistently and with a shorter overall wait time due to the reduced usage of the Lightning Lane.

They may load faster for sure as the dreaded "pause for throngs of FP+ folks to pass you" issue should be a thing of the past. But the standby lines will most likely now be much longer, too. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Disneylover99]

But this assumes that Disney wants you to get the same quality of service with lightning lane now as you used to. In reality we see that Disney is lowering the benefits of every service while also increasing the cost. Thus, it follows suit that they will now charge for FP while also lowering the quality of the fast pass.

Honestly, I think one major component we are all missing in this conversation is that the Park makes NO ADDITIONAL money from guests if they are in line. Therefore it is in their best interest to try to keep guest out of lines as much as possible, to free them up to purchase food/drinks/merchandise. I suspect this is the true motivation behind the reride limitation, and means that they likely want to find a nice balance where customers can spend that money up front and get a faster experience, but non paying customers still move through fast enough that they have time to spend in the parks.

Honestly, I suspect that this was the rationale behind providing free FP to begin with. They were probably assuming that guests would focus on rides that they could get fast passes for, and be less inclined to stand in a long line without one-presumably staying a few extra days and riding those rides on day 2 or 3, and just shopping/eating in the park with the additional free time. Ultimately, no one actually knows if they will make more money via Genie+, which is going to be real deciding factor in how they develop this service in the years ahead.

It is no doubt way more complicated than we are thinking about it. As new rides are built the park can handle more guests, but each guest also needs additional time in line to ride the rides, which runs the risk of lowering overall profits. Probably much more than I am even aware of, but definitely not as simple as saying "lets make money on fast passes."

Keeping people out of ride lines never really worked for their bottom line. People just used more and more fast passes to ride rides. This will be more of the same.

I don’t really think their goal is to keep people out of ride lines anymore. Ride lines are inevitable. With the ease of mobile ordering they've already got people hooked into eating at the parks anyways. Ride lines now give people a chance to set up mobile ordering or order merchandise online.

So I think it might be as simple as saying, “let’s make money on fast passes.”
They changed the name, added some new rules, charged a fee and I expect they’ll make a ton of quick and easy money.

 

[mom2rtk]

So I think it might be as simple as saying, “let’s make money on fast passes.”
They changed the name, added some new rules, charged a fee and I expect they’ll make a ton of quick and easy money.

100% this.

Sometimes the simplest explanation really is the right one.

 

[carlosalonsor]

I'll reserve judgment until I see everything in action. FP+ wasn't the greatest when it debuted. (if you park hopped, you couldn't get a FP from the app, you had to go to the kiosks or something like that). And if I remember the FPs were pre-selected (or pre-recommended) and modifying them was a pain in the butt.

When FP+ started it was 3 and that was it. You weren't able to get more at all. Then after a bit you could only get more from the kiosk (even if it was in the same park). Then they added the option to your phone. Many people (not everybody of course) hated FP+ at first, too.

Yes, but FP+ was free

 

[mom2rtk]

Yes, but FP+ was free

Huge difference. When it’s a paid service, expectations go up exponentially.

 

[Lewisc]

But Disney offers next to nothing to their moderate hotel guests, which costs about the same as the hotels at Universal that get free unlimited Express Pass.

I've stayed at PBH twice this year. I was able to book great AP rates BUT I checked a close in weekend. October 23-25 The 3 original hotels cost $442/night $508 and $608. That's not about the same as a Disney moderate.

An average person reading your claim might not realize you're not making an apples to apples comparison. You're assuming a guest is going book when deeply discounted rates are available for their dates. An average person booking may not even consider the advantages of an AP. Might not realize parts of the year longer stays result in dramatically lower rates. Drop a day from a hotel reservation and the entire reservation has to be repriced at current rates. You can't just drop a night. If AP rates aren't available for the dates you want to keep you'll lose your AP discount. I don't think that's well known

 

[tinkerhon]

Huge difference. When it’s a paid service, expectations go up exponentially.

Exactly--- Free and ****ty is not that bad, and to be expected in most cases---- not free and confusing as all heck=. not good.