Flocks of Lawyers Circling WDW ???

[Westcoastwild]

I guess I don't see the point of this.

Not everyone can ride every ride. I have severe motion sickness and I can't ride pretty much all VR except soaring. So I can't ride that new ride. Bummer? Sure. But I'm not angry at the designers.

Disney really does go out of their way to be accessible and at least the transfer option is there

 

[umichigan10]

Everything usually starts out bigger then is reigned in. DHS plans were bigger, DCA plans were bigger, etc.

True, I just feel like the boat ride and also the cuts to the slinkie coaster are so modest it really seems unnecessary to cut

 

[danikoski]

I was in the camp of why would Disney not make the boat ride wheel chair accessible? But then I remembered, the rides are still in preview. I wouldn't put it past Disney to have a wheelchair accessible boat, however, based on the size of the boat, I doubt it'll be able to hold some of the more involved 300-500 lbs wheelchairs. The accessible boat just may not be ready yet, or they are waiting to see on ride timing and function. These are brand new rides after all. And they absolutely have had issues with weight and boats on other Disney rides, so it may be a wait and see.

For FoP, they've made that one pretty much as accessible as possible for people in wheelchairs, while still maintaining ride experience, including a transfer wheelchair. Granted, there is still the issue of certain size people not being able to ride, but they've been tweaking that during previews as well. So once again, keep in mind, these are new rides. Things can be adjusted and changed over time.

 

[JaxDad]

I don't think they could have a bigger boat for this ride. These boats make some tight turns which work best with the smaller boat. Now I do agree they probably could have had a wheelchair accessible boat but I think size of the boats is the issue they had.

The original poster's issue is not that they should renovate the ride NOW to accommodate wheelchairs. The issue is that they should have planned and designed it FROM THE START to be wheelchair accessible. The turns and at least some boats would then be different than they are now. I don't plan and design facilities and try to jam on accessible features at the end. They are part to the very first set of plans and specs. Some posters are saying Disney should have planned this ride from the start to be accessible. I think their point is that is was possible, and it would meet the accommodating values we all expect from Disney, AND it is an important part of the film, so why not? Can all rides be accessible? I don't know, but perhaps they should have made the effort with this one.

 

[HopperFan]

The original poster's issue is not that they should renovate the ride NOW to accommodate wheelchairs. The issue is that they should have planned and designed it FROM THE START to be wheelchair accessible. The turns and at least some boats would then be different than they are now. I don't plan and design facilities and try to jam on accessible features at the end. They are part to the very first set of plans and specs. Some posters are saying Disney should have planned this ride from the start to be accessible. I think their point is that is was possible, and it would meet the accommodating values we all expect from Disney, AND it is an important part of the film, so why not? Can all rides be accessible? I don't know, but perhaps they should have made the effort with this one.

^THIS. OP is a long time CM and now experiencing being in a wheelchair. They are passionate about subject now that they are having to depend on a chair for now. There is no reason for his opinion (a valid one) be diminished as Disney dropped a ball on this one, particularly considering the main character in the movie. Seriously, if you are designing a land about a movie, a major story line in the movie should have been part of planning.

Yes, Joe R is an artist, yes Joe R created a beautiful park with AK, yes I have great respect for his work and follow his social because he is so interesting. For creativity, AK is my favorite. BUT I'm not blinded by his flaws .......... he's like many artists, difficult to manage, difficult to stay in budgets and time frames and sometimes gets so caught up in the beauty of his work he forgets to come back to earth to see what is needed at the guests level. ROL is a perfect example of vision and reality being two different things. Designed beyond Disney's capability. Na'vi River, beautiful and stunning but no purpose ... completely lost what the end result would be. Has the potential, but they stopped with the beauty. Bottom line AK is Joe's baby from start to finish. He's there all the time, he talks about it non-stop and he wants all the applause and acknowledgements .... that means the buck stops with him on the creativity and design as well.

Having been on both rides there is no reason a WC boat and WC seating on FoP could not have been incorporated. Yes the boats are small but it could have been done. Build a fold out ramp and have them enter straight into back of boat moving forward. One or two could have fit with them with as single seats, they entering like normal. FoP, you don't even have to hold on. They could have built an enclosed box at the end of one theater room that a chair could enter, brakes set, be strapped down and be perfectly fine. Only one in the entire ride would make it an option for those who truly can not exit their chair. Those who can transfer would still use the regular seating.

Pandora focused on the beauty of the movie, but forgot some of the story. And Disney opted to exclude those guests from a brand new ride, that is sad.

 

[Juliet0778]

I guess I don't see the point of this.

Not everyone can ride every ride. I have severe motion sickness and I can't ride pretty much all VR except soaring. So I can't ride that new ride. Bummer? Sure. But I'm not angry at the designers.

Disney really does go out of their way to be accessible and at least the transfer option is there

Ditto. I do worry that the trend seems to be turning toward more virtual reality type stuff that this motion sick girl can't do and it's certainly frustrating, but it is what it is. It's not their fault I have issues!

 

[HopperFan]

I guess I don't see the point of this.

Not everyone can ride every ride. I have severe motion sickness and I can't ride pretty much all VR except soaring. So I can't ride that new ride. Bummer? Sure. But I'm not angry at the designers.

Disney really does go out of their way to be accessible and at least the transfer option is there

The point here is that this movie that this land was built about features a main character in a wheelchair. Of all places at Disney, this is where the effort should have been made. And since there are few rides at Disney that completely chair bound folks can ride in ... of all rides, a slow boat, it should have been made accessible.

No one is expecting them to modify roller coasters or other rides that could be dangerous .... but these two truly could have been modified easily, and rather than say why, I say why not?

Ditto. I do worry that the trend seems to be turning toward more virtual reality type stuff that this motion sick girl can't do and it's certainly frustrating, but it is what it is. It's not their fault I have issues!

Well, if Universal is any indication this is where we are going, it's cheap. NOW don't rule out FoP. I have vertigo, get dizzy, have several rides I won't go on or at some points close my eyes ........... rode FoP no problem. First ride I even looked behind me alot, looked at the guests on other levels next to us, looked at my DS since I was concerned about him on it ............. never once felt queasy.

 

[rteetz]

The original poster's issue is not that they should renovate the ride NOW to accommodate wheelchairs. The issue is that they should have planned and designed it FROM THE START to be wheelchair accessible. The turns and at least some boats would then be different than they are now. I don't plan and design facilities and try to jam on accessible features at the end. They are part to the very first set of plans and specs. Some posters are saying Disney should have planned this ride from the start to be accessible. I think their point is that is was possible, and it would meet the accommodating values we all expect from Disney, AND it is an important part of the film, so why not? Can all rides be accessible? I don't know, but perhaps they should have made the effort with this one.

I don't disagree but this boat ride was originally supposed to be longer. The boats are also small. My guess is they did look into it but found it wasn't going to work out. We don't know officially why they didn't make this ride accessible. There could be a completely different reason we aren't even discussing. I find it hard to believe they didn't think about accessibility.

 

[rteetz]

^THIS. OP is a long time CM and now experiencing being in a wheelchair. They are passionate about subject now that they are having to depend on a chair for now. There is no reason for his opinion (a valid one) be diminished as Disney dropped a ball on this one, particularly considering the main character in the movie. Seriously, if you are designing a land about a movie, a major story line in the movie should have been part of planning.

Yes, Joe R is an artist, yes Joe R created a beautiful park with AK, yes I have great respect for his work and follow his social because he is so interesting. For creativity, AK is my favorite. BUT I'm not blinded by his flaws .......... he's like many artists, difficult to manage, difficult to stay in budgets and time frames and sometimes gets so caught up in the beauty of his work he forgets to come back to earth to see what is needed at the guests level. ROL is a perfect example of vision and reality being two different things. Designed beyond Disney's capability. Na'vi River, beautiful and stunning but no purpose ... completely lost what the end result would be. Has the potential, but they stopped with the beauty. Bottom line AK is Joe's baby from start to finish. He's there all the time, he talks about it non-stop and he wants all the applause and acknowledgements .... that means the buck stops with him on the creativity and design as well.

Having been on both rides there is no reason a WC boat and WC seating on FoP could not have been incorporated. Yes the boats are small but it could have been done. Build a fold out ramp and have them enter straight into back of boat moving forward. One or two could have fit with them with as single seats, they entering like normal. FoP, you don't even have to hold on. They could have built an enclosed box at the end of one theater room that a chair could enter, brakes set, be strapped down and be perfectly fine. Only one in the entire ride would make it an option for those who truly can not exit their chair. Those who can transfer would still use the regular seating.

Pandora focused on the beauty of the movie, but forgot some of the story. And Disney opted to exclude those guests from a brand new ride, that is sad.

Disney has had issues with budgets since the beginning. Disneyland was over budget. Epcot had budget issues, DCA had things cut, AK didn't open with everything planned, etc. it's not just Joe it's part of Imagineering and Disney unfortunately.

I'm not opposed or saying there shouldn't be wheelchair accessibility on these rides however there isn't and there isn't a whole lot we can do about it right now. Is it unfortunate yes, is it against the law no.

Why doesn't the boat ride have a wheelchair boat? We don't know for sure. My best guess is boat size. Due to the nature and theme of the ride the boats are small. A wheelchair boat just might not have been feasible in this situation.

 

[rteetz]

The point here is that this movie that this land was built about features a main character in a wheelchair. Of all places at Disney, this is where the effort should have been made. And since there are few rides at Disney that completely chair bound folks can ride in ... of all rides, a slow boat, it should have been made accessible.

No one is expecting them to modify roller coasters or other rides that could be dangerous .... but these two truly could have been modified easily, and rather than say why, I say why not?



Well, if Universal is any indication this is where we are going, it's cheap. NOW don't rule out FoP. I have vertigo, get dizzy, have several rides I won't go on or at some points close my eyes ........... rode FoP no problem. First ride I even looked behind me alot, looked at the guests on other levels next to us, looked at my DS since I was concerned about him on it ............. never once felt queasy.

This land is not based on the first movie. You don't see evidence of the movie's story within this land. The land is set years after the yet to be release sequels. Who knows if the guy in the wheelchair is even a big focus in the future movies.

 

[piccolopat]

I agree that whenever reasonably possible, Disney should make it as easy as possible for disabled guests to enjoy what everyone else takes for granted. For example, I watched a video of the new banshee ride on You Tube a few days ago. While I can understand how the seating will give you an immersive experience, I enjoyed the film just sitting on my couch. Perhaps Disney should consider having one section for wheelchairs and adding stationary seating for anyone unable to sit in the ride seating, like those with back issues or those that are just too big (though I think Disney can address that with alternate seating). Do they have to? Of course not. Should they? In my view, yes.

 

[piccolopat]

Disney has had issues with budgets since the beginning. Disneyland was over budget. Epcot had budget issues, DCA had things cut, AK didn't open with everything planned, etc. it's not just Joe it's part of Imagineering and Disney unfortunately.

I'm not opposed or saying there shouldn't be wheelchair accessibility on these rides however there isn't and there isn't a whole lot we can do about it right now. Is it unfortunate yes, is it against the law no.

Why doesn't the boat ride have a wheelchair boat? We don't know for sure. My best guess is boat size. Due to the nature and theme of the ride the boats are small. A wheelchair boat just might not have been feasible in this situation.

For the boat, they could have considered alternating the small boats with a traditional "long boat". It could have fit the theming if they just used a little imagination.

 

[rteetz]

For the boat, they could have considered alternating the small boats with a traditional "long boat". It could have fit the theming if they just used a little imagination.

I'm not sure though. This ride has some right turns that a longer boat might not have been able to make.

 

[marcyleecorgan]

*defends self against pelting fruit* Okay, yes, I know the protagonist of Avatar is in a wheelchair, but that's not really a plot point. The plot point is the "LINKING" with the Na'vi creatures. You have to link because humans can't breathe the atmosphere on Pandora. And that physical disconnect is part of the challenge of the movie's conflict - the only way to communicate with the planet and its living beings is to form this Link-connection. The character is able to create that bridge of communication in a very spiritual way, but I really don't see the "mobility challenge" as part of the plot moving forward. Pretty much every human on Pandora is subject to wearing an oxygen mask and being vastly under-sized to the wildlife. Humans don't have the Linkable braid-hair thing going on. So in that sense, ALL the humans have a disability, from Na'vi perspective... we saw that in the movie too. And they don't overcome that with anything besides the Link and a cloned Avatar with a psychological profile match.

Personally I was shocked to see Mech Warrior Suits running around in Pandora, but the scientists have to Link in? Why isn't the wheelchair-bound dude in a Mech Suit? That would have made much more sense, mobility-wise. But the Link, that's the plot point, that's what is dragging us through the 2-hour movie...

 

[piccolopat]

I'm not sure though. This ride has some right turns that a longer boat might not have been able to make.

That may be the case however if they planned for some longer boats to accommodate the disabled, perhaps the right turns could have been adjusted. Even adding a roll on area for one wheelchair every few boats, perhaps removing one of the rows on those to minimize the length, should have been considered. I think that making as many things disability accessible as possible is something everyone should support because while we may not be disabled today, there is no guarantee things won't change in the future.

 

[rteetz]

That may be the case however if they planned for some longer boats to accommodate the disabled, perhaps the right turns could have been adjusted. Even adding a roll on area for one wheelchair every few boats, perhaps removing one of the rows on those to minimize the length, should have been considered. I think that making as many things disability accessible as possible is something everyone should support because while we may not be disabled today, there is no guarantee things won't change in the future.

I agree but at this point there isn't much we can do about it. The ride is built and staying as is.

 

[jade1]

I was in the camp of why would Disney not make the boat ride wheel chair accessible? But then I remembered, the rides are still in preview. I wouldn't put it past Disney to have a wheelchair accessible boat, however, based on the size of the boat, I doubt it'll be able to hold some of the more involved 300-500 lbs wheelchairs. The accessible boat just may not be ready yet, or they are waiting to see on ride timing and function. These are brand new rides after all. And they absolutely have had issues with weight and boats on other Disney rides, so it may be a wait and see.

For FoP, they've made that one pretty much as accessible as possible for people in wheelchairs, while still maintaining ride experience, including a transfer wheelchair. Granted, there is still the issue of certain size people not being able to ride, but they've been tweaking that during previews as well. So once again, keep in mind, these are new rides. Things can be adjusted and changed over time.

Why doesn't the boat ride have a wheelchair boat? We don't know for sure. My best guess is boat size. Due to the nature and theme of the ride the boats are small. A wheelchair boat just might not have been feasible in this situation.

Could they roll out a wheelchair boat when it opens? Like Safari-every 4th might allow a chair? Or are they indeed way too small to have a version.

 

[rteetz]

Could they roll out a wheelchair boat when it opens? Like Safari-every 4th might allow a chair? Or are they indeed way too small to have a version.

We don't know the official reasoning. I doubt they have a wheelchair boat for official opening.

 

[tjkraz]

Are we really so blinded by our armchair imagineer status that we're going to sit here and say "why didn't Disney consider this....why didn't Disney consider that"? Rest assured, every single design suggestion posted here was thoroughly vetted, debated, charted, focus-grouped and otherwise analyzed before things were set in stone.

I'm not trying to be insensitive but every single move to make the attractions more accessible would likely have resulted in a lesser experience for all. When you start changing queue setups, changing ride vehicles, reducing motion, eliminating effects...the entire experience suffers. Ultimately designers have to choose the proper balance between high quality experience and guest accessibility.

As for budgeting, everything has its limits. Whether Disney is budgeting for the next Star Wars movie, negotiating contracts for a TV sitcom cast or building a new theme park attraction, at some point you are forced to say "we're going to spend ____ and no more!"

 

[piccolopat]

...I'm not trying to be insensitive but every single move to make the attractions more accessible would likely have resulted in a lesser experience for all. When you start changing queue setups, changing ride vehicles, reducing motion, eliminating effects...the entire experience suffers. Ultimately designers have to choose the proper balance between high quality experience and guest accessibility...

Regarding the part of your comment that I have bolded, are you saying that people in general should not have to give up a even a small part of an experience in order to allow the disabled to have some access? How would you even know if it would be a lesser experience? Perhaps the experience would have just been different.